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Is GAF too strict?
- Thread starter Kraftwerk
- Start date
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I think I'm awesome.
Don't you think that the use of gendered insults only helps to continue/reinforce the generally misogynistic tone of videogame/nerd culture?
I'm not aware of any part of any culture where bitch isn't used.
There may be a misogynistic tone in nerd culture, but bitch is at the very bottom of the list of problems.
IMO, it has even lost most of its gender specific connotation, looking at the use of bitching.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Two of the largest religious groups on the planet spend an ungodly amount if their time and resources just to oppress minorities and other no conforming groups. Not to mention science bashing.
This shouldn't be protected no matter how deep you believe Jesus or Muhammed touched your soul.
No. Particularly not the word 'bitch'.
BruiserBear
Banned
The only thing I'd change about the moderation here would be the banning of certain memes, etc.
edit: Maybe a few of the word bans are kind of annoying to. As others have pointed out, banning "bitch" seems a bit extreme. I guess it always depends on the context it's used though. Can someone explain to me in what context it is banable? I'm assuming only when it's directed at another poster?
edit: Maybe a few of the word bans are kind of annoying to. As others have pointed out, banning "bitch" seems a bit extreme. I guess it always depends on the context it's used though. Can someone explain to me in what context it is banable? I'm assuming only when it's directed at another poster?
Riposte
Member
Worst thing about mods. Sometimes I read them and I'm just puzzled why the worst sequences of words on site has to be repeated more than any one bad post. Some of them are just like: really? Were you drunk? Others are rather petty (I disagreed with this dude so I'm going to give him "bad taste" as a tag). Thread title edits are a close second (yeah, let's hide "Remember Aurora" in the title of a thread about talking about how cool Bane was in TDKR).
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
You, i, and everyone can criticize religion as much as we want but one should not be condescending and belittling fellow posters who follow these faiths.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
It would not be something that would happen today.
I was not a mod at the time, but for broader context--this was basically a console warrior meme argument that the poster stumbled into making and it had derailed that thread, and possibly a few before that, quite heavily. The mod who tried to purge it from the thread did post several warnings, which the poster either missed or chose to ignore, but I agree that making up rules as the thread goes along is not an ideal way to do things.
The two things that would be different today is that we'd have made it more clear that we were trying to get rid of the argument--probably by editing it into the title and the OP and providing more of an explanation than just an ultimateum; and second of all, the ban length wouldn't be remotely as long and most of the mods involved would probably choose to warn or at worst excise the posts from the thread rather than ban.
There are people of different beliefs on this board, and they may not agree with how others in their respective religions conduct themselves.
IMO, you or anyone else don't have the right to mock, harass or bully these people. You end up showing the same level of intolerance as those you attack. It looks quite sad honestly.
blitzcloud
Banned
I lik gaf. As a forum, it gets news pretty quick, and some users do share good information. There's also artist, game developers... it's a nice mix.
It's not always an intelligent debate, but at least those who fall too low get thrown away, and the registering process helps a lot avoiding trolls, alt accounts, spam, etc. At least here I can see they are risking something when they spurt crap through their keyboards.
It's not always an intelligent debate, but at least those who fall too low get thrown away, and the registering process helps a lot avoiding trolls, alt accounts, spam, etc. At least here I can see they are risking something when they spurt crap through their keyboards.
digita1alchemy
Member
GAF is too sensitive. Most of the strictness is probably for the best, though. You always have people who don't know where to draw the line.
Knux-Future
Banned
See this is the sarcastic shit he's talking about.
Yeah religion has been used as a way to oppress or outright kill people but that doesn't mean you have to treat people who believe shit shit. As long as they aren't in your face and dickish about it then why do you think it's okay to shit on their beliefs?
If you find out that a lot of comic book fans punch kittens in their spare time would that make it okay to go into the comic thread and call all of them stupid losers?
no.
Have some respect at least...even if you don't believe(personally I don't care what people believe in). Let people do what they do.
Agreed. Though If I was religious I would have skin as thick as the earth's crust, seeing as how I'm going to paradise forever and ever.
Dude Abides
Banned
That wasn't even sarcasm. Believers do, in fact, believe that Jesus or Muhammad has touched their souls. This is the kind of hypersensitive bullshit he's talking about.
BruiserBear
Banned
I think there is a difference between "mocking, harassing, and bullying", and telling it like it is. I think a lot of people confuse those things.
Whether people want to acknowledge it or not, many religions promote intolerance of other human beings sexual orientations, etc. There is nothing wrong with anyone pointing out the absurdity of those beliefs.
Now, just straight up bashing someone because they believe in god? I think that is wrong.
Was that sarcasm?
Alligatorjandro
Banned
repent heathen
Posted before I saw Mumei's post. Frankly I'm sorry but it sounds ridiculous. That rule's applied for years? Then why have mods used it and we used it for a whole season?
