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[Sentenza]

Here's a Youtube short I randomly crossed minutes ago.
The content is not strictly about videogames, it's just a woman commenting what she immediately associates to "preferred pronouns" appearing on CV presented for a job, but it ties neatly with a lot of past report we got about big companies having "super toxic work environment".

She Won't Hire They/Thems And I Agree

#theythem #trans #job #work #viral #unapologetic

www.youtube.com

I argued something similar in the past when we had threads about each individual case, but here's a woman summarizing perfectly well the answer to the recurring ERA questions "WHY EVERYONE IS GARBAGE?" and "IS TOO MUCH TO ASK TO LISTEN TO US?"
Well, because the issue isn't "everyone but you being garbage". It's that you are a bunch of whiny, entitled pricks actively looking to sedate your own misery by making everyone around you just as miserable. Because as the old saying goes "misery loves company".

Admittedly this a throw-away thread. it comes off as an "out of the blue" comment and something that was better to save as a casual tangent note, something to post the next time we got an headlines about "Women/minorities who felt objectified and patronized at the office", but still.

 

[Koppelthorn]

 

[ANDS]

Echo the above and I'll add there's an Off-Topic forum for these "spicy" takes on things that have ZERO to do with gaming.

EDIT: So that this isn't just snark, I'll add that its crazy disingenuous to just suggest - in an industry that is known for squeezing the absolute fuck out of its employees if it'll make a dollar - that "pronouns" are the root cause of workplace feedback.

. . .and not to give this thread any more juice but the folks in that are fucking ridiculous. "Facts?" No. You just barfed out a bunch of overgeneralized horseshit that matches your ideological bias.

Still, has nothing to do with gaming and is just another "anti-Woke" thread that should be in OT.

 

[Sentenza]

Echo the above and I'll add there's an Off-Topic forum for these "spicy" takes on things that have ZERO to do with gaming.

Oh, the "above" was making a point of any kind? I admittedly missed it.
I also EXPLICITLY pointed where the connection "with gaming" lies.

 

[Koppelthorn]

Oh, the "above" was making a point of any kind? I admittedly missed it.
I also EXPLICITLY pointed where the connection "with gaming" lies.

Oh right my point, something something feeling ashamed for your words and deeds

 

[Dural]

Here's a Youtube short I randomly crossed minutes ago.
The content is not strictly about videogames, it's just a woman commenting what she immediately associates to "preferred pronouns" appearing on CV presented for a job, but it ties neatly with a lot of past report we got about big companies having "super toxic work environment".

http://[URL]https://www.youtube.com/shorts/gbl82Ez6Sb8

[/URL]

I argued something similar in the past when we had threads about each individual case, but here's a woman summarizing perfectly well the answer to the recurring ERA questions "WHY EVERYONE IS GARBAGE?" and "IS TOO MUCH TO ASK TO LISTEN TO US?"
Well, because you are a bunch of whiny, entitled pricks actively looking to sedate your own misery by making everyone around you just as miserable. Because as the old saying goes "misery loves company".

Admittedly this a throw-away thread. it comes off as an "out of the blue" comment and something that was better to save as a casual tangent note, something to post the next time we got an headlines about "Women who felt objectified and patronized at the office", but still.

Yep, saw this last week and it's so true. You get just one of these "people" in your office and you're fucked, everyone is going to be walking on eggshells around them. They create the toxic work environment for everyone else then blame everyone else for not doing what they want.

 

[ParaSeoul]

Only time my work environment is toxic is after someone has mexican for lunch

That someone is usually me.

 

[Koppelthorn]

EDIT: So that this isn't just snark, I'll add that its crazy disingenuous to just suggest - in an industry that is known for squeezing the absolute fuck out of its employees if it'll make a dollar - that "pronouns" are the root cause of workplace feedback.

. . .and not to give this thread any more juice but the folks in that are fucking ridiculous. "Facts?" No. You just barfed out a bunch of overgeneralized horseshit that matches your ideological bias.

Still, has nothing to do with gaming and is just another "anti-Woke" thread that should be in OT.

^^^ Agree wholeheartedly with the above, and frankly in a corporate environment people with "pronouns" listed in their resumes are the last thing most worry about.

