Are you purposely acting dumb to avoid his point?
what he is saying isn’t difficult to understand.
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Activision Blizzard Sued By California Over ‘Frat Boy’ Culture
- Thread starter SlimySnake
- Start date
what he is saying isn’t difficult to understand.
nush
Member
Lucky you. I had an English one right in my face shouting "It's him, this is the guy!" while I calmly tried to let him know he was experiencing mistaken identity and the guy who was with him was doing the same. My female friend with me wasn't putting up with this guys bullshit and straight up told him to fuck off. His response was to jab her in the shoulder with a plastic chip fork he was using with his tray of takeaway chips.
Little did he know that this motherly looking woman was the top of the local amateur Kickboxing league and she roundhouse kicked him right in the head dropping him to the floor like a sack of shit.
Lets go, she said.
nush
Member
please provide Google translate link.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
He doesn't drink, smoke, or do recreational drugs. He has covered it before on stream.
Sinthor
Gold Member
SlimySnake
I think that's a great point. There's vague accusations that get thrown around a lot, but these are some very specific allegations. If this bit about distributing nudes of a female teammate is true and the people involved weren't terminated for it then Blizzard is going to pay big time and just for THAT specific case! If there are others. Well, I haven't read the entire filing but it sounds to me like the company overall is going to be rocked to its core.Look, there are things that happen from having mixed work environments...people make mistakes or get out of hand occasionally. What makes things legally actionable is when such things are tolerated by company officials and/or encouraged and without corrective efforts including getting rid of people if they cannot stop inappropriate behavior. This all seems to go WAY beyond just saying that some men asked some female teammates out on dates. This appears to be a shitshow. In fact, I'd say it's really unfair to Fraternities to compare this to them. Maybe compared to a 'frat movie' like 'Animal House' or something!
I'll be following this case for sure. Fascinating. If all this stuff is proved in court I question whether Blizzard will actually survive, at least in its current form. Time will tell....
Halo is Back
Member
I was talking about Singular7 lol
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
For me, every company has it's own culture. No matter how hard people try to conform, working in a bank's head office skyscraper will always be different than working at a 20 person game studio founded by a programmer.
Look, there are things that happen from having mixed work environments...people make mistakes or get out of hand occasionally. What makes things legally actionable is when such things are tolerated by company officials and/or encouraged and without corrective efforts including getting rid of people if they cannot stop inappropriate behavior. This all seems to go WAY beyond just saying that some men asked some female teammates out on dates. This appears to be a shitshow. In fact, I'd say it's really unfair to Fraternities to compare this to them. Maybe compared to a 'frat movie' like 'Animal House' or something!
I'll be following this case for sure. Fascinating. If all this stuff is proved in court I question whether Blizzard will actually survive, at least in its current form. Time will tell....
If people at a work place tolerate stupidity, then if they want to do it, do it and be happy.
But for sake of standards and responsibility, if some workers complain about out of hand issues, you got to conform to government standards which will be safe, no harassment, no stupidity.
Anyone work in a warehouse? I did many times during university in the summer. Out of every department I've worked at in life, you know which place is the biggest pig station? The shipping office in the warehouse. One place had a desk full of porn mags we'd all pull out and the warehouse boss laughed. Another one had Toronto Sun Sunshine Girl pics taped up all over on the wall. In plain view.
Why did it continue? Probably because those departments are all guys and no guy complained. Few women worked there and the ones who did worked in the office. They'd have no reason to ever be in the warehouse manager's shipping office. They either never knew of the stupidity in the warehouse, or maybe they did know but didnt care because its not in their face.
rnlval
Member
A young woman is somebody's daughter, sister, girlfriend, wife, cousin, and niece...
Activision Blizzard Sued Over ‘Frat Boy’ Culture, Harassment (1)
Video game giant Activision Blizzard Inc., maker of games including World of Warcraft and Diablo, fosters a “frat boy” culture in which female employees are subjected to constant sexual harassment, unequal pay, and retaliation, according to a lawsuit filed by the California Department of Fair...news.bloomberglaw.com
One female employee committed suicide on a work trip after her nudes were passed around the office.
