mitchman
Gold Member
It's within the margin of error.
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The PS5 worked fine with the slowest compatible SSD we could find
Shmunter
Member
Exactly that. After the PS3 however, the cell is what put Sony on a dev first path. No shortage of dev comments about how easy tapping console features and potential has been since then.
GymWolf
Member
It is very smart to allow external SSDs slower than what is originally inside ps5, just another shit that developers have to work on...
We completely lost the essence of "games made with a single hardware in mind".
I hope that at least the exclusive games are gonna have a tag that say "ps5 internal ssd requested".
We completely lost the essence of "games made with a single hardware in mind".
I hope that at least the exclusive games are gonna have a tag that say "ps5 internal ssd requested".
Negotiator101
Member
It proves one thing, that you fanboys don't have the education to know when you're wrong.
assurdum
Banned
The same brilliant argument by the same people as always
we are still waiting to see the magical full RDNA2, ML and velocity architecture set the world on fire.
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strange headache
Banned
So a regular SSD is enough, whodathunkit. So much for the "these games can only run on PS5, PC is doomed" crowd... 
Between the SSD marketing hype and the Unreal demo, I'm starting to think console fanboys lap up these PR buzzwords way too eagerly.
Between the SSD marketing hype and the Unreal demo, I'm starting to think console fanboys lap up these PR buzzwords way too eagerly.
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
LOL, now you're paraphrasing Quint (Robert Shaw) in Jaws at me!
And the actuality is that you're the obvious fanboy with an axe to grind, I'm just pointing out the facts of the matter.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
the guy who made the PS4, wich was made specifically because Devs hated the PS3, for Devs and taking their need into account was hired again for PS5 with the goal to make it even more Dev friendly.
M Cerny knows what he is doing and has massive Dev feedback to argue against Sony suits who would have liked nothing more then a cheaper SSD.
PS3 was a fever dream.
ZywyPL
Banned
So many "you just wait!" comments, how ironic. Like what will happen in 2-3 years, Sony will overclock the CPU and GPU via FW update or what?
Sure, Insomniac said they aren't maxing out the bandwidth, but at the same time they said they're already fully utilizing the CPU, with a game as simple as R&C. Same for GPU, hence separate fidelity and oerformance modes.
Of course, with time the visials will get better, but that will come from further engine optimizations, not more data streamed, like for example added RT to performance mode in Spider-Man.
The reality is, for the next 1-2 years nost games will be still cross-gen, made with HDDs in mind, and after that Sony will be already deep onto PC narket, so they'll have to take that into consideration as well, meaning any Gen4 PCIE SSD will do.
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Sure, Insomniac said they aren't maxing out the bandwidth, but at the same time they said they're already fully utilizing the CPU, with a game as simple as R&C. Same for GPU, hence separate fidelity and oerformance modes.
Of course, with time the visials will get better, but that will come from further engine optimizations, not more data streamed, like for example added RT to performance mode in Spider-Man.
The reality is, for the next 1-2 years nost games will be still cross-gen, made with HDDs in mind, and after that Sony will be already deep onto PC narket, so they'll have to take that into consideration as well, meaning any Gen4 PCIE SSD will do.
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Gen.Grievous
Member
Try to read the article the next time.So a regular SSD is enough, whodathunkit. So much for the "these games can only run on PS5, PC is doomed" crowd...
Between the SSD marketing hype and the Unreal demo, I'm starting to think console fanboys lap up these PR buzzwords way too eagerly.
MasterCornholio
Member
That's just FUD spreading on your part. Every PS5 has a 5.5GB/s internal drive. The games that need that speed to be playable will be installed on it. That's why Sony doesn't guarantee the same performance with slower drive. They literally warn you that if performance isn't adequate you need to install it on the internal drive.
Developers will design their games around the internal drive first because thats what everyone has. Then if their game doesn't need those 5.5GB/s they will be perfectly playable on the NVME. If not users will have to move it to the internal drive.
Your suggesting that Sony is going to out a hard cap on data transfer speeds so that the game will perform the same on even the most slowest of drives. According to the proof that's out there that won't happen.
You install a slower drive and if a game requires a faster one you will see a downgrade in performance. If it becomes unplayable you just shift it to the soldered drive.
Warnen
Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
The same brilliant argument by the same people as always
Same argument? I’m actually shocked that stuff like ratchet ran off a slow ssd, I bought the marketing that the faster drive was needed.
I guess if you mean the fact don’t believe marketing then yeah, it’s that same argument again.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Its weird to me, the way people interpret statements without considering the context in which they were made.