Some of the people in the comments even agree, and even though this reasoning is a little flawed, if your worried about people with little work ethic getting hired well...those people usually don't end up submitting resumes or getting past the interview process. It's a non issue. This thread and even the linked video have nothing to do with the game industry in particular, its just woke-bashing or whatever. I'm just glad those two people in the video aren't my manager, they don't seem like they would foster a productive work environment (especially the last lady...)

 

[Fbh]

Beyond just the pronoun thing I don't get why any company hires these hyper woke blue haired twitter obsesses individuals.
At this point you've got to know that's just asking for trouble. They will probably file a lot of complains with HR, have conflicts and problem with other employees, might possibly take medical leaves for mental health issues and will be the first to run to some Jason Shrier type individual to complain about what a horrible place your company is.

The first place I worked for hired a lot of young people and literally every single time there'd be some stupid internal conflict or I'd get a call on my day off asking me to come to work because "X called to say she had a panic attack and can't leave the house today" it was directly related to someone with this type of profile (and this was before the whole woke craze)

 

[Spaceman292]

yes im sure its all the womens fault. i also hate women hahahahha yes

 

[The Cockatrice]

Hmm, a bit offtopic but I agree that this may actually happen in gaming development, like imagine being a co-worker with a psycho they/them and always telling you what not to say or what not to do, I imagine it creates a very toxic environment and this in turn makes the games painful/longer to develop as well as ending up with bugs and whatnot due to the amount of stress your coworker(s) cause.

 

[calistan]

Probably over 70% of people where I work now include their "pronouns" after their names on their email signatures. It just seemed to happen overnight, nobody mandated it, and this isn't some superwoke company.

It's a really odd trend. Pretty much everyone who does it has an easily identifiable gender from their name, so it seems incredibly pointless and weird to write "Jennifer (she/her)" or David (he/him)". I won't have anything to do with it, I just hope they all get fed up with it soon.

 

[ANDS]

Probably over 70% of people where I work now include their "pronouns" after their names on their email signatures. It just seemed to happen overnight, nobody mandated it, and this isn't some superwoke company.

It's a really odd trend. Pretty much everyone who does it has an easily identifiable gender from their name, so it seems incredibly pointless and weird to write "Jennifer (she/her)" or David (he/him)". I won't have anything to do with it, I just hope they all get fed up with it soon.

And have any of those people run to HR with wild complaints or generally made the office environment one where folks are afraid to speak on casual topics for fear of annoying a "blue hair?" Do you even know the hair colors of these people?

Beyond just the pronoun thing I don't get why any company hires these hyper woke blue haired twitter obsesses individuals.
At this point you've got to know that's just asking for trouble. They will probably file a lot of complains with HR, have conflicts and problem with other employees, might possibly take medical leaves for mental health issues and will be the first to run to some Jason Shrier type individual to complain about what a horrible place your company is.

The first place I worked for hired a lot of young people and literally every single time there'd be some stupid internal conflict or I'd get a call on my day off asking me to come to work because "X called to say she had a panic attack and can't leave the house today" it was directly related to someone with this type of profile (and this was before the whole woke craze)

Well which is it? Is it because of the woke craze or isn't it? I mean there is a PRETTY obvious classifier that satisfies both of your scenarios, but I'm curious what your response is.

 

[ReBurn]

Probably over 70% of people where I work now include their "pronouns" after their names on their email signatures. It just seemed to happen overnight, nobody mandated it, and this isn't some superwoke company.

It's a really odd trend. Pretty much everyone who does it has an easily identifiable gender from their name, so it seems incredibly pointless and weird to write "Jennifer (she/her)" or David (he/him)". I won't have anything to do with it, I just hope they all get fed up with it soon.

It's becoming increasingly common. I deploy a lot of software on cloud platforms and I get invited to quite a few summits where these companies seek feedback or hype upgrades. Post-covid pretty much all of the headshots in the communication and itineraries have pronouns listed on them. And pretty consistently I rarely see anything besides he/him and she/her.

I think that at the influencer level in many companies they are including them to try to resonate with an audience and project a socially acceptable image. But I think when it comes to who actually moves into positions of influence they use the pronouns to filter people out because of an assumption that folks who put heavy emphasis on pronouns tend to come off as easily offended and risky to put in front of customers.