Pretty fucked up stuff. Note that this is no vague accusation. This was a 2 year investigation done by the State of California.
nush
Member
A young woman is somebody's daughter, sister, girlfriend, wife, cousin, and niece...
Shit overplayed counterpoint. And actually fucking emotionally manipulative if not misogynistic.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Devil's advocate here guys. Whats your opinion. I thought of this since I worked in a warehouse in the 90s.
One of the office workers was pretty good looking, been there a while and basically knew everyone on the shop floor (lots of long time workers there). Some of the workers and her would joke around in an innocent sexual way for kicks. Its not like they are making out or anything. Think of your work where you know people you can joke around and say dumb sex jokes or say youre looking hot. The people involved are fine and think it's fun kidding.
Someone standing 20 ft away not involved sees these childish antics between coworkers.
Does she have a valid complaint to HR or the government of sexual harassment culture?
One of the office workers was pretty good looking, been there a while and basically knew everyone on the shop floor (lots of long time workers there). Some of the workers and her would joke around in an innocent sexual way for kicks. Its not like they are making out or anything. Think of your work where you know people you can joke around and say dumb sex jokes or say youre looking hot. The people involved are fine and think it's fun kidding.
Someone standing 20 ft away not involved sees these childish antics between coworkers.
Does she have a valid complaint to HR or the government of sexual harassment culture?
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
rnlval
Member
IF Neogaf was Twitter, I have to say something else that would breach Neogaf's TOC. You can't handle the truth.
FourEyesGod
Neo Member
Wtf is wrong with them?? fuck them, it's time to stop supporting Blizzard and their games. They have to be teach a lesson.
Yes, it could be a valid complaint if she took it as something more than a joke. If that complaint was unfairly dismissed then that's the point where the government should get involved.
TransTrender
Gold Member
True and honest fan right here.
Yeah, he seems adamant about it too.
If it ever crosses the line where she becomes uncomfortable, then yes, she has a valid complaint. Just because a female co-worker is ok with (some) sex jokes and flirting doesn't mean she has to be ok with all sex jokes and flirting. Another note, just because one female co-worker is ok with it does not mean another has to put up with it too. I find people tend to overlook both of the above.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Lucky for me I work in a place we do this all the time (well, when we were at the office before covid). We joke around saying each other are hot, and some of the women would joke around with them giggling and asking each other to touch their tits like they are teenagers feeling who has the best tits. Theyd even joke with us saying if want to grab a feel. Trust me I want to. But never have. Thats not to say the whole office is like this. Just a core group of maybe 10 of us who are good friends and have worked with each other for a long time.
Grown women. Married with kids doing this for laughs. Myself and the guys think it's hilarious too. One old coworker snuck up behind me and a buddy coworker at lunch and joked we have great asses. We laughed. And no I dont have a great ass.
I know more about what sexual acts people like at the office than my own best friends and brothers.
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Shmunter
Member
Broad statement and I disagree with you. Consenting adults partying vs crossing the line are different things. Sex with groupies or prostitutes is not the same as involving female work colleagues in orgies.
Alcohol is a social lubricant and has a part in social groups and teams. It breaks down barriers and creates cohesion and builds teams just as much as it can do the opposite if not approached with common sense.
There is always tension between these things, and eliminating every ounce of humanity, creating robots, will not improve people’s working lives and lives more broadly.
strange headache
Banned
True, let's not pretend we're all monastery nuns here. I also don't see the problem with having a couple of drinks at office parties and such. Workplace dynamics are complex enough without the burden of an overly puritanic code of conduct. Especially when considering that many people find their partners through work related activities. Here in Europe, alcohol is part of every workplace celebration without our work-environments degrading into sexist abusive hellholes.
