BaneIsPain
Member
https://www.businessinsider.com/rin...pointed-fans-will-like-season-two-2022-10?amp
I have a bridge to sell
I have a bridge to sell
-
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Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Is this the fake mainstream news that everyone keeps harping on about?
https://www.businessinsider.com/rin...pointed-fans-will-like-season-two-2022-10?amp
I have a bridge to sell
The tried and tested ol' "Please come back, I've changed. Honest!" spiel.
To be fair though, some decent shows do take a few seasons to hit their stride.
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Wildebeest
Member
The whole plot of the lord of the rings depends on the fact that Sauron wasn't able to find the most powerful magical artefact in the world. He was real bad at finding things and used methods like torturing people for information to get clues.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Actually they do not apologise, they double down, it is the “if you did not like it, you watched it wrong and you will love Season 2 as we double down on what we think made Season 1 great actually”.
It is cute they think Season 1 even achieves a well told story with interesting characters like Batman Begins and next season is going to be their Dark Knight.
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https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/rings-of-power-sauron-season-2-lotr-1235240809/
Jesus Christ.
This insufferable twat literally compares his writing to Shakespeare.
“Sauron can now just be Sauron,” McKay adds. “Like Tony Soprano or Walter White. He’s evil, but complexly evil."
“Sauron can now just be Sauron,” McKay adds. “Like Tony Soprano or Walter White. He’s evil, but complexly evil."
“Sauron can now just be Sauron,” McKay adds. “Like Tony Soprano or Walter White. He’s evil, but complexly evil."
‘The Rings of Power’ Showrunners: Sauron Will Be Like Walter White in Season 2
Jesus Christ.
This insufferable twat literally compares his writing to Shakespeare.
“Sauron can now just be Sauron,” McKay adds. “Like Tony Soprano or Walter White. He’s evil, but complexly evil."
“Sauron can now just be Sauron,” McKay adds. “Like Tony Soprano or Walter White. He’s evil, but complexly evil."
“Sauron can now just be Sauron,” McKay adds. “Like Tony Soprano or Walter White. He’s evil, but complexly evil."
Alx
Member
I’m ok with having Sauron less one-dimensional than « he’s the ultimate evil ». I’m not sure about how it was handled in the show, which in general lacks subtlety (there could be more ambiguity and complexity in their relationship than him explicitly asking « be my queen »), but there’s ground for a good story there.
It’s my major issue with the show right now, I like the characters, universe, production value, but not the narration. Still entertaining to watch but it has a distinct vibe of fan fiction with a large budget.
It’s my major issue with the show right now, I like the characters, universe, production value, but not the narration. Still entertaining to watch but it has a distinct vibe of fan fiction with a large budget.
Cyberpunkd
Member
Maybe Lucifer is also misunderstood, eh? Hitler? Himmler? Mao? Stalin? Hey, they did terrible things, but…
I hate the moral relativism that everything has to be complicated. Sauron is evil, pure evil, done. It was like that in all of Tolkien lore, there is a reason why the English professor wrote thousands of pages and not even once went with - ‘Sauron might have been a misunderstood soul’.
HoodWinked
Member
I dunno in modern times I've seen the opposite creators being incredibly antagonistic and smug, if you don't like it then we don't want you as viewers/players.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
A video of mostly fluff and just recounting the episode. Only to be watched by casuals who liked the show.
""Sauron can now just be Sauron, like Tony Soprano or Walter White," McKay said."https://www.businessinsider.com/rin...pointed-fans-will-like-season-two-2022-10?amp
I have a bridge to sell
Jesus fucking christ, Tony Soprano and Heisenberg are this clowns go to "Supreme villains"? It explains sooooo much.
Ulysses 31
Member
Alx
Member
Funnily enough I was specifically thinking of Neil Gailan’s Lucifer when writing that post. Hitler & co are also better described as products of their time and consequences of social and historical events, which is more complex (and accurate) than reducing them to « they were pure evil »
It’s not moral relativism since it doesn’t deny they were evil people, but evil people are complex too, with their own background, obsession and ambitions. Which is why Hitler isn’t Stalin isn’t Mao etc.