 

[Art The Clown]

Thankfully I live in an area where we just sit at the nurses station and laugh at these people at the end of the shift and shit in anyone who tries defending it.

The dream for me as a high schooler back in 2003 was to move to a “big city” and work at a hospital, now you couldn’t pay me to move to those deranged areas with the freakos.

 

[Sentenza]

yes im sure its all the womens fault. i also hate women hahahahha yes

Who said anything about "hating women"?
Are you mental?

 

[GymWolf]

Boy i'm so happy that here where i live this shit basically doesn't exist.

 

[German Hops]

 

[Fuz]

Boy i'm so happy that here where i live this shit basically doesn't exist.

Spoiler

ə

 

[GymWolf]

Spoiler

ə

Uh?

 

[dano1]

Probably over 70% of people where I work now include their "pronouns" after their names on their email signatures. It just seemed to happen overnight, nobody mandated it, and this isn't some superwoke company.

It's a really odd trend. Pretty much everyone who does it has an easily identifiable gender from their name, so it seems incredibly pointless and weird to write "Jennifer (she/her)" or David (he/him)". I won't have anything to do with it, I just hope they all get fed up with it soon.

Can you give me an example of what their pronoun would be in their email? No such thing in the aerospace workplace..

 

[Sentenza]

EDIT: So that this isn't just snark, I'll add that its crazy disingenuous to just suggest - in an industry that is known for squeezing the absolute fuck out of its employees if it'll make a dollar - that "pronouns" are the root cause of workplace feedback.

. . .and not to give this thread any more juice but the folks in that are fucking ridiculous. "Facts?" No. You just barfed out a bunch of overgeneralized horseshit that matches your ideological bias.

Did you even read some of these reports of "toxic work environment" in the game industry? Like the ones about Riot and (a lot of the minor ones in the following two years or so)?
Did you actually remember them being about being chained to a desk and whipped to perform better?
Most of them were referring to "horror stories" like "my male colleagues exchanging sexist jokes about their girlfriends in front of us", which is a textbook case of "Expecting people to walk on eggshells in front of you".

Still, has nothing to do with gaming and is just another "anti-Woke" thread that should be in OT.

^^^ Agree wholeheartedly with the above, and frankly in a corporate environment people with "pronouns" listed in their resumes are the last thing most worry about.

Some of the people in the comments even agree, and even though this reasoning is a little flawed, if your worried about people with little work ethic getting hired well...those people usually don't end up submitting resumes or getting past the interview process. It's a non issue. This thread and even the linked video have nothing to do with the game industry in particular, its just woke-bashing or whatever. I'm just glad those two people in the video aren't my manager, they don't seem like they would foster a productive work environment (especially the last lady...)

Incidentally you are saying this while ignoring that the game industry may very well be THE one working environment where "pronouns people" aren't just not "filtered out from the get go" as that comment suggests, but are proliferating at a disproportionate rate compared to many other creative or corporate fields.

 

[SlimySnake]

Hmm, a bit offtopic but I agree that this may actually happen in gaming development, like imagine being a co-worker with a psycho they/them and always telling you what not to say or what not to do, I imagine it creates a very toxic environment and this in turn makes the games painful/longer to develop as well as ending up with bugs and whatnot due to the amount of stress your coworker(s) cause.

This is literally what happened at Insomniac. A young developer was in a meeting with the actual fucking directors of the game who wanted to make Rivet more feminine. The guy had a meltdown, got up picked up a poster from the wall and slammed it on the desk to make his point. He left the studio later. Clearly no one wanted that drama queen even at Insmoniac, a liberal LA based studio.

When I first started work anywhere, i knew my place. Even after 13 years of working in one company, i know not to act out or disrespect anyone. The people shes talking about are very outspoken with just 1-2 years of experience thinking they know everything or the fact that anyone at the company cares what they have to say.

 

[GenericUser]

I dont give a shit, a shitload of people suffer from "toxic work environments" every day, yet, the pull on through because they have to.

