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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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ethomaz

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Right, so you meant Series X/S AAA not AAA games on Xbox... gotcha I thought the discussion was about AAA games on Xbox as a whole..
IMO I don’t think old games helps to sell a new platform.
MS only focused on BC marketing due their biggest release being in a poor state to the point to need a year+ delay.
They have nothing to marketing except BC and obvious they were not happy doing that but they have no option.
 
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DarkMage619

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So lets get this straight... the Xbox has stable clock therefore giving it guaranteed performance which is a sales advantage, therefore insinuating the PS5 has 'unpredictable' performance? Are you seriously that out of touch with reality?!?
Wow that is quite a leap man. I never said anything negative about PS5 performance. Only that under all circumstances the XSX|S has the same performance profile. The context was 'boost clocks'. Selling point was not about sales but as positive attribute. The PS5 will be fine bro I bought one too relax.
 

IntentionalPun

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Yeah I'm of the view Nadelle doesn't believe in gaming, he just believes in Phil, so I doubt understands the demographic differences between consoles pc and mobile.

If they actually have realistic expections, in that best case scenario they'll have an audience in the tens of millions then fair enough

But if he's completely bought into Phil's sweet talk about having access to billions of gamers then oh boy lol
Yeah exactly; it all boils down to what their targets are, for GamePass, and for their ability to sell xCloud as a service to publishers (and Sony, since that's kind of in their plans.)

I'd like to think these exact convos have been had within their leadership though.. there's no way that these ideas haven't been raised at some level, someone inside of Xbox is not so gung-ho that streaming is going to take over the world, etc.. but I still wonder about what their targets are.. perhaps they are much more conservative, or maybe the expectation is it will take decades to get there, etc. We'll just have to see.

But their CEO has publicly made some pretty wild statements.. and these statements are heard by their board, by investors, etc.. at some point people will expect some real profit numbers being stated out of the division after all this spending. Right now it's treated like a growing startup being funneled cash w/ expectations of scale bringing them huge profit..
 
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Neo Blaster

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Its about choices, you can play on mobile or you can play on a console, or a tablet, or PC or TV etc etc it's up to the individual, is it a rubbish strategy? who knows, we will find out in a few year I guess
Your point considers the userbase for all these platforms to be the same, which are not. Console gamers are different from PC gamers, which in turn are different from mobile gamers. MS is trying to use the same solution to all them hoping it works, but it's a risky bet.
 

Foorbits

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Yeah I'm of the view Nadelle doesn't believe in gaming, he just believes in Phil, so I doubt understands the demographic differences between consoles pc and mobile.

If they actually have realistic expections, in that best case scenario they'll have an audience in the tens of millions then fair enough

But if he's completely bought into Phil's sweet talk about having access to billions of gamers then oh boy lol
That's what I'm wondering too. Nadelle keeps talking about billions of gamers and I keep thinking, those billions aren't going to be into console games. Mobile games have those billions already covered.

My guess is Game Pass subs start to slow down once they get past 50 million or so and you see MS begin to squeeze those subscribers. They could easily go the Disney+ route and start charging people to play the latest AAA game 'early' or wait for it to just be on Game Pass... shit like that.
 

Foorbits

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Your point considers the userbase for all these platforms to be the same, which are not. Console gamers are different from PC gamers, which in turn are different from mobile gamers. MS is trying to use the same solution to all them hoping it works, but it's a risky bet.
The people streaming xcloud on their phone are Xbox users who are playing it for the novelty factor. I highly doubt MS snags any mobile-only gamers with this service.
 
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MHubert

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It really all boils down to how serious MS actually takes that "3 billlion gamers" crap... that "we aren't competing with Sony" crap..

It's quite possible GamePass will look like a huge hit to gamers, and actually be a massive flop in the eyes of MS leadership... because their statements hint at the idea that they think it'll scale to 100's of millions of people.
It really has to be the most mind boggling of statements, like:
"We are so far ahead in the game, that our main competitor isn't the one who absolutely demolishes the market we operate in - no, we compete in a market that doesn't even exist yet."

