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Activision Blizzard says Woke policies for hiring are unworkable
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Elcid
Banned
Holy shit I didn't realize we had Hitler on our forum.
hemo memo
Gold Member
Get out of here. You need every shade of color and every type of gender in a company just because.
Insane Metal
Member
Not sure if sarcasm or not
SJRB
Gold Member
Wow calm down with the micro aggression, you're invading his safe space. I'm triggered and offended and I have rights.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Problem is these people don't do anything, and they blame it on the white male instead of their lack of capabilities to even do such a simple task as washing dishes.
In the whale world there's no such thing as skills, it's split up between white racist males or the assaulted mentally sick self empathised hypocrites.
Sander Cohen
Member
This is pure gold
Gonpachiro Kamaboko
Member
Anytime someone gives me shit about hiring a white person I pull the gay latino card, tends to keep them quiet for a bit. I know, I’m very privileged.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
From Game Industry: Activision Blizzard says interviewing diverse candidates for every opening "unworkable"
Activision Blizzard says interviewing diverse candidates for every opening "unworkable"
Publisher asks SEC to exempt it from putting "Rooney Rule" proposal before shareholders; EA says it will consider itwww.gamesindustry.biz
So what everybody with a working brain already knew. Hiring and interviewing based on diversity, color, sex, being LGBQWERTY instead of pure CV content, past carreer, expertise and own professional archievements is impossible to apply on the real world where stuff as competition or deadlines exists.
My theory is that if you hire based ONLY on CV and the profile you can get after an interview you will automatically hire this "diverse cast". If you hire because a SJW agenda you are not hiring people, you are hiring TOKENS.
Cherry Sonoshee
Banned
Trying to create a diverse workplace is a woke concept? Ok sounds pretty dumb to me, but I’m not a white male angry at the world so I guess I don’t know.
Seems like having diverse perspectives and a not a singular focused workforce would be a good idea for a multi national company who makes products for a variety of people.
Seems like having diverse perspectives and a not a singular focused workforce would be a good idea for a multi national company who makes products for a variety of people.
AJUMP23
Member
Hitler hired based on loyalty more than skill. In fact many of the people that were the head of key positions were incompetent, but Loyal. The head of the Luftwaffe for one.
Halo is Back
Member
Insert *No shit gif*
Cyberpunkd
Member
While I agree, I really hope people are not under the impression that any hiring is based only on talent, you literally have to never interact with a person.
There is a reason ‘first impression’ exists, research also shows that it is many times made even before you meet someone.
Do people from underprivileged background have more difficulty getting hired? Yes. Should a private corporation care? Probably not.
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Cyberpunkd
Member
Ah yes, Goehring was famously an idiot. Unfortunately Nazis had some very skilled people as well e.g. Speer and Eichmann.
Vaelka
Member
If these companies genuinely cared about diversity they wouldn't obsess so much about skin color.
A black man in the US has far more in common with a white man in the US than a German or Polish white person does, and people from different countries also brings a lot more fresh cultural perspectives.
But oh no, they're white so they don't count.
Because according to Americans white people are a monolith and are all the same.
A black man in the US has far more in common with a white man in the US than a German or Polish white person does, and people from different countries also brings a lot more fresh cultural perspectives.
But oh no, they're white so they don't count.
Because according to Americans white people are a monolith and are all the same.
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MagnesG
Banned
What kind of perspective such "diverse" workforce could give that simply having consultants of said "diverse" topics cannot do?
You make games that are fun to play, not simply having a diverse workforce that aren't necessarily capable of doing the tasks.
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
The idea that three white male dudes can't be "diverse" is deeply racist. As if sharing some random physical traits makes you the same as someone else.
I don't like pirates
Banned
I don't feel the slightly pity for them. They though that it was cool to appeal to those people that are completely mad and radical (at least behind their computers), and doesn't even really like videogames very much, so they can sell tons of games.
Now you get what you deserve.
Now you get what you deserve.
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Cherry Sonoshee
Banned
Maybe if Bioware had a more diverse writing team they would have avoided the pretty shitty plotline involving Jacob. A person of color could perhaps offer insight that maybe having a story of an older black male being an absentee father and also a rapist was pretty shitty.
Having PoC on the team for Miles Morales leads to better writing, better attention to detail in animation, the character design, and just a better depiction of Miles and the world he inhabits.
