Neo_game
Member
This won't be the first game that is underpeforming on consoles. But for the moment let us give them benifit of doubt and wait for the release.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Digital Foundry: Starfield Tech Breakdown - 30FPS, Visuals, Rendering Tech + Game Impressions
This won't be the first game that is underpeforming on consoles. But for the moment let us give them benifit of doubt and wait for the release.
March Climber
Member
This will be a great game to play on consoles once it's cleaned up a year+ from now with patches in the GoTY edition.
CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
They do seem really stupid, but I have to wonder if he's just playing at being willfully ignorant.
By your logic neither would they play BGS games (on console) because it's unplayable:
Funny how a specific game can make 30fps playable for you as long as you can stack 100 sandwiches. You know if it were actually by some miracle the fact that the PS3/360 skyrim ability to keep pointless objects wherever you like preventing it, you can even limit that on console to give the option of a 60fps mode. This isn't a necessity to the game.
Last edited:
James Sawyer Ford
Member
No offense but you have zero clue about how modern game development works
If you think Bethesda games are all hand crafted you are clueless, doubly so about Starfield
The vast majority of it is procedural. That’s not a slight against it, it’s just facts
Last edited:
bender
What time is it?
Fuz
Banned
Mr Moose
Member
If it's a "good" 30fps, it'll be fine, if it's a shit 30fps like Witcher 3... 
That game feels horrible to play in that mode.
I won't be getting it for console but I hope they do a 40fps mode.
Character models look like ass but are a step up for Bethesda, the rest of it looks pretty good.
That game feels horrible to play in that mode.I won't be getting it for console but I hope they do a 40fps mode.
Character models look like ass but are a step up for Bethesda, the rest of it looks pretty good.
Last edited:
Silent Viper
Banned
Guys watch video and understand yourself. Dont judge based on title of thread lol.
DF actually praising the game and explain in detailed.
Star citizen example explains everything why its 30fps.
DF actually praising the game and explain in detailed.
Star citizen example explains everything why its 30fps.
Last edited:
Little Chicken
Member
I played the FFXVI demo at 30 fps and it was fine.
Until the last fight where it spent most of its time between 15-25fps.
diffusionx
Gold Member
The game is running at like 1296 with FSR, at 30fps. Even assuming they're just capping it for consistency and they can get 30-50, we aren't talking about a huge difference in terms of resolution, to the point where you will get locked 60fps.
I dunno, I'm actually glad that Bethesda chose graphics settings they feel best represent their game in all facets, and you buy the game, and you experience it the way they chose to present it. It is almost like the studio, as videogame developers and designers, designed and developed a videogame.
Last edited:
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I think you guys are either willfully or ignorantly conflating the point. They've already said it's a deliberate choice to maintain fidelity and consistency. If a big portion of the game runs better because it isn't as densely populated with things and the other half can't, it makes more sense to lock to a lower bound for consistency.
Exactly. The video is mostly a gushing praise of the game.
And yes I know a couple of you *cough
DeepEnigma
cough* are already chomping at the bits to get the "script" comments ready (you know you are ) but go and watch their recent Spider Man 2 coverage, they lavished praises at the game and the improvements they saw despite that also being a 30 FPS presentation.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Nobody is conflating anything, nobody is slighting the game for being mostly procedurally generated. We are simply pointing out that it’s mostly procedurally generated, which is similar to many other open world games
To claim it’s a “larger world” and therefore requires 30fps is false, which was the point being made
Last edited:
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Again, your opinions are either downright dumb or ignorant. But ignorance is no excuse, especially when you’re trying to talk from such a position of knowledge and you’ve also been corrected repeatedly throughout the thread.
Maybe a vast majority of the game is procedurally generated. That’s fine, there are over a thousand worlds. But the part of your post that was dumb was when you said a vast majority of the hand crafted stuff is for the campaign. That’s never been how Bethesda RPGs work. There’s always hours upon hours of side content and world (universe in this case) building content. I have well over 100 hours in Fallout 4 and the main quest takes less than thirty hours.
There’s definitely people talking out of their butts on both sides in this thread, no one really knows how advanced the game will be or how much quality “hand crafted” content there will be, but you’re definitely on the lower tier of the posts with your nonsense. Your posts fly directly in the face of decades of experience we all have with these games.
You tried to praise Red Dead 2 for having open ended mission design, when as great as that game is, the very limited pass/fail mission structure is widely considered it’s biggest flaw.
Again, relax, let the game come to you. You’re getting the ball and jacking up garbage three’s nonstop. You aren’t Steph, you’re Corey Brewer.
TheKremlinBossMan
Banned
AMD Ryzen 9 3950X 16-Core Processor or better and 64.0 GB Ram probably gddr5 or better and you should be good to go for at least 1440 native at 60fps depending on your GPU. Might be able to hit 4k with DLSS again depending on GPU. Probably want a lot of memory on GPU as well I wouldn't touch a GPU with less than 12GB. So that limits where you'd start, 12GB 2080 TI overclocked with DLSS should play this thing. It can run Cyberpunk maxed with DLSS.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
It’s not an either or thing and you’re falsifying my argument to argue semantics
The hand crafted stuff is locations and areas where most of the main game content resides, and also where side content intersects. I never claimed there wouldn’t also be hand crafted areas for side content too
You folks are way too defensive about this stuff.