It seems microsoft is desperate to expand their market, just like with the XOne, where they thought they could create a kind of hybrid machine that could dominate gaming and the living room at the same time. It didn't turn out so well... I'm eager to see, how the same strategy will work this time around - at least it seems like they have become aware, of the importance, of actually having games.
 
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ethomaz

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The people streaming xcloud on their phone are Xbox users who are playing it for the novelty factor. I highly doubt MS snags any mobile-only gamers with this service.
I was one of the best tester on XCloud on iPhone... it has only MCC to play and I synced my Dual Shock 4 to play.

It was fine with a expected input lag and the image quality variable based in how the internet goes (same happens with Netflix and others video streaming).

My biggest issue was that I should not play it on touch controls... I just become acceptable after I synced the DS4.

I posted my impression when the TestFlight was happening last year... I sent my issues to the dev team too.
 
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Neo Blaster

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Most success games on mobile are F2P... so gamepass won’t have a good day there.

But it works as an alternative for people that already has Gamepass on PC or Xbox to use it on mobile like you said.
I have the same opinion about gamepass and mobile userbase, but I think it will thrive on platforms resembling consoles, like smart tvs. I'm eagerly waiting to test xcloud app on my tv.
 
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Dabaus

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Yeah I'm of the view Nadelle doesn't believe in gaming, he just believes in Phil, so I doubt understands the demographic differences between consoles pc and mobile.

If they actually have realistic expections, in that best case scenario they'll have an audience in the tens of millions then fair enough

But if he's completely bought into Phil's sweet talk about having access to billions of gamers then oh boy lol
Tin foil hat theory. Ok, so you guys remember that story a few weeks ago about xbox series s being the best selling console in India for like a week? Series s sold because playstations were completely sold out pretty hollow victory and random right? Isnt MS CEO from India? I mean with all the fake news and smears against playstation lately and infinite number of puff pieces about xbox, is out of the realm of possibility Team Xbox paid to have that article about India written so so Phil could show Nadella how great xbox is doing in his home country?

"Ok, phil, weve invested billions into your little xbox program, whats our marketshare looking like now?"

"Our market share is actually worse than it was before but thats because we started manufacturing a month late. Our engagement is at record highs though"

"I was told your being outsold worse now than you were before."

"Well...look at this! We were the best selling console for one week in India, your home country boss. Isnt that awesome?!"

"Thank you Phil."
 
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That's what I'm wondering too. Nadelle keeps talking about billions of gamers and I keep thinking, those billions aren't going to be into console games. Mobile games have those billions already covered.

My guess is Game Pass subs start to slow down once they get past 50 million or so and you see MS begin to squeeze those subscribers. They could easily go the Disney+ route and start charging people to play the latest AAA game 'early' or wait for it to just be on Game Pass... shit like that.

Yeah I mean naturally i'd assume top brass aren't as simple minded as to just see this big number and think

"Wow, all these easy to access billions ripe for the picking"

But then, I look at Mixer and it makes me believe that's probably what they thought they could do by prostituting Ninja
 
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SlimySnake

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Just watch.

If Returnal gets a Metacritic lower than 84 - it will be deemed a failed game and will be dropped with no sequals.

Screenshot this, you know it's true.
nah, if the sales are great then it will get a sequel no matter what the score.

See GT Sports which got 75 but sold really well.
Ghost is at 83 and guaranteed to get a sequel.

