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[Shmunter]

In all fairness the official quote became worlds most powerful Xbox once comparisons could be made

 

[SlimySnake]

The average difference between the SX and PS5 in DF's unlocked FPS photo mode comparison came out to be 16 to 18% if I'm not mistaken,

Did you read my post? I mention this several times.

We have seen this in other games where Control can have a 18% performance advantage in some scenes and only 1 fps advantage in other scenes.

He went on to test 21 other parts of the game and found an average of 16% better performance but with not much going on.

The fact that it is not consistent is what we are discussing here. For whatever reason, the xsx is able to have that tflops advantage when rendering nothing but pretty scenery with not much going on. We have seen this in Hitman, Metro, Assassins Creed Valhalla and now the Matrix. But the moment things start to get hectic, the moment other visual effects like the infamous torch in AC Valhalla is introduced, the moment you start flying zipping by cars at high speeds, the moment you hit a highly taxing corridor of doom, the xsx starts to lose its advantage.

The PC cards in the corridor of doom all struggle yes, but a 2070 would never outperform a 2080 in that scene or a 3080 would never just match a 3070. All cards will struggle but the more powerful GPUs will always retain their advantage.

Here is a comparison between the 2060 super and the 2070 super from the same video. The XSX's tflops advantage shouldnt just disappear in certain scenarios. THAT is the topic of discussion.

 

[Heisenberg007]

This tweet is now legendary.

I believe this tweet now is one of those fabled, legendary texts that post-apocalyptic-era future generation heroes will revisit the destroyed Earth and unearth this tweet to see what truth looks like.

That storyline can also be made into a video game. A PS5 exclusive game, of course.

 

[Heisenberg007]

 

[Heisenberg007]

Good analysis by NXGamer, but I wonder why DF didn't notice or mention this at all in their 50-minute video? Perhaps they ran out of time.

Anyway, it's good to see both consoles performing well, and I hope we get to see games like these in the future. I'm confident that we'll. When Naughty Dog drops their PS5 exclusive new game, I am confident that it will look better than this, and we'll need a collective effort from human civilization to pick up our jaws.

 

[SlimySnake]

This tweet is now legendary.

I believe this tweet now is one of those fabled, legendary texts that post-apocalyptic-era future generation heroes will revisit the destroyed Earth and unearth this tweet to see what truth looks like.

That storyline can also be made into a video game. A PS5 exclusive game, of course.

I am sorry but aside from the tflops arent everything comment, I think the tweet has aged very poorly. It's been almost 2 years since this tweet and I have yet to see whats to revolutionary about this console. Matrix is literally the only jaw dropping thing ive seen and its also running on the xsx and xss. So what exactly is so inspired and revolutionary about the PS5? Because I have yet to see it. I was looking at their 2022 line up and I saw five cross gen looking games even though 2 of them are supposedly next gen only.

Dollar bet: within a year from its launch gamers will fully appreciate that the PlayStation 5 is one of the most revolutionary, inspired home consoles ever designed, and will feel silly for having spent energy arguing about "teraflops" and other similarly misunderstood specs.

So by the time we get a true next gen game that will be inspired and revolutionary, it would have been 3 years since that tweet because there is nothing next year that comes even close to being revolutionary.

The PS5 is undoubtedly a very efficient and smartly designed console that is somehow keeping up with a console $100 more expensive and 18% more powerful. Well designed, yes, but revolutionary? eh.

 

[isoRhythm]

50-minute video? Perhaps they ran out of time.

 

[MasterCornholio]

The fact that it is not consistent is what we are discussing here.

For me consistent would be Pro Vs X. No matter the game the One X was already ahead of the Pro by a considerable margin. Sure there were some screw ups but a 1440P vs 4K was the typical situation between Pro Vs One X games. With the PS5 and the Series X the comparisons have been all over the place. Which I'm guessing boils down to each systems strengths and what the engine demands.

