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[Oppo]

To say that calories in vs calories out doesn't matter is some disingenuous ass shit. It's true that a calorie, may not necessarily be a calorie otherwise we wouldn't have plateaus, but there are so many different variables to the human body that you can't possibly expect for fat loss to be so linear.

I think the thread title has some merit, but is ultimately misleading because objectively one does get fat for eating too much and exercising too little. exercising/total daily energy expenditure=calories out foods=calories in. Fat loss does ultimately come down to this, you just can't expect it to be so linear or to be the exact same from person to person.

This is a good post.

Everybody seems to cobble together their own system for eating, and the beliefs they attach to the where's and why's of it, and I'm actually surprised how heated the discussion can get.

For my part, I essentially try to watch my portion intake, in terms of calories, as well as eating things that are as close to their "normal "state as possible. The more processed, the worse it is. Refined sugar is processed. Bread is technically processed as it was rendered from flour, etc. Eat things that are as close as possible to their state when it was growing in the ground, or walking around on top. Sometimes, cook those things, and combine them in various ways. That's it.

Calories are a unit of energy, not specifically food, after all.

 

[yn-neko hates a cat]

For a lot of people, it is.

People viewed pasta dishes as a "healthy food" in the United States once fat got demonized.

I can attest to this. I don't buy frozen dinners but going down the freezer sections of supermarkets, you generally see two are three major "healthy" frozen food brands covering most of the section and about 90% of their meal option contain some form of pasta.

 

[Brera]

I have the idea to do a crash diet for a week, then recover, then use a normal diet with working out. Good idea?

There are a couple of variations of low carb diets when working out. You can carb cycle and have 2 low carb days and a high carb day when you work out or do what I try and do which is eat normally on weekends but I'm trying to stop that as it triggers cravings and I mean CRAVINGS as in hardcore chocolate, ice cream, biscuits, carbs OD!

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I can attest to this. I don't buy frozen dinners but going down the freezer sections of supermarkets, you generally see two are three major "healthy" frozen food brands covering most of the section and about 90% of their meal option contain some form of pasta.

After all, pasta is low in fat! And remember, fat makes you fat. Makes sense, right?

...except that it's total bullshit

 

[show me your skeleton]

can't unsee/hear owen wilson.

 

[IceCold]

I can attest to this. I don't buy frozen dinners but going down the freezer sections of supermarkets, you generally see two are three major "healthy" frozen food brands covering most of the section and about 90% of their meal option contain some form of pasta.

Pasta is also cheap as hell. Most probably why some of the most common restaurants you'll see are Italian restaurant. You don't see a lot of people open French restaurants.

 

[Brera]

For the people that eat <20g of carbs, do you guys count the carbs from fruits and vegetables?

General rule is green veggies = good, anything else = bad eg carrots.

Low carb fruit like Strawberries are a godsend on 20g diets. I'm generally more relaxed about it now but try not to go overboard and make sure I don't go over 40-50g of carbs.

 

[yn-neko hates a cat]

There are a couple of variations of low carb diets when working out. You can carb cycle and have 2 low carb days and a high carb day when you work out or do what I try and do which is eat normally on weekends but I'm trying to stop that as it triggers cravings and I mean CRAVINGS as in hardcore chocolate, ice cream, biscuits, carbs OD!

The cravings for carbs are insane. Rice is perhaps the hardest carb for me to suppress. It's what I grew up eating, in various forms, so its been a hard one. Another hard one that I've been having more success with is bread and pasta. I rarely even buy bread anymore and can sometimes go for weeks without having any. Pasta is a weird one though. I feel like I go longer without having it and I don't remember buying any but somehow, every few months, I feel like I can get a little and end up getting it in copious amounts that takes a couple of weeks to finish.

Breads and pasta don't seem to be something that once you stop eating for a while, it makes your body sick to take in like animal fat does to most vegetarians and I wonder why that is.

 

[Parch]

Heavy is also a relative term. 400 lb squats may be considered heavy for me now, when I'm 50, 250 may be considered heavy.