The rest of the sub 84 metacritic games from Sony werent so lucky because they didnt exactly light the charts on fire.
- The Last Guardian - 82 Studio disbanded
- Killzone Shadowfall - 70 - no sequel and GG Cambridge shut down
- DriveClub 70 - Studio shutdown
- Days Gone - 70 - no sequel. Studio still alive
- Death Stranding - 82 - (Rumors only so far) no sequel despite winning way more awards than RE2 let alone Ghost. Studio relationship ended with Sony.
- Detroit - 78 - no sequel or spiritual sequel despite it being their best game. no longer making exclusives for sony.
- Until Dawn - 79 - no sequel. no longer making exclusives for sony.
- The order - 63 - no sequel. no longer making exclusives for sony.

I think Sony is sending Returnal out to die with that $70 price tag, but their internal projections must be looking good because they didnt make it a PS+ game like Destruction All Stars and Oddworld.
 

DonkeyKong

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Your point considers the userbase for all these platforms to be the same, which are not. Console gamers are different from PC gamers, which in turn are different from mobile gamers. MS is trying to use the same solution to all them hoping it works, but it's a risky bet.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong I was just pointing out that seems to be their strategy this gen, they are trying something different, like you say could be risky or could be a success.. who knows
 
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Bernd Lauert

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Mobile gamers don't play mobile games because those games are great, they play them because they're easily accessible at low to no cost. The main reason why they stick to mobile is they don't want to spend 300+ bucks on a console which they can't even use most of the time. Even the Switch doesn't really solve this problem. Now if "real" games were available for no or a very low initial cost on the go, these mobile gamers might indeed become interested in what Gamepass has to offer. The technology isn't there yet tho, this is a long term bet.
 

Mr Moose

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nah, if the sales are great then it will get a sequel no matter what the score.

See GT Sports which got 75 but sold really well.
Ghost is at 83 and guaranteed to get a sequel.

The rest of the sub 84 metacritic games from Sony werent so lucky because they didnt exactly light the charts on fire.
- The Last Guardian - 82 Studio disbanded
- Killzone Shadowfall - 70 - no sequel and GG Cambridge shut down
- DriveClub 70 - Studio shutdown
- Days Gone - 70 - no sequel. Studio still alive
- Death Stranding - 82 - (Rumors only so far) no sequel despite winning way more awards than RE2 let alone Ghost. Studio relationship ended with Sony.
- Detroit - 78 - no sequel or spiritual sequel despite it being their best game. no longer making exclusives for sony.
- Until Dawn - 79 - no sequel. no longer making exclusives for sony.
- The order - 63 - no sequel. no longer making exclusives for sony.

I think Sony is sending Returnal out to die with that $70 price tag, but their internal projections must be looking good because they didnt make it a PS+ game like Destruction All Stars and Oddworld.
Not sure if it counts, but:
 
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roops67

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Wow that is quite a leap man. I never said anything negative about PS5 performance. Only that under all circumstances the XSX|S has the same performance profile. The context was 'boost clocks'. Selling point was not about sales but as positive attribute. The PS5 will be fine bro I bought one too relax.
Your words...
'The big selling point I've saw about the XSX|S was it's stable clocks and guaranteed performance profile'
You are making a comparison to something that does not have these features in your insinuation, not a big leap to guess what you're comparing to. Not gonna crucify you if you wanna speak ill of the PS5 it's your opinion, but this is just straightup fud!
 

Dabaus

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It really has to be the most mind boggling of statements, like:
"We are so far ahead in the game, that our main competitor isn't the one who absolutely demolishes the market we operate in - no, we compete in a market that doesn't even exist yet."

It seems microsoft is desperate to expand their market, just like with the XOne, where they thought they could create a kind of hybrid machine that could dominate gaming and the living room at the same time. It didn't turn out so well... I'm eager to see, how the same strategy will work this time around - at least it seems like they have become aware, of the importance, of actually having games.
This is a genuinely great point. If you listen to xbox centric podcasts this generation is already over and MS is the clear winner thanks to gamepass. Sony and nintendo, despite both seeing record success at the moment, are already old news. This is after Stadia bombed, Luna was still born, and to a lesser extent PS Now really ever took off. Game streaming and rental services have been tried numerous times by multiple companies and every single time it ends the same way. Can Microsoft brute force their way and FORCE it to work using the warchest meme? Maybe? But when your brand new console is going to be look at another 2:1 generation after youve spent billions investing already is that a road investors want to continue going down? Who knows.
 