Having a diverse and welcoming workforce allows different people who would otherwise not pursue a career in gaming to actually do it as it doesn't seem impenetrable. So they can bring their unique perspective to it leading to a wide variety of things. This is the entire point of these types of policies on paper. To help encourage others to pursue careers in an industry that before they would think is one-sided. Thus, hopefully leading to them offering their own creative output of "fun" games.
Also, what is your actual point? Durr games should be fun to play! Games today are far more than "press buttons for awesome toys". They are things of huge incredibly huge moving parts. Writing, audio, art, and so on are big chunks that are slaved over and thought about. Why would I not want a wide range of people of all backgrounds offering their creative input? Why wouldn't I want all types of people creating games? Like what are you arguing here? "Oh forced diversity is bad". Ok well, we don't live in some ideal world and there are plenty of forces at play. You can argue that nope nothing is wrong, but I think you're full of shit if you do. Nothings perfect, not even these policies. Also, they aren't hiring untalented people that are not capable. Did you read the article? The problem is that the process slows down the hiring process.
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MagnesG
Banned
"Maybe". What is it so different that a pretty skilled team couldn't do what you described on par if not better than your advertised diverse team? Couldn't they do their own research for everything?
Who did Ghost of Tsuhima again?
Cyberpunkd
Member
And yet Nintendo - a Japanese company that probably cares the least about diversity - manages to make the best games that are consistently popular for more than 30 years now.
Also regarding writing - I gave up expecting good writing in videogames, what is hailed as second coming is average in another medium.
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Fortunate_Son
Neo Member
This doesn't even make sense. Who are you to say whether that is a shitty storyline or not? I mean - are there statistics to back-up that claim of yours? They are writers - they can create any story they want. Oh no - a black absentee father that is a rapist - did you rage inside on their depictions of a fictional character and story? Who gives a fuck. Play the damn game. Didn't enjoy it? Don't fucking buy it.
What kind of racist statement is this? So every other race or background of people can't do their research? Stop making shit so complicated. It's because of people like you we get to where we're at in society.
Cherry Sonoshee
Banned
Ok I don't care.
Stay triggered at the idea of diviresty in games I guess.
Stay triggered at the idea of diviresty in games I guess.
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In my career I've hired around 15 people that I have managed directly. About half have been in some sort of diversity category ranging from homosexual, ethnic minority, to transgender. The other half would be straight white males. By and large, most of the "diversity" hires I made actually kicked the crap out of most of the white male hires I made. But there were good and bad in both pools. But every single one of those people were hired because based on the available candidates at the time, they were the best people for the job. I didn't hire people to make a diversity hire. I hired them because they interviewed best and had the skills and experience to do the job. And imagine that, they kicked ass.
Point being, a good hire is a good hire. It's based on skills and experience. If they happen to be a diversity hire then great. I want the best person for the job. Period. I don't care what their sexuality, skin color, or any other grab bag of woke buzz words they check off on a list.
Point being, a good hire is a good hire. It's based on skills and experience. If they happen to be a diversity hire then great. I want the best person for the job. Period. I don't care what their sexuality, skin color, or any other grab bag of woke buzz words they check off on a list.
Cherry Sonoshee
Banned
I mean how would I find out if I enjoyed it if I didn't buy it? I realize you're probably one of these people that takes any critscism that anyone will have that amounts to "hey why not avoid shity stereotypes" as "THE ARTISTS CREATIVE VISION. But whatever, it was an often criticized and pretty bad story involving the only black party member having a pretty bad plotline. Maybe it didn't do anything for you, but I doubt extreme left-leaning Bioware wouldn't mind a talented writer pointing that out. That's really the point. Having teams of different people can allow for different viewpoints that could lead to a better product. That's the ideal.
It's racist to think a poc may offer more insight for a game about a poc? That's a pretty dumb statement, but ok. I mean sure you can have research.
And/or you can also already foster a talented diverse team that can tell you simple things like "this is honestly how we should model this character's hair". This is what Insomniac did, to great results. I mean research is all good and well, so is experience. Why is this a bad thing for you?
You're doing a lot of ass pulls and assumptions here.
I don't think you should force diversity. I never said that. I said seeking diversity has positives and there's a logical reason as to why big entertainment companies seek it out. Some are not the cynical reasons that clearly trigger people like you.
