Support NeoGAF

[Bridges]

Some of them were good for the time they released like the Adventure games and Generations, the problem is even the "good" ones age horribly. They clearly never cracked the code of what these games are supposed to be.

Used to be a big fan til a little after playing Lost World. They just have no idea what they're doing over there these days, would love to see a competent developer try their hand at reinventing the series but they seem so reluctant to take it away from the same team (still surprised Mania even happened).

 

[ShirAhava]

I had been a Sonic fan since the early 90s but when I played Adventure I wanted to throw up I thought those games were complete garbage at the time

Its funny when it comes to 2D sonic I'm the biggest fan on earth 3D Sonic should have never happened

Unleashed was the best attempt at that and it gets almost no love I honestly think 3D Sonic fans have really shit taste as long as they keep supporting shit sonic games nothing will change for the series

 

[ReBurn]

I liked Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2. They weren't the best games ever made but they were enjoyable enough. I couldn't tolerate any after Adventure 2, though.

 

[TonyK]

Title would be correct even if you remove the term 3D.

 

[Miles708]

My point was that these sections shouldn't exist in the first place. The whole werehog + beat em up idea was stupid and the only reason it existed was because some producer wanted some new gimmick in the game, regardless if it fits in a Sonic game. We saw that later on with Sonic holding a sword.

Yeah i get you know, you got a point.
But also, consider that they said they needed slower paced sections because doing all the game at top-speed was simply not possible, from a production point of view. It's simply too much content to create (and zip through). They needed an entire dedicated graphics engine just to begin handling this.
It's for the same reason that any 3D sonic game has some kind of "shitty friend" mechanic, to the point of becoming a meme.

I wonder if they could come up with some sort of procedural level creation system.

 

[Starlight Lotice]

I enjoyed Colours for what it was, and I do like Adventures 1 and 2. Generations Modern Sonic was really good but the Classic Sonic was terrible.

Overall 3D Sonic is hit and miss.

 

[SkylineRKR]

SA1 and SA2 were good games at the time. Generations and the Sonic stages in Unleashed were good too. The problem is that the games would be too short if they would only focus on this. But it should be possible to create Sonic stages with more exploring inbetween, it doesn't need friends for that.

 

[Neff]

No. Colours, Generations and Lost World are legit. Unleashed has great stage design which redeems its lesser content. Adventure is buggy and flawed but becomes so much more than the sum of its significant parts by having more pure human soul pumped into it than most games I can think of. The wealth of content, variety and ambition is impressive even now, and the soundtrack is absolutely killer.

 

[Dream-Knife]

I honestly never liked Sonic games in general.

 

[Unk Adams]

Not only are the 3D Sonic games bad but they are even worse when you compare it the competing 3D platformers at the time. Even the "good" ones are only good relative to the other 3D Sonic games but they're not actual good games. At least the Adventure games have beautiful artwork. The 3D Sonic games that came after that have no style at all and look completely generic.

 

[Corgi1985]

Well most video games are bad in general. Sonic really isn't any worse than the other dogshit out there that gets popular

 

[hybrid_birth]

I loved Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 as a kid. The rest of the games I couldn't get into. The intro music I loved.

 

[ShadowDurza]

SEGA has absolutely no idea how to make 3D Sonic anymore. Fortunately, the fans do.

Spark the Electric Jester 2 feels more like a Sonic game than most 3D Sonic Games. And Sonic GT feels more like a 3D Sonic game than StEJ2.

If we all pressure SEGA to be like these, maybe we can finally get an adequate 3D Sonic.

 

[MMaRsu]

OP reached the highest level of despair possible and created this thread as a response to someone, because answering in the original thread was not enough.

3D Sonic games have been pretty awesome since Unleashed, but OP can't get over the fact that the games are not tailored specifically for him.

I wasnt allowed to post in the other thread :/

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

No. I wouldn't use the word bad. Sonic Adventure wasn't as good as 2D Sonic games, but it wasn't bad. I still played, enjoyed and finished the game.

 

[BattleScar]

Um... That's a spinoff and not in the main series?

Sonic and the Black Knight was also a spin-off (Story Book series).

But even if it wasn't. The problem with SatBK wasn't the fact that Sonic was using a sword, it was because it was poorly designed game.


If Nintendo made a game where Mario got a sword, I'm sure it would be well designed and nobody would complain.

The problems have always lied in execution rather than in concept.

Title would be correct even if you remove the term 3D.