SlimySnake

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Not sure if it counts, but:
Technically drive club got a vr game too. ;p

Tbh, with how advanced and revolutionary ps vr 2 is going to be, I'd be happy if we get high budget vr sequels to these games.
 
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IntentionalPun

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It really has to be the most mind boggling of statements, like:
"We are so far ahead in the game, that our main competitor isn't the one who absolutely demolishes the market we operate in - no, we compete in a market that doesn't even exist yet."
Eh.. that's a pretty poor bastardization of what Spencer said lol

He's just referencing cloud gaming.. as a cloud gaming "host", MS isn't competing with Sony or Nintendo, they are competing with Amazon and Google. That's really all that means; hence their announced partnership with Sony. If they are hosting Sony's cloud services, they become a Sony partner.. not just a competitor.

It also means they think that market will be bigger than any one console manufacturer could reach. It all becomes pointless if cloud gaming doesn't get huge. Sony after wasting loads of cash on Gaikai is taking it easy on the whole thing because they can. If cloud gaming gets huge, Sony's service offering will be huge.. because they are Sony, the most popular gaming brand in the world.
 
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DonkeyKong

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The fact you need to understand is that Series X could have better performance if MS had choose variable clocks.
I wonder why MS seemed very keen to stress several times during their hardware reveal that their CPU/GPU frequencies were completely locked frequencies and won't adjust according to load or thermal conditions when variable clocks are a better solution. I bet Andrew Goossen is feeling a bit embarrassed now.
 
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onesvenus

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The fact you need to understand is that Series X could have better performance if MS had choose variable clocks.
Performance as computing performance? Because that's not true in absolute terms. If you have a processor with non variable clocks that maximizes it's frequency on a given power envelope, you can't have better performance with variable clocks because frequency cannot go higher, only lower.
If you set your maximum frequency lower than what your power envelope supports, having variable frequencies mean you'll be able to go momentarily higher but that does not mean it's more performant (in the computing sense) than fixing the base frequency higher.
It depends on the needs. Saying that one is better than the other is just fanboy rethoric.

Series X|S didn’t receive an AAA from MS yet.
He was talking about Series X|S not having AAA, not specifically Microsoft published AAA games. But I'm sure you already know that and you are just trolling, as always
 

IntentionalPun

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Performance as computing performance? Because that's not true in absolute terms. If you have a processor with non variable clocks that maximizes it's frequency on a given power envelope, you can't have better performance with variable clocks because frequency cannot go higher, only lower.
That is not how processor frequencies work.

Fixed frequency consoles take a best guess at a frequency that across all workloads won't ever go outside the power envelope or thermals. That's it; there is no "maximum frequency within a power envelope" because that ignores workloads.

Power used = workload * frequency

(over simplified on purpose)

Honestly we'd need developers to tell us their experiences with PS5's unique way of doing variable frequencies to know which is better, but the PS5 is giving higher frequencies to some workloads than it could if it was fixed, that's just a fact.
 
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onesvenus

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That is not how processor frequencies work.

Fixed frequency consoles take a best guess at a frequency that across all workloads won't ever go outside the power envelope or thermals. That's it; there is no "maximum frequency within a power envelope" because that ignores workloads.

Power used = workload * frequency

(over simplified on purpose)
When processors are created you use a workload range and compute the maximum and minimum power envelopes that would support that for a given frequency. It's obvious you don't choose one or the other without taking everything into account, I thought I didn't need to tell that.
I was obviously refering to the maximum frequency of that range
 

onesvenus

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I love how most posters here have so much knowledge on computer science. I was obviously wrong and don't know anything on the subject 😂😂😂
 
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ethomaz

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That is not how processor frequencies work.