I don't even care that the word is banned. There's plenty more to use. It's the double standards and lack of consistency which is the stickler here.
I don't even care that the word is banned. There's plenty more to use. It's the double standards and lack of consistency which is the stickler here.
I can't find the post now with the links but in the football thread someone posted a few links with mods using the word in other threads, mainly sports ones. Strange behaviour if the word has been banned for years.
Do as I say not as I do scenario?
I hope the word 'cock' is banned then, I find it highly sexist and derogatory.
Which will get you banned quick as s*** in other discussions. I'm just pointing out that the moderation isn't even across the board. Truly, among the different "groups" here, atheistgaf has some of the most intolerant jerks and it goes largely unchecked.
Knux-Future
Banned
I know but he said in a way that seemingly mocked that feeling.
Like "lol they believe that god touches their soul...lol".
There is no need to belittle them for that...no mater potentially silly it may be.
It's a weird double standard that this board has at times. If this was done to any other group, he would be torn apart and called out for it.
If that's cool then you gotta let some other things slide.
I like jokes too. I joke about dumb and potentially fucked up shit with friends all the time (religion is one of them.... priest jokes yo) but on this board it seems to be the only group that is fair game. Once again I don't care about offensive jokes as long as they aren't personal attacks.
I'm just pointing out the weirdness that religion is open season.
This is what I meant by uneven.
I tend to use this word incorrectly..
that and irony.
Someday I will get it...
maybe.
ok no.
I don't much like the blanket banning of words. But I guess context banning is more troublesome. I mean, if there's an OP with a story of a guy feeling hard done by a girl, the next ten replies might be 'bitch' 'cunt' 'fucking bitch cunt'. I'm totally with that being bannable. But these words can also be used to pretty amusing effect sometimes, and I miss that.
Also, one thing GAF was good for was the totally out-there points of view, and nowadays it seems fewer people feel able to express these. I miss that too.
Also, one thing GAF was good for was the totally out-there points of view, and nowadays it seems fewer people feel able to express these. I miss that too.
Mr.NiceGuy
Banned
Can somone tell me if you got juniored will you get message from mods telling you the reason for being punished ?
I cannot imagine how being insulted could possible affect me if I was religious. Everything lobbed at me would seem beyond petty in the face of an all powerful god and eternity in paradise.
I do not see any justification for being offended by words in the face of an almighty god and an eternity in heaven. I think anyone who claims to be religious, and devout and is offended by what others say to them is being almost indescribably petty.
Roland Garros
Banned
Well that is perfectly reasonable. Good to see common sense prevailed.
You will hear nothing because all decisions are final.
Sye d'Burns
Member
So GAF's relative hyper-sensitivity to words is a reflection of its lack of belief?
Believe.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Religious people are still people
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
Then you're not English?
It's not the most important word in the world, but it has it's place and its uses and it's annoying to be denied it. But it has a far far more complex and nuanced uses than simply "it's a rude word for lady parts so its use = misogyny" like with fag and homophobia.
But I do believe that if you're banning the c word then bitch needs to be banned too (especially the specifically gendered use of it which is everywhere, especially in TV show threads).
But then again, I'd rather not ban any words.
This is something else I've seen. Now I'm not religious at all, I understand the majority either don't care or are atheists but if GAF is all about this being respectful to everybody why is it basically encouraged to shit on those who hold a particular faith?
Not with the word "bitch" a word that is freely used in basically every medium without worry for being censored. Words like shit, fuck, dick, faggot/fag, cunt and nigger/nigga are all bleeped out even in some mature shows or channels yet this word isn't because nobody bats an eye when it's said since it carries no weight at all. In America the word cunt is probably the worst word you can call a woman and so I at least understand that one, though like others have said if this place wasn't USA-centered the word wouldn't be held in such contempt. Either way the word bitch itself isn't that derrogatory, especially considering some of the others that are, rightfully, ban-worthy.
Unless you're a member of a pre-approved outrage group, you're shit out of luck.
I find your generalisation grossly offensive. I hope it doesn't go unchecked.
(I like the slippery slope of 'getting offended').
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
Roland Garros
Banned
Sye d'Burns
Member
Taken in isolation, it would be. If you consider the deluge of baiting and general asshattery that follows even the most mundane references to religion, it pales in comparison.
Only on specific topics. You can call people of any religion whatever god awful dirty insult you want but god help your account if you make even a tame joke about female drivers.
::edit::
Though admittedly Dragona isn't around to do that kind of banning anymore. I was, however, very much thinking about the ban in that "girl nerd" thread where the guy made what was very obviously a joke about banging her or something like that.
::edit again::
I was salva's post #5 in this thread.
::edit::
Though admittedly Dragona isn't around to do that kind of banning anymore. I was, however, very much thinking about the ban in that "girl nerd" thread where the guy made what was very obviously a joke about banging her or something like that.