Now this is a hot take.

 

[OmegaSpirit32X]

Sadly I wasnt able to post in the Sonic thread anymore, just bc I dont like any of the 3D Sonic games im supposed to be a troll or a hater.


Oh yeah im a troll . A series I dont like? I grew up with Sonic and loved his games. Until they went 3D chasing that Mario64 clout, and fucked it all up.

Then it became anime for kids, with terrible stories, voice acting, bad platforming, boost gameplay (hit A to win), and generally bad level design.

Just because I hate almost all 3D sonic games doesnt mean I hate Sonic.

In fact I love Sonic and thats why Im so angry that SEGA isnt doing him justice, and you people making excuses for SEGA about how the 3D games are good are part of the problem.

In this case Ill make a poll and ask the rest of Neogaf. Are any of the 3D Sonic games any good? I feel they arent and SEGA is throwing away Sonics legacy with these awful 3D bad platforming titles.

Please dont close the topic, I mean it as a serious question and Im NOT trolling.

and i just disagree with you.

a lot of people love 3D Sonic as much as they love 2D Sonic, and it's ironically the people that hated and still hate the 3D games the ones making excuses of why are their bad just because it's not like what they thought the Genesis games were, i think the kids anime tone fits the series perfectly, Sonic was meant to be hip and cool, demographics change, in the early 2000's, Anime, Extreme Sports and Rock were now hip and cool, so they perfectly implemented that to Sonic without it feeling forced because it just fits the series, already stablished tone, afterall Sonic was already heavily anime influenced since the Genesis days, CD's Opening and Super Sonic prove it, SA1 and Unleashed clearly still take place in the same world than the Genesis games, even stuff like SA2 or Shadow the Game fits.

same with the voice acting, i think it fits the character's personalities perfectly, yes, it's cheesy but what did you expect from Anime Dub actors? especially from 4Kids nonetheless.

the stories are genuinly well written too, good morals, good character development, creative concepts (and i don't mean just the gimmicks), if it was an actual anime or if the existing sonic anime, Sonic X was way longer, i woud've watched the hell out of it, just as much as i watched Pokemon.

the only mainline 3D games were the platfroming and boost truly sucked were 06 and Forces and that's because of stuff like physics or glitches, or in Forces case being poorly designed, games like Unleashed, Generations and Colors however required more skill with the reflexes wich is something Sonic had since the Sonic 1 days.

 

[nkarafo]

If Nintendo made a game where Mario got a sword, I'm sure it would be well designed and nobody would complain.

That would be a dumb idea, unless it was a temporary power up. Mario has plenty of random power ups but the main character never changed in the main games. Except that time in Mario Sunshine where they made him carry this water gun. Not many people liked that.

Sonic was meant to be hip and cool, demographics change, in the early 2000's, Anime, Extreme Sports and Rock were now hip and cool, so they perfectly implemented that to Sonic without it feeling forced because it just fits the series, already stablished tone, afterall Sonic was already heavily anime influenced since the Genesis days, CD's Opening and Super Sonic prove it, SA1 and Unleashed clearly still take place in the same world than the Genesis games, even stuff like SA2 or Shadow the Game fits.

same with the voice acting, i think it fits the character's personalities perfectly, yes, it's cheesy but what did you expect from Anime Dub actors? especially from 4Kids nonetheless.

The delivery is bad. You can make Sonic look cool without making him an obnoxious, edgy brat. You know, just like the Genesis games. Or Sonic Mania. Thank the gods Sonic doesn't have a voice actor in Sonic Mania yelling "YEAAHH" every 5 seconds. Because if that's your idea of "cool" then i don't know what to tell you.

 

[Grand Theft Scratchy]

Sadly I wasnt able to post in the Sonic thread anymore, just bc I dont like any of the 3D Sonic games im supposed to be a troll or a hater.

Oh yeah im a troll . A series I dont like? I grew up with Sonic and loved his games. Until they went 3D chasing that Mario64 clout, and fucked it all up.

Then it became anime for kids, with terrible stories, voice acting, bad platforming, boost gameplay (hit A to win), and generally bad level design.

Just because I hate almost all 3D sonic games doesnt mean I hate Sonic.

In fact I love Sonic and thats why Im so angry that SEGA isnt doing him justice, and you people making excuses for SEGA about how the 3D games are good are part of the problem.

In this case Ill make a poll and ask the rest of Neogaf. Are any of the 3D Sonic games any good? I feel they arent and SEGA is throwing away Sonics legacy with these awful 3D bad platforming titles.