Fixed frequency consoles take a best guess at a frequency that across all workloads won't ever go outside the power envelope or thermals. That's it; there is no "maximum frequency within a power envelope" because that ignores workloads.

Power used = workload * frequency

(over simplified on purpose)

Honestly we'd need developers to tell us their experiences with PS5's unique way of doing variable frequencies to know which is better, but the PS5 is giving higher frequencies to some workloads than it could if it was fixed, that's just a fact.
People need to understand when you fix a clock you are just used the very mininum base of what the chip can work in all scenarios... so it won't ever go below that.

Let's take Series X APU as example.

1850Mhz in fixed clock.
Up to 2000Mhz in variable clock.

That means in most scenarios the GPU will run at 2000Mhz (+8%) while when it reach a typical stress point for a few ms it will go down to 1850Mhz that was the base of the fixed clock.

AMD, Intel, nVidia started to use variable clocks because there are beneficies in doing so... you get more performance from the same chip... CPUs increase the clocks whatever cores are not being used (only when all cores are being used it works at the base clock... with only one core in works it reach crazy increases in clock).... GPUs barely touch the base clock it works 99% of time over the boost clock on nVidia and now the same is happening with AMD RDNA2 (that makes now the game clock a useless metric.... it was used in previous RDNA chips that can't reach the boost clock most of the time).

I love how most posters here have so much knowledge on computer science. I was obviously wrong and don't know anything on the subject 😂😂😂
You are totally right now.

Trying to create a bad narrative with variable clock is basically go against all Intel, AMD, nVidia, ARM, Apple, etc processor engineers of over a decade.
 
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I love how most posters here have so much knowledge on computer science. I was obviously wrong and don't know anything on the subject 😂😂😂

Sheesh you don't need to put your self down so much

 

IntentionalPun

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When processors are created you use a workload range and compute the maximum and minimum power envelopes that would support that for a given frequency. It's obvious you don't choose one or the other without taking everything into account, I thought I didn't need to tell that.
I was obviously refering to the maximum frequency of that range

There is absolutely no "maximum" frequency though.. there is no scenario where you could "only go lower".. you just aren't making any sense. Fixed frequency systems always leave some performance on the table for some workloads, as they are setup to ensure that no given workload will cause the system to go out of it's power/thermal capabilities. Which means there are workloads on that system that could utilize a higher frequency, and still be within the power thresholds... AKA they could go "higher" for some workloads, there is no concept like you stated where "frequency cannot go higher, only lower."

It's not that big of a deal to be wrong; you can drop the arrogant twat routine and not look like such an idiot. None of this requires advanced "computer science" knowledge.
 
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KingT731

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That's what I'm wondering too. Nadelle keeps talking about billions of gamers and I keep thinking, those billions aren't going to be into console games. Mobile games have those billions already covered.

My guess is Game Pass subs start to slow down once they get past 50 million or so and you see MS begin to squeeze those subscribers. They could easily go the Disney+ route and start charging people to play the latest AAA game 'early' or wait for it to just be on Game Pass... shit like that.
If we knew the actual number of XBL Gold subs it would be much easier to see the trajectory. I'm pretty sure a large portion of the current GP subs are converted Gold accounts. I'm guessing the Gold Subs are likely in the 20-25M range.
 
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ethomaz

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nVidia Boost Clock 1.0 (2012).

"Dynamic Clocking
Starting with our GTX 600 series and later, every application and game runs at a guaranteed, minimum Base Clock speed. If there’s extra power available, a Boost Clock is enabled increasing clock speeds until the graphics card hits its predetermined Power Target. This dynamic clock speed adjustment is controlled by GPU Boost, which monitors a raft of data and makes real-time changes to speeds and voltages several times per second, maximizing performance in each and every application."

Remember nVidia is already in Boost Clock version 3.0.
 
