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Why did Sony Close some of their older Studios and is now buying up others when they could have maintained the ones they already had?

Fahdis

Member
Can someone explain to me how talent gets released in the gaming industry?

But others are bought up like Housemarque? I mean besides Super Stardust HD, Resogun (2 Indies) and Returnal (AA) I don't remember anything exceptional from the studio (not trying to put their talent or potential down).

Sony closed these studios for business "reasons".

Evolution - I literally get upset about this every other month.
Incognito
BigBig
Zipper
Liverpool
Cambridge

I feel like Guerilla was next if they pitched another Killzone. But why not let these "studios" present their vision and new projects? Aren't there board members and business execs from the company who also decide on what needs to sell? Who decides this? If the latter, didn't they technically kill the studios by having them make the exact same thing they wanted?

I mean why do most large Pubs buy studios just to shut them down? Liverpool (formerly Psygnosis) particularly had a legacy history on PlayStation. Let's keep the focus on Sony because *cough* EA *cough*.
 
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KAL2006

Banned
It was a different time. Now everything is consolidating. If Sony had those studuos now I don't think they would sell any unless they haven't performed well for a long number of years and multiple games under selling.
 

Jaybe

Member
People try to play arm chair CEO but the really inner workings are more complicated. Probably numerous reasons the public will never know about. Vision, leadership, management, technology, costs, office leases, talent drain, personnel issues, personality conflicts, poor products, uninspired roadmap, wrong time/wrong place. What’s probably most important is that the talented individual developers and artists on those teams got picked up by other studios.
 

nush

Member
It's called management. Ususally money is the deciding factor.
I think it's this. You've got a group of long term developers on a higher salary, benefits, office. So if you cut them loose you can reset their salary at a lower rate at a new studio. It's a cost saving as they will pool in the same places.
 

Unknown?

Member
Incognito was because the main team left to become their own team. Liverpool sat and did nothing for generations! Only one PS3 WipEout and it was a remake of the PSP games?!

Cambridge was also doing nothing for a long time but this one hit it big with Mercenaries so I don't quite understand it. That one should have stayed open.
 

ZywyPL

Banned
What's going on with all those PS5/Sony threads today, it this some paid, organized action? xD

Anyway, the answer is very simple - they are adjusting for their long-term strategy, that's all. Whoever doesn't fit has to go, or at least has to get a serious restructuring, while companies that fit their strategy perfectly will be attempted to be acquired.
 

Fahdis

Member
Incognito was because the main team left to become their own team. Liverpool sat and did nothing for generations! Only one PS3 WipEout and it was a remake of the PSP games?!

Cambridge was also doing nothing for a long time but this one hit it big with Mercenaries so I don't quite understand it. That one should have stayed open.

I mean if that was the case... Sony Bend was literally sitting on their ass for 6-7 years outside of Vita Uncharted. Why weren't they let go? Just curious.
 

Kilau

Member
image4.gif
 

sublimit

Banned
Why does almost every major publisher (MS,EA etc) have been closing down studios while buying new ones when they could have maintained the ones they already had?

Because they are not successful enough or they are not being worthy to maintain their operations.
 
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phil_t98

#SonyToo
That is a good question, the studios they closed have great talent in them and with people demanding more exclusives the more studios the better.

maybe the Sony owned ones were as cost effective as these new studios but I don’t get that as you could scale back the ones they already owned
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Evolution was a travesty.

Whats worse is their technology seems to have gone with them.
At the very least Sony could have kept the engine and tech to be used on other titles.

Sony dont exactly need an Arcade racer but who doesnt like an Arcade racer?

P.S
Sometimes one studio doesnt make as much sense as another, so you close one then immediately buy a another one.
 

Interfectum

Member
It's easy to just create a big list of closed studios without much context. If you look at every studio individually and see the point in time Sony closed them (leadership changes, state of console war, etc) you'd probably not have to ask this question.
 
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JoeBudden

Member
I remember back in the day playing SOCOM 2 online with Just Blaze...