Please dont close the topic, I mean it as a serious question and Im NOT trolling.

It's not a problem that you don't like 3D Sonic games, it's that you didn't give them a chance - you didn't play them - before coming to this conclusion that they're all "horrible, horrible" games.

You call others stupid and say they act like fanboys in the other thread but you are just acting like an upset child because SEGA didn't give you your Sonic Mania 2 announcement.

People like you who shit on games and look for others to validate your opinion that isn't even your own are what's really wrong, not the ones who enjoy games.

 

[teezzy]

I enjoyed Sonic with Sword and Sonic the Werewolf quite a bit, thank you very much

 

[cireza]

I wasnt allowed to post in the other thread :/

Even if in OP you try to come as a victim "I was banned because I don't like Sonic", truth is that your posts were super aggressive, so this is not surprising.

You still managed to create your own thread to answer anyway, showing that you don't respect the moderator's decision.

I assume target audience is 8 year olds.

My 7 years old kid loves Sonic, so yeah, kids are definitely part of the audience.

 

[Little Chicken]

Scandal. Lies.

Sonic Unleashed (sans Warehog) shows that you can have a good 3D Sonic game.

 

[Kerotan Frog]

Idk, it may be because I grew up on Sonic, but i adore 3D Sonic. Maybe even more that 2D Sonic. Adventure 1 and 2 are GOAT games to me. I'm really pumped for 2022 Sonic.

 

[KemoSabe]

Sonic adventure 1and 2 was great imo

 

[Syphon Filter]

False narrative. Sonic Adventure is amazing and the second is great.

 

[Bakkus]

If you have played Adventure 1 & 2 recently and still claim they are great games, then I really have to question your taste in gaming.

 

[OmegaSpirit32X]

this one's good, but for some reason people disliked it.

tight controls, good camera, good Leveldesign and 60fps on console

it had bad boss fights I guess, and some of the wisp powers were meh, but other than that it's absolutely the best 3D Sonic

Mario ripoff... ehit's an OK game but not a good Sonic game.

 

[Pagusas]

I actually really liked Sonic Adventures 1 on the dreamcast.

 

[OmegaSpirit32X]

That would be a dumb idea, unless it was a temporary power up. Mario has plenty of random power ups but the main character never changed in the main games. Except that time in Mario Sunshine where they made him carry this water gun. Not many people liked that.



The delivery is bad. You can make Sonic look cool without making him an obnoxious, edgy brat. You know, just like the Genesis games. Or Sonic Mania. Thank the gods Sonic doesn't have a voice actor in Sonic Mania yelling "YEAAHH" every 5 seconds. Because if that's your idea of "cool" then i don't know what to tell you.

and you can make Mario look wholesome without him yelling "BING BING WAHOOO!" every 5 seconds. (and this is coming from someone who likes Charles' Mario atleast during the N64-Gamecube era), Voice acting was a very innovative thing with Nintendo and Sony doing it a lot, stuff like Sonic lacking a voice or remaining 2D would have been seen as "backwards" and "outdated" at the time SA1 came out in an era where games were just starting to get obsessed with becoming more cinematic.

and i doubt any other voice woud have fit, any voice that would have worked with classic sonic, would be very out of place for Modern Sonic, as Sonic was now more of a Shonen protag ala Goku, Naruto or Luffy (although his douchebagness makes him more of a Yusuke or Ichigo) than a Bart Simpson Bugs Bunny esque character, and let me remind you there are TONS of people on their 20's and 30's who like the new Sonic. some of wich even work at SEGA, such as Ian Flynn who works on the comics and is making the new Hyrule Historia-esuqe encyclopedia for the series, wich is directly related to the games.

 

[LRKD]

Sonic Adventure 1/2 are some good shit, they have issues, but if they had ironed them out, they'd be some top notch games. The sonic stages are fun to replay, and adding the different goals in SA2 just adds even more fun to replaying the stages, even if they are a bit more linear then the firsts. They have their issues, but imo, the negatives out weight the positives in these two games. And having issues makes sense with them being the first real attempts at 3D sonic.
The best Sonic 3D sonic games, even if they aren't perfect, building off of the good things, and fixing the bad games would make for a great game. The story was top notch sonic stuff with over the top ridiculous world ending all the time stuff. Sonic story has always been over the top anime bullshit. Sonic literally went Super Saiyan in the second game.