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Setsuna Mudou

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That's what I'm wondering too. Nadelle keeps talking about billions of gamers and I keep thinking, those billions aren't going to be into console games. Mobile games have those billions already covered.

My guess is Game Pass subs start to slow down once they get past 50 million or so and you see MS begin to squeeze those subscribers. They could easily go the Disney+ route and start charging people to play the latest AAA game 'early' or wait for it to just be on Game Pass... shit like that.
did you just say get past 50M subs?
Did I just enter the twilight zone? They can barely sell 50M consoles in 1 gen and we're talking 50M subs for this service at full price? :messenger_grinning_squinting: :messenger_ok:
 

SlimySnake

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I wonder why MS seemed very keen to stress several times during their hardware reveal that their CPU/GPU frequencies were completely locked frequencies and won't adjust according to load or thermal conditions when variable clocks are a better solution. I bet Andrew Goossen is feeling a bit embarrassed now.
Xbox has 44% more CUs and roughly 20-25% more silicon. They cant just go with variable clocks without upgrading their cooling solution as well which is likely operating at peak capacity as it is.

Sony is using a heatsink 3x bigger than the one they used in the ps4 and ps4 pro. They are using liquid metal which is more expensive than regular thermal paste. Their power consumption is the same as the xbox series x's which has 44% more CUs and 18% more tflops. Both Spiderman Miles and Gears 5 topped out at around 200-205W. If MS wanted to hit 2.23 ghz and 14.8 tflops then they would have to upgrade their cooling solution to account for the 20% extra power that wouldve been generated. Probably more since higher clocks disproportionately increases power consumption.

From what I've been reading it feels like Sony is getting this extra horsepower for free. Nah, their cooling solution is ingenious which is why they are able to hit such high clocks in a console at just $399.

I think MS did the best they could for a 52 CU GPU.
 
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Thirty7ven

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Yeah exactly; it all boils down to what their targets are, for GamePass, and for their ability to sell xCloud as a service to publishers (and Sony, since that's kind of in their plans.)

I'd like to think these exact convos have been had within their leadership though.. there's no way that these ideas haven't been raised at some level, someone inside of Xbox is not so gung-ho that streaming is going to take over the world, etc.. but I still wonder about what their targets are.. perhaps they are much more conservative, or maybe the expectation is it will take decades to get there, etc. We'll just have to see.

But their CEO has publicly made some pretty wild statements.. and these statements are heard by their board, by investors, etc.. at some point people will expect some real profit numbers being stated out of the division after all this spending. Right now it's treated like a growing startup being funneled cash w/ expectations of scale bringing them huge profit..

Nadella said games are the future of software which leads me to believe Phil completely sold him on the possibility that he can capture the blue ocean by way of subscription. Mobile is 100% one of the main drivers of that notion.

From what I've been reading it feels like Sony is getting this extra horsepower for free. Nah, their cooling solution is ingenious which is why they are able to hit such high clocks in a console at just $399.

I think MS did the best they could for a 52 CU GPU.

They engineered a cooling solution that allows them to hit higher performance for less cost. Sony is an hardware company, but apparently that has been lost amidst the whole “money bags” talk.
 
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OmegaSupreme

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I'm not sure the appropriate thread for this and I don't think I want to start a new thread just for it but what's up with controllers being either super expensive or out of stock? I'm trying to get a pulse red Xbox controller and the damn thing is either out of stock or way above MSRP. Tried shock blue. Same thing.
 
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ethomaz

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Seems like he read a GAF thread and posted a rumor lol


The ideia is pretty good and it is already the 14th try for a Store from MS.
 