 

[Meicyn]

oh neat i didnt know prageru started doing youtube shorts very cool very politics

my favorite part of the video was how it talked about gaming

 

[BennyBlanco]

I saw this same video the other day and counted my lucky stars that I don’t work in a field where I will ever encounter this type of shit

 

[StueyDuck]

It's funny this thread comes around the same time the #WhatAGameDevLooksLike or some shit on Twitter.

It's all just a bunch of your generic narcissistic onlyfans gym girls with blue hair in positions of like environment artist or some shit.

Like we all have different jobs in life. I'm a software engineer, not once have I ever thought of posting a photo of myself online with "what a dev looks like" how full of yourself do you have to be . I work with Chris Hemsworth looking m'fers through to Peter Griffins. Who gives a shit. Just do your job

It's embarrassing and honestly shows why most modern games are just iterative slogs with numbers flying around the screen and no inventiveness

 

[Sentenza]

I saw this same video the other day and counted my lucky stars that I don’t work in a field where I will ever encounter this type of shit

Just since a couple of guys in the thread were basically claiming "this stuff doesn't happen" I tracked down this Glassdoor review it was posted sometime ago about Hardsuit Labs, the devs who WERE working on the sequel of Vampire Bloodlines.

1.0
★★★★★

• Work/Life Balance
  ★★★★★
• Culture & Values
  ★★★★★
• Diversity & Inclusion
  ★★★★★
• Career Opportunities
  ★★★★★
• Compensation and Benefits
  ★★★★★
• Senior Management
  ★★★★★

Former Employee, less than 1 year

Generally good people, awful ideas, disruptive elements​

Nov 3, 2020 - Programmer in Seattle, WA
Recommend
CEO Approval
Business Outlook

Pros
Most of the people are likeable. A decent place to start your work in, helpful but overworked co-workers. The premises are nice and open. Paradox ensures the company won't go under until the big-name title is completed.

Cons
The company likely won't survive long after they push out their larger products. They know this and try to compensate by having multiple projects on the side. Pay is low. Most likeable co-workers leave the job after being burnt out by what lies below.
Absurd amounts of turnover. It's more rare to have a weekly report without at least 1 person leaving than it is to have one with no one leaving. I must stress that i've never seen something like this.

The management are clueless, and cannot organize a team. Some managers are slack-jawed and only seem interested in their social media feed.

Constant bad advice and "no, do it this bad way" over-the-shoulder pestering.

Constant forced crunch time. Doing 9-11 hour days without counting in commute on a static monthly pay with no additional benefits is not fun, especially in this environment.

Zero chance to focus on your work with busybodies trying to micromanage every line of code
Zero chance to focus on your work with other busybodies trying to always go on about their perceived differences.

The self-identified "LGBT" people are often nagging at innocent jokes and interrupting co-worker work-related conversations because they feel like they need to inject themselves and their opinion to it. This leads to a divided workplace which the management is unwilling to handle. Constant murmur by management on how they're so "open", "accepting" and "diverse"

Constant undertones in all speech by management about progressive ideas and ideals even when it comes to completely neutral subjects like programming and gameplay design. All additions and suggestions are primarily weighted against the former factors instead of whether or not it would fit the series or be conducive to good gameplay. Obviously false glowing 5-star reviews on Glassdoor.


Advice to Management
Manage your workforce as a group instead of sitting behind a programmer's shoulder and trying to interject dumb ideas. The design and art people mention that this is common there too. During work hours, control the people who are disruptive or tell them to act even remotely professionally. It's fine to have an open enviroment and expressive freedoms, but when certain people are disruptive to work and constant annoyance to co-workers, they should be dealt with. Have not dealt with the CEOs so cannot say much about them.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Part of my responsibilities at work include being a hiring manager and I've experienced some funny shit while interviewing people, but luckily I never had to deal with anything like that. However, if a CV came by my desk and it would have pronouns on it then fuck yeah, in the garbage can you go. Sorry. The last thing I wanna do when onboarding a new person is dealing with some entitled brat that doesn't want to do the job or can't handle a bit of stress from time to time.

 

[March Climber]

The OP's argument and the opposing argument both don't work, because both use sweeping statements for a group of people.

