DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Hey, if it makes anyone feel better its now been stated many times that it can run on an xbox, or pc.....
..the good news now is unreal engine 5 is actually shit.
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The Coalition UE5 demo at GDC
- Thread starter onesvenus
- Start date
Hey, if it makes anyone feel better its now been stated many times that it can run on an xbox, or pc.....
..the good news now is unreal engine 5 is actually shit.
CamHostage
Member
For those wondering where to watch this stream... this GDC event unfortunately did not go live to the public, as previously listed but not clarified well with the public, it is only available live to GDC badge holders. The Coalition's presentation is happening now and will wrap up in about 20 minutes.
Parts of it may be shown at another time, check back for a possible public release of what was shown, hopefully...
https://twitter.com/CoalitionGears
Parts of it may be shown at another time, check back for a possible public release of what was shown, hopefully...
https://twitter.com/CoalitionGears
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JackMcGunns
Member
So true lol
OMG UE5, I can't get tired of looking at those rocks!! they look so sharp they're cutting my eyes!!
Now running on Series X:
What is that shit? can UE5 do anything but rocks and desert?
oldergamer
Member
I argued with him about how stupid of an idea that was.
splattered
Member
If it's impressive you can bet it will be wrapped up nice and shiny and put up online for all to see soon.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
All I know is every time Epic promotes an Unreal Engine it's either grey concrete or brown rocks or some dark and shadowy environment.
CamHostage
Member
So not true, that's nonsense fanboy persecution complex.
They showed really cool rocks in 2020. That was great, a year ago. Now, gamers are expecting games*. Even when they showed off even cooler rocks, and way way way more rocks, in May of this year, there was already a desire for the next thing to be different. That's unfair maybe to put on The Coalition (their project isn't necessarily "The Next Thing" showcasing UE5 to the world,) but would have been cool if The Coalition at least had built a demo of a world of glass, or of an factory, or of a city or a mall, something other than rocks. There are reasons why Alpha Point looks to have a lot of rocks (from what we've seen so far,) and if you're interested in tech demos then you really want to see what an accomplished company like The Coalition is doing even with rocks, but a change of scenery would have been nice.
(*Whether we were right about their expectations or not, we still all had them. UE5 was always going to be a past-2021 technology system, but once we saw it in action, it wanted to see it fully unleashed in games targeting 2022 and beyond, and we hoped that some elite developers were already using UE5 even though it wasn't and still isn't done yet. Plus especially once the next-gen consoles actually arrived in our homes, the idea that next-gen engines like UE5 were still years away felt confusing. It's never been like this, where we've had the actual next-gen boxes and still not be quite sure what to expect out of them.)
If it had been Sony's Bend Studio doing the UE5 demo on PS5, and they tweeted out images of them experimenting with rocks, it would have been the same situation.
BTW, there are independent developers out there working with the Early Access version of UE5, and they've gone beyond rocks. We're waiting for professional studios to show what they're doing with UE5 in real games, but for now, check out projects like this:
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CamHostage
Member
Great find, although unfortunately, that doesn't necessarily mean posted "the next day...to the public". She might be talking about it posting to the GDC Vault archive for badge holders.
I hope I'm wrong about reading it that way, though, or maybe somebody can get a more clear tweet response...
on the GDC website it shows not being recorded for the GDC vault soooooo
oldergamer
Member
Kate means posted for the public
JackMcGunns
Member
Ah, the "persecution complex" angle, used by fanboys to revise history and deny events that happened.
Sony has had much longer since it first showcased UE5 and have showed NO GAMES yet, but no criticism there. This is the first showing of UE5 on Series X and already everyone criticizing and expecting an actual game when the damn thing became available just recently. Well the presentation isn't public, but I'm sure the people that needed to see it got the benefits from it, there's no reason to show it here where fanboys will just pick it apart and complain about the wrong things, it's a presentation for developers.
technically the 2nd Epic Games UE5 demo (with the titan) showed a few shots on XSX, but this will be more fleshed out and obviously all on XSX not mixed in.Ah, the "persecution complex" angle, used by fanboys to revise history and deny events that happened.
Sony has had much longer since it first showcased UE5 and have showed NO GAMES yet, but no criticism there. This is the first showing of UE5 on Series X and already everyone criticizing and expecting an actual game when the damn thing became available just recently. Well the presentation isn't public, but I'm sure the people that needed to see it got the benefits from it, there's no reason to show it here where fanboys will just pick it apart and complain about the wrong things, it's a presentation for developers.