The question is whether these leaked images and conversations are indicative of Blizzard leadership fostering a toxic work environment that systematically subjects female coworkers to unwanted sexual advances, or if their office culture was more reminiscent of Atari during the Nolan Bushnell years. Promiscuity, innuendos and lax sexual encounters were a sign of the hippie era of the 70s and 80s and both mend and women were pretty much on board with this:
There's really nothing wrong with having a little bit of fun at the office, so long as everything is consensual. Bushnell got cancelled nonetheless and despite having his female co-workers come out in defense while admitting they were willingly complicit.
What I'd like to know is if Blizzard is sacrificed at the altar of American nu-puritanism or if their office culture was really as toxic as the lawsuit makes it out to be.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Thats the thing. Since this board is heavy with Americans, the thinking of whats right and wrong or normal will have a US skew. As a Canadian, a lot of what we do follows similar to the US, although Quebec does their own thing with their own norms sometimes.
Never the less, I'd say as a whole the US and Canada for the vast majority of companies is no drinking on the job - unless it's a company dinner party or offsite meeting where people can party. And no smoking indoors too.
Gaming and tech (assuming the image and stories are true since the internet came about telling everyone about tech), it seems more of a wild west industry of young people, lots of money paid out, and lots of corporate money to make cool party atmosphere offices. Come to the office wearing a tshirt and slippers if you want kind of vibe. Come join our tech company if you want to get away from stodgy business casual/dress shoe environments. The number one priorities are coolness and fun. And tech, gaming, social media kinds of places by nature of product and people seem a hell of a lot more fun than working at a mortgage company in a glass office tower.
So what you'll naturally get seems logical to be more partying. So what its come to now is if this out of control atmosphere is true enough to be a systemic issue that needs to be toned down, or overplayed and not as bad as people on Twitter say it is.
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strange headache
Banned
If you listen to Bushnell, you can clearly understand how deregulated company culture was a motor for innovation:
You don't get that innovative drive at sterile work environments. Steve Jobs who worked at Atari later went on and imported that attitude into his own company. I don't think Digital Valley would have become such a motor of economic growth and technological drive if people had to walk on eggshells around each other. If your office culture is too stifling, you lose all the creative drive behind your company.
There has to be a healthy middleground between a liberated workplace environment and employee protection.
Thesuffering79
Banned
A man of culture, yes reading roman history and Plato should me mandatory if society survives this.
But its only gonna get worse. Society will sexualize kids and animals. Society is already doing the kids thing, wont be long before we get to animals. Give it 10 years.
Only thing that can save society is the tyrant. Only time will tell if he/she arises due to the propaganda that the governments and media spew.
strange headache
Banned
Also this:
So apparently the "hot chixx" was a reference to their wives, which would explain his second reply:
Also the "Cosby Suite" came from a colorful rug that was similar to Cliff's sweaters in the show:
nush
Member
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Look, when the complaint is sloppy enough to misspell Cosby as Crosby, not once, but twice, it makes you wonder where else the investigation has been less than accurate.
At worst it seems to me like simple bad taste is being conflated in here with something genuinely sinister. Basically they were setting up a party, not a human trafficking ring.
Gamergate looms very large in this case. This party was setup before that became a thing and the sex-negative puritanism of Sarkeesian et al had its chilling "no fun" effect across the whole industry.
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Coolwhhip
Neophyte
My BS sense is off the charts with Greg Street really. You named your weird group after Cosby because of a shirt and then even framed a picture of him...
But I'm so conflicted with this whole thing, this shouldn't be fought out on twitter. It's surreal.
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I think this is definitely true. North American office culture for sure seems more corporate in most aspects compared to here in Europe. It sounds like it's only acceptable to have a couple of beers even at an office party whereas from my experience all the office parties I've been to it's an opportunity for everyone to get drunk off their face, especially the ones with families etc who don't get the chance to get out as much.
To ban drinking would be absolutely idiotic. It has always been a social activity. It's hard to get to know people in an office environment as people are all busy with work, doing their things. A couple of drinks in the office or at the pub after work is pretty important to actually get to know your colleagues and build a stronger bond as a team. Obviously people cross the line sometimes but we've been drinking for millennia, it's nothing new or shocking.
