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[DragoonKain]

JRPGs used to be my favorite genre for like 90% of my life, but I’ve grown tired of them for various reasons. I still like them and play them, but I used to play them almost exclusively and now I only play one or two a year. The grinding was a big reason why, it’s a deterrent for a completionist like me, especially for things like random drops.

I’m playing Radiant Historia and the rare random drops in this game aren’t as bad as I’ve encountered in other games, not even close, but even for a game like this it’s still incredibly mind-numbing and tedious, and just an incredibly lazy gameplay design.

Essentially, the developers decided that instead of having a great weapon, armor, whatever hidden really secretly, or put behind a complex puzzle, or guarded by a really difficult enemy, or acquired through a long series of sidequests, we’re going to get lazy and have the player run back and forth between a save point and a location and kill the same enemy over and over and over and over and over and over and over again for hours. Destroying the pacing of what might be a good game, and totally making a game that may have been good absolutely infuriating. And if this enemy isn’t near a save point? Even worse. Have to skip through gameplay areas or spend time traversing only to reach the enemy, and then do those entire sections all over again as well. It’s not fun, it doesn’t require skill, it’s not even difficult. It’s just annoying and time consuming. That’s all it is.

All you do is adjust the code of the frequency of what each enemy drops, and done. Requires almost no effort.

And when it’s really rare, by the time you get that item, it had taken so long, it pretty much wipes out all the rewarding feeling you might get. At that point you’re just annoyed you had to derail what you were doing in the game to get that item. But when you get items from a long puzzle or beating a difficult enemy, that’s extremely rewarding. That’s how you handle great items.

Ban rare drops forever.

 

[Umbasaborne]

Padding because they think there games need to be an arbitrary amount of hours long and this a cheap lazy way to do that. Fuck those fucking rare drops in demons souls, i dont have time for that. I just bought 100’s them off someone on ebay for 5 bucks who probably hacked their game

 

[Jeeves]

I feel like outside of something like an MMO that's designed to keep you playing the same content repeatedly, the intention behind what you're describing isn't for the player to stop and reset the game until they get the item. I think it's just supposed to be there to add the possibility of someone having a lucky playthrough in which they get the rare item. Players who don't get it can just move on as normal, and probably not even know that item exists.

Unless we're talking about rare drops that are required for progression. Those can fuck off.

 

[hybrid_birth]

I remember the last time Rare dropped a deuce.

 

[Danjin44]

It part of Monster Hunter‘s core gameplay loop.

 

[clem84]

In any offline RPG, you have a point. I still don't think they're all bad. It's a way to reward perseverance. You could have most of the stuff in the game hidden behind the kind of hurdles you described, and if one or two is based on random drops I'm ok with it. You could get lucky and get rare drops at the beginning of the game too. They add a random elements to the experience, kind of like a lottery.

Online RPGs on the other hand have gameplay that's based on random drops. It's part of the dynamics of those games. You got certain rare drops, your friends got different ones so you can trade. I think they're fine for those games.

 

[DragoonKain]

I feel like outside of something like an MMO that's designed to keep you playing the same content repeatedly, the intention behind what you're describing isn't for the player to stop and reset the game until they get the item. I think it's just supposed to be there to add the possibility of someone having a lucky playthrough in which they get the rare item. Players who don't get it can just move on as normal, and probably not even know that item exists.

Unless we're talking about rare drops that are required for progression. Those can fuck off.

I think back in the day that was the case, without Internet forums and social media, but in modern times where everyone has access to internet and guides, I think they know that everyone’s going to know what items are in the game and what aren’t. I think they were just too lazy to design anything interesting or elaborate to give you great items, so they just adjust a digit under an enemy’s drop and move on. And if they have to rationalize it(which they don’t) they can just say games have been doing that for years, and jerk off to people spending 200 hours on their game because they want to get those last items that are taking them 5 hours apiece.

 

[laynelane]

I had very similar thoughts while farming for rare materials in Demon's Souls. I was happy to finally get them, though, just so I could finally move the fuck on. Being a completionist can, at times, really suck.

 

[RoboFu]

In a loot game they are fine but not in a rpg.

 

[Freeman76]

Never play PSO!!

Personally, I love games with a treasure hunt aspect, unfortunately though, they are now plagued by MTX a lot of the time, so many games get it wrong.