Look at this way, Insomniac's tech guys aren't in the business of comparing performance between different SSD's. They are looking to implement specific design goals on a very specific piece of hardware. That's the context of their comments and how you should take any statements they make as to how surprised/impressed they are by what's possible.
They wouldn't know how much impact using a slower SSD would have on the code because they'd have no need to know that going in, as its outside the scope of their responsibility. Same deal with judging the impact of the PS5's i/o stack as a whole relatively to SSD function/throughput, its not a circumstance they'll have had need to calculate for and factor into their implementation.
Their perspective is that of when they had this particular configuration as a sure thing, and you need to understand their comments through that lens.
Look at this way, Insomniac's tech guys aren't in the business of comparing performance between different SSD's. They are looking to implement specific design goals on a very specific piece of hardware. That's the context of their comments and how you should take any statements they make as to how surprised/impressed they are by what's possible.
They wouldn't know how much impact using a slower SSD would have on the code because they'd have no need to know that going in, as its outside the scope of their responsibility. Same deal with judging the impact of the PS5's i/o stack as a whole relatively to SSD function/throughput, its not a circumstance they'll have had need to calculate for and factor into their implementation.
Their perspective is that of when they had this particular configuration as a sure thing, and you need to understand their comments through that lens.
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lol
probably you don't know but also the xsx Decompressor could use oodle kraken algorithm if they just want
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rickybooby87
Member
I'm curious to see if anyone has benchmarked RE8 on the M.2 drive? The PS5 was already loading the game 2-3 times faster on internal SSD. If they can still keep that up, then Sony's storage API and controller are no joke. Can you imagine getting 1TB of storage for for like $130? That's insane.
No no only PS5 has a magic decompresser, they worked on it for 10 years , underground … didn’t you get that memo?
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rickybooby87
Member
Ahh yes, that's why there is a growing trend of smaller game file sizes and faster load times on PS5. Nailed it.
MasterCornholio
Member
I know it does but it's said the PS5s decompressor is more powerful. A higher level of compression does require more power which is why Sony chose that decompressor for the PS5.
So Kraken would work on the Series consoles but the performance wouldn't be the same as the PS5 due to the decompressor being weaker. Now Microsoft wasn't focused on Kraken but BCpak which doesn't compress as much which is why their decompressor isn't as powerful as Sony's.
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I still think its great for people on a tighter budget that slower and cheaper drives are working with todays games.
People saying future games will need faster drives.
Great you still have the internal SSD for games that simply HAVE to have those speeds which who knows how long it will take to see those games.
Win/win in my book
MasterCornholio
Member
Well when it comes to that the big reason is that all PS5 dev kits have access to Oodles Textures and Kraken. It's going to be the compression format that most developers will use. Plus the hardware is built to use them so it's pretty much eady for developers to make that decision.
ReBurn
Gold Member
Well of course, Sony couldn't afford to go with another complicated architecture like PS3. It was needlessly expensive and difficult to develop for. There was no shortage of dev comments about how much they hated developing for PS3. Even their own developers complained about how complicated the architecture was. Moving to x64 was a necessary course correction.
assurdum
Banned
You know right we are at the start of the generation and developers don't know yet how to push such faster data in an useful manner? Just to say eh. You can't pretend they are capable to use it at the maximum speed already. It's blatantly ignorant.
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i don't thjnnn that PS5 have "stronger" Decompressor they are just using diff algorithmI know it does but it's said the PS5s decompressor is more powerful. A higher level of compression does require more power which is why Sony chose that decompressor for the PS5.
So Kraken would work on the Series consoles but the performance wouldn't be the same as the PS5 due to the decompressor being weaker. Now Microsoft wasn't focused on Kraken but BCpak which doesn't compress as much which is why their decompressor isn't as powerful as Sony's.
YeulEmeralda
Member
PC holding back consoles.
3liteDragon
Member
Except they can’t because they don’t have their own dedicated decompressor for Kraken-format data, which means that data would have to go through the CPU, utilizing all 8 cores while it’s trying to run a game.
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Warnen
Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
I’m just not seeing your point. ”Fans” have been saying for months ratchet and clank can only be done thanks to the speed of the SSD. Turns out that wasn’t true. Your answer well wait till later…. Yeah no shit stuff gets better later in a gen…
MasterCornholio
Member
Actually they do have a stronger decompressor.
Notice how both are talking about the hardware decompressors?
Anyways you know by now both figures were confirmed by the manufacturer.
Whether you accept that or not is up to you.
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MasterCornholio
Member
Couldn't they just use the XSXs decompressor?