 

[adamsapple]

The fact that it is not consistent is what we are discussing here. For whatever reason, the xsx is able to have that tflops advantage when rendering nothing but pretty scenery with not much going on. We have seen this in Hitman, Metro, Assassins Creed Valhalla and now the Matrix. But the moment things start to get hectic, the moment other visual effects like the infamous torch in AC Valhalla is introduced, the moment you start flying zipping by cars at high speeds, the moment you hit a highly taxing corridor of doom, the xsx starts to lose its advantage

Couldn't that also be more of a CPU bottleneck ? Alex mentions this in the video as well in one place where both have identical performance, which you posted on the last page as well:

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-
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Because we do see other areas in the same video with RT reflections, and/or captures taken in the middle of explosions where the SX has a 10~ FPS advantage:

The PC cards in the corridor of doom all struggle yes, but a 2070 would never outperform a 2080 in that scene or a 3080 would never just match a 3070. All cards will struggle but the more powerful GPUs will always retain their advantage.

Right, of course, a 2070 would never outperform a 2080. Similarly, in this Control video, I don't think there's a single instance of the PS5 outperforming the SX. It's almost always a difference of 3 to 30% in favor of SX. Again, could there be more than just the GPU being a bottleneck here ?

For me consistent would be Pro Vs X. No matter the game the One X was already ahead of the Pro by a considerable margin. Sure there were some screw ups but a 1440P vs 4K was the typical situation between Pro Vs One X games. With the PS5 and the Series X the comparisons have been all over the place. Which I'm guessing boils down to each systems strengths and what the engine demands.

The One X had *way* more advantages over the Pro than anything we can see between the PS5/SX.

Not only was the TF difference higher than SX to PS5, One X also had 4GB more ram than Pro, it also had higher memory bandwidth etc.

So, the differences were a lot easier to manifest there.

 

[SlimySnake]

Couldn't that also be more of a CPU bottleneck ? Alex mentions this in the video as well in one place where both have identical performance, which you posted on the last page as well:

Because we do see other areas in the same video with RT reflections, and/or captures taken in the middle of explosions where the SX has a 10~ FPS advantage:

Right, of course, a 2070 would never outperform a 2080. Similarly, in this Control video, I don't think there's a single instance of the PS5 outperforming the SX. It's almost always a difference of 3 to 30% in favor of SX. Again, could there be more than just the GPU being a bottleneck here ?

Why would there be a CPU bottleneck in that scene? There is really nothing going on there. That's just Alex talking out of his ass like usual.

The PS5 and XSX are literally neck and neck in those two screenshots ive posted. That will never ever happen with the 2070 and 2080.

 

[adamsapple]

The PS5 and XSX are literally neck and neck in those two screenshots ive posted. That will never ever happen with the 2070 and 2080.

I get that, but for every 2 scenes where they're neck and neck, there's 8 scenes they aren't.

And they're not just 'idly standing by in empty corridor' scenes either, I've posted an example of a busy explosive scene with physics and RT reflections where there's an 11 FPS advantage. And if you look at the graph at the bottom, its a sustained advantage, not just a momentary advantage for the moment that screen shot is from.

edit:

This was posted around the time this video first went live, seems to be a fairly apt statement. Covid has hampered development all around so we're not exactly seeing quick turnaround of game releases and engine enhancements either. So, needless to say we're in for a long generation and we're only scratching the surface of what these consoles will be able to do in a few years time.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I am sorry but aside from the tflops arent everything comment, I think the tweet has aged very poorly. It's been almost 2 years since this tweet and I have yet to see whats to revolutionary about this console. Matrix is literally the only jaw dropping thing ive seen and its also running on the xsx and xss. So what exactly is so inspired and revolutionary about the PS5? Because I have yet to see it. I was looking at their 2022 line up and I saw five cross gen looking games even though 2 of them are supposedly next gen only.

Your complaint is about software, which is fair. The tweet was about the hardware, which, don't you think, has surpassed expectations already?

Pre-launch expectations (from some people) were that PS5 will be destroyed in 1:1 comparisons with XSX. That has not been the case. In fact, in many comparisons, including this one, PS5 came out on top.

So, in all essence,

• PS5 Digital (a $400 console) is neck-to-neck with XSX (a $500 console) and sometimes even outperforrms it.
• 10 TF is equal to or greater than 12 TF.
• In addition, the same $400 PS5 packs in a controller with cutting-edge tech, at least 2x faster SSD, and compatibility with VR gaming.