Fake
Member
Do you think Xbox Series X could run this game at 1920x1080p60?
As I mention before and got ignored for the member that quote me, they like to forget or ignore that consoles like NS, PS4/PS5, Xbox S/X have an advantage over PC because they have dedicated gaming API, ignoring most of the layers a normal OS have.
93xfan
Banned
Anxiously awaiting your in depth video. Maybe you could start off with your credentials, if there’s enough time to list them all.
Please leave the comments ON. No reason.
cash_longfellow
Member
Bruh…can’t even hit native 4k at 30fps…swear to God if this shit is filled with bugs I am personally done with Bethesda for good. Absolutely no excuse whatsoever.
Last edited:
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
That's a low resolution. Looking forward to finding out what the bottleneck is once we can test PC configurations. Hope my 5800X3D is enough for my desired settings. If not then it might time for an upgrade to AM5.
Last edited:
TheKremlinBossMan
Banned
I doubt they could hit 60fps even at 1080p but only because of the CPU's. I think a 2070 Super which is what they say is equivalent to Series X and PS5 could push this at 1440p without issue at 60fps but it depends on the CPU. The things that they have omitted from the game let you know it is heavily CPU bound and not so much GPU.
Hot take. I think the target frame rate for PS5 and Series X should be 1440p or 1800p at max. Pushing native 4k with the reconstruction techniques available today is a waste of processing power.
Last edited:
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I don't care about Spider-Man 2, that's irrelevant to the conversation. They were already caught and admitted to being fed from a MS dev what to say about a MS dev game in the past. Carry that console wat waterboy.I think you guys are either willfully or ignorantly conflating the point. They've already said it's a deliberate choice to maintain fidelity and consistency. If a big portion of the game runs better because it isn't as densely populated with things and the other half can't, it makes more sense to lock to a lower bound for consistency.
Exactly. The video is mostly a gushing praise of the game.
And yes I know a couple of you *cough
Chances are they will have the same thing happen with XSerie's highest profile game yet.
Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, remains to be seen. I just find the exact chosen words cute when this was supposedly filmed prior to that interview by Spencer.
Last edited:
R6Rider
Gold Member
Ha, I'm currently deciding between upgrading my current build to a 5800X3D (and 6700XT or 6800XT) or just spending a bit more now to go for AM5.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
You said a majority of the hand crafted stuff will be for the main campaign. That’s not how any of their previous games work. Now you’re shifting goal posts, a predictable but still laughable reaction.
You have like 30 posts in the thread. But yeah you’re right, other people are too defensive
Done feeding the troll. Have fun playing warrior for the next few months.
93xfan
Banned
I own an Xbox. I don’t go to the Spider-Man threads to trash that game.
Why are some of you so obsessed with Xbox, (and Bethesda since 2021)?
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Sure it is, I said “main campaign” meaning any of the missions where you’re not just randomly exploring
You just created a weak straw man argument for what? Is this going to somehow prove that 60 fps was impossible?
What exactly is being warriored about? I have the game preloaded day 1 on my SX and am looking forward to it, but I’m not going to put it up on a pedestal like some folks here claiming it’s the most technically demanding effort in human history since the Manhattan project and that’s why it runs at 30fps.
Those are just excuses. The game could run at 60 with concessions like any other game. It’s not a deal breaker for me, but the messaging rubs me the wrong way
Last edited:
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Jeeez, this game is going to be incredible fo those who are fans of Bethesda games...I think that's pretty obvious.
Looking forward to release and I advise anyone who has issues with the 30fps to play on PC
Looking forward to release and I advise anyone who has issues with the 30fps to play on PC
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
These games gonna keep getting more demanding on the CPU. Especially games that will be using raytracing. Take that Star Wars Outlaws for example. Its already confirmed by DF to be using raytraced lighting.
sendit
Member
Damn right it’s an anamoly, this is a massive game. Name one other game that compares. I’ll be playing this on the PC though, so none of your complaints apply.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Starfield really has the warriors riled up it seems. Sad.
lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
few days ago, i saw someone on twitter comparing starfield with FF16 and laughing at ff16 performance and praised starfield
something like
Starfield 4k 30 fps, ff16 900p 45-60fps
01011001
Banned
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Why the persecution complex?
I not ONCE trashed this game, at all. Even supported their choices and techniques used. My beef is with DF and a certain someone's selectivity. Which he has done since the PS4 era long before he joined DF.
But it's a wonder that a certain demographic has always taken DF backhands and equate it to their favorite brand's proxy battle to heart. I wonder why that is?
Now kindly take "the some of you obsession" and squat on it.
Last edited:
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Final fantasy xvi is 900p? What is it in quality mode?
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
I mean, not really surprising is it?
No, but I wish it was multiplat so we could talk about it normally instead of dozens of spectrum dwelling warrior posts muddying the waters.