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“It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work would reflect what the world actually looks like.” - Lindsey Weber, E.P. Amazon's LOTR Series, Vanity Fair (Feb. 2022)
Yeah, that is Gaslighting of the highest order. Any complaint is passed off as an -ism. It's practically a cult now.
And it's easy to spot an acolyte because as soon as you say something like "wow, Wakanda sure lacks diversity" you get a loooooong "well, aksualy..." explanation for why that case is somehow exempt.
But for RoP the actors are the LEAST of its problems.
Madflavor
Member
This is why I will always look at The Lord of the Rings Trilogy as one of the greatest and luckiest cases of "lightning in a bottle" in film history. It was made by the right people at the right time. And I really mean the right time. If you ever wondered what the trilogy would've been like if it were made today, Rings of Power finally answers that question.
They took Sauron and made him an incel. Isn't that perfect? Doesn't that just define 2022 writing? I'm not mad. The trilogy is and always will be great and untainted. If anything I found this to be a fascinating experiment. Take one of the most respected, beloved, and masterfully crafted IPs in literature, and give it to modern day writers.
They took Sauron and made him an incel. Isn't that perfect? Doesn't that just define 2022 writing? I'm not mad. The trilogy is and always will be great and untainted. If anything I found this to be a fascinating experiment. Take one of the most respected, beloved, and masterfully crafted IPs in literature, and give it to modern day writers.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/rings-of-power-sauron-season-2-lotr-1235240809/
‘The Rings of Power’ Showrunners: Sauron Will Be Like Walter White in Season 2
Jesus Christ.
This insufferable twat literally compares his writing to Shakespeare.
“Sauron can now just be Sauron,” McKay adds. “Like Tony Soprano or Walter White. He’s evil, but complexly evil."
“Sauron can now just be Sauron,” McKay adds. “Like Tony Soprano or Walter White. He’s evil, but complexly evil."
“Sauron can now just be Sauron,” McKay adds. “Like Tony Soprano or Walter White. He’s evil, but complexly evil."
They are having a laugh, they sound completely delusional
.Comparing themselves to Milton and Shakespeare or their series to The Sopranos or Breaking Bad… Oy vey…
BadBurger
Is 'That Pure Potato'
Well despite trying to wait to watch all my shows Sunday I got bored and watched the finale. I figured why not, probably won't watch the second season anyways.
For what it's worth this was easily the best episode. They carved the fat (completely abandoned the Southlands), pacing was good, dialog less cheesy, more solid hints to the actual lore (like Gandalf being associated with flame, and Sauron seeing himself as fixing things via his obsession with order), no odd wardrobing, they got Galadriel out of that dumbass armor as quickly as they could and never looked back, Annatar was being all seductive and seeding thoughts in Celebrimbor, etc.
Honestly this entire episode, especially with the writing credits having Hutchinson attached along with the shitty newb show runners, feels like they did some re-writes and reshoots. I mean it screams of it given how this episode was so much better written than the others. There was only one new cheesy line "I AM GOOD", and when they made callbacks to previous cheesy sayings they quickly glossed over them with no reverence or nostalgia (like "find where the sparrows learn to sing" or whatever). And more than anything every moment moved the plot along convincingly, and it had real stakes - the same things the show runners touched on in that article where they responded to the vast criticism from critics and fans alike.
That said it was too little, too late. If they had given even half the care to the previous writing as they did to this episode the show might have been worth saving. And it was obvious they rushed things together with Sauron to try and make as many things to look forward to for viewers that had already tuned out. A last ditch attempt to hold onto lost viewers.
Again, I'd bet money they did rewrites and reshoots, regardless of what they may claim in the future.