No one said it was anyone's fault, but it is a result of the flow of society. Sure anyone can succeed, but you're pretty delusional if you think there aren't some roadblocks for some over others. But reading you reply, it's clear you don't think that so this is a waste of time anyway. I mean it is, because you are being pretty extreme and honestly arguing in bad faith. I mean there's been decades and decades of articles written in the tech industry about the lack of women in it for instance, with one of the prime reasons almost always being that they simply didn't think there would be positions, they would be allowed. You have to be an idiot to think that at some point tech industry seemed to be just white male-dominated. it still is, I'm not blaming anyone. But you create these policies to fight that image and encourage different people. This is bad why? No where am I saying "NEVER HIRE WHITE DUDES AGAIN".
My point is diversity in the work force is not inherently bad. I never said I don't enjoy games made by a specific group. I never said I put a big investment in who makes the games I enjoy. You shut the fuck up and stop assuming shit.
Actually, the person here who sounds like they wouldn't enjoy games because of who made them is well....you.
Again, I never said there was a problem. Of course, I don't have an issue, because most games were and still are made by white dudes.
Sure they can. But you're an idiot if you don't think there aren't any roadblocks, but clearly, you don't so you must be. You seem to think I think the solution in the article is perfect. I don't, but I realize why it exists. You on the other hand seem angry at the sheer idea of it. Which says more about you then it does me.
I think that's actually the problem being talked about in the article.... I'm not the one doing the hiring. Again, you seem to think I think this is some absolute thing when in reality all I've said is "this is a complex subject requiring a lot of nuances, but diversity dosen't have to be bad and instead have positives".
And you sound like a triggered angry white dude.
So go fuck yourself and get angry some more.
Cherry Sonoshee
Banned
Ok and? Nintendo is a Japanese company. I don’t think they have a bearing on work culture in the western world....
My point had nothing to do with if games are fun or not. But that diverse teams have positives and it makes complete sense to seek them out. Again in an increasing diverse world, diverse workplaces make sense if used properly.
Cherry Sonoshee
Banned
I mean I think GoT is a pretty bad game, but whatever.
But that’s great.
One thing I don’t get is what you are actually arguing.
Because I didn’t say a diverse team is automatically better. I didnt really make any quality call. What I did say is there’s a positive and reason to seek it out.
So why does it bother you so much? If you people claim you don’t care who makes your games, why do you lose your shit over diversity?
kraspkibble
Permabanned.
i don't give a fuck what age, gender, race, religion, etc a person is...if they have the right skills for a job then the most qualified person should get it. hiring people who aren't right for the job just to hit a quota, score points, and appease people to try not get cancelled is not right.
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Velius
Banned
Seriously back to Era with that piece of shit
Woo-Fu
Banned
I have a solution. Make it a responsibility of one of your already diverse hires to interview for every new position. You could even create a minimum wage position solely to do that. That'd give you another diversity hire and you'd be following the mandate.
The simple fact of the matter is that these SJWs have the cart before the horse. If you want more diversity in the workplace you need to encourage a more diverse group of people to pursue education/training for these jobs. They act like there's a billion unemployed rainbows out there who can't get a job because they're not white males descended from slave owners. Is that the case? I don't think so. When I went to RPI there was exactly ONE woman in my year.
Long story short, you need to create a diverse workforce in this industry if you want diverse hiring to be the norm instead of an arbitrary hurdle to be overcome.
The simple fact of the matter is that these SJWs have the cart before the horse. If you want more diversity in the workplace you need to encourage a more diverse group of people to pursue education/training for these jobs. They act like there's a billion unemployed rainbows out there who can't get a job because they're not white males descended from slave owners. Is that the case? I don't think so. When I went to RPI there was exactly ONE woman in my year.
Long story short, you need to create a diverse workforce in this industry if you want diverse hiring to be the norm instead of an arbitrary hurdle to be overcome.
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royox
Member
Dude Bioware has the most diverse team of the industry and they pulled off a trans character In ME Andromeda that literally tells you "btw Im trans lol" after 2 lines of conversation.
They also pulled Jacob being the most diverse team, and Dorian being "the gay mage" whose whole plot points in the DAInquisition are "im gay and my dad hates me", plus The Bull suddently talking about his trans friend having a word in his language to refeer to this people.
So while this kind of shit happens i will still defend that Talent > Diversity. If you hire people for "diversity" you are hiring tokens not workers.
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In the sense that they weren't hired to hit a quota sure, but they hit all the other checkboxes. Either way, my point is that people should be hired based on their merit. When you do that everyone wins.
MagnesG
Banned
Because it's impossible to have both, often times hiring process solely based on the diversity hires/quotas are not actually the best person to hold the job.
We're talking best of the best here. You're severely limiting the pool if you're only focusing on not their intellectual merit and only based on their skin colour.