 

[Jeeves]

I think back in the day that was the case, without Internet forums and social media, but in modern times where everyone has access to internet and guides, I think they know that everyone’s going to know what items are in the game and what aren’t. I think they were just too lazy to design anything interesting or elaborate to give you great items, so they just adjust a digit under an enemy’s drop and move on. And if they have to rationalize it(which they don’t) they can just say games have been doing that for years, and jerk off to people spending 200 hours on their game because they want to get those last items that are taking them 5 hours apiece.

I do think it's a holdover from the days of game info spreading on playgrounds and such. Imagine being the cool kid who get to tell his friends about finding the Sword of Kings in EarthBound or something.

And yeah, it's not quite the same way these days. But I don't think anyone has ever implemented this while rubbing their hands together and thinking "...and this is the part where the player is encouraged to drop everything and grind for 7 hours to get this drop. Perfect."

If the player decides to play the game in a way that will lessen their enjoyment of it, that's on them.

 

[GuinGuin]

I had very similar thoughts while farming for rare materials in Demon's Souls. I was happy to finally get them, though, just so I could finally move the fuck on. Being a completionist can, at times, really suck.

At least there is a challenge in those fights unlike your typical JRPG.

 

[Knightime_X]

Sorry for poor image but when it comes to rare drops this is the stuff of nightmares.
I won't bother trying unless I have a game genie otherwise forget it.

I got a pink tail legit once but it only took 3 months.

 

[OrionNebula]

I remember vividly trying to get a Crissaegrim in Symphony of the Night (an OP weapon that basically turns 99% enemies in the game like butter left under the sun for a few hours as soon as you hit them) for close to 2hrs.
2 fucking hours of entering library, killing 6-7 enemies, leaving, re-entering, re-killing, re-leaving… that song is good but even I had my limits…

But god damn that blade destroys any challenge the game throws at you

A few weeks later I saw my friend got 2 in less than 10 mins

 

[cartman414]

I remember vividly trying to get a Crissaegrim in Symphony of the Night (an OP weapon that basically turns 99% enemies in the game like butter left under the sun for a few hours as soon as you hit them) for close to 2hrs.
2 fucking hours of entering library, killing 6-7 enemies, leaving, re-entering, re-killing, re-leaving… that song is good but even I had my limits…

But god damn that blade destroys any challenge the game throws at you

A few weeks later I saw my friend got 2 in less than 10 mins

There's that perfect spot for farming them where a Schmoo is right next to the screen refresh. Just pay attention to the drops...

 

[Spukc]

Lol OP go play diablo 3
It’s the hunt

 

[bentanchorbolt]

I’m 38, two kids, a full time job; I don’t have time to grind lmao. This is a bad game design element.

 

[OrionNebula]

There's that perfect spot for farming them where a Schmoo is right next to the screen refresh. Just pay attention to the drops...

Is what I did, too. 2 hours is a long time when you do the same shit that takes 20 seconds over and over

Trust me, anything in gaming that is due to luck instead of skills is like cancer to me. The fucking worst of the worst.

Today still, I try to avoid like the plague games that are luck-centered. I sure as fuck want to play SMT3. I sure as hell ain’t gonna play SMT3, though

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I love rare drops. When that orange light drops in Diablo 3, it's a mini rush.

Problem with these game mechanics is it can be too many. Getting awesome rares in Diablo 1 and 2 were a treat. In Diablo 3, there's so many repetitive orange drops it doesn't make sense. It shouldnt be this common.

 

[Graciaus]

Rare drops aren't that bad but can be annoying. Impossibly rare .1% drops are garbage.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

I remember vividly trying to get a Crissaegrim in Symphony of the Night (an OP weapon that basically turns 99% enemies in the game like butter left under the sun for a few hours as soon as you hit them) for close to 2hrs.
2 fucking hours of entering library, killing 6-7 enemies, leaving, re-entering, re-killing, re-leaving… that song is good but even I had my limits…

But god damn that blade destroys any challenge the game throws at you

A few weeks later I saw my friend got 2 in less than 10 mins

It took me more than 3 hours to get a Pure Bladestone in Demon’s Souls.

My cousin got it second try. And then he got it again in a few tries when he replayed the game.

 

[Dr. Suchong]

I remember vividly trying to get a Crissaegrim in Symphony of the Night (an OP weapon that basically turns 99% enemies in the game like butter left under the sun for a few hours as soon as you hit them) for close to 2hrs.
2 fucking hours of entering library, killing 6-7 enemies, leaving, re-entering, re-killing, re-leaving… that song is good but even I had my limits…

But god damn that blade destroys any challenge the game throws at you

A few weeks later I saw my friend got 2 in less than 10 mins

Came to post this.
Schmoos drop them pretty often, but yeah, that sounds infuriating.
Farming shards in Bloodstained was far more tedious for me personally

 

[Kenpachii]

It's great

 

[PleaseWaitStation4]

I do like the randomness. Keeps you playing. It makes your character unique if you find something nobody else has.