I'm pretty sure most of these studios employees just got shifted around to other Sony owned studios. Guerilla has been rumored to be rebooting SOCOM for a long time now.
 
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RoboFu

One of the green rats
perceived growth, any publicly traded company has to show that it's actually doing something for the future to gain and keep investors.
 

dezzy8

Member
I remember back in the day playing SOCOM 2 online with Just Blaze...

I'm pretty sure most of these studios employees just got shifted around to other Sony owned studios. Guerilla has been rumored to be rebooting SOCOM for a long time now.
I’m still hoping that rumor is true.
 

Unknown?

Member
I mean if that was the case... Sony Bend was literally sitting on their ass for 6-7 years outside of Vita Uncharted. Why weren't they let go? Just curious.
Probably would have if Days Gone flopped but outside of lower meta it sold pretty well.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Methinks some of you do not understand what a studio is.

Its a creative unit that is judged based on cost efficiency and profitability of output. Fail on either of those fronts and its a liability because with game-dev expense tends to be heavily front-loaded. One failed project and you are in a deep, dark, hole because you need to convince the bean counters to fund you for the next few years. What's worse is it adds scrutiny when it comes time to pitch your follow-up; coming off a success and coming off a break-even or worse a (perceived) failure are very different scenarios.

Failure compounds itself, and especially if you have a large team/offices and hence a high burn-rate on payroll and infrastructure every pitch that fails to get greenlit digs you further into the pit.

This sounds harsh but the reality is there's only so much money allocated per year to procure product. So if you have teams sat largely idle generating pitches and demo's that go nowhere its just a huge inefficiency begging to be excised.
 

JoeBudden

Member
I’m still hoping that rumor is true.

SOCOM was great back in the day, but its really just a generic tactical military shooter. It won't have a real identity today to distinguish itself from juggernauts like Call of Duty, Battlefield, Rainbow 6, etc.

I would much rather them reboot Killzone and do the lore of that universe some justice.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
the closure of studio liverpool AKA psygnosis and evolution is unforgivable.

Liverpool got shuttered primarily because of burn-rate when they couldn't get a project greenlit, and Evo for a series of commercial failures. They are perfect examples of the phenomena I described.
 

djkimothy

Member
You forgot Japan Studio OP.

That's criminal.

People keep idolizing the studio yet they haven’t made a hit game since maybe Last Guardian?

This article from way back when (2013)outlines the problems it had internally. It just took this long to shut it down.


Getting there, however, won't be that easy. Becker, who has been at the studio for two and half years, inherited something of a mess. "The thing I was shocked by was the number of titles in production," he said of when he first arrived. "That completely blew my mind." At that time, there were 40-something titles in production, and the environment was, what Becker called, "a free-for-all."
Nothing has change ever since so it was time to shut down the dev team. Not even Shu could save them.

The part of Japan studio responsible with external partnership (Bloodborne/Demon’s Souls remake) still live on but under another banner i think. It’s basically rolled under the Playstation Studios banner.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Evolution was a travesty.

Whats worse is their technology seems to have gone with them.
At the very least Sony could have kept the engine and tech to be used on other titles.

Sony dont exactly need an Arcade racer but who doesnt like an Arcade racer?

P.S
Sometimes one studio doesnt make as much sense as another, so you close one then immediately buy a another one.
I brought this up yesterday but it seems PD needed the PS5 horsepower to add better weather, 3D trees and realtime time of day changes. Evo had all that on the PS4. yes, they targeted 1080p 30 fps but no one forced PD to target 1080p 60 fps either. Couldve easily dropped down to 900p 60 fps saved A LOT of GPU power that couldve been used towards these features.

Sony killing evolution studios in the midst of being on top for two years at the time was just a cherry on top of a good 5 or so years where they shut down several studios and bought new. It would take them 4 more years to acquire another. Sucker Punch was the last studio they bought before buying Insomniac in 2019. That's 1 new studio in a good 9 years while shutting down around 6 studios.

If MS hadnt gone out and bought these new studios, Sony wouldnt be buying any of these new studios.
 