In terms of graphical performance, we have seen what the PS5 can do in the UE5 2020 Demo. That was so early in the gen when the console hadn't even launched. But PS5 could render and play all that. By mid-gen or late-gen, the games will be phenomenal.

All-in-all, PS5 is still indeed a revolutionary console for the fact alone that its GPU punches above its weight, and cutting costs there allowed for additions elsewhere: VR support, DualSense, 2x SSD, etc. All at $100 less than its direct competitor.

 

[Sosokrates]

That would be closer to 70% of the time

The only info which matters is that Epic could not do the valley demo on XSX because they did not get dev kits early enough, so its not only a matter of time but the fact they already had UE5 up and running well on the PS5 long enough before it was running on xsx to not release the valley tech demo

 

[sircaw]

Your complaint is about software, which is fair. The tweet was about the hardware, which, don't you think, has surpassed expectations already?

Pre-launch expectations (from some people) were that PS5 will be destroyed in 1:1 comparisons with XSX. That has not been the case. In fact, in many comparisons, including this one, PS5 came out on top.

So, in all essence,

• PS5 Digital (a $400 console) is neck-to-neck with XSX (a $500 console) and sometimes even outperforrms it.
• 10 TF is equal to or greater than 12 TF.
• In addition, the same $400 PS5 packs in a controller with cutting-edge tech, at least 2x faster SSD, and compatibility with VR gaming.

In terms of graphical performance, we have seen what the PS5 can do in the UE5 2020 Demo. That was so early in the gen when the console hadn't even launched. But PS5 could render and play all that. By mid-gen or late-gen, the games will be phenomenal.

All-in-all, PS5 is still indeed a revolutionary console for the fact alone that its GPU punches above its weight, and cutting costs there allowed for additions elsewhere: VR support, DualSense, 2x SSD, etc. All at $100 less than its direct competitor.

That's quite a compelling argument when you put it like that.

 

[onQ123]

The only info which matters is that Epic could not do the valley demo on XSX because they did not get dev kits early enough, so its not only a matter of time but the fact they already had UE5 up and running well on the PS5 long enough before it was running on xsx to not release the valley tech demo

That would have matter if the Matrix Demo was released a year ago but today that small amount of extra time with PS5 devkit is nothing . Xbox Series X is not exotic hardware.

 

[SlimySnake]

Your complaint is about software, which is fair. The tweet was about the hardware, which, don't you think, has surpassed expectations already?

Pre-launch expectations (from some people) were that PS5 will be destroyed in 1:1 comparisons with XSX. That has not been the case. In fact, in many comparisons, including this one, PS5 came out on top.

So, in all essence,

• PS5 Digital (a $400 console) is neck-to-neck with XSX (a $500 console) and sometimes even outperforrms it.
• 10 TF is equal to or greater than 12 TF.
• In addition, the same $400 PS5 packs in a controller with cutting-edge tech, at least 2x faster SSD, and compatibility with VR gaming.

In terms of graphical performance, we have seen what the PS5 can do in the UE5 2020 Demo. That was so early in the gen when the console hadn't even launched. But PS5 could render and play all that. By mid-gen or late-gen, the games will be phenomenal.

All-in-all, PS5 is still indeed a revolutionary console for the fact alone that its GPU punches above its weight, and cutting costs there allowed for additions elsewhere: VR support, DualSense, 2x SSD, etc. All at $100 less than its direct competitor.

I think it has definitely surpassed my expectations, but again, I wouldnt call it revolutionary just yet.

I suppose the flying section of the UE5 demo was as close to revolutionary as it gets, but I expected that stuff in games by now based on what he said. Thats why I keep harping on the flying in Horizon. I want to see Aloy fly around the map at those speeds with that asset quality.

I get that, but for every 2 scenes where they're neck and neck, there's 8 scenes they aren't.

And they're not just 'idly standing by in empty corridor' scenes either, I've posted an example of a busy explosive scene with physics and RT reflections where there's an 11 FPS advantage. And if you look at the graph at the bottom, its a sustained advantage, not just a momentary advantage for the moment that screen shot is from.