This is exactly what I'm going through. It's not just a simple math adjustment. Even light lifting every other day is difficult, so I needed to dramatically adjust the diet.

My doctor insists that a lifetime of heavy resistance training is why my back and knees are wrecked. That's the consequences for all those heavy sets. I still lift and train, but the intensity levels just are not possible anymore.

It's damn hard to just change the lifestyle after a lifetime of enjoying bread and pasta. Lo-carb sucks, but I've settled for a significant reduction in sugars and those bad carbs.
If you really want to have a lifetime of a serious lo-carb lifestyle, it's much better to develop the proper eating habits at a younger age and not just start it when it's absolutely necessary.

 

[Mumei]

So, can someone who is an advocate of the (apparent) "calories don't matter" position explain why this works? I don't read about these things or have any experience dieting, but it just sounds counterintuitive to say that calories simply don't matter. I could understand someone saying that calories aren't the only thing that matters, but the dismissal of its relevance has just always struck me as odd.

So, can someone educate me?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

So, can someone who is an advocate of the (apparent) "calories don't matter" position explain why this works? I don't read about these things or have any experience dieting, but it just sounds counterintuitive to say that calories simply don't matter. I could understand someone saying that calories aren't the only thing that matters, but the dismissal of its relevance has just always struck me as odd.

So, can someone educate me?

First of all, explain your understanding of why it does matter.

What argument convinced you that "too much" energy from food turns into adipose tissue?

 

[xenist]

............Please tell me you are not at 6 foot 1 inch and 102 pounds.

Hah no. 202. Messed up the conversion to your stupid system.

 

[gwarm01]

I just eat a diet full of fruits, vegetables, and non-fried meats. When I go out I will eat whatever I want, just so long as my usual day-to-day stays reasonable. I'm still quite thin and am happy with my diet. I still eat rice, sandwiches, and drink beer. I NEED GRAINS FOR MY DELICIOUS BEER.

 

[CornBurrito]

Get a foreman grill and prepare meals ahead of time? I have to leave for work at 7 in the morning and take public transportation to commute to and from work (San Jose to San Francisco), and I still have time to prepare and eat 3 meals a day... And work out multiple times per week. It just depends if you're willing to put in the effort.

Make a low carb wrap, prepare some type of meat and vegetable ahead of time (takes under 10 minutes with a foreman grill), cook your bacon and sausage in batch and heat them up through out the week for breakfast so you only have to cook the eggs. It's not that hard. I probably only spend 20-30 minutes cooking per day on average.

Yeah but you see, the guy asked for suggestions. You actually gave some. The other guy said "lol you won't be able to prepare quick meals."

 

[Wafflecakes]

So, can someone who is an advocate of the (apparent) "calories don't matter" position explain why this works? I don't read about these things or have any experience dieting, but it just sounds counterintuitive to say that calories simply don't matter. I could understand someone saying that calories aren't the only thing that matters, but the dismissal of its relevance has just always struck me as odd.

So, can someone educate me?

Essentially it is based on the way calories are measured.

The large calorie, kilogram calorie, dietary calorie, nutritionist's calorie or food calorie (symbol: Cal)[3] approximates the energy needed to increase the temperature of 1 kilogram of water by 1 °C. This is exactly 1,000 small calories or approximately 4.2 kilojoules.

So it is burned and the amount of energy released is how we determine how many calories a food has.

The argument against it is that the body is not a furnace and responds to different types of calories in different ways. They believe that the differences are significant and its actually the increased proportion of our diet coming from starches and sugars that are causing us to be obese. They also believe that eating certain types of calories causes chemical reactions/insulin spikes in the body that INCREASE hunger/cravings and leads you to eat even more. So if you limit your carb intake you can better control your hunger and lose weight naturally without "counting calories" because you won't want to eat more than your body needs.

Personally I think there is some truth to the idea....but I am not for throwing out calories all together.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

This is exactly what I'm going through. It's not just a simple math adjustment. Even light lifting every other day is difficult, so I needed to dramatically adjust the diet.