I'm not sure how many people can realize that just saying 'this is why this group of people are bad' because a few of them online said that 'this is why your group of people are bad' doesn't work. I'm so glad I don't spend that much time online like others. I just whip my phone out randomly when I'm bored and post here or simply read some news here, but otherwise I'm not going from GAF to Twitter to GAF to participate in a cycle of mudslinging that leads nowhere.

 

[StueyDuck]

The OP's argument and the opposing argument both don't work, because both use sweeping statements for a group of people.

I'm not sure how many people can realize that just saying 'this is why this group of people are bad' because a few of them online said that 'this is why your group of people are bad' doesn't work. I'm so glad I don't spend that much time online like others. I just whip my phone out randomly when I'm bored and post here or simply read some news here, but otherwise I'm not going from GAF to Twitter to GAF to participate in a cycle of mudslinging that leads nowhere.

Where does the meadow of peaceful pronoun users live and exist

I'm all for not generalizing but every interaction I've ever had with the alphabet mafia is usually a shithead.

There's a difference between being liberal and being a narcissist

 

[Koppelthorn]

The OP's argument and the opposing argument both don't work, because both use sweeping statements for a group of people.

I'm not sure how many people can realize that just saying 'this is why this group of people are bad' because a few of them online said that 'this is why your group of people are bad' doesn't work. I'm so glad I don't spend that much time online like others. I just whip my phone out randomly when I'm bored and post here or simply read some news here, but otherwise I'm not going from GAF to Twitter to GAF to participate in a cycle of mudslinging that leads nowhere.

I think people need to remember that we are talking about individuals here, they don't define an entire group no matter how much you dislike them. But it's hard for a lot of people to conceptualize that especially about LGBT/perceived "woke" people, especially when I guarantee most of the people in this very thread have either never met one or have only had bad experiences with them (the worst are often the loudest sadly...)

It's a little upsetting to see an increase of this generalizing rhetoric against these sort of people on here and the wider internet as someone who is LGBTQIAHIDEOKOJIMAGENDER++ , but thats just the way the news goes

 

[[Sigma]]

I have to agree and I consider myself somewhat far left, well a progressive (economically more so).

 

[March Climber]

Where does the meadow of peaceful pronoun users live and exist

I'm all for not generalizing but every interaction I've ever had with the alphabet mafia is usually a shithead.

There's a difference between being liberal and being a narcissist

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=vocal minority

Vocal Minority

-The small group of individuals that frequently and strongly voice their opinions, contrasting with the silent majority that makes up most of the population base, but rarely give their opinions.

Mostly used to refer to forums of a particular service or product

 

[bitbydeath]

The recent South Park episode goes into it a little.

 

[FoxMcChief]

I agree with the video, but I doubt I’d hire her either with how she speaks. Sounds like nails on a chalkboard.

 

[StueyDuck]

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=vocal minority

The thread is entirely about the people who use pronouns as their personality...

Whether they are they are a vocal minority or not the point is they are all usually shit people because it comes from a play of narcissism

 

[Koppelthorn]

The thread is entirely about the people who use pronouns as their personality...

Whether they are they are a vocal minority or not the point is they are all usually shit people because it comes from a play of narcissism

 

[March Climber]

The thread is entirely about the people who use pronouns as their personality...

No, it's about the focus of preferred pronouns and how that focus can be seen as potentially detrimental to work environments that aren't largely reliant upon using them nor caring to. Don't move goalposts or make this something it isn't.

Whether they are they are a vocal minority or not the point is they are all usually shit people because it comes from a play of narcissism

Again, whenever someone you see says 'they are all' it should be a moment where you look at the statement critically and see the flaws in it. If you're taking the statement as is, it's an invitation for someone to take advantage of your perception, because it's very easy in today's world for people to willingly drag themselves down a rabbit hole and suddenly they're in a crowd of people with strong opinions. Some of it might even be things the person doesn't care about but will agree with just for that solidarity.

At least for me, the instant someone says 'all ___ people are this' I'm skeptical. Doesn't matter what side of the fence you're on and where you're aiming. It's an irrational starting point to make a statement about people.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[Fuz]

preferred pronouns

ahahahahahahah

 

[ANDS]

Most of them were referring to "horror stories" like "my male colleagues exchanging sexist jokes about their girlfriends in front of us", which is a textbook case of "Expecting people to walk on eggshells in front of you".