When standing around in the Matrix demo, both consoles are fine. Even when driving around in a slow car, they are both equal. It's when they start flying at fast speeds, the xsx starts to lag behind. That's why I am bringing up those two screenshots because when the load is high, the xsx drops to PS5 levels which is something a better GPU simply should never do.

Those comparisons Alex took are from photomode so looking at the graph is not exactly accurate because the load doesnt change. Once he goes into the photomode, the game effectively pauses and the game only renders whats on screen. The XSX version of control had several framerate issues back when it first launched anyway. The PS5 was performing better in game which is why that comparison was so surprising.

 

[Bogroll]

I am sorry but aside from the tflops arent everything comment, I think the tweet has aged very poorly. It's been almost 2 years since this tweet and I have yet to see whats to revolutionary about this console. Matrix is literally the only jaw dropping thing ive seen and its also running on the xsx and xss. So what exactly is so inspired and revolutionary about the PS5? Because I have yet to see it. I was looking at their 2022 line up and I saw five cross gen looking games even though 2 of them are supposedly next gen only.

Nothing (for both consoles) the sooner people realise that these consoles are basically just PC's the better for their expectations. Gone are the days when consoles would have custom chips that PC's wouldn't have and if there is anything these days Pc's catch up within weeks.
The revolution and inspiration has to come from software for the next 5 years.
For example .I would like to see more physics in games. I'm fed up of walking round some of the beautiful graphic scenes that you just bounce a little off without even touching them and the better the resolution graphics etc highlights it even more.
Sure there has to be gameplay balance but there must be a better way.

 

[Sosokrates]

For me consistent would be Pro Vs X. No matter the game the One X was already ahead of the Pro by a considerable margin. Sure there were some screw ups but a 1440P vs 4K was the typical situation between Pro Vs One X games. With the PS5 and the Series X the comparisons have been all over the place. Which I'm guessing boils down to each systems strengths and what the engine demands.

One would hope the difference between ps5 and xsx is not like 1x vs pro.

The 1x was a lot more powerful than the pro then the xsx is compared to the ps5

To put things onto perspective if the pro was the same difference as the ps5 has to the xsx


It would be 5tflops, the same 12gb of ram @260GB/s

If that was the case the performance delta would be more like the xsx and PS5.

 

[adamsapple]

When standing around in the Matrix demo, both consoles are fine. Even when driving around in a slow car, they are both equal. It's when they start flying at fast speeds, the xsx starts to lag behind. That's why I am bringing up those two screenshots because when the load is high, the xsx drops to PS5 levels which is something a better GPU simply should never do.

Those comparisons Alex took are from photomode so looking at the graph is not exactly accurate because the load doesnt change. Once he goes into the photomode, the game effectively pauses and the game only renders whats on screen. The XSX version of control had several framerate issues back when it first launched anyway. The PS5 was performing better in game which is why that comparison was so surprising.

I think we can also chalk the first bolded part down in-part to that Epic seems to have Coalition take care of the Xbox 'port' of the Matrix Awakens, going by the article on Xbox.com, epic contacted Coalition sometime early 2021 to get them on board.

It seems like they were primarily focused on developing it on the PS5 and either didn't have enough manpower, or expertise, to bring it to the two Series consoles in-house. This is just my speculation going by the timeline of events.

--

For the second bolded part, that issue was weird but fixed since launch, it was an issue even the PC version had, and Remedy was looking into it by the time DF posted their first article (mentioned in it).

However, DF have since gone and said the issue is completely fixed. And they're saying the game itself didn't get any update to fix this, it was thanks to the Xbox system/environment updates over time going by how Rich and Alex talk about it in the clip below, which is a very interesting point that needs more research:

 

[Sosokrates]

That would have matter if the Matrix Demo was released a year ago but today that small amount of extra time with PS5 devkit is nothing . Xbox Series X is not exotic hardware.

Judging by the performance of the matrix demo, this is not the case.

Also its a fact that the amount of extra time Epic had with the PS5 was significant enough that they could not release the valley demo on the XSX.