Sonic Heroes was an improvement in a lot of areas, but a downgrade as well. The engine change made it somehow even buggier then before. The movement is less enjoyable as well. It had potential, but I think the negatives out weigh the positives starting here, and continuing in every game after. 3 games in they should've been able to fix the issues 3D sonic was having, but instead they made them worse.

Sonic The Hedgehog had some of the worst game development I've ever seen, and quite obviously suffered from it. I think it stays with all the other 'adventure' games, where it has a decent base, but it was never ironed out into a good game. There is some cool stuff if you can get past it being a inexcusably unfinished game.

Sonic Unleashed is the best boost game, and half the damn game is universally hated. I enjoyed it a little at release. I wouldn't mind seeing a boost game that builds off of this game, but I don't think boost is viable for the series in the long run.

Sonic Colors is mostly a 2d platformer, and all the 2d segments control like ass. I don't even think you can call it's 3d sections 3D. They are incredibly short and usually 3 lane sections where you strafe between the lanes. Basically on rails. The 3D movement is terrible at low speeds. The gameplay is downgraded completely from Unleashed, a terrible game. The start of the Saturday morning cartoon story bulllshit that has been Sonic stories for the last 10 years.

Sonic Generations is pretty much the same as Colors. If you enjoyed one, you'd probably enjoy the other. Just like Colors, it's mostly a 2D game, half the game is 2D retro sonic, that feels worse then the classic games. The other half is modern sonic, which is mostly 2D as well. Calling any of the boost games except unleased 3D is kinda a joke, any of the open areas are over in 5-10 seconds where it then goes back to being a '3D' lane, or more likely a 2D side scroller. They very much are 2D games, with short 3D segments.

I haven't played enough of any of the others to speak for them. Sonic Lost Word, and the Sonic Boom game are at least somewhat interesting for trying something new.

 

[Unknown?]

Sonic Adventure isn't bad because it just aged poorly it was also featured a lot of what felt like filler with a bunch of characters that were basically gimmicks. Does anyone actually enjoy playing as Big the Cat? To make it worse every time the game got ported to another system it became more and more unstable. Every port introduced more glitches, broken textures and arguably worse character models. Not to say the game as a whole is bad just when you want to play a Sonic game with good sense of speed and platforming then you are thrown into a shooting game as a robot it just doesn't work.
Sonic Adventure 2 I believe suffered from a similar issue. Knuckles/Rouge stages were made worse in the game making it a chore to find the emerald pieces. Why did the throw Tails in a mech? Playing as Sonic is still fun you have the speed the platforming but then it switches to Tails and you may have thought "cool, this should be like Sonic but a little slower and he can fly." But no he's in a mech and were back to a shooting game.
Sonic Heroes was like the team left and a new team was in charge of making a Sonic Adventure 3 and couldn't quite figure it out. At least it was a focus on platforming. Switching characters was fine till the game forces it on you. I haven't played this one recently so I can't say much else on it.
I believe 3D sonic games biggest issue is creating a new style then never refining it. All the boost games seem to work fine controls wise while you are boosting forward and only then. But then the perspective switches and suddenly the controls fall apart. Jumping is something that they seems to not get at all. Jumps feel heavy, feels like you don't have any control on how you move while in the air. This is almost the only thing I want fixed in Sonic Colors Ultimate.
Sonic Lost World is a completely different thing. I liked the idea behind it. Instead of focusing on building big worlds to try and make you feel like you are in this large and detailed land they went with the Mario approach with floating platforms and colorful lands. A great idea but again the controls are the problem. moving around feels a bit awkward and jumping is still broken. Why can't they get jumping right. Also there was a wall running mechanic that was pretty spotty if I recall.

So? That was a relic of that era. Back then ALL platformers needed variety or they were considered bad. You see that with Crash in Warped giving you underwater and plane levels that weren't platforming. If Adventure was just Sonic levels, people would have said it was bad.

 

[Isleofsancroy]

While many of the guys saying this won't actually look it up, the first Stage (day) of Sonic Unleashed features great control over speed in a detailed 3D environment which also includes quick reflexes.

Issue is outside a couple other stages, Unleashed doesn't replicate this throughout the rest of the game and instead tries to be more scripted and the night stage as you know are brawlers. But it did show that it can work.