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Foorbits

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Mobile gamers don't play mobile games because those games are great, they play them because they're easily accessible at low to no cost. The main reason why they stick to mobile is they don't want to spend 300+ bucks on a console which they can't even use most of the time. Even the Switch doesn't really solve this problem. Now if "real" games were available for no or a very low initial cost on the go, these mobile gamers might indeed become interested in what Gamepass has to offer. The technology isn't there yet tho, this is a long term bet.
It's not really that simple. Mobile games are made specifically for touch screen and for quick in and out play. Most mobile games you don't even need sound to play them. Merging two completely different types of gaming and gamers together isn't going to be as simple as tossing xcloud on a phone with some touch controls. Console games will have to be changed and adapted to work on mobile which some console gamers here may not like.
 

Foorbits

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did you just say get past 50M subs?
Did I just enter the twilight zone? They can barely sell 50M consoles in 1 gen and we're talking 50M subs for this service at full price? :messenger_grinning_squinting: :messenger_ok:
I'm being generous, my main point is Game Pass subs will stall at some point and that's when we'll see what MS has in mind for squeezing their current subscribers. 50 was just a number I threw out. It could be 25 or 30 who knows.
 

onesvenus

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There is absolutely no "maximum" frequency though.. there is no scenario where you could "only go lower".. you just aren't making any sense. Fixed frequency systems always leave some performance on the table for some workloads, as they are setup to ensure that no given workload will cause the system to go out of it's power/thermal capabilities. Which means there are workloads on that system that could utilize a higher frequency, and still be within the power thresholds... AKA they could go "higher" for some workloads, there is no concept like you stated where "frequency cannot go higher, only lower."
But that's not true. I've been involved in designing processors in fact and you compute a maximum frequency by using an expected maximum workload. It's an estimated measure, that's true, and you don't set the frequency to satisfy that power envelop, you always leave room to breath, but you can really be confident on it being a maximum frequency. So, hypothetically speaking, if you could guarantee that frequency could be maintained without problems (heat dissipation degradation for example) having the processor working at that fixed frequency would be more performant (computationally speaking) than having a variable frequency. That's what I was saying, theoretically it's not always true that a variable frequency processor is more performant than a fixed frequency processor.
It's not that big of a deal to be wrong; you can drop the arrogant twat routine and not look like such an idiot. None of this requires advanced "computer science" knowledge.
It's obvious it doesn't require "advanced computer science", you talking about this is a good example of that. Having said that, I'll now stop being an "arrogant twat"
 
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Dabaus

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That's what I'm wondering too. Nadelle keeps talking about billions of gamers and I keep thinking, those billions aren't going to be into console games. Mobile games have those billions already covered.

My guess is Game Pass subs start to slow down once they get past 50 million or so and you see MS begin to squeeze those subscribers. They could easily go the Disney+ route and start charging people to play the latest AAA game 'early' or wait for it to just be on Game Pass... shit like that.
Id be really curious to see the actual xbox vs PC gamepass subs numbers. I wouldnt be surprised if the majority of subs were on PC. Xbox console only has a finite number of potential subscribers, if theyre going to get to these 50 million plus numbers theyre going to have to go hard after PC users. I think the Series S was supposed to be their ace in the hole for expanding market share but at the current moment it seems like an undesirable product. Its going to be an even harder sell once the ps5 digital has a price cut and if there really is a switch 4K. I wonder if the smart play for ms wouldve been just make the series x 399 and never have had a series s?
 
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onesvenus

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Trying to create a bad narrative with variable clock is basically go against all Intel, AMD, nVidia, ARM, Apple, etc processor engineers of over a decade.
They are doing that for entirely different reasons than "variable frequency processors being more performant than fixed frequency processors" though.
Acting like they are not taking into account chip lifetime, battery consumption or power draw is just not being sincere, but whatever. I made my point and you've made yours.
 
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OverHeat

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Id be really curious to see the actual xbox vs PC gamepass subs numbers. I wouldnt be surprised if the majority of subs were on PC. Xbox console only has a finite number of potential subscribers, if theyre going to get to these 50 million plus numbers theyre going to have to go hard after PC users. I think the Series S was supposed to be their ace in the hole for expanding market share but at the current moment it seems like an undesirable product. Its going to be an ever harder sell once the ps5 digital has a price cut and if there really is a switch 4K. I wonder if the smart play for ms wouldve been just make the series x 399 and never have had a series s?
Problem is gamepass on pc is trash...not because of the selection but actual implementation.
 
