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[Tschumi]

Konami , I always assumed it was already a Sony studio...

 

[Kagey K]

Would like to get more details but the article is behind a paywall.

This seems a bit suspect right now.

Is the suggestion that buying out a company of that magnitude should be illegal because it stifles competition?

Here's some basic reading on the subject.

The Antitrust Laws

Congress passed the first antitrust law, the Sherman Act, in 1890 as a "comprehensive charter of economic liberty aimed at preserving free and unfettered competition as the rule of trade." In 1914,

www.ftc.gov

It's to try to ensure competition continues and one company doesn't control an entire market.

For instance if I owned Kellogs they would prevent me from buying General Mills. Or they would block a buyout between Coke and Pepsi.

 

[EDMIX]

Sony doesn't swoop in and blank check an entire publisher, which Microsoft has now done two times.

Bungie was a shock, but it's still just a developer in the end. They typically fold in studios who have primarily been on PlayStation anyway, which is partly why this one was a surprise.

But Microsoft changed the game entirely with the Activision/Blizzard deal. They've long had the financial power to buy their way into whatever.

I think Square-Enix is the likely purchase, based on prior history and current console exclusives(FF7R,FFXIV, FFXVI upcoming).

Capcom could be, based on EVO being owned by Sony and their exclusivity with Street Fighter V.

There are a few other devs they could have, such as Kojima Productions, Arc System Works, Ember Labs, etc.

But if Sony does go for a big gun, it's most likely Square for me.

But if they do, it'll trigger a consolidation war that will not end well for gamers in the end, I fear.

But one might argue Microsoft already fired those shots.

I remember people feared and postulated 20 years ago,when Microsoft first entered the console gaming sector, that they could just "buy" their way to success if they wanted.

They didn't for a long time, but PlayStation has been market leader for so many generations(save for PS3 I think),I guess they finally decided to pull out the checkbook as many folks figured.

Some strong ass points, I completely forgot about that Evo purchase lol Maybe Sony is in talks still to buy Capcom or Bandi Namco (or both)

R RydarGaf "You comparing Bungie, a game developer to large publishers " Nope, I comparing situations where Sony bought a company based on a prior relationship. A team or publisher is irrelevant, in fact anything that happened prior may not be relevant if they must factor what MS has done, so if they need to pick up ground in genres now, it means they likely will seek a publisher. That shit is inevitable at this point.

"It's shame you people can't tell the difference. Bungie is one studio" lol its a shame you are trying to force a strawman argument, never stated even once they are the same, simply that how they have been purchased and HOW they might purchase another company might be based on some past relationship.

What is being compared here is the HOW they are bought.

ie Sony has relationship with Bluepoint, bought them.
Sony has relationship with Insomniac, bought them.
Sony has relationship with Bungie based on those marketing deals, DLC deals etc.......bought them.

So telling us some fucking deal regarding Finale Fantasy isn't some sign they won't buy Square, good god, if anything that is the sign dat buy out is coming lol It means Sony VALUES that game, IP, team or something and is willing to put a ring on it if need be.

That Zenimax deal was the need be, so who knows who Sony is in talks with right now based on that Activision deal.

If its to be any team, publisher etc, regardless, its likely going to be a company they had dealings with before, so saying that about Square doesn't sound like they are off the rador, it literally sounds like they are in the running for that buy out lol

 

[kyoji]

Konami , I always assumed it was already a Sony studio...

 

[Hendrick's]

The Bungie acquisition helps their case.

 

[Bernkastel]

I think both Activision and Bungie buys should show us nobody knows anything

Both Karak and Skullzi teased ActiBliz. Zenimax was also teased by someone(I used to mention his name here but I forgot).

 

[RydarGaf]

They might as well. Their games don’t sell well on XBOX anyway, so they won’t be losing much

 

[CityHunter1981]

I could totally see Kojima Productions. Kojima feels thankful to Sony for the past and he stated that this was the reason why Death Stranding was exclusive. Now there are the rumors about the Sony funded Silent Hill game, so they have already a good relationship. Kojima wants for sure to be kind of independent and have creative freedom, but Sony mentions that Bungie will have an independency and creative freedom, so Kojima might be willing to join Sony.

 

[darrylgorn]

Here's some basic reading on the subject.

The Antitrust Laws

Congress passed the first antitrust law, the Sherman Act, in 1890 as a "comprehensive charter of economic liberty aimed at preserving free and unfettered competition as the rule of trade." In 1914,

www.ftc.gov

It's to try to ensure competition continues and one company doesn't control an entire market.