Problem is Sonic stopped trying after Unleashed, they didn't take what they did there and found away to improve the foundation. Instead they made colors, which was mostly 2D and when it wasn't, it was a hallway where you pressed the boost button and occasionally you would drift like a car. Same with Generations. Forces took the colors degradation further by actually making empty hallways, in fact one stage is literally a less than 30 second hallway that was supposed to be a "trap" that Sonic and fan character get out of near instantly. It also has tons of 2D segments making classic sonic pointless just like in generations.

Now Sega is once again trying some weird new open world thing with no experience in the field. I would be surprised if the game was even a C-.

 

[Spukc]

65 agree vs 60 not

fuck 3D sonic

 

[OmegaSpirit32X]

65 agree vs 60 not

fuck 3D sonic

it's a close one.

 

[GodofWhimsy]

I voted yes even if I get enjoyment from all of the 3D stuff before 06. Technically poorly designed, but so oddly intriguing.

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

Yeah, but at least we got "City escape".

 

[ArtemisClydeFrog]

Sadly I wasnt able to post in the Sonic thread anymore, just bc I dont like any of the 3D Sonic games im supposed to be a troll or a hater.


Oh yeah im a troll . A series I dont like? I grew up with Sonic and loved his games. Until they went 3D chasing that Mario64 clout, and fucked it all up.

Then it became anime for kids, with terrible stories, voice acting, bad platforming, boost gameplay (hit A to win), and generally bad level design.

Just because I hate almost all 3D sonic games doesnt mean I hate Sonic.

In fact I love Sonic and thats why Im so angry that SEGA isnt doing him justice, and you people making excuses for SEGA about how the 3D games are good are part of the problem.

In this case Ill make a poll and ask the rest of Neogaf. Are any of the 3D Sonic games any good? I feel they arent and SEGA is throwing away Sonics legacy with these awful 3D bad platforming titles.

Please dont close the topic, I mean it as a serious question and Im NOT trolling.

U alright bro

Your post might be true if Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 didn't exist. But they do. So fuck off mate.

 

[OmegaSpirit32X]

Title would be correct even if you remove the term 3D.

Sonic Bad pls like

 

[ArtemisClydeFrog]

Maybe not bad. Definitely worse, though. Same goes for Zelda, btw.

 

[Spukc]

If it was not for BOTW i would kinda agree..

 

[MvCSpiderman]

You must mean the homing attacks.

Yeah, these are indeed bad.



3D Sonic games are crap compared to Mario, that's official.

2D Genesis/Mega Drive Sonic games though, they do have more fun controls/physics than Mario. And the level design in S3&K is great.



Looks impressive visually but the gameplay is so shallow. Feels like a QTE game with all these prompts and "Press A to win" with homing attacks. The camera does most of the steering for you.

And after that you are forced to play a generic button masher beat em up, because Sega can't help themselves adding stuff they can pass as "new ideas" into 3D Sonic games.

I don't understand the difference of pressing A to dash at an enemy and Mario where you press A to jump at an enemy?

I mean Unleashed has issues but I think you're picking the wrong ones.

They need to give up on the speed thing... it blows. No one likes it. You can’t even comprehend what’s going on. I was a kid when Sonic was huge.... no one played Sonic like a speed run.

Commit to the Mario rip-off path.

Sonic never played like Mario.

I liked Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2. They weren't the best games ever made but they were enjoyable enough. I couldn't tolerate any after Adventure 2, though.

I think Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 get passes for first Sonic full 3D experience and the hyper obsession with the Dreamcast which few wanted back then. It even impacted the reviews for both games but those changed later.

Sonic Adventures first scene battling Chaos in the rain in front of the police is one of the best looking parts of the game. The game otherwise is inconsistent and has poor animations and effects that 1998 ps1 games did better. They are clunky, buggy, and with odd engines for the other playstyles that clearly aren't finished. Sonic Adventure 2 had the same problem along with a rapidly confused camera that will jerk around even in small passages when running as Sonic or knuckles. The tails and eggman stuff have hit detection issues.

Yet these are often the prime examples of good 3D Sonic. At least some of the laters titles were playable and worked consistently in comparison.

.

 

[nkarafo]

I don't understand the difference of pressing A to dash at an enemy and Mario where you press A to jump at an enemy?

Huge difference.

By pressing the homing attack, Sonic just automatically flies to the nearest enemy or whichever the game is targeting for you. You just press one button, nothing else. You don't even have to be very good at timing. You don't even have to be at the "right place". Just press the button and the game will do the rest.

