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ByWatterson
Member
I dunno. Streaming services are, in general, not growing, and many are actually losing subscribers.
Either way, a $17/mo charge on top of all the others is a big pill to swallow. The only possible way to justify it is their ephemeral goal of one big game per quarter - but EVERY single one of those would need to be a must-play, as Sony has largely achieved about twice a year.
And Xbox hasn't put out even one of them in over a decade.
Check the facts & not your feelings look at the numbers.
Series is falling behind Xbox One even with a cheaper model & no Kinect to blame for Xbox not doing as good as PlayStation.
Series X was everything the fan boys wanted they was running victory laps before the gun went off but look at them now.
I promise you Series S with Kinect would be putting up a fight right now which is more than we can say for Series S/X right now
|OT| - |OT| Xbox Power King Memes
Rather than fill up *every* thread with gloating memes ... let’s just do it here so not every PlayStation fan has to endure the suffering of their personal embarrassment in all places at all times.
Mozza
Member
We will see.
Alan Wake
Member
Yeah, that's why I would like to see some research on this because I can only look at myself, friends and colleagues. Some people are paying for five streaming services and there's no way they have time to use them all enough. But we get used to having all the content really fast. Same thing with Game Pass. I don't know how much I use it every year, but it would feel weird if it wasn't there.
Topher
Gold Member
Simply disagree. We are both speculating on what would have happened my man. That's not factual and has nothing to do with my "feelings".
Factually, there is a reason why Phil Spencer pulled Kinect and it has everything to do with poor sales and that $500 price tag. If you think he was wrong then that's your opinion and that's fine. XSS was designed to be cheap. Kinect would not have allowed that. It would have been a disaster.
No idea what that screen grab was supposed to mean.
GHG
Member
|OT| - |OT| Xbox Power King Memes
Rather than fill up *every* thread with gloating memes ... let’s just do it here so not every PlayStation fan has to endure the suffering of their personal embarrassment in all places at all times.www.neogaf.com
I don't think I've ever seen a thread that's aged as badly as that one, good lord.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Again... We are talking about a better way to have spent what they have already spent.
I simply don't feel buying Activision and bethesda was a better use of that $75B. If they had that much to spend coming into this gen, then they could have used $35B to subsidize 90M XSX consoles, and have 90M people with Xboxes in under two years. buying COD, Sarfeid,RE4....etc and pain for amepas. Even if only 2/3rd of those 90M subscribe to game pass. Oubid Sony on every single third-party deal...etc
If they had done that, I believe it would have done more for Xbox than what they have done with that money.
Nothing illegal about subsidizing your hardware.
StereoVsn
Member
The issue wasn’t Kinect per se but they MS generally abandoned most of their other game development. Hence the impression that MS was all Halo, Gears and Forza. Mr, Phil Spencer was in charge of MS Game Studios at the time I believe.
And Kinect turned out to be a fleeting thing that casuals abandoned and core audience didn’t embrace.
Topher
Gold Member
And let's not forget that Kinect was available for sale separately and still no one bought the thing. Three years after it was removed from Xbox One, Kinect was dead entirely.
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StereoVsn
Member
Thing is MS should have made it an accessory like PSVR and not mandatory in the first place. At least with X One.
The reason motion controls worked for the Wii was that they were novel and they were cheap. Hence casuals jumped in.
If Phil and Co maintained Kinect as an option, they could have made some money, gotten some interesting games, and had a bit of extra 3rd party support.
Instead they just killed it, shut down studios, etc…. And since they killed a lot of regular 1st party devs to shift to Kinect it caused even more issues.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Yea, in hindsight that interview answer was more like setting expectations - he knew what the game was by that point. There is apathy to the series consoles because the games just haven't been good enough. I really think if Halo Infinite launched with the system and was a Halo 3-tier of game then this entire gen would have played out differently, but it was just a total disaster, and again in hindsight, it just was not going to happen. Asking 343 to do that is like asking a minor league team to win the World Series.
Putting Starfield aside, Forza came out this year, six years since last game, and it's okay... but really inconsistent and disappointed pretty much everyone. Then Sony dropped a big patch for GT7 that everyone loved immediately after. It's just a mess and you can't get people to line up behind a console with worse games than the other console. It's never happened before (*insert Sega 90s hipsters*).