Rikku-X

Member
Why did Microsoft sell Lionhead Studios? Which still blows my mind to this day.
 
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Varteras

Gold Member
Most of those studios simply underperformed and were not financially sound for Sony to maintain. If your games aren't going to sell well they should at least receive high praise and generate conversation about your platform. Most of those studios failed to do any of that.

Cambridge should have been shut down long before it was. That was always a mediocre studio at best. Killzone: Mercenary and RIGS were the last gasps of a studio that was probably already on its way out. After all the subpar games they released those last two games needed to be phenomenal and they were not even close.

Liverpool was simply not making money. I know a lot of people point to their legacy but much of that legacy was thanks to the games they helped publish. Similar to Japan Studio. As time went on Liverpool became just another racing studio for Sony. Making the Formula 1 and Wipeout games. The former never did well and very much overlapped with Gran Turismo. The latter was a great franchise but it just started failing to grab much attention compared to its earlier years.

Zipper was a really good studio prior to acquisition. After they were acquired they went downhill for some reason. Their games over the next 6 years did not do well at all and the critical reception to them was far lower than what they did when they were independent.

BigBig was a sister studio to Evolution. It was founded by the same guys who made the latter. When Sony bought Evolution, BigBig came as a packaged deal. I doubt Sony was ever that interested in them in the first place. They never did anything really noteworthy.

Incognito was a very different case. Sony didn't want to shut them down. That was a situation where the studio just experienced not one mass exodus of staff, but two. Back to back. The first group formed Eat Sleep Play and the second formed Lightbox. Interestingly enough, Sony partnered with both independent studios upon their founding. There were so few staff left at Incognito that Sony was faced with a choice. Close the studio down and cut their losses or try to hire so many staff to work at a studio in Utah that you're basically starting from scratch and building a whole new team. Either way, what Incognito had been was gone. The talent and culture evaporated pretty much overnight.

Evolution was in a similar boat to most of the other studios. It had just been failing to produce. The MotorStorm franchise started off as a hit but over the course of several games the critical and commercial reception declined. Then they did Driveclub, which had so many issues prior to release that they had to delay the game a whole year. Even then, it released with a lot of issues. It went on to sell 2 million copies but the damage was done. The critical reception of the game was much lower than anticipated even after a 1-year delay and that delay would undoubtedly end up costing Sony more money than they felt would have been worth it. It didn't help that Evolution, like Liverpool before it, was another racing studio. Racing games have been in decline and just don't have nearly the kind of pull they use to.

It's also worth pointing out that many of the staff who were laid off from Evolution went to work for Codemasters. They were given their own project within the studio called Onrush. A game that did so poorly that most of the former Evolution staff were let go from Codemasters too, including the former director of Driveclub who also directed Onrush. The remaining staff were settled into support roles at the company. Some feel this result vindicates Sony's decision to close Evolution.

Another important thing to remember is that most of these studio closures happened during Kaz Hirai's run as head of the company. The PS3 era saw Sony in a very poor financial situation. Not just PlayStation but the entire company. Hirai employed a lot of Western business practices to get the company back on track. This included trimming a lot of fat. An example being Sony Online Entertainment, which had been bleeding tons of money. I don't remember the exact amount but it was startling how much of Sony's money was being eaten by one group within Sony's entertainment divisions.

One thing that Sony has made clear over the last decade now is that if they're putting a lot of money into you, then you need to produce. Either your games sell a ton of copies or get high critical reception or you do something that no one else in the company does. They'll give you chances but not nearly like they used to. Sony wants the PlayStation name to be associated with quality across the board.

As far as why Sony bought Housemarque, it's because they see current talent and more potential in the studio. Their last five games have a combined Metacritic average of 82 with three of them scoring in the mid to high 80's. Their most recent release was an 86. They also do the kind of games no one else in Sony's stable does. For a studio that has only ever done lower budget arcade-like shooters, Returnal was impressive for their first go at a bigger budget title. A lot of that game was outside their comfort zone.
 
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Papacheeks

Banned
Can someone explain to me how talent gets released in the gaming industry?

