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[Connxtion]

“damned if you do and damned if you don’t” comes to mind here.

If it’s locked 30FPS it’s an issue & if it was unlocked and didn’t hit 60FPS consistently it would be an issue.

No matter what Bethesda/MS do they would be at fault.

Just enjoy the game for what it is and have as much fun as you can

Edit:
Spelling

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

A number of them on twitter, responding to that Dreamcast twat who stated the game is unfinished. One of them even working for Sony Santa Monica


You know this how exactly? Just speculation based on a game you haven't even played yet?

Name just one game that has similar complex systems that is 60 Fps on console. The closest I can think of is No Man's Sky, but that lacks a large number of features that Starfield has. Even No Man's Sky is not a stable 60 Fps on either console, guess they are incompetent as well.

I never claimed anyone was "incompetent", so please don't put words in my mouth. Post the SSM developer's quote. You can't claim it's 100% impossible to reach 60 fps when we have other games on the market to compare it, and where the devs themselves have stated it's not these supposedly "complex systems" which is why they went with 30 fp . Are the systems so much more complex than their previous games? If so, how, and why does that limit 30 fps? It's one thing to be difficult to create, it's another to claim it's technically restrictive.

 

[TheKremlinBossMan]

A number of them on twitter, responding to that Dreamcast twat who stated the game is unfinished. One of them even working for Sony Santa Monica


You know this how exactly? Just speculation based on a game you haven't even played yet?

Name just one game that has similar complex systems that is 60 Fps on console. The closest I can think of is No Man's Sky, but that lacks a large number of features that Starfield has. Even No Man's Sky is not a stable 60 Fps on either console, guess they are incompetent as well.

What does no man sky lack? Honest question. It has features that Starfield does not. NMS has base building and combat. It has ship battles and settlements. It has mining and planetary exploration. It also allows you to fly your ship in and out of orbit at any point on any planet which Starfield has not yet shown and is reportedly a missing feature. It also has mechs and aliens. The only thing I can think of that Starfield has that it doesn't is a shiny coat of paint and the creation engine's features. Again I'm all in and day 1 I just don't see what it's doing that NMS and Scam Citizen aren't.

 

[RespawnX]

Probably much better than this depending on CPU. I just ran this, DLSS performance at 4k everything maxed without path tracing. Still hits over 30fps. Can knock it down to 1440p and get over 60fps everything maxed.

I doubt Starfield will have higher graphical fidelity than Cyberpunk with everything cranked up.

This is also why I think console target should be 1440p/1800p you could get the visual quality up much higher than it currently is while doing more things with physics and keep a good framerate.

They indeed made the assumption in the video that the CPU is the problem here. The CPU simply can't deliver the performance for a stable 60 FPS under all circumstances. The comparison with Star Citizen is okay. However, various tests have been done in the past that indicate that server optimization is indeed a significant part of the problem. It remains to be seen whether they will deliver a 40 FPS patch or variable FPS, it would be nice. For now, however, only PCs should have the necessary overhead.

To your point: Cyberpunk is nowhere near as complex and CPU-heavy. Furthermore, we all know how crappy DLSS quality looks, the equivalent to the determined resolution would be Balanced.

 

[feynoob]

Man, some of you guys need to touch grass. Its freaking video game. Its not like having a 30 fps locked down is the end of the world, geez.

 

[Synless]

as soon as you turn the camera the actual temporal fidelity drops to 720p if you run at 30fps.
30fps fidelity modes are literally just good for still images.

and paired back settings are usually not noticeable unless you know how the game looks in the other modes. the paired back settings in R&C would never be noticeable without the exact knowledge of what is different.

You’re telling me R&C runs at 720p resolution when I move the camera while I’m fidelity mode? I’m calling bullshit, show me the receipts.

 

[Gudji]

A number of them on twitter, responding to that Dreamcast twat who stated the game is unfinished. One of them even working for Sony Santa Monica


You know this how exactly? Just speculation based on a game you haven't even played yet?

Name just one game that has similar complex systems that is 60 Fps on console. The closest I can think of is No Man's Sky, but that lacks a large number of features that Starfield has. Even No Man's Sky is not a stable 60 Fps on either console, guess they are incompetent as well.

