PeteBull
Member
I love the halo tank model in that pic, it look so...solid
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
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Luipadre
Gold Member
Only thing i hate about the new anvil engine are the DLSS4 bugs. Flying leaves has really bad ghosting, this was more present in shadows due to more leaves in the air, but its still here and the horizontal lines in the distance thats more visible on fog and clouds. When you move the camera fast you can see it and when you stop moving it, it disappears after a few seconds, but still annoying to look atMan, this game is just incredible in terms of graphics. I am loving it
Gonzito
Gold Member
I am not seeing this with the default DLSS at all
Luipadre
Gold Member
Are you using 4.5? Shadows had the same annoying bug. Maybe its for the better you dont see it
Luipadre
Gold Member
Yeah DLSS3 doesnt have these issues, but i just cant go back to DLSS3 blur. Im using DLSS4, because 4.5 looks bad at 1440p
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Gonzito
Gold Member
Are you using 4.5? Shadows had the same annoying bug. Maybe its for the better you dont see it
Yeah I am using the default but I am using DLAA. Why dont you try DLAA? In your graphics card you should get still good performance
Luipadre
Gold Member
im at 70% scale with dlss4. Looks amazing and the performance is good. DLSS3 dlaa would look worse
viveks86
Member
AI acceleration is probably the only way it will eventually get there. But it's very early days for that. I can see AI driven simulations for non interactive objects first, like clouds. It seems like AI driven character movement, facial animation and inverse kinematics is in active research as well. And eventually most physics that don't need to be 100% accurate/consistent will be AI driven. But that's likely several years out.
There's also a lot of research work on using ray tracing to perform collision detection. Could be a huge boost for gpu driven physics that can massively parallel process this. Once accurate fluid simulation in 3d becomes reasonably mature (like the one I posted earlier, but 10x faster) they can use that for training AI models to accelerate to realtime performance. Training it based on 2D videos just doesn't cut it. It will always look uncanny and break immersion
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol meant to post this in the graphics thread but somehow i was in the OT.
The new update adds fog back into the game. And reduced the chances for rain. Played it all night last night and man some of these lighting conditions are just as jaw dropping as they were in AC Shadows. This is such a great remake. Im so sick of the way sony does remakes. They take a game, literally copy paste last gen assets on it, and add last gen lighting and call it a day. HZD and TLOU1 feel so dated because of this. At least BP used next gen assets and lighting for Demon Souls.
I really like the use of RT reflections here as well. I myself have been like you dont need RT reflections for games set in the wilderness or in non-urban setting worlds. But when it rains in this game, it creates these amazing looking puzzles with pristine reflections that add a whole new dimension to the visuals.
The hair looks gobsmackingly good during cutscenes. I cant stop taking pics of the hair. its not consistent. the padre doesnt have great hair. Edward's ponytail doesnt always show the hair tech well but so many other NPCs look phenomenal thanks to the new hair tech.
And thats the thing, they used the next gen GPU to push all these fancy next gen features while HZD and TLOU1 used none of them. HZD is so frustrating because they used the tech in HFW but didnt realize its still last gen tech. Same gen as HFW. All the poor draw distance issues are there. All the odd lighting quirks of HFW are there. Why not add RTGI? Why not increase the draw distance? Implement a better LOD system? WTF is the point of doing a remake when you are using the SAME gen assets you fucking morons.
Just look at this asset quality. love the way the sunlight bounces off of the wood materials. this is as close to nanite materials ive seen any other engine come.
The new update adds fog back into the game. And reduced the chances for rain. Played it all night last night and man some of these lighting conditions are just as jaw dropping as they were in AC Shadows. This is such a great remake. Im so sick of the way sony does remakes. They take a game, literally copy paste last gen assets on it, and add last gen lighting and call it a day. HZD and TLOU1 feel so dated because of this. At least BP used next gen assets and lighting for Demon Souls.
I really like the use of RT reflections here as well. I myself have been like you dont need RT reflections for games set in the wilderness or in non-urban setting worlds. But when it rains in this game, it creates these amazing looking puzzles with pristine reflections that add a whole new dimension to the visuals.
The hair looks gobsmackingly good during cutscenes. I cant stop taking pics of the hair. its not consistent. the padre doesnt have great hair. Edward's ponytail doesnt always show the hair tech well but so many other NPCs look phenomenal thanks to the new hair tech.
And thats the thing, they used the next gen GPU to push all these fancy next gen features while HZD and TLOU1 used none of them. HZD is so frustrating because they used the tech in HFW but didnt realize its still last gen tech. Same gen as HFW. All the poor draw distance issues are there. All the odd lighting quirks of HFW are there. Why not add RTGI? Why not increase the draw distance? Implement a better LOD system? WTF is the point of doing a remake when you are using the SAME gen assets you fucking morons.
