Support NeoGAF

[LiquidRex]

On April 1990 (13th according to imdb ) Snake's Revenge was released, an unofficial sequel to Metal Gear on the NES, Hideo Kojima had no involvement in Snake's Revenge.

 

[Alright]

Yes, but if you decouple your software and services from proprietary hardware, and expose it to the countless millions of devices already out there, your potential target base and profits explode overnight.

What countless millions of devices (not countless then, millions) would they be?

Selling xboxes is really just a primary foothold for them.

Ok

Simple business decision for them, whether or not we like the direction gaming is obviously heading in.

What obvious direction is that? Not great to be part of an industry where even the consumer knows their opinions don't matter.

 

[BigLee74]

What countless millions of devices (not countless then, millions) would they be?


Ok


What obvious direction is that? Not great to be part of an industry where even the consumer knows their opinions don't matter.

Hmmm. Looks suspiciously like you are manoeuvering for an argument. There’s nothing really to discuss if your reply consists of having a pop at the phrase ‘countless millions’.

Im pretty sure you understood everything in my post. It really wasn’t difficult.

Edit: I know better than to post in this thread, dammit!

 

[reksveks]

You can sell more software and services if you sell more hardware

there isn't a clear separation or one-to-one relationship between the two but you can also increase software/services by having it on more hardware platforms (aka apple music and apple tv).

 

[Alright]

Hmmm. Looks suspiciously like you are manoeuvring for an argument. There’s nothing really to discuss if your reply consists of having a pop at the phrase ‘countless millions’.

You say pop, I say poking fun

Im pretty sure you understood everything in my post. It really wasn’t difficult.

It's a line I've seen trotted out a lot. No one can explain the obvious direction though

Edit: I know better than to post in this thread, dammit!

Lighten up

 

[Alright]

there isn't a clear separation or one-to-one relationship between the two

Yeah there is. Every console sold is another potential customer. You can't get 100 million users by selling 500 consoles

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Yes, but if you decouple your software and services from proprietary hardware, and expose it to the countless millions of devices already out there, your potential target base and profits explode overnight.

Selling xboxes is really just a primary foothold for them.

Simple business decision for them, whether or not we like the direction gaming is obviously heading in.

You still need hardware to play games on. Unless you mean streaming?

 

[reksveks]

Yeah there is. Every console sold is another potential customer. You can't get 100 million users by selling 500 consoles

If you are on phones, and consumer care for and like that combination, you literally can. Apple TV hardware numbers is much lower than the service users.

I don't know why we are really having this conversation, Microsoft aren't leaving the console hardware space. They are just reducing it from mandatory to access their services/platform to optional.

 

[Alright]

If you are on phones, and consumer care for and like that combination, you literally can. Apple TV hardware numbers is much lower than the service users.

If you are on phones

If. We aren't.

I don't know why we are really having this conversation, Microsoft aren't leaving the console hardware space.

Who said they were?

They are just reducing it from mandatory to access their services/platform to optional.

What other devices that I can get Xbox services on.

 

[ZywyPL]

Eventually Microsoft will want Game Pass on PS5.

The only way I can see that happening is if

1) Xbox create a special version of Game Pass just for PS5 that is:
- only 1st party XBS / XBO games (x86 games)
- no 3rd party games (or Sony's MLB The Show. lol)
- like $5 a month
2) share some of that money with Sony (like however EA Play works on PS)
3) Xbox publish all their 1st party XBS / XBO games on the PSN Store for individual purchase.

Basically I bet Xbox would have to become the same as EA currently is on PS5. PS users can buy any/all of EA's games, and/or get EA Play. If that happened, they'd be no threat to Sony's 3rd party money, so maybe Sony would let it happen. There'd be new games to play on PS5 that can either be bought or played via service, both of which would increase PSN revenues. It might be the only way for PS5 users to get to play those big Bethesda games. Which could be why Phil only said those games would be exclusive to "where Game Pass exists."