 

[Zathalus]

I never claimed anyone was "incompetent", so please don't put words in my mouth. Post the SSM developer's quote. You can't claim it's 100% impossible to reach 60 fps when we have other games on the market to compare it, and where the devs themselves have stated it's not these supposedly "complex systems" which is why they went with 30 fp . Are the systems so much more complex than their previous games? If so, how, and why does that limit 30 fps? It's one thing to be difficult to create, it's another to claim it's technically restrictive.

Can't find the others as the original tweet was deleted. He did follow up though.



I'm still waiting on those other games that have just as complex systems.

 

[TheKremlinBossMan]

They indeed made the assumption in the video that the CPU is the problem here. The CPU simply can't deliver the performance for a stable 60 FPS under all circumstances. The comparison with Star Citizen is okay. However, various tests have been done in the past that indicate that server optimization is indeed a significant part of the problem. It remains to be seen whether they will deliver a 40 FPS patch or variable FPS, it would be nice. For now, however, only PCs should have the necessary overhead.

To your point: Cyberpunk is nowhere near as complex and CPU-heavy. Furthermore, we all know how crappy DLSS quality looks, the equivalent to the determined resolution would be Balanced.

Ray tracing is both GPU and CPU intensive which is why I pumped it all the way up in this example but I agree with your point.
Also agree with the DLSS perf and quality hit but I was also trying to keep the framerate somewhat respectable. With Balanced DLSS and 2080ti you get a true cinematic 24fps. LOL said that shit in Mighty Keef voice 24 eff piss.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Can't find the others as the original tweet was deleted. He did follow up though.



I'm still waiting on those other games that have just as complex systems.

He's not saying a 60 fps mode is impossible. He is saying it's a developer choice (of course it is, like anything else), which is what I have been saying all along.

But honestly, many gamers would PREFER to have their choice rather than the devs just give them 30 fps alone, even if it means less fidelity.

 

[TheKremlinBossMan]

Man, some of you guys need to touch grass. Its freaking video game. Its not like having a 30 fps locked down is the end of the world, geez.

I think it is completely fine in this type of game. It isn't a twitch shooter or fighting game. Heck it isn't even competitive.

 

[Zathalus]

He's not saying a 60 fps mode is impossible. He is saying it's a developer choice (of course it is, like anything else), which is what I have been saying all along.

But honestly, many gamers would PREFER to have their choice rather than the devs just give them 30 fps alone, even if it means less fidelity.

Of course it's a developer choice. Can Starfield be made to run at 60 Fps? Almost certainly yes. Can it be done without impacting or heavily changing the games features and design as Bethesda wants it, well according to Bethesda it cannot. Considering the creation engine can be very demanding on the CPU (why do you think settlements in Fallout 4 were so restricted on consoles) I'm inclined to believe them.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Of course it's a developer choice. Can Starfield be made to run at 60 Fps? Almost certainly yes. Can it be done without impacting or heavily changing the games features and design as Bethesda wants it, well according to Bethesda it cannot. Considering the creation engine can be very demanding on the CPU (why do you think settlements in Fallout 4 were so restricted on consoles) I'm inclined to believe them.

As Bethesda has stated, it's about fidelity and visuals and resolution; not "game systems or features".

 

[adamsapple]

As Bethesda has stated, it's about fidelity and visuals and resolution; not "game systems or features".

"Fidelity" is not just visuals or IQ.

Fidelity is also things like making sure the object pop-in, distant details are cohesive and a lot more.

No need to be so reductive.

 

[Zathalus]

As Bethesda has stated, it's about fidelity and visuals and resolution; not "game systems or features".

Ah, selective reading strikes again.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

"Fidelity" is not just visuals.

Fidelity is also things like making sure the object pop-in, distant details are cohesive and a lot more.

No need to be so reductive.

object pop in isn't a gameplay feature.

Those that prefer 60 fps would gladly take some extra pop in for added framerate.

 

[adamsapple]

object pop in isn't a gameplay feature.

Those that prefer 60 fps would gladly take some extra pop in for added framerate.

A notable reduction in world detail, geometry, lighting etc will impact their intended design and look.

They might pull out a cut back mode a few months later like Requiem did, but using that game as an example, as someone whose played the game already, there's just too much cut out of the Performance mode for me to want to play it that way.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

A notable reduction in world detail, geometry, lighting etc will impact their intended design and look.