For what it's worth this was easily the best episode. They carved the fat (completely abandoned the Southlands), pacing was good, dialog less cheesy, more solid hints to the actual lore (like Gandalf being associated with flame, and Sauron seeing himself as fixing things via his obsession with order), no odd wardrobing, they got Galadriel out of that dumbass armor as quickly as they could and never looked back, Annatar was being all seductive and seeding thoughts in Celebrimbor, etc.
Honestly this entire episode, especially with the writing credits having Hutchinson attached along with the shitty newb show runners, feels like they did some re-writes and reshoots. I mean it screams of it given how this episode was so much better written than the others. There was only one new cheesy line "I AM GOOD", and when they made callbacks to previous cheesy sayings they quickly glossed over them with no reverence or nostalgia (like "find where the sparrows learn to sing" or whatever). And more than anything every moment moved the plot along convincingly, and it had real stakes - the same things the show runners touched on in that article where they responded to the vast criticism from critics and fans alike.
That said it was too little, too late. If they had given even half the care to the previous writing as they did to this episode the show might have been worth saving. And it was obvious they rushed things together with Sauron to try and make as many things to look forward to for viewers that had already tuned out. A last ditch attempt to hold onto lost viewers.
Again, I'd bet money they did rewrites and reshoots, regardless of what they may claim in the future.
BaneIsPain
Member
It seems the producer The War of the Rohirrim animation (WB) is not a fan of Rings of Power.
I do hope they will do justice to Helm hammerhand the last King of Rohan of the first line.
I do hope they will do justice to Helm hammerhand the last King of Rohan of the first line.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They just need to stop talking. Then again, they have an army of shills lined up to write mind numbing pieces.https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/rings-of-power-sauron-season-2-lotr-1235240809/
‘The Rings of Power’ Showrunners: Sauron Will Be Like Walter White in Season 2
Jesus Christ.
This insufferable twat literally compares his writing to Shakespeare.
“Sauron can now just be Sauron,” McKay adds. “Like Tony Soprano or Walter White. He’s evil, but complexly evil."
“Sauron can now just be Sauron,” McKay adds. “Like Tony Soprano or Walter White. He’s evil, but complexly evil."
“Sauron can now just be Sauron,” McKay adds. “Like Tony Soprano or Walter White. He’s evil, but complexly evil."
Starting to see where most of that $billy went.
BadBurger
Is 'That Pure Potato'
In retrospect upon the entire season, it's just sad what they did with every single major character. Pick any one, doesn't matter, choose at random, and their story and depiction in almost no way is true to the source in even spirit (edit: after giving it some more though, I suppose they did come close with Durin IV and Ar-Pharazôn). But the worst they did was probably Gandalf in my opinion. They essentially rewrote him entirely in all but appearance.
Gandalf was alive and chilling in Valinor for an age and a half. He sailed to Middle Earth along with Saruman and Radagast as wholly developed, millennia old beings with clear missions. The knew Sauron personally. They had limits imposed upon them. Here, he falls from the sky alone, a blithering idiot who needs to be guided like a child and instructed on the simple ways of the world. Doesn't even have a fucking staff. I mean, how in the world could they profess to be Tolkien fans and scholars and get one of the Maiar that - God - Damned - Wrong?
Well anyways. The season is finally over so I guess that's that. It just really sucks that this is what we got. There's that War of the Rohirrim animated feature coming in a year or so, but that's going to be so much more narrow in scope and all. God, what a waste this show ended up being. I can only imagine how silly it's going to be when they try to treat this cherished vehicle like Breaking Bad in season 2.
Gandalf was alive and chilling in Valinor for an age and a half. He sailed to Middle Earth along with Saruman and Radagast as wholly developed, millennia old beings with clear missions. The knew Sauron personally. They had limits imposed upon them. Here, he falls from the sky alone, a blithering idiot who needs to be guided like a child and instructed on the simple ways of the world. Doesn't even have a fucking staff. I mean, how in the world could they profess to be Tolkien fans and scholars and get one of the Maiar that - God - Damned - Wrong?