But if they do I can imagine it would take longer to decompress the data due to the decompressor being equivalent to 5 Zen 2 cores instead of 9 Zen 2 cores.
Just trying to understand this from a tech point of view. I'm really not trying to console war with this.
I think Sony is using the ssd speed for their sales, 10 million ps5 sold is crazy fast......
Negotiator101
Member
At least you have good taste in movies.
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
It's always the same. Let's quote pr. Only possible cause bla bla bla. Turns out not to be true. Oh I meant for later bla bla bla. It's just a vicious bullshit circle.
3liteDragon
Member
Would love to be fact-checked on this but I don’t think Kraken-format data can go through the Series consoles’ LZW (Lempel-Ziv-Welch) decompressors.
It’s either that the console must have a dedicated Kraken decompressor like the PS5 or it must be decompressed by the CPU, like how it was done on last-gen consoles but this time on a much larger scale.
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twilo99
Member
MasterCornholio
Member
That's interesting. I thought the decompressors were general purpose and didn't have to be built for a specific format. Now I'm curious as to how they are built to handle those formats.
ethomaz
Banned
False.
It can be used with several processors since it match the requirements... but only Oodle Texture works on Xbox.
Plus Dedicated hardware do matter.
Imagine if Xbox Descompressor could decode Kraken algorithm (it can't) in half time a frame is generated...
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Crimson_Fate
Member
I think this is a good option if you already have a drive that you want to repurpose but if you are buying a new drive I don't think it is worth saving a few $ , the cheaper drives still aren't "Cheap" so why spend good money on something you know will be crippled in the future.
MasterCornholio
Member
Pretty much.
Some lines of code are not going to make the PS5s GPU grow additional CUs the same goes for that code with the Series Decompression hardware.
Those two hardware components are limited by the actual hardware itself. Code isn't going to change said hardware.
ethomaz
Banned
For Kraken not.
But it can be used for Oodle Textures.
RAD said in Xbox you need to use ZLib because it doesn't have Kraken compressor.
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
All will revolve around how quickly the prices drop
Plus we dont know when or even if these drives will be "crippled" and if so by how many games will in fact cripple them and like I said prior if that happens you still have the internal drive for those games.
MasterCornholio
Member
I'm thinking the decompressor in the XSX might be too weak for Kraken. I'm guessing the CPU will have to help it to handle that level of decompression. So that 1/10th of a core could end up being a lot more if Kraken is used. Sacrificing CPU power for decompression is probably something developers won't do on these systems. BCpak and Zlib will probably be used the most due to this at least on the Series of consoles.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This LITERALLY makes zero sense. Why make a console, if you are not going to program for it?
MasterCornholio
Member
Looking at the PC space there are SSDs that match and even surpass the PS5s. Not to mention directstorage and Nvidia I/O will become available at some point. In the future Sony could design a game around the PS5s I/O and still have it work perfectly fine on PCs.
Remember Sony's biggest focus are their consoles not PCs. Which means for almost all their games the PS5 will be the lead platform.
Papacheeks
Banned
God this thread is fucking embarrassing. On both sides.
Lets see what digital foundry finds and see if Insomniac responds to what they find. I would have to believe the Developer over anyone. And If I remember Insomniac said they are not maxing out the ssd I/O solution. Which is why it looks like performance wise we can use slower drives.
But going forward as they add more to their engine and call on it more as their assets and levels get larger they will need the faster speed. Remember the way they draw on this solution in game engines is like one big pool of virtual memory.
Lets see what digital foundry finds and see if Insomniac responds to what they find. I would have to believe the Developer over anyone. And If I remember Insomniac said they are not maxing out the ssd I/O solution. Which is why it looks like performance wise we can use slower drives.
But going forward as they add more to their engine and call on it more as their assets and levels get larger they will need the faster speed. Remember the way they draw on this solution in game engines is like one big pool of virtual memory.
Oddvintagechap
Member
It means nothing. Since the hardware isnt taxed til 2-3 years into its lifecycle.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I don't know why people think Sony's SSD solution is that expensive. Their custom design is actually cheaper than other 5.5 GB/second SSDs.
I mean, they are already profiting off of the standard PS5 lol
I mean, they are already profiting off of the standard PS5 lol
MrLove
Banned
But useless on XSX without fast I/O
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Papacheeks
Banned
Look at the write speed, and then look at the write speed for all the drives we've seen.
980 pro max write speed is 5000mb/s
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I don't know what you are trying to say here. Not being snarky just don't know what that has to do with my post.
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