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StereoVsn
Member
Yep, but because, IMO, there was no consistency in MS support and MS poisoned the well, so to speak, with their Xbone shenanigans of always on DRM, TV/TV/TV and basically putting half the EU as “2nd tier”.
The fact is Xbox best sales years was with Kinect
Killjoy-NL
Member
I think the Wii U failing had more to do with the Wii being so successful due to all the soccer moms and non-gamers getting swept up in the Wii-hype.
Nintendo was always going to lose a lot of the Wii-installbase. The Wii being the least used console that gen was a dead giveaway.
Switch is such a success because Nintendo combined console with handheld, the latter being the market where they're dominating.
I think it was more of a demographic-issue with the Wii U.
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Woopah
Member
Yes you're right. I double checked and there was a hardware impact in the US and the UK, but pretty much 0 impact in continenral Europe.
geary
Member
You can talk all you want about exclusive, but they have a small part in the failures of MS. The biggest part in its failures are the fact that people dont want to change ecosystem and leave behind they digital library and also people go where their friends are and in the last gen their friends were on PS.
There are predatory pricing laws
Topher
Gold Member
Which years?
Woopah
Member
What are you basing the bolded on?
Topher
Gold Member
Disregard. I'm wrong.
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nosoynadie22
Member
Is it legal to subsidize 80-90% of the real price of the product? Isn't that a very aggressive move? It is basically leaving your competitors without any chance.
Killjoy-NL
Member
Wii is least used current-gen console
Nintendo's Wii is the home console that sees the least amount of use in the US, according to new research by Nielsen. I…
www.gamesindustry.biz
It's easy to find with a simple google search.
Thought it was common knowledge.
cireza
Member
Quite sure the attach rate was actually pretty high for the Wii. Something like 10 games.
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Topher
Gold Member
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Woopah
Member
The Wii's attach rate was 9.13, higher than the SNES, N64, DS and 3DS. That does include Wii Sports, but it doesn't account for any Wiiware or Virtual Console titles.
Woopah
Member
Thanks!Wii is least used current-gen console
Nintendo's Wii is the home console that sees the least amount of use in the US, according to new research by Nielsen. I…
It's easy to find with a simple google search.
Thought it was common knowledge.
2011
ChorizoPicozo
Member
These people wanna play the "console warz" when the console doesn't even matter for their beloved company....Talking about toxic relationships.
Topher
Gold Member
Ah....ok. Yeah, lots of folks loved motion controls that gen.
ByWatterson
Member
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Outbidding Sony on all 3P deals wouldn't get them anywhere because they wouldn't get most of those deals anyway. A company that's looking to maximize B2P sales revenue for their titles isn't going to prioritize the platform with less sales the generation prior. At the very least, a lot of the biggest 3P would wait to see if MS's 1P titles can hit big B2P sales revenue targets, before opening up and taking those deals.
The reason being, because they don't want to risk leaving a spot open for a rival to make a marketing deal with PlayStation and potentially eat up their game's customer base on that platform while they are locked into a marketing deal with Xbox. Because if the Xbox deal doesn't go well, that pub has to return to what worked before, but they might not get as favorable a marketing deal with Sony the next time because someone else moved into their space on PlayStation the last time.
It's an inherent risk, which is why even if Microsoft offer up more money, they may not necessarily get the deal. That's to say nothing of the other things a platform holder can provide to bolster appeal and B2P sales, things that historically, Sony have been much better at providing than Microsoft.
IMO MS always had the chips stacked against them this gen because they did barely anything 1P software-wise to rebuild the XBO in its last years. The Zenimax acquisition was a nice boost but that has now failed them because the two most prolific releases post-Ghostwire, RedFall and Starfield, were either abject failures or mostly mediocre. So that has dampened a lot of what momentum they could have gotten from the Zenimax deal (HiFi Rush being basically obscure in comparison doesn't help). It's probably why the finalization of the ABK deal didn't produce a net boost in hardware sales that it otherwise could have.
Nothing of genuine substance from MS's previous acquisitions have really manifested yet and it's been five years in some cases. Sony & Nintendo aren't slowing down; they're accelerating, and so is the rest of the industry. So the bar's always being raised but it feels to many that Microsoft's constantly stuck competing with what was yesterday's standard. Fine and well, but the competitors have already upped their game...where's Microsoft to compete with that?