Well anyways. The season is finally over so I guess that's that. It just really sucks that this is what we got. There's that War of the Rohirrim animated feature coming in a year or so, but that's going to be so much more narrow in scope and all. God, what a waste this show ended up being. I can only imagine how silly it's going to be when they try to treat this cherished vehicle like Breaking Bad in season 2.
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Fbh
Member
Finale was decent (for the standards of this show). It wasn't great but at least it had the sort of pacing the rest of the show would have had and did give answers to their mystery boxes (even if they were the most safe and predictable ones)
Overall this was pretty bland. Even if we ignore the original lore for a second and just take this at face value as on original show loosely based on Tolkien lore. The characters were mostly unlikable, the writing was mostly terrible and the pacing is way too slow. Can't think of any character who had a satisfying or even just engaging character arc this season, thinking about a potential S2 I'm pretty much rooting for no one .
Finally, maybe I set my expectations too high but I feel they didn't do a lot with the budget. Yeah there's some really nice establishing shots and a couple of cool sequences but overall it often felt like the same old limited small sets and scope.
I said it in another post but it really give that videogame vibe where everything is scaled back due to technical limitation (like "it's an army...but it's 20 dudes" or "you are in this massive city, but you only get to be in this one room").
Overall this was pretty bland. Even if we ignore the original lore for a second and just take this at face value as on original show loosely based on Tolkien lore. The characters were mostly unlikable, the writing was mostly terrible and the pacing is way too slow. Can't think of any character who had a satisfying or even just engaging character arc this season, thinking about a potential S2 I'm pretty much rooting for no one .
Finally, maybe I set my expectations too high but I feel they didn't do a lot with the budget. Yeah there's some really nice establishing shots and a couple of cool sequences but overall it often felt like the same old limited small sets and scope.
I said it in another post but it really give that videogame vibe where everything is scaled back due to technical limitation (like "it's an army...but it's 20 dudes" or "you are in this massive city, but you only get to be in this one room").
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Ulysses 31
Member
Doesn't the billion $ also include season 2's production?I am starting to think that they either lied about the budget (grossly misled people at least) or this is a big tax write off, money laundering scheme
negator2vc
Member
Game of Thrones showrunners (after S8) will like to have a word
Loved all those "[A] forgot [C]" interviews
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
If you look at the LotR original trilogy in extended edition form, made with almost 20 year old tech or so, I really cannot see where the money for this series went and if good choices and practical effects could have allowed them to spend the budget more wisely.
The Rings of Power's cost per episode makes it most expensive TV series ever
The Rings of Power always promised to have an eye-watering budget but its cost per episode makes it the most expensive TV show by far.
www.hitc.com
This says about $0.72 Billion for the first season ($250 Million for the rights to the material, but that gets spread over all the seasons).
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I don’t think any one of those clowns compared themselves to Shakespeare, let alone have an army of “influencers” and media pundits talking like this is the best thing out of Hollywood, ever.Game of Thrones showrunners (after S8) will like to have a word
Loved all those "[A] forgot [C]" interviews
“Certified Fresh”
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I don't think Sauron was falling for Galadriel. He's a deceiver. Fooling people into coming to his cause. He thought he could trick Galadriel into coming to his side by seducing her mind... First with the memory of Finrod and then with the promise of being Queen over all... She didn't desire that.
I had a text Convo with my friend about the finale... We were both wrong about Halbrand... She was right (it seems) about the Stranger being Gandalf... And both of us were mad they hadn't been shooting this season and next concurrently. Now we gotta wait 2 freaking years!
She loved the show even though it was wonky in areas. I did too... Pretty much the same reasons. Neither of us minded the skin color stuff as none of them were the main LOTR characters (Elrond, Galadriel, elendil, Isildur)...