Alex from DF commented somewhere on Era that he was impressed with the demo so I hope the presentation made puiblic tomorrow isn't just the demo reel but the technical discussion. Sounded like from Alex that it's at 30fps though bc of Lumen's limitations
JackMcGunns
Member
CamHostage
Member
Ah, the "persecution complex" angle, used by fanboys to revise history and deny events that happened.
Sony has had much longer since it first showcased UE5 and have showed NO GAMES yet, but no criticism there. This is the first showing of UE5 on Series X and already everyone criticizing and expecting an actual game when the damn thing became available just recently.
You're conflating so many different events into one, imagining the internet as one big voice that's speaking all in unison for or against a topic, and that's silly.
Sure, there were Sony fans who were claiming the first UE5 demo as proof of their consoles strength that MS didn't answer back at (which is lame on their part since UE5 is always meant to play on this generation of consoles and it wasn't "secret sauce" in the SSD or anything else that brought that demo to life.) Those are those people, and they've got something wrong with their sense of understanding. There's no reason to obsess over UE5 as a battleground of these two consoles. They will both play UE5 games (and so will Switch and your phone, albeit at greatly reduced specs and with no Lumen or Nanite,) and there's nothing that's been said about work with Unreal Engine on either console that says they run the engine any better or worse than the other (albeit PS was the only console to have shown it for that first year, but Xbox was shown in May and then today and tomorrow will be a kind of milestone in Xbox history of having a UE5 demo showcased on its hardware and having all of that bullshit fully put to rest.)
And nobody asked for teaser images. GDC info barely ever escapes the confines of the Moscone Center in the first place. It's a developer's show. But Epic and The Coalition and Microsoft put that out there, and they're putting Alpha Point to the public tomorrow. They invited hype, and with that, they invited scrutiny.
The situation is very simple IMO. Response to the tweets about Alpha Point being less impressive than hoped should be overtly obvious to anybody who looks at that screenshot, and should trigger zero discussions that fire a shot in the console wars. So far, it's rocks. We saw some rocks in May of 2020, we saw some more rocks in May of 2021. We're ready for a big studio to show something that isn't rocks. If Alpha Point goes beyond what was in that tweet image, that will be exciting because that'll be something we haven't seen before, be it on Xbox or any other platform. What they teased the public with, what was picked up by GAF and by news sites as a tease of something to tune in for, what Microsoft prefaced by saying, "With sights on the future, The Coalition and Epic Games are working to set a new standard of technical excellence for next-gen gaming," (albeit generally about the technological work at both companies, not specifically that Alpha Point was a slice of that new standard,) what we have talked about on this forum for 165 posts now, was rocks. I like rocks. I like Unreal Engine rocks. I would like to see something soon from a talented studio like The Coalition that is not rocks. If that's not Alpha Point, then I look forward to the next event that does.
I don't even mean to be bickering about this, if you actually read any of my posts you'll see way more nuance about the situation than, "Meh, rocks", and I am excited to check out Alpha Point tomorrow. But here is 2020's rocks and here is tomorrow's rocks. It is what it is, but don't you wish you were seeing something other than rocks?
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CamHostage
Member
Impressions and a breakdown of some of the points at the "'Alpha Point' UE5 Demo: Unlocking Artist Potential" presentation earlier today:
www.pcgamer.com
A whole Xbox 360 character fits in the eyelashes of an Unreal Engine 5 character
The Gears 5 studio has been experimenting with Epic's latest engine, which is in early access now.
ZehDon
Gold Member
Impressions and a breakdown of some of the points at the "'Alpha Point' UE5 Demo: Unlocking Artist Potential" presentation earlier today:
A whole Xbox 360 character fits in the eyelashes of an Unreal Engine 5 character
The Gears 5 studio has been experimenting with Epic's latest engine, which is in early access now.
Nice. A couple of note-worthy take-aways:
And to help expectations in check:
Sounds like a few seconds long to show off the rendering. This isn't a 10 minute featurette.
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CamHostage
Member
I think it's probably that "this" will not be Gears or any title, the presentation is just a few test projects by the design team made just for this demo, they may well have no bearing on an actual project they're developing.
The Coalition is said to be working on multiple projects (all UE5, when they get going full-scale with it.) One is probably a Gears title, since they are the franchise bearers of that and it is expected to be continued; nothing is known about the other project/projects going on at the studio, and/or if Alpha Point is built using test work invested into an actual future project.
Gears of War developer The Coalition working on 'multiple new projects'
Gears of War developer The Coalition has announced it's moving to the Unreal Engine 5 for 'multiple new projects' in th…
www.vg247.com
Yeah, it's smaller than I had hoped, but it's good to have the bandaid pulled off before getting to see Alpha Point tomorrow. Tech spec points are good to see as far as a working Xbox SX project (it's in line with and a little better even than what's already out there, either way it's worth hearing from somebody outside Epic,) and them employing Temporal Super Resolution already sounds compelling. I wish it was a more complete demo sequence, and I really wish it were gameplay, but what can you do, at least it's something.