I don't think that's a model MS would want to follow, IMO their long-term goal is to push as many GP Ultimate subscriptions as possible, that one sub=multiple devices model, that's what it's all about, not fragmenting their offer.

 

[reksveks]

If you are on phones

If. We aren't.

You aren't. Maybe the majority of NeoGaf isn't and i think the majority of 'gamers' are. Whether Xbox can convert those users is another question.

What other devices that I can get Xbox services on.

PC and anything with a compatible browser (although the xcloud offering isn't the best at the moment).

 

[Alright]

You aren't. Maybe the majority of NeoGaf isn't and i think the majority of 'gamers' are. Whether Xbox can convert those users is another question.

You believe PC and consoling gaming is the same as mobile gaming?

PC and anything with a compatible browser (although the xcloud offering isn't the best at the moment).

Microsoft don't need to sell xboxs because people with Internet browsers are going to pay £10/month to play console games

While people with xboxs don't need to worry about the future of xbox console gaming because everyone has a browser to play console games on.

Rubbish strategy

 

[reksveks]

You believe PC and consoling gaming is the same as mobile gaming?

For some people, yes it is the same positive experience. For me, octopath traveller via the cloud is the same as octopath traveller on my Switch. In certain games, I do care about the hardware difference. The same way that I care about 4k uhd for some movies instead of others.

Microsoft don't need to sell xboxs because people with Internet browsers are going to pay £10/month to play console games

While people with xboxs don't need to worry about the future of xbox console gaming because everyone has a browser to play console games on.

Why does giving one set of users more options make other people have to worry about the future of xbox console gaming?

 

[DonkeyKong]

You believe PC and consoling gaming is the same as mobile gaming?

Microsoft don't need to sell xboxs because people with Internet browsers are going to pay £10/month to play console games

While people with xboxs don't need to worry about the future of xbox console gaming because everyone has a browser to play console games on.

Rubbish strategy

Its about choices, you can play on mobile or you can play on a console, or a tablet, or PC or TV etc etc it's up to the individual, is it a rubbish strategy? who knows, we will find out in a few year I guess

 

[Alright]

For some people, yes it is the same positive experience. For me, octopath traveller via the cloud is the same as octopath traveller on my Switch. In certain games, I do care about the hardware difference. The same way that I care about 4k uhd for some movies instead of others.

For some people, it isn't.

Why does giving one set of users more options make other people have to worry about the future of xbox console gaming?

Mobile gaming and console/PC gaming are two different things.

Its about choices, you can play on mobile or you can play on a console, or a tablet, or PC or TV etc etc it's up to the individual, is it a rubbish strategy? who knows, we will find out in a few year I guess

You say choices, but I don't see the choice of AAA gaming or exclusives on an Xbox. I see the focus been on non-console gamers, which is strange for a console company.

It is a rubbish strategy. Just like Kinect and TvTvTv was. Bookmark this post, I would gamble £1 million on being correct.

 

[reksveks]

For some people, it isn't.

I know .... i didn't say for some people it isn't.

Mobile gaming and console/PC gaming are two different things.

For certain things yes, for other things no. Fortnite on Android isn't fundamentally different to Fortnite on PC, Her Story and alot of the other games. Loop Hero would be a great game on both type of devices.

You say choices, but I don't see the choice of AAA gaming or exclusives on an Xbox. I see the focus been on non-console gamers, which is strange for a console company.

Xbox isn't a 'console' company aka just focused on being on 1 set of consoles anymore, does AoE4 and the current availability of Flight Sim annoy you? and if so, why? just as a random question.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Insane is a bit exaggerated, IMHO.

yeah i did exaggerate the numbers a bit, but beneath the exaggeration, the facts remain that Xbox has the favorable narrative be it among the press, critics, gaf, era and twitter compared to PlayStation. You'll see more doom and gloom articles against PlayStation and time will tell if PS can endure all that crap thrown at it and continue to deliver greatness which it has been since time immemorial.