But others are bought up like Housemarque? I mean besides Super Stardust HD, Resogun (2 Indies) and Returnal (AA) I don't remember anything exceptional from the studio (not trying to put their talent or potential down).

Sony closed these studios for business "reasons".

Evolution - I literally get upset about this every other month.
Incognito
BigBig
Zipper
Liverpool
Cambridge

I feel like Guerilla was next if they pitched another Killzone. But why not let these "studios" present their vision and new projects? Aren't there board members and business execs from the company who also decide on what needs to sell? Who decides this? If the latter, didn't they technically kill the studios by having them make the exact same thing they wanted?

I mean why do most large Pubs buy studios just to shut them down? Liverpool (formerly Psygnosis) particularly had a legacy history on PlayStation. Let's keep the focus on Sony because *cough* EA *cough*.

All I can say to you is do some research on these studios. The only one in my eyes that was done dirty was cambridge. The rest had tons of time and titles to figure shit out as a studio, and were given complete freedom.

Zipper's issue was the PSN hack with Socom 4. But in the end the game wasnt that good, and they followed it up with a vita game that was literally socom with a different name. They also were given a shit ton of money for MAG, which also flopped.

Evolution deserved to be closed and then when the people from that studio moved on they made basically the same game under codemasters and that flopped. If you dont diversify and try different shit, your going to back your studio into corner at some point. Thats what a lot of these studios did.
 

Bryank75

Banned
Most of those studios simply underperformed and were not financially sound for Sony to maintain. If your games aren't going to sell well they should at least receive high praise and generate conversation about your platform. Most of those studios failed to do any of that.

Cambridge should have been shut down long before it was. That was always a mediocre studio at best. Killzone: Mercenary and RIGS were the last gasps of a studio that was probably already on its way out. After all the subpar games they released those last two games needed to be phenomenal and they were not even close.

Liverpool was simply not making money. I know a lot of people point to their legacy but much of that legacy was thanks to the games they helped publish. Similar to Japan Studio. As time went on Liverpool became just another racing studio for Sony. Making the Formula 1 and Wipeout games. The former never did well and very much overlapped with Gran Turismo. The latter was a great franchise but it just started failing to grab much attention compared to its earlier years.

Zipper was a really good studio prior to acquisition. After they were acquired they went downhill for some reason. Their games over the next 6 years did not do well at all and the critical reception to them was far lower than what they did when they were independent.

BigBig was a sister studio to Evolution. It was founded by the same guys who made the latter. When Sony bought Evolution, BigBig came as a packaged deal. I doubt Sony was ever that interested in them in the first place. They never did anything really noteworthy.

Incognito was a very different case. Sony didn't want to shut them down. That was a situation where the studio just experienced not one mass exodus of staff, but two. Back to back. The first group formed Eat Sleep Play and the second formed Lightbox. Interestingly enough, Sony partnered with both independent studios upon their founding. There were so few staff left at Incognito that Sony was faced with a choice. Close the studio down and cut their losses or try to hire so many staff to work at a studio in Utah that you're basically starting from scratch and building a whole new team. Either way, what Incognito had been was gone. The talent and culture evaporated pretty much overnight.

Evolution was in a similar boat to most of the other studios. It had just been failing to produce. The MotorStorm franchise started off as a hit but over the course of several games the critical and commercial reception declined. Then they did Driveclub, which had so many issues prior to release that they had to delay the game a whole year. Even then, it released with a lot of issues. It went on to sell 2 million copies but the damage was done. The critical reception of the game was much lower than anticipated even after a 1-year delay and that delay would undoubtedly end up costing Sony more money than they felt ended up being worth it. It didn't help that Evolution, like Liverpool before it, was another racing studio. Racing games have been in decline and just don't have nearly the kind of pull they use to.

It's also worth pointing out that many of the staff who were laid off from Evolution went to work for Codemasters. They were given their own project within the studio called Onrush. A game that did so poorly that most of the former Evolution staff were let go from Codemasters too, including the former director of Driveclub who also directed Onrush. The remaining staff were settled into support roles at the company. Some feel this result vindicates Sony's decision to close Evolution.