From the description of the talk, it feels like The Coalition isn't necessarily working on UE5 release versions any more updated than what's in the Early Access? It's not completed technology (not release-ready for full-scale productions,) but I really expected tight-with-Epic studios like The Coalition would have been ahead with the tech, if not even a pilot partner with it. It's an unusual circumstance to see so much UE5 indie work out there with the early access version (albeit a lot is UE4 projects converted up,) you keep expecting tons of professional titles shooting out of the ground already but it's been eerily quiet as far as commercial UE5 games so far. I had in my head that we'd see whole ton of new games announced using UE5 at this year's GDC after that first killer demo last year, the way we got tons of UE4 games quickly lined up when that tech fired up, but this will be and has been a different kind of technology cycle.
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Craig of War
Banned
New Image
Snowdonhoffen
Member
Sounds good, maybe even the textures will be 4K kinda like that first UE5 demo.
But I was thinking they would be using assets with millions of triangles, or maybe the constant mention of triangles when talking about UE5 made me think that, lol
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Lethal01
Member
The tech has it's weaknesses, it's not about it being early. You aren't going to get nanite meshes as deformable as normal meshes for years.
The good news is that at it's worse things will only be as "bad" as Unreal 4.
CamHostage
Member
Heh, I get what you mean, and it's hard to say what being in "early" with a UE5 project would have meant with an engine that is trying to exemplify the concept of, "It just works..."
I wasn't expecting them to have some heretofore unknown UE5.1 in the office and have Alpha Point show off amazing, never-before-seen tech. However, I think it's fair to have expected them to have more than a month's worth of comfort with it, right? They're already working on optimization projects and conversations, it seems safe to assume they know more about even the Early Access build than most of the freelancers kicking the EA's tires. From this PC Gamer dissemination though, not much seems to have been said beyond what other folks out there are sharing with their tests with the preview build. The main difference is, Coalition is doing it on an Xbox, which is cool to see, but it's hard to label that as "in-depth lessons for...the best real-time results from Unreal Engine" when others have gone into deeper depth with the widely available access build.
But then again, if enough of UE5 performs as it should, maybe this will be a different kind of development cycle than usual, where the "engine' is solid by itself and the workload is in the plugins, the assets, the additional components, not the "mastery" of Unreal technology. (And UE4 was already leading this way, so maybe the ramp for UE5 will be just that smooth.)
...I'm just so used to developers showcasing their software by saying, "We're using the industry-standard XX Engine on this project —now, here's all the sh** we had to rip out of it and all the new pieces we had to refashion and bolt on for it to work the way we wanted for our project". We haven't gotten that kind of bravado of technical wizardry from a UE5 developer yet. It's still early, but maybe we won't get much of that. Maybe projects will just work, instead we'll see lots of UE-textbook 30FPS @4KviaTSR baselines that the artists and technical engineers then work on bells and whistles for, because the baselines really does "just work" and the flexing effort needs to go into the game production, not the technology...
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onesvenus
Member
Even with that being true, being able to render highly detailed static environment meshes will result in amazing environments. There are a lot of games where environments is mostly done with static meshes.
In addition to that, Nanite and non-Nanite meshes can be mixed, so you can still use traditional methods to render grass for example while using Nanite to render the scenery.
Plus this doesn't make any sense, Unreal 5 in it's entirety just like versions of unreal 4 is always available to anyone, just go on github and get the latest version off it,,the reason no one in their right mind would use it(Beyond playing around to see the latest feature) is because it's highly unstable. So obviously you would use the stable version of the engine. Source ue5 has a shit ton of features that early access ue5 doesn't have yet, since those features are actively being worked on and could break, change, just not work or be scraped tomorrow a studio isn't going to use it. So what mythical version on Unreal these studios would have access to is anyone's guess,
onesvenus
Member
Even then, there are some features, like Nanite and Lumen, which are stable enough for some use cases and which are fundamentally different than what's available with UE4 (good luck having a project with +100 million of triangles like in The Coalition demo), that makes complete sense to try them to scope what you'll be able to do with it. If nobody did that we would be getting the same games we are getting with UE4 but prettier.
It’s effectively, benchmarking the hardware and scoping what you can do as a team. Benchmark triangle throughput per frame for example .
onesvenus
Member
Exactly, I can't see how that is bad at all
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Typical internet, I can't wait for people to say "is that it" "what a waste of time" to something that was never hyped up by anyone but people on the internet.