My doctor insists that a lifetime of heavy resistance training is why my back and knees are wrecked. That's the consequences for all those heavy sets. I still lift and train, but the intensity levels just are not possible anymore.

It's damn hard to just change the lifestyle after a lifetime of enjoying bread and pasta. Lo-carb sucks, but I've settled for a significant reduction in sugars and those bad carbs.
If you really want to have a lifetime of a serious lo-carb lifestyle, it's much better to develop the proper eating habits at a younger age and not just start it when it's absolutely necessary.

I see, yea there are definitely opportunity costs for having Godlike strengths when you're younger. In retrospect I shouldn't have said 'heavy' as that is seen as 3-5 or single rep ranges. Doing single rep squats heavy to the point of near failure may be great for your core, quads etc, but it comes at the cost of snapping your knees up something serious over a long period of time. I should have said moderate weight/higher reps. More about the time under tension, not necessarily knee buckling, blood vessel popping weight. And of course Age.

Also agreed on the 2nd point, definitely a better way of going about it. No need to treating eating as a chore to the point where you're miserable. Eating shouldn't be a job/hinder your mental wellness unless you're a competitive bodybuilder in my opinion.

 

[SeigO]

As someone who lost 45 pounds last year, while eating tons and tons of delicious fatty carbs I call bullshit. If you eat 1800 calories a day you're going to lose weight and there's nothing inefficient about it.

I don't even understand how people can claim that "carbs make them feel disgusting" that sounds like a gullible person buying into a placebo to me.... unless you have a gluten intolerance.

 

[CornBurrito]

General rule is green veggies = good, anything else = bad eg carrots.

Low carb fruit like Strawberries are a godsend on 20g diets. I'm generally more relaxed about it now but try not to go overboard and make sure I don't go over 40-50g of carbs.

Why are carrots bad?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Why are carrots bad?

They are starchy, so people who are very stringent about eliminating carb consumption avoid them.

I eat them, but I'm not militant about carb restriction. I'm on more of the paleo route that just eliminates most processed foods, sugar, and grains.

 

[gwarm01]

Why are carrots bad?

Once you get to the point where you consider carrots to be "bad" you are basically at the same level as a FF6 player who refuses to level up until the WoR in order to get the maximum benefit from high-end espers.

Carrots are fine and you should eat them if you like. They're a better choice than french fries.

 

[SolidusDave]

I enjoy my glucose-rich diet. Saves my body the effort of breaking stuff down to it as glucose is anyway the actual fuel used by our cells

My brain and fast muscles need all dat instant ATP.

Additional benefit: Sweets taste awesome because evolution imprinted in us that energy-rich food = good.

 

[yn-neko hates a cat]

They are starchy, so people who are very stringent about eliminating carb consumption avoid them.

I eat them, but I'm not militant about carb restriction. I'm on more of the paleo route that just eliminates most processed foods, sugar, and grains.

So I should be avoiding things like potato in a law-carb diet? And here I was under the impressions that all whole-foods outside of wheat and grains were on the good list.

This seems rather complex but I'm not qualified to say if it's a more natural way of eating or not. On one hand, I imagine that humans in a natural situation wouldn't have access to as many whole foods as we do in modern society. I don't know however if this is a descent argument for justifying the complexity of what to avoid from the natural food categories as a means of having a balanced diet. Many of us are gamers and I'm sure we understand the concept of min-maxing. There has to be simpler rules than you can't eat blue fruits on midnight when Venus and Earth are aligned and the mail man trips three times on the same block. As facetious as that sounds... I feel like we are approaching those levels here. Should it be this complex?

 

[CornBurrito]

Once you get to the point where you consider carrots to be "bad" you are basically at the same level as a FF6 player who refuses to level up until the WoR in order to get the maximum benefit from high-end espers.

Carrots are fine and you should eat them if you like. They're a better choice than french fries.

So basically, fruits/veggies/meat. If carbs, at least avoid processed grains.