They're nowhere, and that's a massive problem.
To an extent. It can become illegal if they are doing so at a price that ignore market realities with component pricing & production, and marking the price down to a level where no other competitor with similar product can realistically compete even if they are otherwise selling really well in the market, without bleeding money and potentially bankrupting themselves out of the market.
Theoretically MS could subsidize Xbox consoles to where they are $0, and the money bled would mean nothing for them since they bring in $160+ billion a year in revenue (and at least $60 billion a year in profits). 90 million Xboxes (split between S and X) would be $35.91 billion (assuming MSRP)...they could recover that and double it in profit in a single year. But that would be an overstep in leveraging their corporate cash flow to undercut competition into unrealistic pricing wars.
It's basically predatory pricing, and Microsoft's get that wrecked in a heartbeat if they tried. They have to keep pricing realistic to some reasonable degree in line with what a typical competitor in that space would be pricing the product at, if they are sourcing similar components at relatively similar scales. There's 0% chance SIE can subsidize 40+ million PS5s at $0 just to grow marketshare, without running the subsidiary into the ground and Sony alongside with it.
The only platform publisher I remember seeing "effectively" subsidizing their hardware to $0 was Sega when they did the Sega.NET $200 rebates for Dreamcasts. But that was a desperation play, and users still paid for a product (Sega.NET). In a way, Microsoft are already doing this with All Access, where in exchange for a fixed 2-year Game Pass contract you get a "free" Series S or Series X. That's probably the legal extent a company can subsidize this type of hardware; the deal with Verizon for Series S consoles falls under similar classification.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
now i listened to the defining dukes:
"those markets don't matter, CoD is saving us"
"those markets don't matter, CoD is saving us"
Crayon
Member
Okay I'll try it. I assume we are starting from right before the Bethesda acquisition. I would rather give back half the money to start 5 years earlier, but here it goes. 75 billion.
We're going to gear up to skip next generation, and come back after that one with a rebrand and some type of hardware be it console, VR headset or whatever that is a fit in that market. Not just come out and try to be PlayStation all over again.
In the meantime:
Revisions of the series consoles will has to extend all the way to 3036 or something like that. That includes a few pro increments. As games come out that can't run on the series s, or eventually the series x, I allow those systems to only play streaming versions of the games. Suffer some backlash for this, but those systems will be quite old. Cut the ad spend, funding, etc. put Xbox down softly.
In the meantime, throw some them billions at the r&d department so were ready to have what the market wants in 2036.
Have MS start two new publishers as subsidiaries. We need to get our studios working as far away from this fuckshop as possible. Hire consultants to plan and staff these up, because nobody at ms can do this right for whatever reason.
Current studios are all up for sale as we will be shifting development to these two publishers. If one of them doesn't want to buy you, and nobody else wants to buy you, your ass is grass.
Now just the ip's are owned by xbox games. There is no xgs.
Get those publishers up and running. But some studios, start some studios, and find some talent. Remember this is started with the help of expert consultants so that our own bad decision machine can be further removed Keep Phil away from this place. They just need to each make half of what Sony makes. It's not like we are trying to build an Activision here. At this point they have 15 years to totally take over the reigns. In the meantime, the various teams under xgs better shape up if they was to be purchased when the for sale sign goes up.
Going to have to do something about game pass. It's not realistic to skip all the game sales of these expensive games. Going to have to find some sleazy ass way to walk back the day one promise and give the fans a mantra to explain why it's not just okay but great. They can make an ear-splitting echo chamber so that probloggers can pick it up the narrative. Good thing we're microsoft!
And that will be our last gaslighting campaign. Shut all that down and let the cult flame out as they asphyxiate with ever less exciting series revisions. That stuff has unintended consequences. It ended up making Xbox look like a club nobody wanted to be in. Besides, it's wrong and God knows we could use a bit of karma right now.
So in short, ride xbs through the next generation, de emphasize game pass, keep making your cruddy games while the two publishers spin up then be ready with a new hardware brand for the ps7 era, and most importantly don't assume it will be "the Playstation killer" and start this whole saga all over again.
I know nothing about business and I am only hitting post because all the time I spent writing that.