 

[Alright]

I know .... i didn't say for some people it isn't.

Weird wording though wannit

For certain things yes, for other things no. Fortnite on Android isn't fundamentally different to Fortnite on PC, Her Story and alot of the other games. Loop Hero would be a great game on both type of devices.

Fortnite on mobile plays same as on a PC?

Time crisis and house of the dead would have been great on Kinect.

Xbox isn't a 'console' company aka just focused on being on 1 set of consoles anymore, does AoE4 and the current availability of Flight Sim annoy you? and if so, why? just as a random question.

Microsoft mustn't have sent that memo to the xbox fanboy. They're still console warring.

Nowt annoys me

 

[Alright]

yeah i did exaggerate the numbers a bit, but beneath the exaggeration, the facts remain that Xbox has the favorable narrative be it among the press, critics, gaf, era and twitter compared to PlayStation. You'll see more doom and gloom articles against PlayStation and time will tell if PS can endure all that crap thrown at it and continue to deliver greatness which it has been since time immemorial.

You know why one is seen as favourable and the other isn't, in face of the facts, right?

PlayStation can survive it. They survived it in 2012/13 when they were in a much worse position now.

 

[kyliethicc]

yeah i did exaggerate the numbers a bit, but beneath the exaggeration, the facts remain that Xbox has the favorable narrative be it among the press, critics, gaf, era and twitter compared to PlayStation. You'll see more doom and gloom articles against PlayStation and time will tell if PS can endure all that crap thrown at it and continue to deliver greatness which it has been since time immemorial.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

You know why one is seen as favourable and the other isn't, in face of the facts, right?

PlayStation can survive it. They survived it in 2012/13 when they were in a much worse position now.

Yup that's what I implied

 

[reksveks]

Fortnite on mobile plays same as on a PC?

'Fundamentally' yes. There will be some different based on user input, refresh rates but fundamentally it's the same game.

I have grown tired of the fact that you are either purposely missing words when you read my comments or doing it accidentally.

Off I go to play some more octopath traveller.

 

[roops67]

Who was talking about a boost clock? I thought that was a featre of the PS5. I thought people were asking to find out what was running in quick resume and better quality streaming and pictures. The big selling point I've saw about the XSX|S was it's stable clocks and guaranteed performance profile.

So lets get this straight... the Xbox has stable clock therefore giving it guaranteed performance which is a sales advantage, therefore insinuating the PS5 has 'unpredictable' performance? Are you seriously that out of touch with reality?!?

 

[PSX]

 

[ethomaz]

You mean this gen the gap between PS5 and XSX would be much lesser than the gap between PS4 and Xbox One. Xbox is doing insane numbers on both hardware and game pass subscriptions.

Bigger.
Series X situation is worst the Xbox One and PS5 is selling better than PS4.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Bigger.
Series X situation is worst the Xbox One and PS5 is selling better than PS4.

It's never a 100 meter race, rather a marathon. Lets see how well both consoles are performing sales wise 24 months from now

 

[DonkeyKong]

You say choices, but I don't see the choice of AAA gaming or exclusives on an Xbox. I see the focus been on non-console gamers, which is strange for a console company.

I don't really see what you are getting at here, there are loads of AAA games on Xbox

 

[ethomaz]

Who was talking about a boost clock? I thought that was a feature of the PS5. I thought people were asking to find out what was running in quick resume and better quality streaming and pictures. The big selling point I've saw about the XSX|S was it's stable clocks and guaranteed performance profile.

At this point you should already realize that FUD about variable clocks are bullshit.

All GPU processors in PC uses variable clocks with no lose or performance... the opposite it gives more room to performance in heavy points.

PS5 already showed it performance is stable and guaranteed.

The fact you need to understand is that Series X could have better performance if MS had choose variable clocks.