 

[speedpop]

The low-carb diets always sound intense. I could never cut out rice. My body feels too weak when I do.

Though I can't remember the last time I had bread or pasta.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

So I should be avoiding things like potato in a law-carb diet? And here I was under the impressions that all whole-foods outside of wheat and grains were on the good list.

This seems rather complex but I'm not qualified to say if it's a more natural way of eating or not. On one hand, I imagine that humans in a natural situation wouldn't have access to as many whole foods as we do in modern society. I don't know however if this is a descent argument for justifying the complexity of what to avoid from the natural food categories as a means of having a balanced diet. Many of us are gamers and I'm sure we understand the concept of min-maxing. There has to be simpler rules than you can't eat blue fruits on midnight when Venus and Earth are aligned and the mail man trips three times on the same block. As facetious as that sounds... I feel like we are approaching those levels here. Should it be this complex?

Personally, I avoid most potatoes (especially in large amounts), but I will eat sweet potatoes fairly regularly.

In the end, it's all about finding what works for you. It's different depending on the person, so that's why you see so much information that may seem contradictory. Just jump in and start experimenting. If you want, start out with a ketosis diet (extremely low-carb) and add things on from there.

 

[strobogo]

Calories in-out matter hugely. I lost 20 pounds counting calories. While yes, 10 of those were eating healthier and some exercise, but I also lost weight still eating terribly, but keeping under 1700-2000 calories. I'm talking mostly straight up junk food and I still lost weight keeping under a calorie level.

I'm going to try to cut bread out, though. That's kind of hard to do in my family and Mid West in general. But I have a cousin that went vegetarian with no difficulties in diet choices, so I think I can do it once I get over missing precious bread. I think it is pretty obvious that you aren't going to lose weight and keep it off just by diet. You have to make lifestyle changes and stick to them.

 

[SugarDaddy]

Once you get to the point where you consider carrots to be "bad" you are basically at the same level as a FF6 player who refuses to level up until the WoR in order to get the maximum benefit from high-end espers.

Carrots are fine and you should eat them if you like. They're a better choice than french fries.

Best freakin' post in this entire thread, lol.

 

[Parch]

You're fighting society to stay healthy, from an early age. Baby food full of sugar. Fruit juice in the sippy cup. Cake and candy as the reward. Halloween, easter, christmas. Fructose in everything. It's sugar, sugar everywhere all your life.

White bread sandwiches for school lunch everyday. Then you've got a meat and potatoes father so green vegetables were rarely on the table. I never developed a taste for them. As far as I'm concerned, you can take those evil brussel sprouts and pop 'em up your butt. Wouldn't change the taste.

Then it's onto pizza and beer for most of my 20's. When you hit your 30's the metabolism slows down to a crawl. Fast food joints make the rat race easier. 40's and working out become more difficult. Damn, avoiding weight gain isn't getting any easier.

So for the last decade it's the struggle to quit carbs. No sugar, bread and pasta. Oh yeah, that's real easy after a lifetime of nothing but. I'm not taking all the blame for my eating habits. Society deserves some of the fault.

Be good to your kid. Get him on the green veggies early and away from the sugar addiction. Now that we know, break that generational habit of poor eating.

 

[MjFrancis]

We are fatter as a country because our country is feeding us a highly modified version of corn that has almost no protein left inside of it yet is packed with carbohydrates.

Sitting in front of a monitor does not make someone fat.

I'm glad we agree, because unless there's some sort of chocolate gumdrop monitor out there I haven't been privy to, monitors have no nutritional value.

 

[Brera]

So, can someone who is an advocate of the (apparent) "calories don't matter" position explain why this works? I don't read about these things or have any experience dieting, but it just sounds counterintuitive to say that calories simply don't matter. I could understand someone saying that calories aren't the only thing that matters, but the dismissal of its relevance has just always struck me as odd.

So, can someone educate me?

Here's my simple understanding but I may be wrong.

1. Normally carbs are primary source of energy. Fat gets stored.

2. Carbs are always getting replenished and used during exercise/life. The fat gets stored and acummulates thus you get fater.

