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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Eh, i dont buy that. They said the same thing about doing the TLOU remaster and how it helped them learn the PS4. As if the last of us remaster had any of the new features that ended up in Uncharted and The Last of Us part 2. It definitely helps the engineers get familiar with it, but i didnt see any motion matching tech in the last of us remaster. The fantastic lighting engine and foliage from Uncharted 4 wasnt in the last of us remaster either. It was mostly just backend stuff to get it up and running on the PS5 SDK which according to Cerny is like a month's worth of work.

Their next gen engine is going to have features most of us cant even comprehend. They are a first party studio with an ICE Team thats only purpose is to create tech and build out engines. They helped with the PS4 design and no doubt did the same for PS5. They shouldve had their engines built out already. Devkits went out in 2019 after the first wired article in April. If there is one studio that should be ready for next gen before it even comes out, it's Naughty Dog.
So you don't buy what they said about the last remaster they did.. and instead are just inventing a bunch of BS about them whipping engines out of their asses? lol

TLOU2 hasn't even been out a year.. what exactly do you think their devs were doing in 2019 to where they could jump on creating their next-gen engine full force?
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Another little tidbit. Days gone was profitable but their sales projections for Days Gone 2 weren't high enough to give it the greenlight.

Jason brings up how Dead Space 1, 2 and 3 were all profitable but the sales never grew like they wanted from their AAA franchise. Another guy brought up Tomb Raider how it ended up below their sales expectations because when these guys greenlight these games, they arent just aiming to break even or make a tiny profit, they want a large profit.

I personally thought Sony first party studios didn't have to have those worries since their main job as exclusives is to sell consoles, but I guess Sony is starting to run this thing as a third party publisher.
 

twilo99

Member
This game was already hold back by last gen consoles. Of course it is not hard to put a game from 1.xx TF consoles on 4 TF console.

I never understood how the series s would hold back games.. can't they just use 1080p instead of 4k to compensate for the GPU? The rest of the system is as "next gen" as the series x ? i might be missing something.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
So you don't buy what they said about the last remaster they did.. and instead are just inventing a bunch of BS about them whipping engines out of their asses? lol

TLOU2 hasn't even been out a year.. what exactly do you think their devs were doing in 2019 to where they could jump on creating their next-gen engine full force?
I dont buy it because they used to jump on new games right away. U1 to U2 was two years. U2 to U3 was 2 years. Then the entire production team from U3 literally moved to TLOU and shipped that in less than a year and a half. They didnt sit around for a year or two, they jumped on new games right away. I am guessing you have no idea what the ICE Team does but they are THE tech guys who work out of the Naughty Dog studio. Their job is to create engines and help Cerny with new consoles. I refuse to believe that they had devkits since 2019 and didnt have an engine ready for the creative team to jump right in.

This isnt new. This is how game development used to work, and all of a sudden studios cant decide what their next game is so they have to ship devs to do support work for other studios and make remakes. Last gen ones at that. Imagine being a top tier dev and being forced to work on a game you designed 7 years ago because your boss couldn't find you a next gen project to work on. It's deflating.

EDIT: I forgot about The Lost Legacy which was shipped in just a little over 12 months. They knew that there was going to be some down time before they could start TLOU2 since Neil was pulled into uncharted 4, so they had the entire team make a spinoff which turned out to be fucking awesome. I'd rather have them do a spinoff story for Joel than a remake.
 
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icy121

Member
I personally thought Sony first party studios didn't have to have those worries since their main job as exclusives is to sell consoles, but I guess Sony is starting to run this thing as a third party publisher.
I definitely see where you coming from on this, but Days Gone isn't a system mover by any metric.

For the sake of argument lets say the game sold 7 million copies. How many people, of that 7 million bought a PS4 because of Days Gone? I'd be shocked if the number was >1%.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I never understood how the series s would hold back games.. can't they just use 1080p instead of 4k to compensate for the GPU? The rest of the system is as "next gen" as the series x ? i might be missing something.
But most games arent even running at 4k on the series x. All these so-called native 4k games use dynamic res that drops to 1440p in busy areas. What happens then? 800p-900?