Just look at this asset quality. love the way the sunlight bounces off of the wood materials. this is as close to nanite materials ive seen any other engine come.
Gonzito
Gold Member
lol meant to post this in the graphics thread but somehow i was in the OT.
The new update adds fog back into the game. And reduced the chances for rain. Played it all night last night and man some of these lighting conditions are just as jaw dropping as they were in AC Shadows. This is such a great remake. Im so sick of the way sony does remakes. They take a game, literally copy paste last gen assets on it, and add last gen lighting and call it a day. HZD and TLOU1 feel so dated because of this. At least BP used next gen assets and lighting for Demon Souls.
I really like the use of RT reflections here as well. I myself have been like you dont need RT reflections for games set in the wilderness or in non-urban setting worlds. But when it rains in this game, it creates these amazing looking puzzles with pristine reflections that add a whole new dimension to the visuals.
The hair looks gobsmackingly good during cutscenes. I cant stop taking pics of the hair. its not consistent. the padre doesnt have great hair. Edward's ponytail doesnt always show the hair tech well but so many other NPCs look phenomenal thanks to the new hair tech.
And thats the thing, they used the next gen GPU to push all these fancy next gen features while HZD and TLOU1 used none of them. HZD is so frustrating because they used the tech in HFW but didnt realize its still last gen tech. Same gen as HFW. All the poor draw distance issues are there. All the odd lighting quirks of HFW are there. Why not add RTGI? Why not increase the draw distance? Implement a better LOD system? WTF is the point of doing a remake when you are using the SAME gen assets you fucking morons.
Just look at this asset quality. love the way the sunlight bounces off of the wood materials. this is as close to nanite materials ive seen any other engine come.
yeah when I read it I was thinking this doesnt belong here lol
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GymWolf
Gold Member
lol meant to post this in the graphics thread but somehow i was in the OT.
The new update adds fog back into the game. And reduced the chances for rain. Played it all night last night and man some of these lighting conditions are just as jaw dropping as they were in AC Shadows. This is such a great remake. Im so sick of the way sony does remakes. They take a game, literally copy paste last gen assets on it, and add last gen lighting and call it a day. HZD and TLOU1 feel so dated because of this. At least BP used next gen assets and lighting for Demon Souls.
I really like the use of RT reflections here as well. I myself have been like you dont need RT reflections for games set in the wilderness or in non-urban setting worlds. But when it rains in this game, it creates these amazing looking puzzles with pristine reflections that add a whole new dimension to the visuals.
The hair looks gobsmackingly good during cutscenes. I cant stop taking pics of the hair. its not consistent. the padre doesnt have great hair. Edward's ponytail doesnt always show the hair tech well but so many other NPCs look phenomenal thanks to the new hair tech.
And thats the thing, they used the next gen GPU to push all these fancy next gen features while HZD and TLOU1 used none of them. HZD is so frustrating because they used the tech in HFW but didnt realize its still last gen tech. Same gen as HFW. All the poor draw distance issues are there. All the odd lighting quirks of HFW are there. Why not add RTGI? Why not increase the draw distance? Implement a better LOD system? WTF is the point of doing a remake when you are using the SAME gen assets you fucking morons.
Just look at this asset quality. love the way the sunlight bounces off of the wood materials. this is as close to nanite materials ive seen any other engine come.
Jesus the difference in how realistic the lighting is...
Fw wood look radioactive
First time I see you using the word "paste", feels weird. If it ain't copy pasta I don't take your post seriously!!!
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I could read your posts all day long, man. Do you think animations (I am a hardcore sports gamer) have a bright future? If there is one area that has stagnated like fucking crazy it's animations.
Killer8
Member
The injector shader for FF7 Rebirth is out and it has a lot of improvements. I dare to say it is transformative
Crazy that it doesnt affect performance at all and its not in the game lol
OFF
ON
So some injected shaders can cure golbin looking character models with no lighting, but the so-called "Capgods" say you'll need path-tracing to achieve similar results.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Youtuber Joe Raptor did an hour long interview with the game director for Black Flag, and apparently they built this game from scratch. They did look at the code and the original's graphics as reference, but apparently the engine and the game code itself was too old to try and plug in the upgrades so this is basically a brand new game. Im surprised at how faithful it is considering its not running the base game code underneath like the Bluepoint remakes, and TLOU1/HZD.
Took them only 3 years as well. Pretty impressive all things considered.
The interview is like 55 minutes long, and Joe is not really a good interviewer but worth a watch if you want some details on this game's development.