So?

1. Cut the carbs out so the body doesn't have a primary source any more. Body switches to Ketosis. The process of burning fat as a primary energy source.

2. All your stored fat gets used up, any more fat coming in gets burned right away as primary energy! Thus your fat literally melts away!

 

[Devolution]

I hope the people eating a lot of "meat" are sticking with chicken and fish =/.

 

[Brera]

As someone who lost 45 pounds last year, while eating tons and tons of delicious fatty carbs I call bullshit. If you eat 1800 calories a day you're going to lose weight and there's nothing inefficient about it.

I don't even understand how people can claim that "carbs make them feel disgusting" that sounds like a gullible person buying into a placebo to me.... unless you have a gluten intolerance.

When I eat carby food, I do feel like shit afterwards. Bloated and fat.Half an hour later, I'm hungry and want more food!

With my high fat/protein diet, I never feel full and bloated and rarely feel hungry or starving, in fact I usually feel satisfied and have to force myself to eat to keep the fat/protein content up!

 

[Famassu]

I hate these idiots insisting you should add more fat into your diet. Hasn't it been made clear enough that excess fat blocks your arteries in the long run? It's healthier to eat some carbs (just cut down your consumption a bit and don't get a huge plateful of rice/potatoes/pasta with your lunch/dinner/whatever) and ordinary amounts of fat than to eat no/very little carbs and replace it all with more fat.

 

[Brera]

Once you get to the point where you consider carrots to be "bad" you are basically at the same level as a FF6 player who refuses to level up until the WoR in order to get the maximum benefit from high-end espers.

Carrots are fine and you should eat them if you like. They're a better choice than french fries.

I cheat every now and again and treat myself to an Apple (a green one).

 

[Devolution]

I hate these idiots insisting you should add more fat into your diet. Hasn't it been made clear enough that excess fat blocks your arteries in the long run? It's healthier to eat some carbs (just cut down your consumption a bit and don't get a huge plateful of rice/potatoes/pasta with your lunch/dinner/whatever) and ordinary amounts of fat than to eat no/very little carbs and replace it all with more fat.

I could understand a diet in more protein but the people who say "just eat more meat" are full of shit.

 

[Piecake]

I hate these idiots insisting you should add more fat into your diet. Hasn't it been made clear enough that excess fat blocks your arteries in the long run? It's healthier to eat some carbs (just cut down your consumption a bit and don't get a huge plateful of rice/potatoes/pasta with your lunch/dinner/whatever) and ordinary amounts of fat than to eat no/very little carbs and replace it all with more fat.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/high-fat-diet-healthy-safe/#axzz2DvkCipjl

&#8220;But Dean Ornish/my mom/Walter Willet/the AHA/my doctor said saturated fat will give you heart attacks.&#8221;

They all may say that, and sound pretty convincing as they say it, but the science says differently. I tend to listen to the science, rather than what I think the science is saying:

A 2011 study found that &#8220;reducing the intake of CHO with high glycaemic index is more effective in the prevention of CVD than reducing SAFA intake per se.&#8221;
From a 2010 study out of Japan, saturated fat intake &#8220;was inversely associated with mortality from total stroke.&#8221;
A 2010 meta-analysis found &#8220;that there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD.&#8221;
That looks pretty clear cut to me.

Response: &#8220;The most recent studies have concluded that saturated fat intake likely has no relation to heart disease, contrary to popular opinion.&#8221;

 

[Brera]

You're fighting society to stay healthy, from an early age. Baby food full of sugar. Fruit juice in the sippy cup. Cake and candy as the reward. Halloween, easter, christmas. Fructose in everything. It's sugar, sugar everywhere all your life.

White bread sandwiches for school lunch everyday. Then you've got a meat and potatoes father so green vegetables were rarely on the table. I never developed a taste for them. As far as I'm concerned, you can take those evil brussel sprouts and pop 'em up your butt. Wouldn't change the taste.