For instance if I owned Kellogs they would prevent me from buying General Mills. Or they would block a buyout between Coke and Pepsi.

But if one company makes enough money, haven't they earned the right to own the market?

That's capitalism, isn't it?

Btw, not saying I endorse monopolies, just curious about the moral context behind free markets, etc.

 

[Aguero9320]

In other news, water is wet and the sky is blue.

Any deal this size was going to be reviewed. Reviewed doesn’t mean blocked. Wishful thinking. Comparing it to Nvidia/ARM is just crazy.

 

[Moridianae]

Addendum: Sony, arguably, single-handedly established themselves as a prominent console once they secured Final Fantasy and Squaresoft for PS1.

From Software and Square-Enix would do much to solidify themselves as the goto console for RPGs as they once were known for.

 

[ManaByte]

But if one company makes enough money, haven't they earned the right to own the market?

That's capitalism, isn't it?

MS wouldn’t even own the market after this purchase. They’ll be #3 after Tencent and Sony and only have 12% of the market. There are no mental gymnastics that can make that a monopoly.

 

[DForce]

I'm hoping for Arc System Works, Capcom, and Bandai.

It's farfetched, but a fighting game by Arc with Capcom and Bandai IPs would be amazing.

 

[Elbow Identity Shallow]

I think this was isn't really going to surprise anybody to be honest but Microsoft would have known that anyway, hence them announcing the acquisition as "Microsoft to acquire Activision Blizzard to bring the joy and community of gaming to everyone, across every device".
It may well strange for some but I honestly think that "everything on everything" is where well be a decade or two from now, consoles are expensive and incerdibly riscky to make so removing from, removing disc production and removing ownership from people is just teh obvious progression. I don't like it but in terms of new games, rental and subscription services are inevitability even if people don't like it. It will still be far more profitable for the companies doing it that way and so many of the younger gamer are already happy in teh early stages of what Satya Nadella calls the Metaverse.

 

[EDMIX]

I'm hoping for Arc System Works, Capcom, and Bandai.

It's farfetched, but a fighting game by Arc with Capcom and Bandai IPs would be amazing.

Based on that Evo deal, i would not be shocked if over time they end up buying all 3.

If they plan to corner that market like the did with Anime, expect more buys.

 

[Bonfires Down]

It’s a good thing though. Both companies put everything they develop on Steam. Or you will be able to take advantage of their subscriptions instead if you want.

 

[HundredThousandTrillion]

I bet COD stays multiplat in order for this shit to pass

Nonsense.

Internet Explorer had 95% of the market share when the government cracked down and forced Microsoft to make changes. The XBOX is nowhere as dominant as a console (in 3rd place the last 2 generations) and COD is one of a zillion first person shooters and not even the most popular Battle Royale.

What monopoly?

 

[Oddvintagechap]

Would like to get more details but the article is behind a paywall.

This seems a bit suspect right now.

Is the suggestion that buying out a company of that magnitude should be illegal because it stifles competition?

If so, would this be setting some precedent of socialism in private markets?

It will go through. Dont worry homie.

There will be a slap tho. Maybe they will be forced to honor deals, and/or have a purchasing freeze.

The worst possible thing they would force MS to do is sell Blizzard. If someone agrues that the purchase of Bethesda and Blizzard is anti-competitive. But this is unlikely. Sony/Ea/TakeTwo would probably have to sue to trigger that.

For example Disney had to sell a few assets to keep Fox.

 

[R3claimer117]

Lol people are really believing these standard procedures are more then they are now? This deal is going to pass. The fanboy at the Bloomberg needs to let it die already. It will be ok Jason

 

[reinking]

The Bungie acquisition helps their case.

Sony was forced by the Acti-Blizz announcement to scrape together 3.6 billion to buy a company that only has one good IP. They couldn't even afford to get that IP with the deal. Poor little Sony out here just trying to make a name for themselves and survive.

 

[bender]

-I'm kind of surprised Remedy hasn't happened already by Microsoft or Sony. Maybe their modest success since Max Payne are what is holding them back but I thought Control did really well for them.
-I bet Konami licenses out some of their IPs (MGS, Silent Hill) at some point.
-From and Square seem to be doing fine for themselves so I'm not sure why they'd want to sell at this juncture.
-Capcom can print money with Monster Hunter, Resident Evil and retro releases of their back catalog. Street Fighter has seen better days but they could just do another SF5 styled partnership.