 

[Sosokrates]

if there are sinister things about DF it started with the addition of Alex to the Team.. the PC Masterrace Terminology and his ignorance when it comes to console advantages ..
The Guy needs to go.. i had hopes for Corona but since its a mere better flew chances are low ..
edit: Stalker 2 is not a hard locked Xbox Eclusive , right? Its only a timed Exclusivity, isn´t it?

Are u seriously saying you wished Alex got Corona which resulted him leaving DF?

 

[Vognerful]

Guys, if you think that these demos are "optimized enough" for these machines, then you should also believe that we will not see games running better than 1080 30fps.

 

[MasterCornholio]

One would hope the difference between ps5 and xsx is not like 1x vs pro.

The 1x was a lot more powerful than the pro then the xsx is compared to the ps5

To put things onto perspective if the pro was the same difference as the ps5 has to the xsx


It would be 5tflops, the same 12gb of ram @260GB/s

If that was the case the performance delta would be more like the xsx and PS5.

Well with the initial GitHub leak some sites said the differences would be like Pro Vs X. But it's nice that didn't happen.

Mostly referring to people like Dealer Gaming btw.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I think it has definitely surpassed my expectations, but again, I wouldnt call it revolutionary just yet.

I suppose the flying section of the UE5 demo was as close to revolutionary as it gets, but I expected that stuff in games by now based on what he said. Thats why I keep harping on the flying in Horizon. I want to see Aloy fly around the map at those speeds with that asset quality.

Fair enough, but again that's specifically about software -- which depends on game developers, not the hardware team. And the tweet was only about the hardware.

And I'd have shared the same sentiment if I hadn't seen the UE5 demo (the flying, asset quality, etc.). With that demo, the power of the hardware has been proven. With time, software will come. We'll be able to do all that and more using this same hardware. With COVID, rising game dev cost, longer production time, and cross-gen games, it will take longer than usual, but it's still the same HW that we have (PS5) that will play games like that.

 

[Sosokrates]

Well with the initial GitHub leak some sites said the differences would be like Pro Vs X. But it's nice that didn't happen.

Mostly referring to people like Dealer Gaming btw.

Theres no shortage of crazy opinions on the internet on all sides.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Judging by the performance of the matrix demo, this is not the case.

Also its a fact that the amount of extra time Epic had with the PS5 was significant enough that they could not release the valley demo on the XSX.

How did we come to that conclusion? Is there any evidence for that?

Most possibly it was Sony's partnership with Epic, tech knowledge sharing, their investment in the company (almost half a billion $ by now), and the marketing deal that led to that PS5 exclusive demo. Epic has always released UE5 versions for both PS5 and Xbox at the same time, implying that they have always been working on both consoles at the same time.

 

[Md Ray]

When Naughty Dog drops their PS5 exclusive new game, I am confident that it will look better than this, and we'll need a collective effort from human civilization to pick up our jaws.

This x1000.

 

[Sosokrates]

How did we come to that conclusion? Is there any evidence for that?

Most possibly it was Sony's partnership with Epic, tech knowledge sharing, their investment in the company (almost half a billion $ by now), and the marketing deal that led to that PS5 exclusive demo. Epic has always released UE5 versions for both PS5 and Xbox at the same time, implying that they have always been working on both consoles at the same time.

 

[sircaw]

any guesses as to what the two biggest trade- off would be between both machines?

 

[Lysandros]

Now I know having more CUs will make RT better on the system but it certainly has enough of them for RT.

Having higher clocked CUs also make RT 'better'.

 

[Fredrik]

Guys, if you think that these demos are "optimized enough" for these machines, then you should also believe that we will not see games running better than 1080 30fps.

Even with some wizard coding to the metal I honestly can’t see any scenario where we get a proper game with these visuals at 60fps on these consoles. They need to double the frame times and still leave room for AI and other game calculations. Hopefully 60fps will be reached on the X/Pro upgrades though, it will be interesting to see who launch first, hopefully it’ll happen before any big game built from the ground up for UE5 is out. But if we stay in the present day not too distans future I can’t wait to test this demo on PC!