Then it's onto pizza and beer for most of my 20's. When you hit your 30's the metabolism slows down to a crawl. Fast food joints make the rat race easier. 40's and working out become more difficult. Damn, avoiding weight gain isn't getting any easier.

So for the last decade it's the struggle to quit carbs. No sugar, bread and pasta. Oh yeah, that's real easy after a lifetime of nothing but. I'm not taking all the blame for my eating habits. Society deserves some of the fault.

Be good to your kid. Get him on the green veggies early and away from the sugar addiction. Now that we know, break that generational habit of poor eating.

Exactly.

The only reasons all these foods are full of sugar is to get us addicted and to keep Kellogs and evil farmers in the megabuxx.

 

[Brera]

I hate these idiots insisting you should add more fat into your diet. Hasn't it been made clear enough that excess fat blocks your arteries in the long run? It's healthier to eat some carbs (just cut down your consumption a bit and don't get a huge plateful of rice/potatoes/pasta with your lunch/dinner/whatever) and ordinary amounts of fat than to eat no/very little carbs and replace it all with more fat.

Clinical studies have shown that cholestrol levels increase initially before reducing to carb diet levels.

The fat you take in gets used as energy...not stored!

 

[McLovin]

I always thought high fat, low carb diets were bad for your heart.

 

[Brera]

I hope the people eating a lot of "meat" are sticking with chicken and fish =/.

Steaks, Beef, Lamb, Chicken even doner kebab but need more fish and gonna increase my salmon intake this month.

 

[entremet]

I hate these idiots insisting you should add more fat into your diet. Hasn't it been made clear enough that excess fat blocks your arteries in the long run? It's healthier to eat some carbs (just cut down your consumption a bit and don't get a huge plateful of rice/potatoes/pasta with your lunch/dinner/whatever) and ordinary amounts of fat than to eat no/very little carbs and replace it all with more fat.

What's so bad about a fat? I never seen anything conclusive in terms of clogging arteries due to fat intake alone.

Even more medical practioners are advising those with heart disease to limit sugar.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/08/25/aha.sugar.added/index.html

You're looking at the wrong boogie man.

 

[Brera]

The matrix has him.

Should have taken the red pill (it's high in fat)

 

[strobogo]

When I eat carby food, I do feel like shit afterwards. Bloated and fat.Half an hour later, I'm hungry and want more food!

With my high fat/protein diet, I never feel full and bloated and rarely feel hungry or starving, in fact I usually feel satisfied and have to force myself to eat to keep the fat/protein content up!

I find that eating tons of veggies makes me feel hungrier than if I had nothing to eat at all. Is that normal?

 

[Xeke]

I always thought high fat, low carb diets were bad for your heart.

Low carb wonder food.

 

[UrokeJoe]

Low carb wonder food.

To much powdered carb on the chicken.

 

[Brera]

I find that eating tons of veggies makes me feel hungrier than if I had nothing to eat at all. Is that normal?

Yep...ever noticed how when you have a big mac, you feel full but an hour later you are starving?

What has happened is that your body has used up all the carbs in the bun and salad, stored the fat from the lovely meat (never to be used) and now wants more energy (carbs) to use up what's been burned and will again store all the fat and use the carbs for energy (never to be used).

That's why people get obese. The body craves more and more carbs...it doesn't crave the fat, that just gets stored.

 

[Xeke]

To much powdered carb on the chicken.

Get the grilled chicken variety. Boom!

 

[BurritoBushido]

I always thought high fat, low carb diets were bad for your heart.

I started low carb/keto in 10 months ago. I've lost 70 pounds (300 to 230). I eat burgers and steak and bacon all the time. All of my blood work has come out great. Good blood pressure, good cholestorol, good everything.

My eating habits have changed permanently. I have become more aware of what I eat, and eat better overall permanently and will continue to do so for the rest of my life.

 

[Brera]

Low carb wonder food.

I've lost 2stone eating this shit!

 

[UrokeJoe]

Get the grilled chicken variety. Boom!

Fried in lard with bacon flour would be better.