 

[Dream-Knife]

I think with Sony buying Bungie, this will get approved since they can argue about foreign companies buying up publishers.

US govt doesn't seem to care about monopolies anymore.

 

[Kagey K]

But if one company makes enough money, haven't they earned the right to own the market?

That's capitalism, isn't it?

In theory it should work that way, but in reality it doesn't.

MS took a big beat down in the 90s over it and was forced to break the company up and share its technology with other companies, even though they had done all the R&D and creation of most of the technology.

Microsoft would be much bigger company with much less competition had this not happened.

Microsoft Antitrust Case

The Microsoft antitrust case came to be one of the high-profile cases a few decades ago. In the 1990s. U.S. federal regulators sued Microsoft

corporatefinanceinstitute.com

 

[HundredThousandTrillion]

I think this was isn't really going to surprise anybody to be honest but Microsoft would have known that anyway, hence them announcing the acquisition as "Microsoft to acquire Activision Blizzard to bring the joy and community of gaming to everyone, across every device".
It may well strange for some but I honestly think that "everything on everything" is where well be a decade or two from now, consoles are expensive and incerdibly riscky to make so removing from, removing disc production and removing ownership from people is just teh obvious progression. I don't like it but in terms of new games, rental and subscription services are inevitability even if people don't like it. It will still be far more profitable for the companies doing it that way and so many of the younger gamer are already happy in teh early stages of what Satya Nadella calls the Metaverse.

By 'everything on everything' if you mean that we'll get a billion different game streaming services like we have now for TV? Sure.

We were promised television utopia unburdened from the strings of big cable companies. A la cart channel and content viewing. Everything on everything......for $15 a month....each company.....content fragmentation...everywhere.

Expect more of the same.

Youll go from paying $400 once a generation and a dozen $60 games over 6 years. To $20 a here, $30 there, $50 here for the platinum tier and $60 on you card for the pay by minute plan there...MONTHLY.....FOR LIFE.

 

[HundredThousandTrillion]

In theory it should work that way, but in reality it doesn't.

MS took a big beat down in the 90s over it and was forced to break the company up and share its technology with other companies, even though they had done all the R&D and creation of most of the technology.

Microsoft would be much bigger company with much less competition had this not happened.

Microsoft Antitrust Case

The Microsoft antitrust case came to be one of the high-profile cases a few decades ago. In the 1990s. U.S. federal regulators sued Microsoft

corporatefinanceinstitute.com

Completely different situation.

Microsoft was using provable anti competitive measures. They were making it almost impossible for other browsers to compete on the Windows platform (leveraging their dominant market position) because Internet Explorer was tightly integrated at the core. Therefore IE held a 95% grip on the browser market because users had very little choice in the matter.

- the xbox has been in 3rd place the last 2 generations getting it's ass kicked
- tens of thousands of other first person shooters exist
- warzone is barely the most popular battle royale with dozens of alternatives

1) the windows OS dominance ultimately turned out to be ok. 2) it was the leveraging of that dominance on the market that got them into trouble. People need to stop citing this case. Like comparing Apples and Brocolli

 

[Zeroing]

If this was in Europe it would be blocked and the deal would not go ahead! Being USA… it will be approved!

 

[onesvenus]

Both Karak and Skullzi teased ActiBliz. Zenimax was also teased by someone(I used to mention his name here but I forgot).

That's interesting. I didn't knew they teased that outside of saying it'd make sense.

On topic, there's an achievement in RE5 called "It takes two to tango". Is Jeff hinting at Sony buying Capcom? That would be a great grab

It Takes Two to Tango achievement in Resident Evil 5

How to unlock the It Takes Two to Tango achievement in Resident Evil 5: Chain a 40-defeated combo in Team Slayers. This achievement is worth 15 Gamerscore.

www.trueachievements.com

 

[GhostOfTsu]

Jeff Grubb needs to acquire a gilette

 

[Demigod Mac]

But if one company makes enough money, haven't they earned the right to own the market?

That's capitalism, isn't it?

Btw, not saying I endorse monopolies, just curious about the moral context behind free markets, etc.

Been done before and it rarely ever turns out well for anyone.
Capitalism functions best when companies strenuously compete for the market.

 

[kingfey]

Would this mean, the deal will process faster? Considering the FCC are handling the case now.

 

[kingfey]

Can't see this being blocked, we always knew it was going to be reviewed, but it's going to be hard to prove a monopoly or unfair advantage when companies like Sony, Nintendo, Tencent and Embracer exist.

MS can use xbox one entire gen vs Ps4 gen.