Where do you work where the bolded wouldn't get you (rightly) bounced? Like is this fucking serious or do you all just work in "Cousin Eddies Auto-Body Shop?" Honestly, show me ONE professional environment where that is even close to being considered "normal work conversation."

It's funny this thread comes around the same time the #WhatAGameDevLooksLike or some shit on Twitter.

It's all just a bunch of your generic narcissistic onlyfans gym girls with blue hair in positions of like environment artist or some shit.

Who are you talking about? Show us all these people that match this absurd spectacular caricature of people. You're pulling this out of your ass based on some collection of memes you've seen over the years that are now codified as "facts" (pun intended) in your brain space.

. . .I mean holy cheese and crackers, life has done an absolute number on some of you.

 

[Crayon]

My last hire is they/them and they are stellar. Little sensitive and I make sure to tell them I appreciate all the initiative and extra hours. And I tell my boss that is something needed to keep this employee happy and running on all cylinders. I consider that quirk normal because inside, none of us are normal. There's not a person here with any kind of pronouns that doesn't need some kind of special consideration for their personality.

Management is about personalities. If my ability to assess personalities was so shallow, I'd have passed on one of my best people. I did interview two trans girls, one being an irresponsible flake and the other being a self-important snot. Related to their pronouns? Maybe, maybe not but I can't afford to correlate that anyhow as I have to be wary of those traits in anyone of any background.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

"IS TOO MUCH TO ASK TO LISTEN TO US?"

are you not hearing the responses?

 

[-Minsc-]

I dont give a shit, a shitload of people suffer from "toxic work environments" every day, yet, the pull on through because they have to.

My idea of a toxic work environment is trying my best to get stuff done and having the person I work under constantly yelling at me.

 

[Sentenza]

Where do you work where the bolded wouldn't get you (rightly) bounced? Like is this fucking serious or do you all just work in "Cousin Eddies Auto-Body Shop?" Honestly, show me ONE professional environment where that is even close to being considered "normal work conversation."

That's not even supposed to be a "work conversation" but an informal chat between two friends who happen to be working together. Which is exactly the problem.

In the (real) episode mentioned above (it was part of the Riot report), you have two co-workers chatting informally and the nagging outlooker butting in to scold them about not conforming to her moral standards.
And please note that we just have her word about the "sexism" on display in that case; I wouldn't honestly be surprised if the incriminating insensitive joke about girlfriends was some harmless shit like "Women are such a pain" or equivalent.

Not that I would EVER feel legitimate to butt in or "REPORT TO HR" even if the joke made was way more crass, because at its core it would remain NONE OF MY FUCKING BUSINESS.

 

[SirKicksalot]

You'd expect that people who reject reality to such a degree that they cut off their dicks would be good workers when it comes to creating alternate realities. Turns out they're just extreme narcissists and don't do shit unless it's 110% about them.

 

[StueyDuck]

No, it's about the focus of preferred pronouns and how that focus can be seen as potentially detrimental to work environments that aren't largely reliant upon using them nor caring to. Don't move goalposts or make this something it isn't.

Again, whenever someone you see says 'they are all' it should be a moment where you look at the statement critically and see the flaws in it. If you're taking the statement as is, it's an invitation for someone to take advantage of your perception, because it's very easy in today's world for people to willingly drag themselves down a rabbit hole and suddenly they're in a crowd of people with strong opinions. Some of it might even be things the person doesn't care about but will agree with just for that solidarity.

At least for me, the instant someone says 'all ___ people are this' I'm skeptical. Doesn't matter what side of the fence you're on and where you're aiming. It's an irrational starting point to make a statement about people.

Still waiting for you to point out where all these fantastic preferred pronoun people are

 

[hemo memo]

Sadly people click on those links. Which is ridiculous as it is the equivalent of a journalist who calls recently fired or resigned fast food restaurant employees to write gossip about the that work environment.

No one would give attention to that article. But with certain people in gaming, weirdly people find that so interesting and got them famous as a result of those reports.

 

[Koppelthorn]

You'd expect that people who reject reality to such a degree that they cut off their dicks would be good workers when it comes to creating alternate realities. Turns out they're just extreme narcissists and don't do shit unless it's 110% about them.