I mean we do know that's what happens because Watch Dogs Legion which drops to 1440p on the xsx in the ray tracing mode drops down to 900p if not lower on the series s. And thats a cross gen game.

When next gen games roll around and target 1440p 30 fps, the xsx is going to struggle big time. Expect games to hit 720p. and thats the best case scenario.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I definitely see where you coming from on this, but Days Gone isn't a system mover by any metric.

For the sake of argument lets say the game sold 7 million copies. How many people, of that 7 million bought a PS4 because of Days Gone? I'd be shocked if the number was >1%.
Cant look it at like that. It's like what Shawn Layden said, thats not the point. The point is to create a portfolio with a wide variety of different games that are risky and different because lets face it, first parties can take risks other studios cant.

That said, I am not criticizing Sony for cancelling Days Gone 2. At least that's not what I meant by my post. If anything, this helps me understand why they went in a different direction, and it's not as sinister as turning them into a support studio or cancelling it because of pressure from the woke media critics.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I dont buy it because they used to jump on new games right away. U1 to U2 was two years. U2 to U3 was 2 years. Then the entire production team from U3 literally moved to TLOU and shipped that in less than a year and a half. They didnt sit around for a year or two, they jumped on new games right away. I am guessing you have no idea what the ICE Team does but they are THE tech guys who work out of the Naughty Dog studio. Their job is to create engines and help Cerny with new consoles. I refuse to believe that they had devkits since 2019 and didnt have an engine ready for the creative team to jump right in.

This isnt new. This is how game development used to work, and all of a sudden studios cant decide what their next game is so they have to ship devs to do support work for other studios and make remakes. Last gen ones at that. Imagine being a top tier dev and being forced to work on a game you designed 7 years ago because your boss couldn't find you a next gen project to work on. It's deflating.
I know who the ICE Team are... we've all read the same articles lol

I don't know why you are quoting how long it took between games a decade ago (and games for the same platform even.. oddly enough)... you claimed that things missing from TLOU remaster from UC4 made the idea that the remaster helped them move to the new console BS, yet.. UC4 came out 2 years after TLOU remaster... so they had 2 years to add to their engine.

Games, engines, etc.. are all taking a lot longer to build these days due to increased complexity. The move from last gen's ancient laptop hard drives and tablet CPUs to this gen isn't going to be as simple as whipping out a fully next-gen engine in a few months.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
All that said, we are in April and still I can't find a ps5. And that son of a
Microsoft
of Leadbetter has two because he was worried to haven't enough space for his libraries. :pie_bull::pie_pensive: This fucking world
Dont feel too bad, Pretty sure Sony sent him his first one a few weeks before it launched. John got one too. NX gamer was surprised to get one too. Alex didnt get one lmao.

I wouldnt be surprised if he used his connections to get a second. I dont see someone as busy as Rich following twitter accounts and slumming in discord groups all day to secure a PS5.
 

assurdum

Banned
Dont feel too bad, Pretty sure Sony sent him his first one a few weeks before it launched. John got one too. NX gamer was surprised to get one too. Alex didnt get one lmao.

I wouldnt be surprised if he used his connections to get a second. I dont see someone as busy as Rich following twitter accounts and slumming in discord groups all day to secure a PS5.
Well yeah sure. Of course Rich doesn't waste his time to find a ps5. That's why I feel more frustrated.
 

kyliethicc

Member
Eh, i dont buy that. They said the same thing about doing the TLOU remaster and how it helped them learn the PS4. As if the last of us remaster had any of the new features that ended up in Uncharted and The Last of Us part 2. It definitely helps the engineers get familiar with it, but i didnt see any motion matching tech in the last of us remaster. The fantastic lighting engine and foliage from Uncharted 4 wasnt in the last of us remaster either. It was mostly just backend stuff to get it up and running on the PS5 SDK which according to Cerny is like a month's worth of work.