That is enough for regulatory to pass it.

 

[Harlock]

Hope Sony buys Sega and make Sonic into a strong lesbian character.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

I just want one ID & Achievements between XBX, PS, N, Steam, Epic, etc.

 

[Tschumi]

More like:

 

[Bonfires Down]

For my tastes, Capcom would easily be the most attractive option. RE and MH are bigger than ever, DMC5 did well, SFVI could do well. I think it’s a bit of a bargain for only a few billion.

 

[MonarchJT]

Sony getting Capcom is my best bet.

I wish they would go after Konami's ips but I don't think that's happening.

The hints...
Microsoft making a monster hunter killer, Capcom closing the arcade business, Sony having bought Evo is also a hint that they want to invest in the FGC, I am confident that that's the acquisition, also Capcom while a Japanese company it has great western appeal.

they hyping it like if is bigger acquisiitij than ms/Activision.,..........Capcom is absolutely not

 

[Kagey K]

Completely different situation.

Microsoft was using provable anti competitive measures. They were making it almost impossible for other browsers to compete on the Windows platform (leveraging their dominant market position) because Internet Explorer was tightly integrated at the core. Therefore IE held a 95% grip on the browser market because users had very little choice in the matter.

- the xbox has been in 3rd place the last 2 generations getting it's ass kicked
- tens of thousands of other first person shooters exist
- warzone is barely the most popular battle royale with dozens of alternatives

1) the windows OS dominance ultimately turned out to be ok. 2) it was the leveraging of that dominance on the market that got them into trouble. People need to stop citing this case. Like comparing Apples and Brocolli

darrylgorn was asking about antitrust and if a company makes enough money don't they have a right to own the market under capitalism.

I was providing an example to prove how that isn't the case.

I by no means think the antitrust suit of the 90s has any relevance in this matter.

 

[MonarchJT]

If they made Destiny (new IP during the PS3\360 days), they can make another one.



I'm assuming they've learned one or two things over the last 10 years when it comes to making MP games, GaaS game, and MTX stuff that Sony would love to put in some of their other games that they are making for the PS5.

they staying indipendent i don't see them leaving destiny soon

 

[SenjutsuSage]

yes, sounds, but even then thats not evidence and they'd have no reason to hide that considering how transparent they are right now



You can, that doesn't mean thats what this is.

None of this would even make any logical sense. Really think about it.

Sony allows them to remain independent.
Sony allows them to self publish.

Strangely leaves out that they are allowing them to keep the IP

Oh yea for 3 billion, a independent team, will self publish an IP you have no rights to....sir you need to even question why any of that would be worth 3 billion.

200 million? Sure we've seen some wild marketing deals, 400 million? hey they are allowing them to have lots of freedom sure. Those deals make more sense as both parties are getting something, but I don't buy Sony spends 3 billion without that IP. Thats is just massively unlikely and even odd that no one from Sony or Bungie would state that, yet tell us of future Destiny releases, future new IP releases, telling us they will self publish and they will be independent. I means they are indeed telling us the meat and potatoes of that deal, but having them keep the IP isn't one of it.

It would just be listed with the other things Sony is allowing, this sounds MORE likely that Sony buying the team and the IP is what the fuck they just paid 3 billion for and being independent and self publishing was likely a condition of the sale of that IP. Sony is already known for giving their teams freedom, they are already known for allowing teams to move on and I don't think they wish to make Destiny something other then what Bungie wants it to be, so its not as if Sony wants to turn that IP into something else, as if that was true why even agree to be sold to Sony? Make a marketing deal as they did in the past or some other exclusivity deal, but you don't give THIS MUCH away for 3 billion.

Sony for the first time in many years is facing a more serious threat than they ever have before, the prospect of being totally shut out from some of the very biggest games across the entire industry. Even if all Bungie was willing to give them with their acquisition is a guarantee that all of their games will come to Playstation and never miss the platform, right now in the situation that Sony finds themselves in, that is absolutely worth paying $3.6 billion for because they Microsoft buying up IP and developers and publishers to not just secure their own platform access to certain games, but to also remove them from Sony's platforms.

Sony now can't just rely on a timed deal or their dominant market share positioning. They now know they can cut two timed exclusive deals with Bethesda, and still end up losing Starfield and the next Elder Scrolls, and all future Fallout games, 3 monumental franchises gone just like that, not to mention Doom. Sony have seen they can have a major marketing deal with Activision for the biggest game in the industry, and even that doesn't protect them from being completely shut out. At this stage spending $3.6 billion to avoid Bungie from being added back into that dangerous fold is totally worth it.