 

[akaFullmetal]

It's never a 100 meter race, rather a marathon. Lets see how well both consoles are performing sales wise 24 months from now

Sounds like you two should do a bet?

 

[Alright]

'Fundamentally' yes. There will be some different based on user input, refresh rates but fundamentally it's the same game.

Fundamentally, as in not at all. User input is what makes console/PC gaming. Otherwise we would still have the Atari pad

I have grown tired of the fact that you are either purposely missing words when you read my comments or doing it accidentally.

You built your argument on marketing buzzwords. We can skip them.

Off I go to play some more octopath traveller.

Go? Can't you play it where you are, on mobile?

I don't really see what you are getting at here, there are loads of AAA games on Xbox

So many AAA games on xbox that none of them featured in the Top 20 sold this week in the UK.

 

[Alright]

At this point you should already realize that FUD about variable clocks are bullshit.

All GPU processors in PC uses variable clocks with no lose or performance... the opposite it gives more room to performance in heavy points.

PS5 already showed it performance is stable and guaranteed.

The fact you need to understand is that Series X could have better performance if MS had choose variable clocks.

Let them have their variable clocks. Let people say that the PS5 is a 9tf console and that the XSX is a 14tf console. Because I start to wonder what Microsoft are doing with those extra 5tf

 

[ethomaz]

I don't really see what you are getting at here, there are loads of AAA games on Xbox

Which ones? I don’t remember MS launching a AAA game since Forza Horizon 4 or Gears 5.

Series X|S didn’t receive an AAA from MS yet.

 

[azertydu91]

Sounds like you two should do a bet?

Or find a bed....

Alright I'm out.

 

[Interfectum]

Yes, but if you decouple your software and services from proprietary hardware, and expose it to the countless millions of devices already out there, your potential target base and profits explode overnight.

Selling xboxes is really just a primary foothold for them.

Simple business decision for them, whether or not we like the direction gaming is obviously heading in.

I think the issue I have is there aren't 'countless millions' who are into hardcore console gaming no matter what hardware you put it on. They have already been accounted for with mobile gaming. GamGam in Brazil isn't going to switch from Sudoko to Halo: Infinite simply because she can stream it on her phone now.

I want to see the stats in a few years of who is hardcore into the Xbox ecosystem but doesn't actually own an Xbox or gaming PC.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Mobile is huge because of the abundance of free to play garbage they can try without a second thought

You've already lost them with the sub requirement

 

[Rea]

Series X could have better performance if MS had choose variable clocks.

Not really, variable clocks in fixed hardware platform like consoles are too unpredictable. Consoles are not supposed to have variable clocks, Sony went out of traditional way of fixed clock console with their new paradigm, if MS wants to have variable clock options, they have to either copy Sony or use their own method.

 

[ethomaz]

Not really, variable clocks in fixed hardware platform like consoles are too unpredictable. Consoles are not supposed to have variable clocks, Sony went out of traditional way of fixed clock console with their new paradigm, if MS wants to have variable clock options, they have to either copy Sony or use their own method.

Looks how unpredictable PS5 performance is (most if not all comparisons showed more stable framerate).
C’mon.

It is time to stop the FUD.

 

[xShaun]

Just watch.

If Returnal gets a Metacritic lower than 84 - it will be deemed a failed game and will be dropped with no sequals.

Screenshot this, you know it's true.

 

[reksveks]

Not really, variable clocks in fixed hardware platform like consoles are too unpredictable. Consoles are not supposed to have variable clocks, Sony went out of traditional way of fixed clock console with their new paradigm, if MS wants to have variable clock options, they have to either copy Sony or use their own method.

Like AMD Smartshift? Has anyone explained the technical difference between Sony's variable clock system and AMD's one?

 

[ethomaz]

Like AMD Smartshift? Has anyone explained the technical difference between Sony's variable clock system and AMD's one?