Their next gen engine is going to have features most of us cant even comprehend. They are a first party studio with an ICE Team thats only purpose is to create tech and build out engines. They helped with the PS4 design and no doubt did the same for PS5. They shouldve had their engines built out already. Devkits went out in 2019 after the first wired article in April. If there is one studio that should be ready for next gen before it even comes out, it's Naughty Dog.
2013 - ND engine was custom built around PS3 Cell
2014 - ND engine is ported to PS4 X86 for TLOU remaster
2016+ all ND games are on PS4/PS5 X86

If you can't grasp that the TLOU port helped them go onto make UC4 than thats your issue. The actuals developers said it helped. You're wrong.

Its not about putting fucking motion matching into a 2014 port.
Its about experimenting with the new hardware, whether its just code or new tech or new design ideas.

Same as how Miles Morales & Spidey remastered were easy ways for Insomniac to test out what they can do with Spider-Man 2 on PS5. They got to test out ray tracing, PS5 I/O, etc.

For example, if Naughty Dog want to experiment with ray traced shadows or maybe ray trace the player's flashlight for The Last of Us Part 3, they can try out those ideas first when remaking Part 1 and/or updating Part 2 for PS5.

Look at Uncharted Lost Legacy. They experimented with silenced pistols and a large open world level the player can explore with a companion in/out of a vehicle. Then in TLOU2, they have silenced pistols and a very similar large open level to explore with a companion on/off horseback. That was obviously useful experience for their designers and programmers back in 2017 that they could use for their 2020 game.

None of this is very hard to understand.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I know who the ICE Team are... we've all read the same articles lol

I don't know why you are quoting how long it took between games a decade ago... you claimed that things missing from TLOU remaster from UC4 made the idea that the remaster helped them move to the new console BS, yet.. UC4 came out 2 years after TLOU remaster.

Games, engines, etc.. are all taking a lot longer to build these days due to increased complexity.
I think I am not getting my point across. I am leveling the blame at the shoulders of the Studio heads. The money guys. The CEO and the VPs who make the decisions. I know everything takes longer nowadays but my point is that they shouldve known that too. These teams need to be bigger. Pre-production teams need to be bigger and more efficient. It's not the devs fault, it's the suits who dont seem to be on top of their game.

IIRC, Neil and Bruce were told to go come up with a new game after U2 because Sony didnt want to lose them. They were eventually given a small team of designers and engineers who worked on pre-production while the main team worked on Uncharted 3 for the next two years. After shipping U3, those guys move to TLOU which was ready for full production and they were able to get the game out in a year and a half. I dont know why they didnt do the same this time around.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I think I am not getting my point across. I am leveling the blame at the shoulders of the Studio heads. The money guys. The CEO and the VPs who make the decisions. I know everything takes longer nowadays but my point is that they shouldve known that too. These teams need to be bigger. Pre-production teams need to be bigger and more efficient. It's not the devs fault, it's the suits who dont seem to be on top of their game.

IIRC, Neil and Bruce were told to go come up with a new game after U2 because Sony didnt want to lose them. They were eventually given a small team of designers and engineers who worked on pre-production while the main team worked on Uncharted 3 for the next two years. After shipping U3, those guys move to TLOU which was ready for full production and they were able to get the game out in a year and a half. I dont know why they didnt do the same this time around.
I just don't know why you think they didn't plan to have them working on something; if that something was the TLOU remake then it would be for a reason.. their creatives are probably off designing something else.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I just don't know why you think they didn't plan to have them working on something; if that something was the TLOU remake then it would be for a reason.. their creatives are probably off designing something else.
Ah, I was going off of this Schrier podcast. He brought up how ND only got involved full time after shipping TLOU2 because they had nothing better to do. (Some guys were off working on Factions which is online only)
 

twilo99

Member
But most games arent even running at 4k on the series x. All these so-called native 4k games use dynamic res that drops to 1440p in busy areas. What happens then? 800p-900?

I mean we do know that's what happens because Watch Dogs Legion which drops to 1440p on the xsx in the ray tracing mode drops down to 900p if not lower on the series s. And thats a cross gen game.