I think unreal engine 5 became available to Devs late last year / early this year so this will have been made in a few months? There's no way we should be expecting games being demo'd in this engine for some time yet.
I think unreal engine 5 became available to Devs late last year / early this year so this will have been made in a few months? There's no way we should be expecting games being demo'd in this engine for some time yet.
Insane Metal
Member
Huh, 46fps for a tech demo that is not running at 4K? Doesn't sound super impressive tbh, but let's see.
nekrik
Member
just_like_that
Member
the ue5 demo on ps5 was way more impressive than this
TBiddy
Member
You didn't even see this demo yet, new guy.
onesvenus
Member
I suppose you also weren't impressed by UE5 PS5 demo then, were you? That was running at 1440p at 30fps.
Ah no, you were.
Is this a case of changing criteria depending on which plastic box runs it? I'll let the forum decide
Did you attend the GDC or are you talking about the couple of images from this thread which don't show almost anything?
oldergamer
Member
The lengths some here will go to in order to try and prove something shown on ps5 is different or better then what is show on xbox is fucking pathetic.
The MO is claim some aspect you don't know about is superior ( like the people that thought epic was maxing out memory and ssd bandwidth with the first unreal 5 demo. Anyone that thought that was wrong)
Or its either downplay unreal 5 (remember those people saying you cant make a next gen game unless you avoid supporting lower powered hardware? Which was stupid since ps5 was showing unreal 5. Aka something that looked more next gen then everything else shown to date running on an engine that scales down to phones.
or say its a less impressive tech demo even when they clearly haven't seen it.
I said it before, MS has many studios using unreal 5 on thier games. We are likely to see more impressive titles make use of this going forward.
Kagey K
Banned
Would have been smarter for them to cut it down to 40, then it would be running at the new hotness, and be a big deal for consoles.
oldergamer
Member
thats a stupid statement considering you haven't seen the tech demo yesterday.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Insane Metal
Member
It looked awesome, how would I not be impressed? The picture above looks ok, that's why I said "but let's see". I haven't seen it yet, but I have seen UE5 demo.
Also, 100M triangles vs. billions.
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onesvenus
Member
In that sentence I quote you only talk about resolution and framerate, nothing else. It reads like you imply that with it having that resolution and framerate it can't be impressive. I was just pointing that the PS5 demo, which you found impressive, had even lower resolution and framerate.
JackMcGunns
Member
Insane Metal
Member
Okay then sorry If that's what I made it look like.
Should've just said I'll wait till I see it instead, it could look impressive. Screenshots most of the time don't make justice to what a game or engine look like when running.
ZywyPL
Banned
Last year's demo was running at 1440p30, using the same temporal upscaling and was hardlocked to 30FPS, but most likely had a similar headroom. I have no idea how much more optimized the engine can get in the next year or two, but I guess that's what we have to prepare ourselves for on the consoles if we want those level of graphics - upscaled QHD 30FPS, maybe 40Hz/unlocked+VRR options for people with 120Hz displays. But to achieve 60FPS, let alone 120, I think it's safe to say we will have to say goodbye for such detailed assets, and especially Lumen will have to get seriously toned down as that's what eats most GPU power in UE5.
was a bs from the start
always been the best dev around (and more skilled) using that engine ..if there is anyone outside the developers of the engine itself who can impress ... those are the coalition
ResilientBanana
Member
I'm sure with less poly's and lower texture resolutions we can get 60fps out of the engine. But let's be real, no one wants that.
Yes which is why they used the early access UE5 and not the source UE5. He was suggesting that these studios have access to some super duper version of the engine with unicorn features, they do not.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Those are just stupid stats that you listed. They don't mean anything.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
The Global Illumination(lumen) is the most likely cause for why the demo is running at such a lower resolutions and fps.
Nanites triangle handling makes poly count almost irrelevant (part of why its magic) and textures arent going to be too much of an issue when you can replace a whole bunch of maps with triangles.
Lumen looks amazing but it currently costs a ton on consoles, 60fps is still some ways away.
What I would like to see is if Enlighten have any sort of nextgen update to their lighting tech.
Maybe integrate Enlighten Vx into Unreal Engine while still using Nanite because they were able to get to 60fps on consoles a while ago.
Nanite is still fucking magic, but Lumen is currently just a bit too expensive for me to back just yet.
Dunno if the virtual shadow maps require Lumen or not, but it really is expensive right now and we will have to rely on lower resolutions to get to 60fps.....let alone attempting to hit 120fps.
Given time im sure they will get Lumen to an exceptional level.....but at this point if you can get away with RTGI then just use RTGI.