 

[Negotiator101]

Even with some wizard coding to the metal I honestly can’t see any scenario where we2 get a proper game with these visuals at 60fps on these consoles. They need to double the frame times and still leave room for AI and other game calculations. Hopefully 60fps will be reached on the X/Pro upgrades though, it will be interesting to see who reach there first, hopefully it’ll happen before any big game built from the ground up for UE5 is out. But if we stay in the present I can’t wait to test this demo on PC!

30fps is obviously the target for this level of fidelity, Hellblade 2 is the only game we've seen so far that is visually at a similar level to this demo and it's 30fps. I'm afraid to say if you want next generation graphics at 60fps PC is the only option as I don't see any pro upgrade happening.

 

[Fredrik]

30fps is obviously the target for this level of fidelity, Hellblade 2 is the only game we've seen so far that is visually at a similar level to this demo and it's 30fps. I'm afraid to say if you want next generation graphics at 60fps PC is the only option as I don't see any pro upgrade happening.

Why wouldn’t an upgrade happen? After the UE5 demo it seems like a must. Devs will jump onto this engine left and right and gamers have expressed where they want things to go, the gulf between PC and consoles will grow bigger than ever unless they upgrade the consoles and it’ll come with loud complaining if that means 30fps or big sacrifices.

 

[Sosokrates]

any guesses as to what the two biggest trade- off would be between both machines?

Who knows, what hes refering to here. It could be anything.

E.g
The fact that you have to make a seriesS/X game/demo for two consoles
Moving from SDK to GDK
more bloated dev environment
Split memory bandwidth
Less time and experience with the hardware

For the PS5 it could be
Less overall memory bandwidth
Less compute

Who knows.

 

[Negotiator101]

Why wouldn’t an upgrade happen? After the UE5 demo it seems like a must. Devs will jump onto this engine left and right and gamers have expressed where they want things to go, the gulf between PC and consoles will grow bigger than ever unless they upgrade the consoles and it’ll come with loud complaining if that means 30fps or big sacrifices.

I'm thinking chip shortages would be a deciding factor but you never know.

 

[TheTechnician]

Are u seriously saying you wished Alex got Corona which resulted him leaving DF?

No - i hoped it would take him to the next world/ realm/ afterlife and him leaving DF that way..

 

[Darsxx82]

Another thing that confirms my feelings that I expressed as soon as I read the Xbox Wire article and The Coalition's work for the Matrix demo. It is definitely clear:

1- that if MS / The Coalition had not taken charge of porting and optimizing the XSeries versions ..... there would only have been a PS5 version that is surely the base.

2-That the small team at Epic clearly has more experience with PS5 hardware to the point of requiring TC support.

Clearly MS saw that they had to do something and avoid the Sony Marketing blow with a demo of this impact being exclusive for PS5.

 

[Sosokrates]

No - i hoped it would take him to the next world/ realm/ afterlife and him leaving DF that way..

If you want somone dead because of videogames, theres something wrong with you.

 

[Elog]

When standing around in the Matrix demo, both consoles are fine. Even when driving around in a slow car, they are both equal. It's when they start flying at fast speeds, the xsx starts to lag behind. That's why I am bringing up those two screenshots because when the load is high, the xsx drops to PS5 levels which is something a better GPU simply should never do.

We are still having the conversation what a good GPU is.

When the specifications were leaked re PS5 and XSX the majority of the internet and the MS marketing machine proclaimed hardware superiority.

We were many pointing out that it was not as simple as stating that 12 TFLOPs > 10 TFLOPs - that is not what single handedly will define good graphical performance gong forward.

A short memory lane: Last generation was all about TFLOPs across platforms. Every additional TFLOP generated higher resolution and/ or frame rates. That lead people to believe that this relationship would be forever despite evidence of the contrary. There is a brutal diminishing return curve for resolution/ FPS for TFLOPs at around high single-digit TFLOP numbers unless you run a dated game with poor visuals.

What causes this diminishing return? I/O. With more advanced graphics such as procedurally generated pieces (by the CPU), high resolution textures and RT the speed by which information can be moved and utilised between various storage units (SSD, RAM, VRAM, caches) and computational hardware pieces such as the GPU and the CPU also become rate-limiting rather than only the raw computational power of either the CPU or the GPU itself.