 

[daTRUballin]

I remember the last time Rare dropped a deuce.

It's funny. When I was scrolling down gaming side, I actually thought the title was about Rare the developer.

*reads first two words*

*Gasp* "Rare drops what?! A new game? A new trailer? More info on Everwild? What?!"

*reads the rest of the title*

"..........Oh."

 

[Spidey Fan]

It's funny. When I was scrolling down gaming side, I actually thought the title was about Rare the developer.

*reads first two words*

*Gasp* "Rare drops what?! A new game? A new trailer? More info on Everwild? What?!"

*reads the rest of the title*

"..........Oh."

They are Rare. They dont develop that much games, since their games are very Rare.

 

[hybrid_birth]

It's funny. When I was scrolling down gaming side, I actually thought the title was about Rare the developer.

*reads first two words*

*Gasp* "Rare drops what?! A new game? A new trailer? More info on Everwild? What?!"

*reads the rest of the title*

"..........Oh."

That's pretty funny. I try to keep things barely on topic. I couldn't pass up a joke related to the developer Rare. Even though I knew the thread was talking about rare loot in games.

I try to make people laugh in my posts. People can be so serious and angry on the internet.

Everwild looks amazing. I like the artstyle.

 

[BusierDonkey]

Looks at KOS-MOS in Xenoblade Chronicles 2... oh wait I forgot I never managed to win that lottery.

 

[JSoup]

I've spent the better part of two days trying to get an item in WoW to drop, with a drop rate of exactly 1%, so I can use it to get a cosmetic set I don't even want and will never use.

I love the future.

 

[FritzJ92]

90 percent agree, I don’t mind rare drops when I can increase my drop percentage

 

[daTRUballin]

They are Rare. They dont develop that much games, since their games are very Rare.

That's pretty funny. I try to keep things barely on topic. I couldn't pass up a joke related to the developer Rare. Even though I knew the thread was talking about rare loot in games.

I try to make people laugh in my posts. People can be so serious and angry on the internet.

Everwild looks amazing. I like the artstyle.

Oh absolutely. I'm just glad they're doing things that matter again. Too bad they still seem to get lots of hate on this site (and on Era) these days. Though to be fair, that has been the case for, like, the last 15 years already lol.

 

[MaDBrute]

And its never random, you get same ones you already have.

 

[PleaseWaitStation4]

And its never random, you get same ones you already have.

Which games are you talking about?

 

[MaDBrute]

Which games are you talking about?

Almost all, some items never drop,

 

[DavidGzz]

Family man with a 2 hour gym routine and a 1 hour jogging routine and I want more of this grind. Bring on Diablo 4.

 

[PleaseWaitStation4]

Almost all, some items never drop,

Try the Diablo series, or Path of Exile. The Final Fantasy series the drops are uniform and dull.

 

[nkarafo]

Rare drops make sense in things like World of Warcraft were thousands of players per server have a chance to get them and show off, but certainly not in single player games.

 

[cireza]

The problem here is not the rare weapon drop, it is the fact that the player thinks he absolutely needs that weapon that actually only offers a negligeable upgrade when compared to the one currently owned.

 

[DavidGzz]

The problem here is not the rare weapon drop, it is the fact that the player thinks he absolutely needs that weapon that actually only offers a negligeable upgrade when compared to the one currently owned.

It's kind of like how I grind at the gym for hundreds of hours for a .001 difference by 2025. Feels amazing man. As long as the process is fun, who cares?

 

[Hoya Destroyer]

The harder it is to obtain, the more satisfying it is to get it - as long as the gameplay is fun.
I agree with the guy above me.

 

[Touch fuzZy. get BizZay]

If u must farm a rare item, put on a podcast while you do so. Or something similar that means the game isn't your only sensory input.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Completely disagree. Also, you're not a completionist if you don't feel a rush of satisfaction when the rare item finally drops, regardless of how long it took. Completionists get their kicks completing. It's right there in the name. If grinding for that rare drop sounds like work then maybe you're something else. Like...a normal player? And rare drops aren't for those people. Go get your magic sword at Wallmart.

Now, puzzles? They can go to hell. Unless you've got something original and interesting on your hands (which 99% of puzzles aren't). I can do without having to to align some light beams or push blocks or arrange pieces of a picture or play some over-engineered game of golf or replay a sequence of notes or hold the lockpick at the right angle or whatever. Been there, done that, fuck off.