They might pull out a cut back mode a few months later like Requiem did, but using that game as an example, as someone whose played the game already, there's just too much cut out of the Performance mode for me to want to play it that way.

Most games that run at 60 fps "impact the design and look", some significantly, and yet....many people still choose those modes.

I don't think we are disagreeing here though. They could make a 60 fps mode and it would not limit their gameplay system ambitions. There's only so much resources and they decided to optimize for 30 because optimizing for 60 takes a lot of effort and maybe they don't have the luxury of time.

 

[SF Kosmo]

I completely agree that having options is alway good. I think it's always been an unmet demand for 60 FPS games on consoles, but it's only been recently that meaning those demands have even been feasible. Even if it was from cross gen games. Finally, we got to taste the smoothness PC players have enjoyed since the the early 2000's(?). Who would ever want to go back to shit SANDWICHES?

But I understand everything comes with sacrifices, and it's not fair to force my preference of sacrifices on other people. So I think giving people the option to select a graphics or performance mode is a good compromise. Maybe even having devs concidering reaching for 60 fps on current gen consoles will result in better running games in general. A rising tide lifts all boats.

When games are GPU bound, which is most of the time, then yeah you can always scale back on graphics and resolution and make a performance mode.

But when frame times are CPU bottlenecked it isn't so simple. It might just not be possible to achieve without changes that impact actual gameplay or how the underlying engine works.

Of course you can always give people an unlocked framerate and let them deal with it and some people would prefer that. But let's not kid ourselves, it's just as bad in a slightly different way.

 

[Mr Moose]

It's FSR2 at 1440p so in FSR2 quality mode that would be roughly 940p I think... or something close to that

It is? I thought it was meant to be 1440p then FSR to 4k

 

[adamsapple]

It's FSR2 at 1440p so in FSR2 quality mode that would be roughly 940p I think... or something close to that

FF16 ? Another channel on YT said the Perf mode is 1080p reconstructed to 1440p and Quality mode is 1440p reconstructed to 2160p.

 

[01011001]

You’re telling me R&C runs at 720p resolution when I move the camera while I’m fidelity mode? I’m calling bullshit, show me the receipts.

not the game. the perceived fidelity of a 4K TV running 30fps games with fast camera pans. and if you then also have the game's own motion blur on its basically just soup of random pixels.

a clean picture in motion is way more important than a clean picture in static shots.

 

[01011001]

FF16 ? Another channel on YT said the Perf mode is 1080p reconstructed to 1440p and Quality mode is 1440p reconstructed to 2160p.

I thought it was 1440p with FSR2
I mean the end results would basically be the same I assume either way.

 

[nemiroff]

By your logic neither would they play BGS games (on console) because it's unplayable:



Funny how a specific game can make 30fps playable for you as long as you can stack 100 sandwiches. You know if it were actually by some miracle the fact that the PS3/360 skyrim ability to keep pointless objects wherever you like preventing it, you can even limit that on console to give the option of a 60fps mode. This isn't a necessity to the game.

Listen, I don't play on console, I play my games on a 5950x and a RTX4090 on a 240Hz monitor. Thus after years and years getting used to high framerates 30fps is unplayable TO ME. But this what you dragged into this thread as a red herring has nothing to do with what we're discussing. So I don't know why the fuck you thought you caught me in a gotcha moment

What we're discussing is a simple concept of a resource budget balanced and developed for a specific platform, for a particular vision, and for a contemporary time and expectations tailored to what the game is; An RPG where data/persistence CPU heavy type mechanics is at the core and all of it contributes to a heavily fluxuating framerate on the console. And as has been said, this is hinting on the fact that it's not even as simple as reducing the resolution to 720p to get to a stable 60 - On console. In this case it's clear that Todd made the right decision, and a pretty good motion blur even helps alleviate things a bit.

 

[chessy_08]

I like how people doubt 60fps in a open world RPGs but games like horizon 2 do it just fine while being a open world rpg with better visuals

 

[angrod14]

The only reason they're locking the framerate to 30 is because visuals sell more than framerate. It's marketing. If it was the other way around they would've designed the game from the ground up around a performance mode.