It is the same... just the data used to make the change in clocks are different... Sony choose workload statistics while AMD uses power draw statistics.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Mobile is huge because of the abundance of free to play garbage they can try without a second thought

You've already lost them with the sub requirement

It really all boils down to how serious MS actually takes that "3 billlion gamers" crap... that "we aren't competing with Sony" crap..

It's quite possible GamePass will look like a huge hit to gamers, and actually be a massive flop in the eyes of MS leadership... because their statements hint at the idea that they think it'll scale to 100's of millions of people.

 

[ethomaz]

Just watch.

If Returnal gets a Metacritic lower than 84 - it will be deemed a failed game and will be dropped with no sequals.

Screenshot this, you know it's true.

Depends how much it sells vs the budget.

 

[GrayDock]

I may be out of touch market wise, but I can only see gamepass giving good options to people that are already in the xbox ecosystem.
I can't see mobile gamers only paying for a sub to play in cellphones (or pc centric gamers paying a sub to play in it's machines or it's cellphones), but I can see xbox players (with pcs and/or cellphones) that are already in the ecosystem paying to do that.
Of course some hardcore pc gamers outside the xbox ecosystem will use for its good price/relation, but pc gamers are usually not that into paying subs to play, so I can't see a great market here either.
But, again, I may be out of touch market wise.

 

[Neo Blaster]

XSX is most 4ThePlayers than PS5.

Oh, look, a new Xbox fan Neo account, long time no see!!

 

[ethomaz]

I may be out of touch market wise, but I can only see gamepass giving good options to people that are already in the xbox ecosystem.
I can't see mobile gamers only paying for a sub to play in cellphones (or pc centric gamers paying a sub to play in it's machines or it's cellphones), but I can see xbox players (with pcs and/or cellphones) that are already in the ecosystem paying to do that.
Of course some hardcore pc gamers outside the xbox ecosystem will use for its good price/relation, but pc gamers are usually not that into paying subs to play, so I can't see a great market here either.
But, again, I may be out of touch market wise.

Most success games on mobile are F2P... so gamepass won’t have a good day there.

But it works as an alternative for people that already has Gamepass on PC or Xbox to use it on mobile like you said.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Only fanboys want exclusive titles. Normal gamers dont care about this. If game comes out on multiple platforms, so much the better for players.

You better balance that shilling, it doesn't go well here.

 

[Rea]

Looks how unpredictable PS5 performance is (most if not all comparisons showed more stable framerate).
C’mon.

It is time to stop the FUD.

You misunderstood me, I meant PS5 boost strategy is different from traditional variable clocks which is unpredictable. Sony's solution is predictable and deterministic, it will always perform as it intended. My neighbors PS5 will perform the same as my PS5. LoL.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Hi guys random off topic question, but i just had both my accounts locked on PSN, does someone ever exprienced this?

I take a look online and see some people have exprienced that before, weird.

Now it's working for me after changing my password but that's weird thing, is it a known thing or something? first time i have this in 8 years.

That's why both my accounts are using two-step authentication, better safe than sorry.

 

[DonkeyKong]

Which ones? I don’t remember MS launching a AAA game since Forza Horizon 4 or Gears 5.

Series X|S didn’t receive an AAA from MS yet.

Right, so you meant Series X/S AAA not AAA games on Xbox... gotcha I thought the discussion was about AAA games on Xbox as a whole..

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

It really all boils down to how serious MS actually takes that "3 billlion gamers" crap... that "we aren't competing with Sony" crap..

It's quite possible GamePass will look like a huge hit to gamers, and actually be a massive flop in the eyes of MS leadership... because their statements hint at the idea that they think it'll scale to 100's of millions of people.

Yeah I'm of the view Nadelle doesn't believe in gaming, he just believes in Phil, so I doubt understands the demographic differences between consoles pc and mobile.

If they actually have realistic expections, in that best case scenario they'll have an audience in the tens of millions then fair enough

But if he's completely bought into Phil's sweet talk about having access to billions of gamers then oh boy lol