When next gen games roll around and target 1440p 30 fps, the xsx is going to struggle big time. Expect games to hit 720p. and thats the best case scenario.

Maybe a DLSS like solution can fix the resolution problem?

I'm just talking about the rest of the system.. its got the same fast SSD, supports VRR, expandable storage, dolby sound, etc. I don't think there is much of a difference between the x and s besides Tflops. Oh.. is the CPU much worse as well?
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
But most games arent even running at 4k on the series x. All these so-called native 4k games use dynamic res that drops to 1440p in busy areas. What happens then? 800p-900?

I mean we do know that's what happens because Watch Dogs Legion which drops to 1440p on the xsx in the ray tracing mode drops down to 900p if not lower on the series s. And thats a cross gen game.

When next gen games roll around and target 1440p 30 fps, the xsx is going to struggle big time. Expect games to hit 720p. and thats the best case scenario.

As you've mentioned several of the cross-gen games are already pushing the XSX and PS5 GPUs to the limit, otherwise they'd be 4k in every scenario. Unless something magic happens the power differential will remain the same between XSX and XSS till the end of time. Devs will use the power available differently, sure, but nothing really changes.
 
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IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Ah, I was going off of this Schrier podcast. He brought up how ND only got involved full time after shipping TLOU2 because they had nothing better to do. (Some guys were off working on Factions which is online only)
That's not even really what Jason said; not that he'd know the whole story anyways lol
 
We had the Control dev saying that it actually should be easier once cross-gen is out of the way.

Devs are all over the map about their XSS statements.

In the end, if it doesn't sell well.. and just as importantly, if the existence of the "XSS profile" doesn't help xCloud scale to more people.. it sucks that it's in the mix for developers.

If the existence of the XSS helps expand the userbase.. it'll be good for developers, despite the added complication. Really that's going to depend on whether cloud gaming takes off, because the XSS almost certainly exists because of xCloud more than anything else.
I haven't read any recent comments about XSS development difficulties. I certainly read some before the console came out. I also read comments that it wouldn't be an issue. I still haven't seen the full suite of features of the device being used so comments that it's holding things back seem pretty overblown.

I don't see how xCloud is a factor though because last I checked it the XSS is not a game streaming device. It plays games locally just like any other console. I don't think people really know what the XSS is capable of and here is yet another game with raytracing despite some thinking this systems power profile was likened to the Switch.



Like any other console performance will get better with time.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I haven't read any recent comments about XSS development difficulties. I certainly read some before the console came out. I also read comments that it wouldn't be an issue. I still haven't seen the full suite of features of the device being used so comments that it's holding things back seem pretty overblown.

I don't see how xCloud is a factor though because last I checked it the XSS is not a game streaming device. It plays games locally just like any other console. I don't think people really know what the XSS is capable of and here is yet another game with raytracing despite some thinking this systems power profile was likened to the Switch.



Like any other console performance will get better with time.

The XSS was likely created in part because MS wanted a lower powered "profile" for devs to target to be used in xCloud.

That's what I'm getting at. It's existence is likely largely due to xCloud. Requiring devs to target that lower profile will only really pay off for devs if it expands the console userbase to the point their games sell more. They needed a lower powered profile for xCloud because.. well.. profit.. and it only makes sense, since they think it'll catch on for mobile users who really don't need full 4k gaming.
 
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Tchu-Espresso

likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
I haven't read any recent comments about XSS development difficulties. I certainly read some before the console came out. I also read comments that it wouldn't be an issue. I still haven't seen the full suite of features of the device being used so comments that it's holding things back seem pretty overblown.

I don't see how xCloud is a factor though because last I checked it the XSS is not a game streaming device. It plays games locally just like any other console. I don't think people really know what the XSS is capable of and here is yet another game with raytracing despite some thinking this systems power profile was likened to the Switch.



Like any other console performance will get better with time.

Looks way better than Cyberpunk.

What resolution does it run at?
 