Insomniac: 60FPS no more

Insomniac Games is "probably" going to turn its back on its long-standing commitment to 60FPS gameplay for its Ratchet …

www.eurogamer.net

It's unfortunate but with this mentality we're never overcoming 30 fps for good, ever. And no, "buy a PC" is not an alternative, it's a shitshow of ports, not comfortable for plug and play/couch gaming, and lacks many exclusive titles.

 

[PeteBull]

There is no timestamped. What point of the video?

Sorry edited/corrected it, no idea why it didnt copy properly first time, point of video is we get professional techtubers not taking dev's world for granted, aka 4k30fps for xsx, and its good, since we see in the vid we get native res 1296p, which is 60% on both axis, which in turn is 36% of pixles vs native 4k.
It simply gives us more info so we arent blind sheep that belive in devs every word(and lie ).

 

[PeteBull]

Love it how people are clinging to anything that might bring this game down. The presentation was stellar, one of the best ever.

Fingers crossed they don't shit the bed come release. I could go either way right now but the amount of people wanting it to fail is just sad. Great games are good for everyone, regardless of platform.

We got tons of gameplay, but what we saw in the showcase wasnt flawless, as mentioned by DF those npc faces/animations looked far from good, to put it lightly, and game, at least in its current state, doesnt run at 4k nor even stable 30fps.
No1 saying its gonna be bad game, we just talking about visuals here and confronting what was shown to us with dev's lies (same thing about framerate where todd howard said it runs nicely on series s, we all remember what it means back fomr cp2077 launch ;P

They still got 4 months to optimise/work on it and get it better, after that would could get day1 patch and even after launch patches for weeks/months.
My point is, to not take dev's words about 4k30 for granted, coz footage, at least the one that was shown to us, isnt that- ofc game still looks amazing in most scenarios and i will play it extensively like i did with all bethesda games starting back from morrowind on my og xbox(the one with duke controller ;p).

 

[Mr Moose]

I like how people doubt 60fps in a open world RPGs but games like horizon 2 do it just fine while being a open world rpg with better visuals

Do you mean Horizon Forbidden West? Different engines, different teams, different goals.
I hope they can at least do a 40fps mode if they can't do a 60, but its clearly a taxing game/engine (30fps/1296p/RTGI).

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

So it' upscaled 4k and not native.

Yea every current gen game that pushes consoles is.

 

[93xfan]

Are you seriously trying to claim that Bethesda games have such peerless quality control that an NPC has *never* disappeared?

Anyway, CP2077 sold 20M and despite the buggy launch the game felt pretty good despite perhaps being more limited in certain ways and things “disappearing”

Nice straw man.

In CO2077, they disappear by design seemingly when you spin the camera. That’s a far cry from a glitch. I’ve never known you to be this poor at arguing. Let’s give it a day and see if you come to your senses.

 

[Three]

Listen, I don't play on console, I play my games on a 5950x and a RTX4090 on a 240Hz monitor.. Thus after years and years getting used to high framerates 30fps is unplayable TO ME. But what you dragged into this thread as a red herring has nothing to do with what we're discussing. So I don't know why the fuck you thought you caught me in a gotcha moment

It isn't a red herring as much as it is just pointing out that the importance of a game being unplayable to you goes away and became a good decision for BGS to you because you have a possible bigger budget for stacking pointless items?

What we're discussing is a simple concept of a resource budget balanced for a specific console, for a particular vision, and for a contemporary time and expectations tailored to what the game is; An RPG where data/persistence CPU heavy type mechanics is at the core and all of it contributes to a heavily fluxuating framerate on the console. And has been said, this is hinting on the fact that it's not even as simple as reducing the resolution to 720p to get to a stable 60 - On console.

CPU heavy type mechanics of which examples would be nice is one thing but data/persistence is another. You were saying you're happy for the console game to be what you considered months ago to be 'unplayable' 30fps as long as you can stack a set amount of pointless objects. something that has been possible since PS3/360. That you're glad that he wasn't designing games for removing the ability to stack 100 sandwichs or weapons to make a higher fps option.