Took them only 3 years as well. Pretty impressive all things considered.
The interview is like 55 minutes long, and Joe is not really a good interviewer but worth a watch if you want some details on this game's development.
kevboard
Gold Member
what that shows is that increased asset fidelity is not what makes games take ages to develop now.
it's clearly a lack of focus.
because they did a remake, that design focus and vision was already there, and everyone knew exactly what the end product is supposed to be.
people will often give the increased asset detail the blame for dev cycles to have spiraled out of control, which never made sense to me as the tools to create those assets have been getting more and more streamlined, while the increased GPU and CPU power meant fewer design restrictions and fewer adjustments need to be made during development.
it's clearly mostly the lack of focus and bad team management that blew up dev times.
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Gonzito
Gold Member
That being said, I have downloaded Shadows and in my opinion it looks better, crisper, better textures and better LOD
If you have time download the game and check to see, I am curious to hear your thoughts but I am practically certain that Shadows looks better
GymWolf
Gold Member
Never looked as good as your bf?
Gonzito
Gold Member
I am talking about textures, assets quality, geometry and LODs. Not the art style or colours
GymWolf
Gold Member
Yes and bf look better to me in those aspects, but since you are not the first one saying that shadows looks better, i was trying to find an alternative reason...
I played both games maxed out so why bf actually look like the cherry picked pics or even better when shadows never remotely looked like some of the pics i saw i here?
Gonzito
Gold Member
weird, I will make some screenshots now and upload them, give me a few minutes
GymWolf
Gold Member
No need dude, i believe you.
A.Romero
Member
The injector shader for FF7 Rebirth is out and it has a lot of improvements. I dare to say it is transformative
Crazy that it doesnt affect performance at all and its not in the game lol
OFF
ON
This looks cool.
I'll give it a try this weekend. Thanks for sharing.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Shadows has a much more subdued color palette. It also truly fully shines when weather, time of day and seasons all collide to create some stunning visuals. If you didnt play Shadows more than 15-20 hours, you probably didnt get to see it at its best. The opening areas arent really that great. I was pretty meh on it for almost a week until i got out of the first area and started seeing more of the game world.
Black Flag is indeed more colorful, vibrant, and in your face with some of the most gorgeous blue water ive seen in games paired up with lush green trees and sandy beaches that just pop much like HFW did.
Shadows, outlaws, Avatar, Cyberpunk and Red Dead are games i never uninstall because i love going back to them just to see the visuals. I tried Shadows a day or two before Black Flag came out to try and compare it with Yotei, and yeah, id say it has its own strengths but mostly in the art department. its a far more cohesive game.
Gonzito
Gold Member
The vegetation feels more lush, textures are very crisp even up close, and in general I feel like there is more complexity in the environments. Geometry seems better too, I love how both games look dont get me wrong, but Shadows feels somehow superiors in my brain
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GymWolf
Gold Member
The city architecture of havana and nassau just look more impressive to me, i dont know how to explain with words...The vegetation feels more lush, textures are very crisp even up close, and in general I feel like there is more complexity in the environments. Geometry seems better too, I love how both games look dont get me wrong, but Shadows feels somehow superiors in my brain
Maybe it is just the different location and i find the cities in bf just more pleasant to look than feudal japan...maybe the buildings material are different? More stone in bf, more wood in shadow? Maybe?
The vegetation does look great tho.
The difference is probably so small that it really depend on what you like more as a location, i find feudal japan extremely boring after a while, it all blurred together.
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Balducci30
Member
I don't feel that way at all with Cyberpunk, the intimate relational moments felt much more immersive to me than in the Witcher. Third person feels more like you're watching something happen to someone else imo. And like one of the posters above said first person just works better for when you're in small spaces. Cyberpunk definitely has its own problems though with its glitches and details - first person will amplify that.
[sorry about the low-res images, couldn't find better ones]
CP's 1st person view wasn't very immersive, it drew more attention to visual glitches and the low-quality environmental objects which looked more like clutter that didn't belong in the scene than well-defined details with character
it was a great game but It gave me a headache to look around a room for certain objects among all the other overwhelming HUD and visual clutter that made it impossible to immerse yourself
I've noticed that I have never had that problem with a UE5 game. Nanite and great lighting helps tell things apart more easily during hectic moments of gameplay
It makes sense for games like Ill, but for other games I absolutely hate it.First person is definitely more immersive if done well, and i'm a third person lover for the most part.
Something like Ill would not look quite the same in third person
Or the scene where the huge head come out of the wall.