 

[Soodanim]

If u must farm a rare item, put on a podcast while you do so. Or something similar that means the game isn't your only sensory input.

A good suggestion, but it is very telling that we need to be entertained while we do something that is supposed to be entertainment.

There’s a way to do rare drops, and it’s not by obscurity and forcing you to farm the single enemy/source of an item a hundred times to get the X required to do something. I quit Nier (PS3) trophy hunting for this reason.

Demon’s Souls (PS3) was notorious for it. A skill based game forced you to farm the one single enemy in the entire game, that can only realistically be accessed by manipulating the world tendency. Ridiculously low drop rate for fuck all reward.

A bit more obscure is Final Fantasy XII IZJS/remaster. One particular weapon had an incredibly low drop rate inside an item chest that also has an incredibly low spawn rate and is invisible when it does spawn on a particular method of travel you won’t normally touch more than once outside of side quests.

 

[IntentionalPun]

I like them; if a game has loot it needs a fun gameplay loop and to reward you often enough.

 

[cireza]

As long as the process is fun, who cares?

Well, OP seems to care.

 

[McCheese]

I fucking love rare drops, diablo, world of Warcraft, PSO etc. The idea that a game could just be like "cool let's change things up with this fucking heaven punisher" at any moment keeps things spicy.

They exist to compliment the core gameplay loop, if a game relies on loot as the only encouragement of progression are doing it wrong.

 

[Touch fuzZy. get BizZay]

A good suggestion, but it is very telling that we need to be entertained while we do something that is supposed to be entertainment.

There’s a way to do rare drops, and it’s not by obscurity and forcing you to farm the single enemy/source of an item a hundred times to get the X required to do something. I quit Nier (PS3) trophy hunting for this reason.

Demon’s Souls (PS3) was notorious for it. A skill based game forced you to farm the one single enemy in the entire game, that can only realistically be accessed by manipulating the world tendency. Ridiculously low drop rate for fuck all reward.

A bit more obscure is Final Fantasy XII IZJS/remaster. One particular weapon had an incredibly low drop rate inside an item chest that also has an incredibly low spawn rate and is invisible when it does spawn on a particular method of travel you won’t normally touch more than once outside of side quests.

Haha, I went through that with FFXII as well. The whole crystal maze was absolute garbage, a series of complexly connected identical looking rooms with no map...Square have been designing the supreme late game of FF to be a tedious chore even with a guide since at least FFX. But I liked the game enough that I went through that exhausting nonsense so more fool me I guess. Again, I had podcasts.

Maybe the prevalence of guides are part of the problem. Being able to google anything makes it so players can zip through games crazy fast, and developers get stupider with the rarity of drop rates to counterbalance this and keep players from complaining about how short everything is.

 

[DragoonKain]

The harder it is to obtain, the more satisfying it is to get it - as long as the gameplay is fun.
I agree with the guy above me.

It’s never been fun for me. Doing the same monotonous tedious thing over and over isn’t fun. If it was fun I obviously wouldn’t hate it because I’d be having fun

This isn’t having sex over and over to finally get your wife pregnant.

 

[Soodanim]

Haha, I went through that with FFXII as well. The whole crystal maze was absolute garbage, a series of complexly connected identical looking rooms with no map...Square have been designing the supreme late game of FF to be a tedious chore even with a guide since at least FFX. But I liked the game enough that I went through that exhausting nonsense so more fool me I guess. Again, I had podcasts.

Maybe the prevalence of guides are part of the problem. Being able to google anything makes it so players can zip through games crazy fast, and developers get stupider with the rarity of drop rates to counterbalance this and keep players from complaining about how short everything is.

The worst bit about FFXII’s drops is that even the normal, achievable drops don’t tend to come until there’s nearly nothing left to do in the game. At least in IZJS they added Trial Mode.

You might be onto something there. I wonder how much of an impact guides and the internet have had. And if they have, I wonder how much PS5s having instant guide access might have on design going forward.

 

[synchronicity]

If I like the game/the core gameplay, I enjoy them. I don't mind the repetition if it's a game I'm into. And it's a really nice feeling when that item you are looking for finally pops. Maybe I'm just a masochist though.

I got 3 or 4 pure bladestone in Demon's Souls, and I wasn't even fishing for the platinum at the time. I was just enjoying the moment to moment gameplay and the fun of seeing if they would drop. Then again, Souls is my favorite franchise in gaming, so it's a bit of an exception.