I agree with you that the game isn't guaranteed to hit 60fps with lowered resolution but people are coming up with bizarre reasons for the framerate. A bottleneck which can very well be poor optimisation, which isn't outside of the realm of possibility, especially for Bethesda. People keep saying objects remain but they've done so for generations and I've not seen anything to justify the framerate drop from it.

Does that mean whatever budget is set at some point when exceeded things will start disappearing or that it will go sub 30fps the more and more objects that clutter the place over time? The cap doesn't make sense for what people are saying because it's not the cause. Even hypothetically if we assume it is for that reason is it really worth always having an "unplayable" low framerate throughout the entire game so that the guns that dropped on the floor that you didn't pick up remain on the floor when you've gone to some other planet?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Nice straw man.

In CO2077, they disappear by design seemingly when you spin the camera. That’s a far cry from a glitch. I’ve never known you to be this poor at arguing. Let’s give it a day and see if you come to your senses.

And how much does this degrade the RPG experience of CP2077? Is it worth not having 60 fps?

 

[SlimySnake]

We got tons of gameplay, but what we saw in the showcase wasnt flawless, as mentioned by DF those npc faces/animations looked far from good, to put it lightly, and game, at least in its current state, doesnt run at 4k nor even stable 30fps.
No1 saying its gonna be bad game, we just talking about visuals here and confronting what was shown to us with dev's lies (same thing about framerate where todd howard said it runs nicely on series s, we all remember what it means back fomr cp2077 launch ;P

They still got 4 months to optimise/work on it and get it better, after that would could get day1 patch and even after launch patches for weeks/months.
My point is, to not take dev's words about 4k30 for granted, coz footage, at least the one that was shown to us, isnt that- ofc game still looks amazing in most scenarios and i will play it extensively like i did with all bethesda games starting back from morrowind on my og xbox(the one with duke controller ;p).

Dont bother with clarky, he will just leave a LOL emoji on your reply on your reasonable reply as if you said the dumbest fucking thing ever.

And yes, this game isnt even 1440p and these guys are marketing it like a 4k game. They arent the only ones, i remember every game at launch was marketed as a 4k game and it turned out to be that the majority of games were using dynamic res that dropped all the way down to 1440p. AC Valhalla performed so badly on the xsx that they had to bring the DRS lower end to 1080p.

MS needs to just man up and say its 30 fps because we are pushing boundaries. Everything comes at a cost. you want 60 fps? we are releasing it on PC and you can play it there.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

I know that. I just thought that the 30 fps cap was to somehow allow native 4k.

No because Bethesda games hammer the CPU not the GPU. In other words this games heavy workloads are CPU workloads not GPU ones.

 

[Mr Moose]

And how much does this degrade the RPG experience of CP2077? Is it worth not having 60 fps?

Is Cyberpunk a RPG? Well whatever it is the AI is dog shit, no matter if its 30fps with RT or 60fps.

No because Bethesda games hammer the CPU not the GPU. In other words this games heavy workloads are CPU workloads not GPU ones.

This is probably both. It's 1296p.

 

[SlimySnake]

And how much does this degrade the RPG experience of CP2077? Is it worth not having 60 fps?

lol why are you against systems driven gameplay all of a sudden? i thought you were a zelda botw fan. you want more linear fucking horizon style RPGs or actual systems driven stuff from bethesda? who cares if you cant see whats under the hood? its there aiding the systems even if it isnt quantifiable.

It's not just about sandwiches or shit you can see on screen. bethesda games are just richer and deeper than stuff like horizon, ubisoft games, and square enix RPGs.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

Too bad it looks nothing like native 4k...

If you want native 4k you play on PC that's just how these things go. Consoles will always struggle since the have limited resources and devs don't prioritize such attributes.

 

[93xfan]

And how much does this degrade the RPG experience of CP2077? Is it worth not having 60 fps?

I know, I know, they each have sci-fi in them, so this comparison is very valid.

I mean it’s practically the same game, so you can essentially play Starfield right now.

When you make a follow up to your tech analysis, title it “How to play Starfield NOW!” People will naturally be skeptical, but when they click on the video, they’ll no doubt be won over by your logic. Same game (sci-fi), weapons, planet(s), etc.

How different could they really be?

 

[Del_X]

I don't buy this 30 fps. You can drop native resolution, use DRS, checkerboard render and now even FSR 2. You can use dynamic between to low/medium/high settings, dynamic LOD...