Apparently we had to struggle searching for just that one person who actually qualified for the job but also needs to be a woman/minority/alphabet when there are couple others already in the frontline qualified. It's really not fair just bullshit.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Good on them. Hire the best person for the job.
ShadowLag
Member
Wall of text inc.
You're saying that people are losing their shit over diversity, in a thread filled with replies saying "I don't care what age, gender, race, or religion the people are that make the games, I just want them to be good at what they do and get hired because of that". I hope you can see that. I can see that diversity in gaming clearly means a lot to you, and I respect that.
But I promise you, people in this very thread, on this forum, and most everywhere else wouldn't care if the teams at Bioware, Bungie, or 343i were comprised entirely of LGBTQ+ racial minorities, or "white males angry at the world", women, or a mix of everything. They don't care. They have never cared in all the decades the gaming industry has been around, which is already filled with diverse output for just about every audience.
They just don't want sexuality, race or gender to publicly be the reason they were hired over actual skill at making games, because it gives the strong impression that it's no longer about the games - it's about "look we did a good thing, right society? We get points now, right? Wait, what were we making again? I dunno but look how many boxes we checked! Quality output guaranteed now right guys? Please don't be mad at me Twitter!"
Everyone understands that diversity itself is generally good and can provide us with all kinds of unique perspectives (if the people making the games are actually good at it), but in order to truly achieve it, you cannot attempt to force it. Forcing it is in direct contradiction to the very spirit of diversity... someone might be saying "we should no longer have games made exclusively by white guys"... which itself is a direct attack on diversity. The world would then LOSE that perspective that only those teams could bring, right? So the world should lose that perspective because the team is only white males? That's racism and sexism rolled into one. The "hero" becoming the villain. The word "diverse" includes all outcomes. No calculations, no meddling. No arbitrary exclusions to sway a particular outcome. ALL possibilities must be included and allowed to happen naturally for true diversity.
Let's say you're a studio manager, and you're like "I just wanna hire a bunch of racially diverse women that aren't white". You can do that. I'd fully support your decision to do that. More power to you, it's your studio. You'll probably even make some kickass games that way. Just don't claim it's in the name of diversity, because you're clearly aiming for a particular outcome that doesn't include certain types of people. Just do it, don't proclaim how great of a person you are for doing it, just do it. Run your studio how you want, and get on with it - then you'll have no problems. It's the language and the public showboating that gets people irritated. Everyone should be allowed to just hire the person most qualified for the position that they jive with, and move on.
As far as the greater industry is concerned, to my knowledge, there has never been a coordinated industry-wide effort to turn down an individual qualified for the position they're applying for because they aren't a white male. And if a company or manager IS doing that? Well fuck that company, and put better management in there for THAT COMPANY. That doesn't mean we have to blanket-mandate that the entire industry MUST hire BASED on race or gender, and specifically, NO MORE TEAMS OF WHITE MALES! That is directly declaring "we are now hiring based on your gender and race" in the NAME OF DIVERSITY... it's a logical fallacy. It's doing the very same thing you're saying is bad, just in the direction you'd rather have. Forcing one outcome over the other is removing something from the equation, which is by definition the opposite of diversity.
There's an argument to be made that purposely hiring with a diverse-only mindset will result in more diverse content, that's true. But what happens when the content ends up being no good? Maybe reviews on the game are abysmal and the studio goes under and the devs lose their jobs. Diversity for diversity's sake did no favors for anyone involved there. You have to be careful and put more weight on the skills of your candidates. We do live in the cold, harsh world of reality, after all.
Let's just get back to making and playing good games. Let studios hire who they want. Call out the shitty racists and bigots (and no, that doesn't automatically include ALL WHITE MALES).
Leave everyone else alone.
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Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
Also the stupid Rooney Rule in the NFL. You have to do token minority interviews for every coaching hire. How about interview those who have the experience, potential, or best fit for the job. If that person is a minority then awesome but don't interview someone just to check a box.
Timeless One
Member
I agree that impression and ability to communicate is very essential part of the hiring.
What I mean is no one should be hired by a company just because of their gender o race. That is not a good thing. In this case we have ignored all the logic and attention to talent.