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Setsuna Mudou

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Tin foil hat theory. Ok, so you guys remember that story a few weeks ago about xbox series s being the best selling console in India for like a week? Series s sold because playstations were completely sold out pretty hollow victory and random right? Isnt MS CEO from India? I mean with all the fake news and smears against playstation lately and infinite number of puff pieces about xbox, is out of the realm of possibility Team Xbox paid to have that article about India written so so Phil could show Nadella how great xbox is doing in his home country?

"Ok, phil, weve invested billions into your little xbox program, whats our marketshare looking like now?"

"Our market share is actually worse than it was before but thats because we started manufacturing a month late. Our engagement is at record highs though"

"I was told your being outsold worse now than you were before."

"Well...look at this! We were the best selling console for one week in India, your home country boss. Isnt that awesome?!"

"Thank you Phil."
Nah, never underestimate a good old slow news day

 

Foorbits

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Id be really curious to see the actual xbox vs PC gamepass subs numbers. I wouldnt be surprised if the majority of subs were on PC. Xbox console only has a finite number of potential subscribers, if theyre going to get to these 50 million plus numbers theyre going to have to go hard after PC users. I think the Series S was supposed to be their ace in the hole for expanding market share but at the current moment it seems like an undesirable product. Its going to be an even harder sell once the ps5 digital has a price cut and if there really is a switch 4K. I wonder if the smart play for ms wouldve been just make the series x 399 and never have had a series s?
There is no doubt in my mind MS is looking to use Steam to bloat their Game Pass numbers. Steam gamers will literally purchasing anything as long as it's on that platform. If they find a way to make Game Pass a purchasable product on Steam they definitely can run with those and hide it within all Xbox Game Pass subs.
 
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ethomaz

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They are doing that for entirely different reasons than "variable frequency processors being more performant than fixed frequency processors" though.
Acting like they are not taking into account chip lifetime, battery consumption or power draw is just not being sincere, but whatever. I made my point and you've made yours.
nVidia reason...

“maximizing performance in each and every application”

The boost clocks were created to get more performance from the chip.
 
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Dabaus

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There is no doubt in my mind MS is looking to use Steam to bloat their Game Pass numbers. Steam gamers will literally purchasing anything as long as it's on that platform. If they find a way to make Game Pass a purchasable product on Steam they definitely can run with those and hide it within all Xbox Game Pass subs.
Surely valve would get a pretty substantial cut right? Then your paying third parties to put your game on gamepass. That sounds like a pennies on the dollar, razor thin, by the skin of your teeth profit margin. It will no doubt boost subs and maybe thats literally the only number microsoft cares about?
 

Foorbits

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Surely valve would get a pretty substantial cut right? Then your paying third parties to put your game on gamepass. That sounds like a pennies on the dollar, razor thin, by the skin of your teeth profit margin. It will no doubt boost subs and maybe thats literally the only number microsoft cares about?
While they are in user acquisition mode that is the only number that matters. Once they get a baseline then they'll start squeezing their Xbox fans. That could be years away though.
 

DarkMage619

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Your words...
'The big selling point I've saw about the XSX|S was it's stable clocks and guaranteed performance profile'
You are making a comparison to something that does not have these features in your insinuation, not a big leap to guess what you're comparing to. Not gonna crucify you if you wanna speak ill of the PS5 it's your opinion, but this is just straightup fud!
You guys and FUD this and FUD that. It's always pretty selective too. XSX smoking? "LOL it's red ring of death all over again!!" PS5 NVME bay not active? "Stop posting all this FUD!!" I was only commenting on consistent performance attribute associated with the Xbox platform. I have no interest is speaking ill of any platform I actually own and play.
 
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