Only thing that doesn't make sense, because this is supposed to follow the LOOK of the movies, is the presentation of Nenya, Galadriel's ring. It looks totally different!
I had a text Convo with my friend about the finale... We were both wrong about Halbrand... She was right (it seems) about the Stranger being Gandalf... And both of us were mad they hadn't been shooting this season and next concurrently. Now we gotta wait 2 freaking years!
She loved the show even though it was wonky in areas. I did too... Pretty much the same reasons. Neither of us minded the skin color stuff as none of them were the main LOTR characters (Elrond, Galadriel, elendil, Isildur)...
Only thing that doesn't make sense, because this is supposed to follow the LOOK of the movies, is the presentation of Nenya, Galadriel's ring. It looks totally different!
PhaseJump
Banned
No.
He is Toucan Sam and everybody here is too retarded to not see it. Follow your nose? You can't fool me, showrunners.
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We should keep in mind that any amount of money can be spent relatively easily on a film project, especially if the people in charge hand over most production elements to VFX mills. Some Marvel movies are altogether mediocre and cookie cutter, doing nothing impressive or notable, while burning through $200 million budgets. Project management has a huge influence on outcomes. Compare $200 million spent on a random MCU film to $200 million spent by Christopher Nolan. Now recall that these RoP showrunners are incompetent, arrogant fools with zero experience.
Peter Jackson came from an extensive indie filmmaking background where he had to utilize practical effects and made the most of every dollar. He was there pushing for blacksmiths to make hundreds of suits of real armor by hand, for extensive location shooting and building a real Shire, for respecting the source material as much as possible while also ensuring the results work on a cinematic level. He built his own VFX studio from the ground up for the trilogy, similarly to Lucas with ILM, and his team developed new technologies for motion capture. He put in tremendous effort to use camera perspective and practical effects for the size differences between characters, in ways that would generally hold up when viewed decades later. He poured over Tolkien's writing for years, along with his writing team. While the films were expensive to make, they could have easily spent tenfold for what they accomplished.
The RoP con artists, meanwhile, devoted all of their effort to selling themselves as the right people for the job. You can see the difference in how they present themselves. These clowns do nothing but talk themselves up and compare their work to Milton and Shakespeare, Peter Jackson and Christopher Nolan, Vince Gilligan and David Chase.
Thaedolus
Member
I told a girl I could write Shakespeare with my tongue once…that line served its intended purpose almost immediatelyI don’t think any one of those clowns compared themselves to Shakespeare, let alone have an army of “influencers” and media pundits talking like this is the best thing out of Hollywood, ever.
“Certified Fresh”
strange headache
Banned
WHAT?! Have you not noticed the emotional attraction between Galadriel and Halbrand the episodes before? Especially in episode 6:
We really don't need this in a Tolkien story!
Also Halbrand lecturing frikkin' Celebrimbor about alloys is wrong on so many levels. Here is probably the most skilled smith of all time besides his grandfather who created the Silmarils and Haldbrand goes "hAvE yOu TrIeD mIxInG mEtAlS?". And then he goes "cOnSiDeR iT a GiFt" because he's the Lord of gifts, you get it?
Indeed. Celebrimbor is the greatest smith in the history of the world next to Feanor. Fools can only write foolish characters, alas.
To expand upon this a bit, Tolkien devised the magic of the Elves as an expression of supernatural art and skill, hence the focus on how they crafted magical artifacts like the Silmarils, the Rings, magical swords like Glamdring, or even something like Lembas waybread.
The forging of the rings took several hundred years of artistry and craftsmanship. It was a larger than life effort put into artifacts so small. Since these con artists had no conception whatsoever of how to put that on screen, they instead decided to make Mithril a magic McGuffin, along with the metal from Galadriel's knife. Since the only research they did on metalworking was 60 seconds of scrolling on TikTok, with the information that Sauron helped Celebrimbor forge the Rings (not the Elven Rings, though, which is very impactful to the story...), the result is this braindead scene requiring Celebrimbor to only know how to bang on rocks crudely.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
WHAT?! Have you not noticed the emotional attraction between Galadriel and Halbrand the episodes before? Especially in episode 6:
We really don't need this in a Tolkien story!