::edit again::
I was salva's post #5 in this thread.
Sp3eD
0G M3mbeR
The only rule I hate here is how the mods have everybody scared to admit they pirate stuff every once in a while. Reading the "have you ever been caught tormenting" thread is full of people lying through their teeth and it is completely obvious. You are allowed to say you use drugs here so the morality aspect has always been hilarious to me.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
You are absolutely correct that it's a completely different forum, but your post misses that GAF is also, I dunno, 100 times larger than it was then. A lot of the measures you're talking about that exist now and didn't then are pretty much necessary to keep the place inclusive when there are as many members as there are now, but also to prevent unbelievable derails and dogpiles. No amount of moderation can ever fix the signal-to-noise ratio in a forum this large, so it's mostly about triaging and avoiding the worst most cruel stuff.
You can feel free to tell me different, but my perception at least is that this is less true now than any other time in GAF's history. The moderators that people historically identified as being associated with that kind of thing generally aren't moderators anymore. The replacement moderators are much more likely to be criticized for being robots or lacking a sense of humour than being too aggressive. I can tell you that ban messages are much, much, much, much less insulting now than they ever were before. I can also say that mods seem to avoid moderating threads they're passionately involved in--so you don't get the insult -> counter-insult -> banned chain of events.
If you feel like there's a moderator who doesn't live up to this, even me, PM me and I promise I'll give it enough attention that you can make fun of me for taking this stuff too seriously.
I agree that if this happens, it's unfortunate. I think it's important to separate people's point of view from people's treatment of others. I can tell you that there are regulars on GAF who have repeatedly expressed an anti-SSM position and are not banned for it. planar is one of them. In general, though, maybe there's a situation where someone expresses an opinion, is dogpiled or pressed for followup because their opinion is controversial, and in the process ends up insulting people or choosing their words poorly. If that happens, that's unfortunate.
That being said, I think you're discussing an extreme minority of bans. I don't ban a lot of people--looks like about 25 in the last 3 months and I'm not sure that banning someone for posting a decapitation GIF is really all that controversial. The vast majority of bans that we would classify as "jerk" bans (insults, insensitive or rude remarks towards others, etc) are pretty cut and dry.
If there's one thing I'd say is unfortunate is that sometimes a thread will end up with a lot of short bans in it might come off as being the kind of thing you're talking about. Obviously each mod needs to decide how to best respond to a thread that's totally off the rails.
To be honest, the only place on the forum where this is an actual consequence of toxic discussion as opposed to just a numbers game where people happen to agree is PoliGAF, where pretty much everyone knows everyone and everyone is pretty entrenched in their positions, politically. I find satellite political threads are much better. The consensus might end up being progressive (by American standards, although I'd question even that--there's a libertarian anti-bureaucratic/nanny state run amok position, the forum's aggregate position on drugs is not even on the US political spectrum, and it strikes me that the overall attitude towards justice is more populist and angry than rehabilitative... to name just three issues where the debate diverges significantly from what I'd expect from a progressive forum) but I think non-progressives who try to be articulate can generally find a place.
If you feel like we suck or there's something we can be doing better, let me know via PM or in this thread. Obviously GAF isn't democratic, but I like hearing people's input in general. Specific examples help, because then I can look at the actual case instead of trying to assess the site as a whole and maybe coming to a different conclusion than you. Cheers.
This is true.
The first advice I'd give to a poster is that if they feel like they're being ganged up on or goaded, exit the thread rather than saying something they regret... but yeah, obviously there's more work to be done in preventing things from getting to that level.
(I'm still AFK for the next week or so, despite this post, so please no contacting me about clerical stuff like name changes.)
Nope, when you're banned you at least get some vague explanation. When you're juniored you don't get anything at all. I still don't know the exact reason why I was juniored, and despite asking mods and even admins about the reason I never even get a reply. It's something I've said already and other posters also expressed. People get banned or juniored but never get a real explanation. How do you expect people to learn from this? Sometimes they know what they did but as has been shown in this thread it's not always so clear. A good explanation will do a lot in bettering the posts around the forum, tell a person where they messed up and at least they don't have the bullshit excuse of "oh but I didn't know/nobody told me anything!"
Sure EviLore in this travelling thread had huge posts devoted to that.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
but then this is exactly the problem of punishing many for the actions of a few. i would wager that the majority of gaf were probably atheist. it's the ultimate irony.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I have read and responded to dozens if not hundreds of posts that disagree with "the mob" on everything from religion to foreign culture where the posters didn't get banned. Its all about presentation.
With that said, I wouldn't mind seeing increased force used against blithe anti-religion posts. They really do drag down the dialogue.
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
That's good to hear, I've walked away from arguments with mods before in fear of the banhammer.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Typically the answer is "check your thread history", but I don't really see anything in yours. I will try to follow up on this. Cheers.
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