[sorry about the low-res images, couldn't find better ones]
CP's 1st person view wasn't very immersive, it drew more attention to visual glitches and the low-quality environmental objects which looked more like clutter that didn't belong in the scene than well-defined details with character
it was a great game but It gave me a headache to look around a room for certain objects among all the other overwhelming HUD and visual clutter that made it impossible to immerse yourself
I've noticed that I have never had that problem with a UE5 game. Nanite and great lighting helps tell things apart more easily during hectic moments of gameplay
Mate, the reason why some of assets stand out for some people is because they tried to play it on console which was too little for this game. Game is absolutely peak when it comes to art + technology marriage as one.
Me just randomly walking around just one street out of whole city, no story or anything, just night city itself without any story shots with extra details:
Watch on OLED with HDR and feast your eyes:
Like if you are not playing 4k with Path tracing with decent oled and HDR you are not even able to see how this game can look.
viveks86
Member
Once PT is mainstream, it's the only area in game graphics that still has the longest way to go. Unlike PT, good animations aren't an exact science, so a lot of it comes down to pure artist skill, and very few studios have such top tier talent. The other is funding/resources for mocap. And even if those hurdles are crossed, there are CPU bottlenecks in how many animations a system can handle at a time. The CPU bottlenecks will likely be addressed next gen (some games are already doing it this gen by shifting a lot of physics to GPU), but the others are unsolvable problems without AI assistance. There's a lot of work underway to convert simple video feeds into mocap data. Combine that with motion matching and neural network based character movement/facial animation and a lot of heavy lifting can be avoided, without requiring skilled artists. Then the differentiation will be on the finer details that make the highest tier of games always standout that need that human touch.
Here's one that looks really promising on movement. Character is completely adapting on the fly with no canned animation, based on generative AI trained on hundreds of thousands of videos.
But all very early days. May be 5 to 10 years before something like that can make its way into games and animate 100s of characters in real time. May need another generation before consoles can handle them.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
H . R . 2
Member
I get your point but that's not the problem I was referring to, I actually played the game on PC at max settings but without RTX and HDRMate, the reason why some of assets stand out for some people is because they tried to play it on console which was too little for this game. Game is absolutely peak when it comes to art + technology marriage as one.
Me just randomly walking around just one street out of whole city, no story or anything, just night city itself without any story shots with extra details:
Watch on OLED with HDR and feast your eyes:
Like if you are not playing 4k with Path tracing with decent oled and HDR you are not even able to see how this game can look.
if that's what it takes to enjoy the game, then it proves my point that the migration to UE5 is perhaps the right decision
the engine was not suitable for rendering micro details
most anything can look good when you throw more power and money at it
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Buggy Loop
Member
Bojji
Member
Bojji do you have rebar turned on globally or you turn it on on a game per game basis?
I don't bother with it personally, I tested it around 3xxx series launch and most games are blacklisted by NV. When people tested performance, in most cases it's the same or worse with Rebar forced on (with inspector), there are exceptions like Dead Space but nvidia in general just whitelist games that work better with Rebar enabled.
I have it enabled in bios and that's it.
Senua
Member
How I feel anytime Vick posts about a PS4 game
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Everyone in this thread:
- OMG Path Tracing in Cyberpunk is amazing!
- OMG Nanite is incredible!
- OMG Ray traced GI in shadows is amazing!
- OMG next gen Hair tech and destruction physics!
- OMG Water physics in Crimson Desert are amazing!
Vick:
- Have you seen realtime flash light shadows in Uncharted 4? Here are 29,000 gifs and screenshots.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Here are some side by side AC Shadows and Black Flag comparisons.
The colors in Shadows are definitely more muted. But honestly i dont like the orange lighting in Black Flags cities and plantations. I do prefer the beach lighting which gets rid of the orange hue.
Animations are so clean in Shadows. man it doesnt get enough credit for its animations. Naoe especially moves like a snake.
Water is obviously better. I think materials look better because of the brighter lighting in general in Black Flags. There are certain times of day in summer where the lighting is closer to Black Flag in terms of brightness and you can see the assets really pop but obviously thats not always the case because day time lighting changes with seasons in Shadows.
P.S Foliage isnt destructible in Black Flag which is probably why its so much more detailed.
The colors in Shadows are definitely more muted. But honestly i dont like the orange lighting in Black Flags cities and plantations. I do prefer the beach lighting which gets rid of the orange hue.
Animations are so clean in Shadows. man it doesnt get enough credit for its animations. Naoe especially moves like a snake.
Water is obviously better. I think materials look better because of the brighter lighting in general in Black Flags. There are certain times of day in summer where the lighting is closer to Black Flag in terms of brightness and you can see the assets really pop but obviously thats not always the case because day time lighting changes with seasons in Shadows.
P.S Foliage isnt destructible in Black Flag which is probably why its so much more detailed.
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