Alan Wake
Member
Microsoft repeated Nintendo's mistake. They both thought they could do the same thing over again and that it would work. It didn't. I do understand why Microsoft thought the Kinect packed in could be a thing after the enormous success they've had with the Kinect as a peripheral, but that ship had sailed.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
I always thought the kinect had a lot of potential but instead microsoft turned it into a waggle-waggle controller.
It's dead now, so whatever.
It's dead now, so whatever.
SkylineRKR
Member
Yes its true but we know how the Wii fell of a cliff and the Wii U despite the name bombed. It really was a fad, not something they could build upon for years to come. Which is why Xbox One crashed and burned too. If they did read the market well, or didn't have Don Mattrick perhaps, they would've launched the Xbox without it for 100 less and perhaps put up a better fight at least.
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ShadowkillXNA
Member
SRTtoZ
Member
Let's be honest. Xbox hardware is NOT long for this world. Their sales have been dwindling for years and their power move was to parlay it all into what we know today as "Game Pass" and buying studios left and right and so far it hasn't moved the needle, like at all. We know Microsoft and they won't continue to dump money into it forever unless they see a healthy return sooner or later. They will most likely just be a "Game Pass" company at some point and will be on Sony, Apple, PC and every other platform it can be. It's sad but it is what it is. We've seen it coming for a while and we know behind the scenes MS doesn't plan on refreshing their consles this gen either which will be a disaster if Sony puts one out and they do not. I know a lot could have had changed between those leaked emails and now but if they hold true then that's bad. That being said, if it means I get to play Halo without having to buy another Xbox then I'm cool with that.
SRTtoZ
Member
Just wondering what you constitute as the "Xbox games library"? They've been going backwards for a while now. This isn't the team behind the classic Halo, Gears, Fable games anymore. They are a shell of themselves. I do however agree that their hardware is fantastic minus the launch Xbox One. The Xbox One X was sick and so are the Series X/S consoles (especially the X). The thing is, Xbox isn't teh same juggernaut it used to be especially in the states. Now they lose to Sony in their own territory and get whipped worldwide and it's as bad as it's ever been. They are actually in trouble and the next few years will decide their fate.
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ByWatterson
Member
now i listened to the defining dukes:
"those markets don't matter, CoD is saving us"
It was embarrassing. The two of them are an absolute joke and I'm frustrated they're even on LSM.
I would increase my Patreon if they would ditch the entire show and make a catch-all, platform agnostic one (to go alongside Sacred Symbols and Punching Up). Xbox simply isn't worthy of having a show if the only people you can get to host it are shill clowns.
gamepass has no future in its current form either. people are actively sick of subscription services.
add the fact that a monthly gaming sub is completely ridiculous idea for huge percent of populution, who play couple of games throughout the gen at most.
hell i'm hardcore and wouldnt stay monthly after i run out of my dirt cheap trick-stacked gamepass years.
wonder how these morons convinced themselves they can have billion subs.
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ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
I think hardware is stuck in a loop that no abount of billions can fix.
PS5 was so hot because people bought a lot of consoles and games on said consoles for PS4. For 2 years PS5 was not only the next-gen machine, but a good PS4 Very Pro. Physical and digital libraries that are 99% compatable is not something you can esily throw out, especially with the current economy.
Now look at EU XBS/PS5 ratios, hell, even at NPD. No CoD will force people to anandon their hoarded libraries after the PS4/PS5 gen. Microsoft chose a crucial console cycles to lose and hardware will never recover from these miscalculations.
PS5 was so hot because people bought a lot of consoles and games on said consoles for PS4. For 2 years PS5 was not only the next-gen machine, but a good PS4 Very Pro. Physical and digital libraries that are 99% compatable is not something you can esily throw out, especially with the current economy.
Now look at EU XBS/PS5 ratios, hell, even at NPD. No CoD will force people to anandon their hoarded libraries after the PS4/PS5 gen. Microsoft chose a crucial console cycles to lose and hardware will never recover from these miscalculations.
YeulEmeralda
Member
Sony gets the casual audience with single player cinematic games.
GaaS is for hardcore no lifers or teenagers. I remember back in the day Destiny 2 was basically a second job.
GaaS is for hardcore no lifers or teenagers. I remember back in the day Destiny 2 was basically a second job.