In order to jump on an enemy in Mario, you have to press A to jump but also make sure Mario will actually land on the thing. This isn't an automatic or scripted function, you have to control Mario's speed and direction with the d-pad or analog stick.

 

[OmegaSpirit32X]

Huge difference.

By pressing the homing attack, Sonic just automatically flies to the nearest enemy or whichever the game is targeting for you. You just press one button, nothing else. You don't even have to be very good at timing. You don't even have to be at the "right place". Just press the button and the game will do the rest.

In order to jump on an enemy in Mario, you have to press A to jump but also make sure Mario will actually land on the thing. This isn't an automatic or scripted function, you have to control Mario's speed and direction with the d-pad or analog stick.

i think the homming attack helps for the flow of the game, it's harder to aim at enemies and platforms in 3D than in 2D, and whenever there isn't an enemy arround it just propels you trought the air wich can be fun for speedrunning, thing Sonic was always about.

there's nothing wrong with making games slightly more accessible as long as it still doesn't hold your hand, 3D Sonic still requires some skill, while stuff like the newer Mario games are waaaay too easy.

 

[mcjmetroid]

In general they are bad.

They just never nailed the 3D concept at all. Sometimes they got close but then they moved onto another concept.

I despise the on rails boosting mechanic.

I hope one day they can get it right and expand on it.

 

[MvCSpiderman]

Huge difference.

By pressing the homing attack, Sonic just automatically flies to the nearest enemy or whichever the game is targeting for you. You just press one button, nothing else. You don't even have to be very good at timing. You don't even have to be at the "right place". Just press the button and the game will do the rest.

In order to jump on an enemy in Mario, you have to press A to jump but also make sure Mario will actually land on the thing. This isn't an automatic or scripted function, you have to control Mario's speed and direction with the d-pad or analog stick.

You do realize you do in many instances have to be "in the right place" or you can fly off a cliff. Or get hit by an enemy attack, or do no damage, or just miss the target?

....Now granted for most Sonic games with a homing attack this doesn't apply but for a few it does.

 

[nkarafo]

i think the homming attack helps for the flow of the game, it's harder to aim at enemies and platforms in 3D than in 2D

The abomination that was Sonic 4 is 2D and still has the same buggy physics and gameplay as the 3D ones. Even the homing attacks.

 

[Zannegan]

I remember the Sonic Adventures being fun in multiplayer. Then again, you could have slapped any skin on those characters at all and gotten the same result, (Sonic was even the same speed as everyone else) so I'm not sure if you'd count them as a proper 3D Sonic.

I think the reason Sonic didn't translate to 3D was that he's supposed to be so fast and early 3D consoles couldn't keep up. To make him "work" in 3D, they had to find all kinds of workarounds--corridor levels, that boost-dash thing, 2D/3D, etc.--that gave you a sense of speed but were mostly not a lot of fun.

This gen is the first one that could really do him justice, IMO, but I'm afraid that even if there was a next gen only Sonic, the devs would wall back on those same-old tricks and workarounds to make the same old mediocre Sonic in 4K.

 

[nkarafo]

You do realize you do in many instances have to be "in the right place" or you can fly off a cliff. Or get hit by an enemy attack, or do no damage, or just miss the target?

....Now granted for most Sonic games with a homing attack this doesn't apply but for a few it does.

You asked about the difference between the homing attack and Mario's way of killing enemies. And i gave you the answer.

 

[OmegaSpirit32X]

The abomination that was Sonic 4 is 2D and still has the same buggy physics and gameplay as the 3D ones. Even the homing attacks.

the 3D Games control waaaay better than Sonic 4.
SA1 and 2 felt just like the classic games with the momentum just in 3D and with more options. especially when you got upgrades and slowly get more moves such as the Light Speed Dash or the Burning Sommersault. something the Banjo games also did.

 

[nkarafo]

the 3D Games control waaaay better than Sonic 4.
SA1 feels so satysfing, although it's still not as satysfing as Mario 64.

Eh. I remember how Sonic would sometimes move erratically in Sonic Adventure and how the camera would spaz out. Among other glitches and collision detection bugs. Other times Sonic felt like he doesn't have weight.

It felt pretty janky to me.

But i agree, it wasn't as bad as Sonic 4. That game was literally broken.

stuff like the newer Mario games are waaaay too easy.

Hmmm. Have you tried to 100% any 3D Mario game lately? Like any of them?

Neither is hard to play. It's just that with Mario, you have more (and better) control.