PS4/Xbox One would be fine, but we're now in an age of amazing tools to mitigate the framerate. The game don't need to be native 4k, but neither 30 fps.

Will PC version runs at 30 fps with resolutions like 1920x1080p with weaker CPUs than Series X too?

Just use DRS on the CPU bro…

It’s gonna have a hard time maintaining 30fps with weaker CPUs, yes.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

lol why are you against systems driven gameplay all of a sudden? i thought you were a zelda botw fan. you want more linear fucking horizon style RPGs or actual systems driven stuff from bethesda? who cares if you cant see whats under the hood? its there aiding the systems even if it isnt quantifiable.

It's not just about sandwiches or shit you can see on screen. bethesda games are just richer and deeper than stuff like horizon, ubisoft games, and square enix RPGs.

Im not against system driven games. I just don’t think these systems are holding this game back from achieving 60fps.

And systems aren’t necessarily more ambitious just because you have a lot of choice

The Bethesda games I’ve played have pretty superficial systems that give the player an abundance of choice but where I don’t really feel better off for it, so I actually would prefer a more focused game that has far better core mechanics and presentation style compared to rather middling gameplay and really weak NPC character interactions. It just looks and plays pretty goofy. For some, that’s part of the charm

Starfield has only somewhat improved these aspects but I’m still excited to play it even though it won’t likely be at the top of my personal list this year. I can see why some like that stuff, it’s just not what I prioritize in games. To each their own

 

[SlimySnake]

Im not against system driven games. I just don’t think these systems are holding this game back from achieving 60fps.

And systems aren’t necessarily more ambitious just because you have a lot of choice

The Bethesda games I’ve played have pretty superficial systems that give the player an abundance of choice but where I don’t really feel better off for it, so I actually would prefer a more focused game that has far better core mechanics and presentation style compared to rather middling gameplay and really weak NPC character interactions. It just looks and plays pretty goofy. For some, that’s part of the charm

Starfield has only somewhat improved these aspects but I’m still excited to play it even though it won’t likely be at the top of my personal list this year. I can see why some like that stuff, it’s just not what I prioritize in games. To each their own

I think they have taken a huge leap forward with their visuals or presentation style with this game. Its up there with the best of the best at E3. The combat looks very fast and responsive despite being 30 fps, and we both know it will have deep RPG systems enhancing the core shooting mechanics compared to say your average first person shooter. Id say they have improved A LOT without having sacrificed what I will concede might indeed be superficial.

Even DF was like they didnt expect it to look this good because bethesda games typically lag way behind AAA open world RPGs in terms of graphics fidelity and core combat mechanics. Im suprrised you arent seeing the upgrades here. Though after seeing people downplay Avatar's graphics on gaf these last few days, I am convinced the world has turned upside down since Sunday and im now the one with low graphics standards.

P.S I am like you in that I prioritize other stuff like storytelling, cutscenes, pure Japanese action combat, and thats why playing just 2 hours of FF16 convinced me that Starfield and Zelda will not stand a chance against this game for my personal GOTY of the year. That said, I am glad that WRPGs like Starfield are doing something different even if I wont fully exploit those systems.

 

[Gaiff]

And how much does this degrade the RPG experience of CP2077? Is it worth not having 60

Seriously? Are you that fucking dishonest? Initially, I could literally turn around in Cyberpunk and NPCs would disappear and appear out of thin air (I think their range was increased in a patch) and you're telling me this doesn't impact immersion? Yes, I would take 30fps over NPCs vanishing almost in front of my face. Assuming complex gameplay systems and everything else holds back 60fps, then I'd 100% take that over it. Thankfully, I game on PC so I don't have to worry about that but when we tell you something as egregious as NPCs disappearing happens and you just go "so what?", it tells us exactly where you stand.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

Is Cyberpunk a RPG? Well whatever it is the AI is dog shit, no matter if its 30fps with RT or 60fps.

This is probably both. It's 1296p.