Also Halbrand lecturing frikkin' Celebrimbor about alloys is wrong on so many levels. Here is probably the most skilled smith of all time besides his grandfather who created the Silmarils and Haldbrand goes "hAvE yOu TrIeD mIxInG mEtAlS?". And then he goes "cOnSiDeR iT a GiFt" because he's the Lord of gifts, you get it?
To be absolutely fair, Sauron could absolutely provide tips for Celebrimbor. Sauron the Maiar was the apprentice of Aulë the Smithing Valar.
But in saying that you’re dead right: Celebrimbor should have been “WTF mofo! How does a greasy piece of shit like you possess such intimate knowledge of the workings and substances of Arda? There must be more to you than meets the eye! [a few notes from the Transformer theme surfaces as an easter egg] Guards! Seize him!” [cue Benny Hill theme]
It's all in the wrist
Member
Y'all are in too deep to enjoy this. I had no idea that Halbrand was Sauron.
The show is decent. Most people I talk to feel the same way. The opinions online make it sound like it shits down Tolkien's throat.
The show is decent. Most people I talk to feel the same way. The opinions online make it sound like it shits down Tolkien's throat.
Well, it does, in a big way.
The only question is whether or not it bothers you.
If this was just some generic high fantasy show it would still be dumb, because lets be honest, it is written for shit with radical character swings every episode, and it has little to offer aside from some really nice scenery. As a sucker for fantasy of any type I'd still watch.
But as a Tolkien show, it is maliciously offensive.
BadBurger
Is 'That Pure Potato'
Probably because we're lore nerds. There was a major tell for us, when he crafted that majestic sword like it was nothing. No mere man could do that in Tolkien's world. Sauron began his "life" as an aid to the demigod of smithing and craftsmanship. So that was like firing a flare into the sky for us. Second was his miraculous ability to heal. And, of course, when Adar asked him "who are you?", and he hesitates. Like two scenes later we discover that the item he collected wasn't the sword hilt. All those things taken together and it was rather obvious.
As for crapping on Tolkien, it doesn't do that so much as lay him down gently, position itself over his mouth using leverage to remain even, then pump his mouth furiously, arms outstretched like it's pretending to fly, while heaping praise on itself ... "I'm like Milton.... No! Shakespeare! No! Fantasy television's The Sopranos and Batman Begins!......ughhh *gurkin*".
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Alex11
Member
Well, shitting on lore aside, at least in the finale I had a good chuckle when they were arriving at Eregion, the closeup slow-mo showing Galadriel mighty and proud while in the background Halbrand hunched over and smacking his face against the horse, I played that over and over.
PhaseJump
Banned
pramod
Banned
I can already see the last scene of the show...The Stranger walks away as Galadriel says..."thank you, Mithrandir..."
They are going to do a Rogue One
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A Tolkien rock opera....now I'd buy that for a dollar!!!
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
He has a punchable face.
Insane Metal
Member
Can't wait for the next season.
AJUMP23
Member
They could have used the proverb “a band of three is not quickly broken”
Agreed. A toast, to Rings of Power Season 2. May it exceed the first in every respect.
AJUMP23
Member
Sauron was so smart he got himself injured knowing they would take him to the new super secret elven forge that the person taking him had never been to. Then he would meet the super great elven smith that had to quit but had to convince him to work with new metal. Then the wise elven king makes consistently dumb decisions and is obstinate because the cool elves need an obstacle to overcome.
nuemenor only has 3 ships for their army. When they get back from their war harbor full of more warships.
nuemenor only has 3 ships for their army. When they get back from their war harbor full of more warships.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
PunishedAgreed. A toast, to Rings of Power Season 2. May it exceed the first in every respect.