The issue here sounds more to do with a bunch of socially awkward people working in a relaxed environment where there's possibly a lot of new things they haven't experienced. Possibly many employees are not super sociable paired with very high legal drinking age means they're not used to drinking culture etc.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Its likely only BS in the sense that you cannot defend it on politically correct grounds.
Look, lets tell the truth for once: Traditionally, at parties the idea was people get loaded, loosen-up, and hook up. There's a world of difference between what Cosby was doing, (getting a one-on-one meeting, roofie-ing them, then raping them) and trying to get someone you fancy pissed enough at a social gathering that they might consider getting with you.
One's criminal, one's just being a normal human. Its not predatory to take the initiative, especially when dealing with persons who are inhibited to a degree where they will wait for an advance even if the attraction is reciprocal. This goes for guys and girls and everyone.
Its like the fact that sexual banter and "rape" jokes are now considered to be offences severe enough to have a person cancelled! Its batshit-insane to make insensitivity a matter of legislation! Especially when any issue of intent is summarily dismissed because its only the offended person's emotions that matter.
GymWolf
Member
Complex like tlou2 plot or more like rick and morty?!Too complex for a gaming form
Simple summary of this story: Blizzard == USA
...I'm so shocked by this shocking story ...
Coolwhhip
Neophyte
There is a huge difference between what you do in private and on the job though.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Well, here's the issue with that: There's evidence being freely taken and mixed from events that occurred as part of standard business operation and those that sit in a grey area like events that occur in company sponsored events like Blizzcon where standard operational practices are suspended or relaxed, plus stuff that takes place outside of office hours.
Are you "on the job" if you go out to a bar after work and get shit-faced such that when you go into the office the next day you are hung over? How does that square if you happen to be working 6-7 days a week? Are you required to live a monastic existence because you're a lead or manager at a video-game company?
Sorry, but how does any of this sound reasonable? Its like the complaints of people working at a video-game company *gasp* playing video-games on both office time as well as when they go home at night?
Context is everything, and it seems to me so much of the controversy comes from disingenuously removing any shred of it so as to make the behaviours seem more extreme and deplorable than they really are.
Interfectum
Member
Have you ever been in a position of power with a lot of co-workers? It doesn't matter if you are on the job, at an event or at your local bar... if you hold a position of power over people you work with you don't get shit-faced drunk with them and you also don't come in hung over and brag about it. With these kinds of professional jobs you are always 'on the clock' especially if your friends are also people you work with.
Everything we've heard about what these Blizzard guys have done is grossly unprofessional. Should they be cancelled / fired for it? Maybe some it depends on what comes out. But all of them have no business holding positions of power over others if they are going to act like this.
The phrase that comes to mind is 'you don't shit where you eat' and it seems they all forgot that.
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Yes, I have. In the games-biz too.
Grow up. The real world doesn't work like that.
You are entitled to socialize with whoever you want outside of office hours, and letting off steam by getting high, or shitfaced or whatever is a near necessity in a high-stress, high pressure creative environment. Because if you don't, you will crack. And if you crack, everyone on the team suffers.
Its not politic to admit that, but its the reality.
I pity anyone who thinks that "bragging about having a heavy night's drinking" is an issue of any substance whatsoever. Who the hell are you, the temperance police?
Interfectum
Member
Hey man, you want to risk your career doing stupid shit, go right ahead.
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nush
Member
Getting in boys club boosted my career. Go figure.
There was people on this thread wondering why he never posted an article on the activision-blizzard stuff, is he not allowed to defend himself?
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I'm out of it. And glad to be if this is what's expected these days.
Its funny. People complain about games being overly corporate and soulless these days, while at the same time demanding the people that make them act like robots!
nush
Member
ANY videogames "Journalist" using the term Gamergate in the year of our lord 2021 is a big flashing neon sign of how out of touch they are and indicates the last time they actually had any relevancy before Youtubers came along and ate their lunch for them.