Sony made the prediction that investing extra money into I/O would pay off better than adding additional TFLOPs at around the 10 TFLOP number. That is the main difference between the two consoles - higher TFLOP number vs faster I/O.

That it already this early in this generation starts to perform this well is a good sign that Sony were right - and it means that the hardware specifications of the PC platform needs updating since the I/O reference pieces are archaic and poor. The PC platform is currently quite poor at moving information between the devices connected together on a motherboard - both hardware specifications and the Windows software holds it back.

Interesting times for a lover of graphics and hardware.

 

[TheTechnician]

If you want somone dead because of videogames, theres something wrong with you.

Oh c'mon on now.. we all leave this realm at some point.. him leaving a little earlier is not a big deal in the bigger picture.. or you or me..
We all are just star dust..
Thats being said - i hope he bought his ticket already .
I have my funs if he goes first .

 

[[Sigma]]

No - i hoped it would take him to the next world/ realm/ afterlife and him leaving DF that way..

 

[sncvsrtoip]

RT actually scales with both tflops and CUs, so any disadvantage the XSX might have in traditional rasterization due to bottlenecked CUs will manifest itself in ray traced games like the Matrix demo. We have seen this in other games where Control can have a 18% performance advantage in some scenes and only 1 fps advantage in other scenes.

Alex tested the corridor of doom like he always does to run ray traced benchmarks and found a lousy 1 fps difference in the most RT intensive part of the game. If RT scaled with only CUs then the XSX wouldve had 18% better performance in every single scenario. He went on to test 21 other parts of the game and found an average of 16% better performance but with not much going on. The XSX was dropping frames whenever there was action. Then we see screens like below where the performance is nearly identical in highly intensive ray traced corridors. Something is holding back the XSX when shit hits the fan, and I suspect the same is happening in the Matrix demo when they start to fly around or drive really fast. Maybe it's the GPU or the memory setup or maybe it's Cerny's magic sperm. Whatever the reason, this shouldnt really happen when there is a 18% tflops difference and a 44% difference in CUs between two GPUs.

rt capabilities always scale same as other compute things with clocks and CUs (so same 18% diff as with tflops), talking only about CUs advantage was just false marketing

 

[Panajev2001a]

Another thing that confirms my feelings that I expressed as soon as I read the Xbox Wire article and The Coalition's work for the Matrix demo. It is definitely clear:

1- that if MS / The Coalition had not taken charge of porting and optimizing the XSeries versions ..... there would only have been a PS5 version that is surely the base.

2-That the small team at Epic clearly has more experience with PS5 hardware to the point of requiring TC support.

Clearly MS saw that they had to do something and avoid the Sony Marketing blow with a demo of this impact being exclusive for PS5.

Again, this would point to good system Architecture choices by Cerny’s team.

System is easy to develop for (despite the TFLOPS disparity and memory bandwidth delta, the overall sustained performance is better than some expected), the devkit was available early on for third parties, UE5 did not require Sony’s ICE team or equivalent to optimise the PS5 version (with one of the most experienced MS teams with UE5 we have essentially parity between XSX and PS5, PS5 still being able to pull ahead in some cases), etc…

SoC is smaller and even at a high clockspeed yields seem to be good and the system already not selling at a loss (stopped to relatively early on).

This is not to talk down on the XSX, well designed system too (and yes less ugly and less noisy), but to give props where they are due.

 

[assurdum]

The PS5 is undoubtedly a very efficient and smartly designed console that is somehow keeping up with a console $100 more expensive and 18% more powerful. Well designed, yes, but revolutionary? eh.

Actually neither the pc hardware can't keep such fast I/O configuration; how would you name it if isn't it revolutionary such approach in the hardware design?

 

[Lysandros]

rt capabilities always scale same as other compute things with clocks and CUs (so same 18% diff as with tflops), talking only about CUs advantage was just false marketing

Indeed. And saying that XSX has a straight 18% advantage in RT capabilities is misleading as well since RT performance is also affected by other things such as cache performance/bandwidth and PS5 has the overall advantage there. It can equally calculate up to 22% bounces per ray cast compared to XSX since this doesn't scale by CU number.