Yes but this game isn't doing anything crazy with the GPU like it is with the CPU, they are simply not letting those GPU resources go to waste on raw resolution instead opting for a balance of graphical features and resolution. On PC you will see that this game will not push your GPU like path traced Cyberpunk or Dying Light 2 RT. Since it is a Bethesda sandbox RPG you can expect it to push CPUs more so.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I think they have taken a huge leap forward with their visuals or presentation style with this game. Its up there with the best of the best at E3. The combat looks very fast and responsive despite being 30 fps, and we both know it will have deep RPG systems enhancing the core shooting mechanics compared to say your average first person shooter. Id say they have improved A LOT without having sacrificed what I will concede might indeed be superficial.

Even DF was like they didnt expect it to look this good because bethesda games typically lag way behind AAA open world RPGs in terms of graphics fidelity and core combat mechanics. Im suprrised you arent seeing the upgrades here. Though after seeing people downplay Avatar's graphics on gaf these last few days, I am convinced the world has turned upside down since Sunday and im now the one with low graphics standards.

P.S I am like you in that I prioritize other stuff like storytelling, cutscenes, pure Japanese action combat, and thats why playing just 2 hours of FF16 convinced me that Starfield and Zelda will not stand a chance against this game for my personal GOTY of the year. That said, I am glad that WRPGs like Starfield are doing something different even if I wont fully exploit those systems.

Agreed, no arguments from me on Starfield’s visuals. Awesome art design, high fidelity texture tessellation, and global illumination have a very striking impact. It’s up there with the best looking current gen titles.

Only thing that’s still a big disappointment is NPC designs and animation. It’s barely improved and looks in stark contrast to the rest of the visual package.

Again, I just think they could have developed a 60fps mode, but they have limited time and resources so instead opted to just focus on 30fps. Which I’m personally fine with

Hopefully the combat holds up and has enough variety, that’s my biggest concern, thankfully the mechanics look good though and a big improvement over fallout. The systems I’m less sure about, I just hope it’s well balanced to make the mining, base building, and crafting worth it all, otherwise I’ll lose interest in a huge chunk of the game pretty quickly

Btw. - I enjoyed BOTW/TotK but they are not my tip top favorite Zelda games. The systems are unique and fun and I’m glad there’s that diversity but I absolute prefer LTTP/OoT

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

I like how people doubt 60fps in a open world RPGs but games like horizon 2 do it just fine while being a open world rpg with better visuals

Horizon FW doesn't push CPUs, neither did the 1st game. Both games are designed to run on the anemic AMD Jaguar CPU that the PS4 possesses at a 30fps framerate, of course the PS5 with it's massively more powerful AMD Zen 2 CPU can double the framerate the PS4's Jaguar can do on Horizon 2.

Starfield *is* heavy on the CPU as most sandbox/simulation games are. Why? Because the workloads sandbox/sims need to get done can only be done by the CPU not the GPU on top of that most of those workloads can't be scaled down because otherwise either the game or the game design breaks for example reducing physics complexity can break game interactions.

 

[mansoor1980]

all bottlenecks will be revealed once the PC version is out

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

Im not against system driven games. I just don’t think these systems are holding this game back from achieving 60fps.

When a dev can make a systems driven game equivalent to a Bethesda RPG at 60fps on console then we can talk. Hell if anybody can get Morrowind on OG Xbox, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Skyrim on 360/PS3 or Fallout 4 on base PS4/Xbox One running at 60fps stable on console then we can talk.

Not once has any of this happened btw, the closest we got was Kingdom Come Deliverance and that game ran WAAAAAY worse on consoles than a Bethesda game. So yea.. I think the gaming industry has spoken.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Yes, I would take 30fps over NPCs vanishing almost in front of my face.

I waited to play the game post patch, it’s in a pretty great state now

I’m not defending how it was on launch

 

[Viking Warrior]

if it was actual 1296p (raw, output) it would look like dogshit. the reason it looks good is because they still use 4K lods+assets WHICH has their OWN rendering load (which is quite heavy) AND looks good.

people are simply too hardwired to assume things based on shader resolution. i have no idea how we can change narrative but here we are.

Starfield as shown at the showcase was running on PC NOT xbox,

Show me examples of this supposedly amazing NPC design in action that should limit the game to 30fps?

I really don’t care that they have their own stats

All I remember from Skyrim was a bunch of mostly wooden and unconvincing NPCs

Don't eat the BS that you are being fed about Starfield, nothing but fanboy fantasy's.