CGiRanger
Banned
Just out of curiosity, I googled the past 5 years of ActiBlizz stock. As you can see at the end, the drop of course corresponds to the current scandal.
However you can see a huge drop back in 2018, the dates correspond to Blizzcon of that year, which is iirc when Diablo: Immortal was revealed and well, all that happened. But goes to show that at the end of the day, what affects a game company the most is its games.
However you can see a huge drop back in 2018, the dates correspond to Blizzcon of that year, which is iirc when Diablo: Immortal was revealed and well, all that happened. But goes to show that at the end of the day, what affects a game company the most is its games.
Interfectum
Member
No doubt. However, I do think there is a decent amount of space between being a robot and being a game director with a rape room (w/ photo evidence). Most truly creative people who handle large projects are probably assholes and are a little crazy. I don't want to see them go... just don't be stupid. Everyone here should be mad at those Blizzard execs because they've just handed Kotaku, Polygon, Schreier, etc the golden fucking goose.
Saint Boot
Banned
On a side note, Why is it always the ""woke"" western developers that get outed for things like this, but some people on the internet will flock to their defense, but if a Japanese game dev includes a 1000 year old Loli in the game, the usual suspect lose their minds over it?
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CGiRanger
Banned
What photo evidence? All I saw was a photo of a hotel room at Blizzcon with no evidence of rape or sexual assault whatsoever. Just a bunch of dudes being idiots but not exactly "proof" of anything.
Coolwhhip
Neophyte
You become a SJW or male feminist when you have something to hide.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I dunno, it all seems very contrived to me. It smells funny.
This is stuff from 8-11 years ago, its all pre-Gamergate which actually is materially relevant in this instance as Sarkeesian et al are cited as part of the backgrounding for the complaint. There so much effort being made to force this to be tried in the court of public opinion even though the meat of the suit (hiring/promotions being systemically discriminatory) is an independent thing to these salacious anecdotes.
Add on top of this all the slacktivists piling in, the frankly batshit demands of the militant employee group, it just feels like a smorgasbord for people with grievances to extract their pound of flesh.
Its a weird situation for me because I truly dislike Activision for professional/career reasons, I know they are dirty bastards who truthfully do have it coming, because the companies I know first-hand to have suffered in their dealings cannot be the only ones to have been shafted by them over the years.
That being said: Not like this. Not some orchestrated kangaroo-court that validates Sarkeesian's boogey-man stories, not a thing that makes every male employee in this industry seem like a serial abuser. Its dishonest, it misrepresents the workday reality in order to expediently leverage faddish politics into a societal narrative.
Most of all, it feels like a new escalation of cancel culture tactics. Its leading to a really bad place.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Thats true.
If I have a picture of Harvey Weinstein hanging on my wall, does that mean I'm a rapist?
ManaByte
Member
Dude has skeletons in his closet he wouldn't want to get out. Story goes he used to be a total shitlord on some forum, but the owners of that site are hiding his incriminating posts.
Coolwhhip
Neophyte
Oh please let that come out.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
US corporate culture as a whole is definitely uptight. Probably has to do with fear of lawsuits and stuff. Moreso than Canada, but we are pretty straightlaced too. But visit the US head offices, and people are nice but very pins and needle-ish kind of vibe where it's pretty sterile. Come to Canada, and we all laugh and know each other in a more friendly way. Hell, its the same company and both buildings are head offices with similar kinds of departments, levels of employees, and the CEO of each country is right there in the building. But a different vibe. Even the hosting is more robotic. Visit the US and there might be one team dinner, rest of time were on our own to figure out what to do so it'll be up to us to check google maps or ask the hotel front desk what there is to do around here. US people come to Canada, and well take you guys out to dinner, for the pervs hit a strip joint if you want at 10 pm, well hit a Jays or Raps game. If you wanna go on your own and tour the city yourself, no problem. But were always here if you want company.
Heck, you can even extend it to our media on TV. No swearing, no nudity, no hilarious risque stuff you see in European shows and ads. Quebec is the closest to Europe as you'll get some T&A in prime time tv channels like it's no big deal.
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