In my opinion it is madness that many igonre facts, logic and etc just because certain people have specific gender or sexual pereferences ! As much as communication and interaction is important, also deservness for a job is important (without considering their race, colour and gender)
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D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Fortunate_Son
Neo Member
It's simple. Let the writers write however they deem a character or story should go/fit. It's their vision. If you don't like it. Please feel free to look the other way. Some people out there will enjoy it and some people won't. Can't point the fingers at them and say, "oh no; because the story is about an absentee father that is a rapist and him being black triggers the fuck out of me" maybe you need some time off?
Isn't Bioware one of the more diverse developers around? Oh wait.... It's.
What if the other viewpoints from a diverse team also somehow offended people that are from different walks of life? It's a never-ending cycle. They're bound to offend someone....
I mean sure - a person of color may offer a differing insight to the character arc/build. But who's to say that the those same insights can't come from caucasians/Indians or Asians? Or does it ONLY have to be a black person because the character is black?
So the way you have it - no one particular race can write about another group of people from a different background?
So if an Indian guy depicts a Chinese character - you would say "having a Chinese person there would offer more insight to this character development"..... When will this end? When?
So ridiculous.
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Fortunate_Son
Neo Member
Sure. That wouldn't be an issue at all. But here's the thing - anybody in that team could have said that and I wouldn't have an issue.
This is bullshit. I don't care if a team is full of Asians, Indians, males, females etc... As long as they're there to work. Hired to do their assigned task based on their profiles.
You on the other hand want to make sure there's a good mix of everyone? That just can't happen.
Can you please give me some concrete examples of diversity having a positive impact?
Also answer the question below:
The company I work for has 2-3 caucasians. A lot of people from ME. The rest are Indians. No blacks or Asians. So what would you say to that? Would my company qualify as diverse?
Would injecting an Asian or black to the workforce be a positive impact?
Our company is run like a well oiled-machine.
Nope. I don't want to believe these so called artificial barriers that the media keeps pushing and have gullible people like you fall for it. People create these roadblocks themselves, they play the victim card very often. They hang their head down. As I stated - you can achieve anything or nearly everything in life once you have set your mind to it, success will come when you put hard work in. Anybody can be successful in this environment. If you're lazy and expect things to come to you or employers to feel sorry for you and hire you because of your skin color, gender, sexuality etc... Then they don't deserve anything and deserve all the shit they can get.
When I was in Computer Programming back in College/University. There was 1 female out of 60 to 70 male students. So in saying that - I do believe that has improved as more women are entering the field but of course there are going to be way more males in the tech. industry and thus the hiring skew towards more males. That's NOT to say that women won't be hired as long as they're skilled/experienced and have the talents. Why the fuck NOT?
You don't need to create these policies. LMAO! Things will fall in place as time goes on. Companies are going to realize that over time - changing demographics and all.
I am confused by even needing this idea. The whole concept of diverse workforce is stupid. You don't need 1 person from each category or group for a company to be successful at what they're doing.
I would like to see some concrete evidence of the positives of diversity? I agree with you that it's a complex subject that has many grey areas. It isn't as black and white.
I apologize as I came off really rude. Wasn't my intention. I personally believe in having good conversations without any personal insults or attacks. So that's on me.
On the other hand - I am NOT white. I am an Indian (Sikh). If you even know what that is.
supernova8
Banned
Weird because Activision Blizzard was one of a few games companies that got a perfect score from the Human Rights Campaign Foundation along with a host of other companies. I think what that tells us is that Activision doesn't need these micro-management rules to ensure a diverse company where everyone has a chance. Just to give you an example of how this is a stupid rule to introduce:
I was hiring for a position last year and I put nothing whatsoever about race/diversity or anything like that. Whoever saw the ad and felt they were qualified was welcome to apply. That ad was up for about 3 months and not a single non-white person applied. What do you expect me to do? Reject all the white people because I was unable to fill the diversity quota?
It's not my responsibility to go out into non-white communities and do special canvassing to get people to apply. Everyone likely qualified for the role has access to the internet and access to the exact same job sites.
I can see why they didn't want this rule to be adopted because it's a stupid rule.
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saintjules
Member
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While ignoring the reason for forcing diversity in the first place is there are real and apparent barriers out up for people that aren’t white males in the industry. There’s a middle ground. Not having to interview someone diverse for every role, but a staff shouldn’t be all white men either.
People called and made fun of PlayStation for being “woke” and promoting that culture yet they recently revealed having like a 50% split of female and male consumers which is rare in this industry. It’s funny you are all praising Activision blizzard for their words here, while ignoring the actual story being that they had a literal sexist and toxic culture where they literally drove on women to suicide and have countless other reports. That’s why people are pushing this kind of shit.
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