But that isn't all Sony got from this deal. They also get full cooperation and access to all Bungie's proprietary technology and tools, to spread throughout Playstation studios similar technology and expertise on multiplatform, game development with a strong service component. Sony seems to be making this Bungie acquisition a signal towards their new strategy. This represents a full embrace of PC and Playstation day and date releases, and I believe this new project of Bungie's will feature big in their game pass competitor as a day one release. On top of this they've also left open to Bungie's own desire to also release across Xbox consoles. This is a deal in which Sony has given up more than they ever have in the past.

It's also Sony's largest ever acquisition in their entire history. I firmly believe Microsoft's moves ended up making Bungie's price higher or much more agreeable to Sony. Microsoft's purchases has made Sony more desperate than they have been in years, which is good news for me as a PS5 owner, you, it's great news for Xbox gamers and even PC gamers. We all benefit.

If I'm wrong, fine, but I think Sony, as unthinkable as it might seem, has the privilege of owning Bungie and will get access to all their new games and all their technology, but I don't think it means they fully control Bungie's Destiny as much as we are use to seeing Sony control previous game studios in the past.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

Which ones? COD games are contracted for a while still, likely till end of 2023. Microsoft may be charitable with Diablo 4 and Overwatch 2, but what else is there? Sony has the Ghostwire Tokyo deal.. That new Blizzard survival IP definitely ain't heading to Playstation, especially since it hasn't been officially confirmed for platforms.

Well, you already listed a few potential ones. I think CoD will keep coming to PS even after the contract period is done.

 

[Fredrik]

From either side, I'm not a fan of this.

I’ve had all consoles since the PS2 days, in general I don’t care, but if Sony start to pull games from PC into some 3 year delay crap then I’m getting cranky

 

[Kagey K]

Would this mean, the deal will process faster? Considering the FCC are handling the case now.

The quicker it passes regulation, the sooner it will close. They only offered that June '23 timeline in case it got held up in the courts.

 

[bender]

For my tastes, Capcom would easily be the most attractive option. RE and MH are bigger than ever, DMC5 did well, SFVI could do well. I think it’s a bit of a bargain for only a few billion.

But do they want to sell? Further, what major Japanese studios have sold or merged since Square Enix or Namco Bandai?

I’ve had all consoles since the PS2 days, in general I don’t care, but if Sony start to pull games from PC into some 3 year delay crap then I’m getting cranky

I'm not sure what would give you that fear? All the statements from Bungie and Sony indicate the opposite and Sony's support of Playstation games on PC is stronger than ever.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Now its your time Sony

Sony while the FTC is looking at Microsoft and Activision:

 

[EDMIX]

It takes Two was published by EA.

If EA goes to Sony or Microsoft, we are all fucked.

I don't know if EA can go to MS based on the whole monopoly thing with shares, but...tbh I have no clue what that thing even means, how it works lol We've seen so much shit go thru that I don't even think they care, after the Disney Fox buyout and Timewarner deal, its like I don't really see many really giving a fuck when those company do massive buy outs.

Be like "ok, ya'll can't buy something for 500 billion, ya'll can only buy 5 companies WORHT 100 billion" lol

So I think its maybe likely Sony buys EA. It corrects the Zenimax and Activision deal in terms of combating lots of IP, genres etc

Sony has had many marketing deals with EA in the past, but who knows. This generation has been so wild, anything can happen at this point (Apple tries to buy MS) lmfao, only to be blocked and have Amazon buy em lol Who knows.

I'm even shocked that Amazon didn't buy some of those publishers up when they started that dumbass gaming thing, its like......lots can be bought to make this work "makes shitty MMO game instead". So who knows at this point.

 

[bender]

I don't much care for R*'s output these days, but Take Two would be pretty earthshattering and as heavy a hitter as TES, Fallout, and COD.

 

[MonarchJT]

Sony will be at a solid 20 studios by the end of spring

some of them never built a game are just helping studios

 

[Auto_aim1]

Before we talk about acquisitions how much money do Sony have left after the Bungie purchase?

 

[Menzies]

I'd be more worried about what Microsoft will pursue if this does get knocked back. I mean they're not just going to sit on their hands, they'll chase multiple smaller publishers.

 

[Andodalf]

After actually watching the episode, yeah he’s not teasing anything specifically with this statement. He’s just saying it takes two to tango, and everyone is in a dancing mode due to the recent moves + inflation