01011001
Banned
It's FSR2 at 1440p so in FSR2 quality mode that would be roughly 940p I think... or something close to that
Last edited:
lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
i have no idea but that person mentioned that its "2k", not sure its bs or what.
i played in performance mode but yea it definitely isnt 4k dynamic but its still fine.
Synless
Member
Dude I can tell immediately, also there were additional graphical downgrades worse than resolution imo. If you can notice, great, I envy that. However the reality is it’s pretty noticeable to many of us.
01011001
Banned
It's instantly noticeable... but then you turn the camera and you know you made the only correct choice
Crispy Gamer
Member
Fanboys gonna fanboy, reconstruction is needed if we all want to see graphical leaps over last gen
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
A quick search it's 1080p in performance mode with no AF and lower effects it also drops to 40 fps in fights and is often in the 30s for the eikon fights.
Quality mode is 1440p upscale to 4k with AF and still has frame drops. This is of course the demo so we can see how the retail version is.
I expect we will see the same energy in that DF thread from the users in here. I wouldn't say 1440p is that much better than 1296p when you consider final fantasy 16 is in small corridors in the demo and tiny battle arenas compared to the scale of this game and a lot of npcs, per object physics etc. It's a lot more of a complicated game than ffxvi
We will find out in a week.
It's like I said, if it launches in a state anywhere near close to the demo, I personally feel the 60 fps mode was an after though for ffxvi. Its consistently outside of ps5s vrr window and even has big lurches in combat.
Last edited:
Synless
Member
I can’t get over the paired back foliage and particles on top of resolution. I do 30fps everytime there is a choice assuming the hit is more than just resolution.It's instantly noticeable... but then you turn the camera and you know you made the only correct choice
Zathalus
Member
Can it? How so? Bethesda says it cannot be done without compromising the current game design, and other devs agree with that statement. Since you are speaking so confidently I assume you are a game developer with experience shipping AAA games on the XSX, so can you please explain how this would be achieved? Without compromising the features that they demonstrated and what goes into every other Bethesda game.
While you are at it, and since it is apparently so easy to do, can you also be so kind as to point out how to get Flight Simulator at a stable 60 Fps while flying over a large city like Tokyo?
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Which devs have agreed with that statement?
I am not a game developer. I'm just a gamer who has played many games. Many of which with equal or better fidelity and similarly complex systems that have a 60 fps mode. And I'm not even a 60fps or bust person. I'd probably play Starfield @ 30 fps with crisper visuals since it's not a fast paced game and I like the added clarity over framerate fluidity. But for many people it now is a deal breaker.
I think this comes down to the fact that Bethesda simply did not want to expend the effort to optimize for a 60 fps experience and chose the easier path to make their launch date. That's fine, but it doesn't mean "their vision" (or whatever) was impossible at 60 fps like they seem to be suggesting.
01011001
Banned
as soon as you turn the camera the actual temporal fidelity drops to 720p if you run at 30fps.
30fps fidelity modes are literally just good for still images.
and paired back settings are usually not noticeable unless you know how the game looks in the other modes. the paired back settings in R&C would never be noticeable without the exact knowledge of what is different.
DaGwaphics
Member
Funnier still is that the entire premise behind how the content is created is completely irrelevant to both how the game performs and how it plays. LOL
The end results are king here and in all games. The who, what, and why, while sometimes interesting, doesn't really dictate player opinions about the final result. The Scam Citizen clip they included here on the railway was really all that needs to be said about the 30fps cap. It literally makes no difference how fast the game is in the easy spots if the harder to render areas are running lower. This is a Bethesda game on their engine and it shows major advancements over their last-gen efforts from what we can see so far. They used the cpu and gpu cycles gained by the new gen for those advancements rather than boosting to a 60fps target throughout.
You can say, well this dev did this and that one did that, but that's different developers and different games. This game doesn't run at 60fps on console (at least from what is being said so far).
Xbox players will be playing one of the most expansive RPGs ever released and enjoying every minute of it while internet trolls are too busy being concerned about the framerate we are playing at. PC master racers will be playing at 100fps with their 4090s and 13900ks and be laughing at everyone.
Last edited:
TheKremlinBossMan
Banned
Probably much better than this depending on CPU. I just ran this, DLSS performance at 4k everything maxed without path tracing. Still hits over 30fps. Can knock it down to 1440p and get over 60fps everything maxed.
I doubt Starfield will have higher graphical fidelity than Cyberpunk with everything cranked up.
This is also why I think console target should be 1440p/1800p you could get the visual quality up much higher than it currently is while doing more things with physics and keep a good framerate.
Last edited:
Zathalus
Member
A number of them on twitter, responding to that Dreamcast twat who stated the game is unfinished. One of them even working for Sony Santa Monica
You know this how exactly? Just speculation based on a game you haven't even played yet?
Name just one game that has similar complex systems that is 60 Fps on console. The closest I can think of is No Man's Sky, but that lacks a large number of features that Starfield has. Even No Man's Sky is not a stable 60 Fps on either console, guess they are incompetent as well.