Another important thing to remember is that most of these studio closures happened during Kaz Hirai's run as head of the company. The PS3 era saw Sony in a very poor financial situation. Not just PlayStation but the entire company. Hirai employed a lot of Western business practices to get the company back on track. This included trimming a lot of fat. An example being Sony Online Entertainment, which had been bleeding tons of money. I don't remember the exact amount but it was startling how much of Sony's money was being eaten by one group within Sony's entertainment divisions.

One thing that Sony has made clear over the last decade now is that if they're putting a lot of money into you, then you need to produce. Either your games sell a ton of copies or get high critical reception or you do something that no one else in the company does. They'll give you chances but not nearly like they used to. Sony wants the PlayStation name to be associated with quality across the board.

As far as why Sony bought Housemarque, it's because they see current talent and more potential in the studio. Their last five games have a combined Metacritic average of 82 with three of them scoring in the mid to high 80's. Their most recent release was an 86. They also do the kind of games no one else in Sony's stable does. For a studio that has only ever done lower budget arcade-like shooters, Returnal was impressive for their first go at a bigger budget title. A lot of that game was outside their comfort zone.

That Incognito must have been a hard lesson....

You buy a studio and the talent leaves to make a new studio, who's aim is to be bought again. I mean it makes no sense to Sony really.

Kaz did an incredible job turning the company around, he should really be honored for that.

I'm hoping for some good acquisitions in the future.... some companies that are top of their niche like Arc System Works and maybe an increase in the stake Sony have in Kadokawa up to 51%.
But there are a lot of things that can go wrong with them, I mean MSFT can't have been happy about Deathloop and Ghostwire for instance..... not getting any value out of 7.5 billion for over a year, must be frustrating.
 

Shmunter

Member
They don’t tolerate failure. Evolution fucked up Driveclub launch….gone. Days Gone underperforme? Franchise, dead. Japan Studio took 2 gens to release Last Guardian….you know the rest.
 

Spacefish

Member
Liverpool was weird since they still had a desire to release a Wipeout on ps4, the remaster did well. Evolution is a questionable decision since they will inevitably seek to emulate the success of Forza horizon and now they have no studio to do this. Studio japan is personally the most egregious but I wont argue it was a poor business decision (short term) only a ruthless butchering of their identity. The most confusing closures are the bi-polar ones they seem to regret 5 years later, I think Liverpool, Evolution and long term Studio Japan all fit into this group.

Being ruthless about delivering might bring results short term but that pressure is going to melt all their golden eggs, If I was a developer working for Microsoft it feels like I would be in a much better environment to make something interesting.
 

Pejo

Member
I'm guessing that when they purchase some of the devs, they are getting related IPs too, which is a draw. Same reason companies buy other companies just for patents.
 
People keep idolizing the studio yet they haven’t made a hit game since maybe Last Guardian?

This article from way back when (2013)outlines the problems it had internally. It just took this long to shut it down.



Nothing has change ever since so it was time to shut down the dev team. Not even Shu could save them.

The part of Japan studio responsible with external partnership (Bloodborne/Demon’s Souls remake) still live on but under another banner i think. It’s basically rolled under the Playstation Studios banner.

Yep, Xdevs, which now operates as one global unit, seeking out partnerships in Europe, Asia and North America.
 

MastaKiiLA

Member
Performance. It's not about the number of studios, it's about the quality of output, and efficiency of resource management. If Sony closed them, we can only assume that they didn't hit the benchmarks set by Sony. I'm not certain any of the creatives behind the closed studios have gone on to do great things elsewhere in the industry, so doesn't seem like they lost anything.

Keeping an underperforming studio just means you have extra dead weight to commit a portion of your budget to. Excise the excess, and try to be smarter about future talent acquisitions.
 

kingpotato

Ask me about my Stream Deck
Not remarking on any specific studio mentioned in the OP, but I love how people say studio as if it's a static object. A studio is the people who work there. People come and go, people change.
 
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