 

[Darsxx82]

Oh c'mon on now.. we all leave this realm at some point.. him leaving a little earlier is not a big deal in the bigger picture.. or you or me..
We all are just star dust..
Thats being said - i hope he bought his ticket already .
I have my funs if he goes first .

Your post is despicable.....

 

[Panajev2001a]

Nothing (for both consoles) the sooner people realise that these consoles are basically just PC's the better for their expectations. Gone are the days when consoles would have custom chips that PC's wouldn't have and if there is anything these days Pc's catch up within weeks.
The revolution and inspiration has to come from software for the next 5 years.
For example .I would like to see more physics in games. I'm fed up of walking round some of the beautiful graphic scenes that you just bounce a little off without even touching them and the better the resolution graphics etc highlights it even more.
Sure there has to be gameplay balance but there must be a better way.

Consoles are still semi custom chips and running customised OS and libraries that do not have to maintain the same abstracted compatibility with the huge variety of CPU’s and GPU’s configurations (and their drivers/microcode) as PC’s do. Some if the features that arrive on PC have been financed as semi custom changes, some are exposed to the console API’s sooner or better…

XSX titles can use DirectStorage today, on PC it is still a distant beta, for example.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Oh c'mon on now.. we all leave this realm at some point.. him leaving a little earlier is not a big deal in the bigger picture.. or you or me..
We all are just star dust..
Thats being said - i hope he bought his ticket already .
I have my funs if he goes first .

This is quite horrible to say… over freaking consoles too. Mod of War Bill O'Rights

 

[Panajev2001a]

We are still having the conversation what a good GPU is.

When the specifications were leaked re PS5 and XSX the majority of the internet and the MS marketing machine proclaimed hardware superiority.

We were many pointing out that it was not as simple as stating that 12 TFLOPs > 10 TFLOPs - that is not what single handedly will define good graphical performance gong forward.

A short memory lane: Last generation was all about TFLOPs across platforms. Every additional TFLOP generated higher resolution and/ or frame rates. That lead people to believe that this relationship would be forever despite evidence of the contrary. There is a brutal diminishing return curve for resolution/ FPS for TFLOPs at around high single-digit TFLOP numbers unless you run a dated game with poor visuals.

What causes this diminishing return? I/O. With more advanced graphics such as procedurally generated pieces (by the CPU), high resolution textures and RT the speed by which information can be moved and utilised between various storage units (SSD, RAM, VRAM, caches) and computational hardware pieces such as the GPU and the CPU also become rate-limiting rather than only the raw computational power of either the CPU or the GPU itself.

Sony made the prediction that investing extra money into I/O would pay off better than adding additional TFLOPs at around the 10 TFLOP number. That is the main difference between the two consoles - higher TFLOP number vs faster I/O.

That it already this early in this generation starts to perform this well is a good sign that Sony were right - and it means that the hardware specifications of the PC platform needs updating since the I/O reference pieces are archaic and poor. The PC platform is currently quite poor at moving information between the devices connected together on a motherboard - both hardware specifications and the Windows software holds it back.

Interesting times for a lover of graphics and hardware.

I think PS5 overall feels like even better architected and balanced (as holistic system design goes) than PS4. Both balance between GPU clockspeed, CU count, and CU to Shader Array/Engines configuration, etc…. as well as CPU performance in AI/Physics/GP code.

Data flow to CU’s, from GPU caches to CU’s, from memory to GPU, and from SSD to memory. Making it easy to handle (I/O decompression pipeline is very fast even when almost completely abstracted from devs). Reducing stalls/lowering latency, reducing cache misses and avoiding to trash / flushing the caches unnecessarily when streaming data, etc… never seemed like a brute force approach tbf.

 

[Clear]

Its probably worth considering that some or all of the innovative techniques used by UE5 will end up in other proprietary engines.

Obviously Epic are well ahead of everyone else because they have massive dev resources, not to mention partnerships with hardware vendors, but at the end of the day they are a software company offering a package for clients to use - so they can't really hide their innovations.

To some extent its almost unavoidable as well given the competitive nature of the space, I mean although we've not seen the same sort of upgrade elsewhere yet, we're still very much in the cross-gen period and so most games will have been architected with 2013 tech and its limitations in mind.