LiquidRex

Member
9IkbvNX.jpg

Mark Cerny pulls a Phil Spencer... Look what's on the shelf. 😛
 

jonnyp

Member
Maybe they're developing TLOU Remake as a way to dip their toes back into being a multi-production studio

At least I hope anyway. If all they're working on right now is factions and the remake then fuck me

Agree. I can understand that manning in projects follow an S-curve and that it might not be enough work in the beginning of a project to justify all the people on the payroll. So, if they thought that having some work on a smaller project until the new project is in full production would be a good idea then I cannot argue with that.

But as much as I love TLOU, I have no interest in a remake - I doubt many do. What they should have done instead was make another Lost Legacy or something.
 
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dcmk7

Banned
I haven't read any recent comments about XSS development difficulties. I certainly read some before the console came out. I also read comments that it wouldn't be an issue. I still haven't seen the full suite of features of the device being used so comments that it's holding things back seem pretty overblown.

I don't see how xCloud is a factor though because last I checked it the XSS is not a game streaming device. It plays games locally just like any other console. I don't think people really know what the XSS is capable of and here is yet another game with raytracing despite some thinking this systems power profile was likened to the Switch.



Like any other console performance will get better with time.


There was one just a couple of weeks ago..

"Xbox Series S, well, it's no different from the previous generations where the system with the lowest specs does end up dictating a few of the things that you're gonna do, because you're gonna have to run on that system, right? It's very easy to say that you just lower your resolution and texture quality and off you go, it's just nowhere near that simple.

It sounds good when you say it, but every engine is built in a different way. It's another thing when gamers might be like 'This game engine does all of these things!', well, it depends. Are you making an engine that's much more GPU bound or CPU bound? Which are you taxing a whole lot more? Well, we kind of tax both in Control because we have a lot of physics but then we have a lot of the ray tracing effects. That makes a huge, huge difference, especially on Xbox Series S"

https://wccftech.com/remedy-xbox-se...s-simple-as-lowering-resolution-and-textures/
 

Stooky

Member
I think I am not getting my point across. I am leveling the blame at the shoulders of the Studio heads. The money guys. The CEO and the VPs who make the decisions. I know everything takes longer nowadays but my point is that they shouldve known that too. These teams need to be bigger. Pre-production teams need to be bigger and more efficient. It's not the devs fault, it's the suits who dont seem to be on top of their game.

IIRC, Neil and Bruce were told to go come up with a new game after U2 because Sony didnt want to lose them. They were eventually given a small team of designers and engineers who worked on pre-production while the main team worked on Uncharted 3 for the next two years. After shipping U3, those guys move to TLOU which was ready for full production and they were able to get the game out in a year and a half. I dont know why they didnt do the same this time around.
haha you speak as if you have intimate knowledge of the inner workings at ND....you dont
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
haha you speak as if you have intimate knowledge of the inner workings at ND....you dont
None of us do so we shouldn't ever discuss things based on what we do know? Jason mentioned something new which is what I'm discussing.

Also the second paragraph about Neil and Bruce is all true. ND used to be open and up front back then and it was all mentioned in an article about the last of us.
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights


sMwivxx.png



What the hell, 45 fps??

Btw. even more what the hell, PS4 Pro and X1X have 60fps, while XSS doesn't. LOL
I dont know whats worse. Series S at 1080p 60 or 1440p 30 while the Pro and One X are doing 1080p 60.



But uh....werent we just talking about when games get more demanding whats gonna happen with the Series S?


Dusk golem on suicide watch. Both xsx and ps5 have same fps.

Maybe he meant Series S....

And the last gen base consoles just showing more n more separation as the cross gen period lingers on.....dayum.
 
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VFXVeteran

Banned
I dont buy it because they used to jump on new games right away. U1 to U2 was two years. U2 to U3 was 2 years. Then the entire production team from U3 literally moved to TLOU and shipped that in less than a year and a half. They didnt sit around for a year or two, they jumped on new games right away. I am guessing you have no idea what the ICE Team does but they are THE tech guys who work out of the Naughty Dog studio. Their job is to create engines and help Cerny with new consoles. I refuse to believe that they had devkits since 2019 and didnt have an engine ready for the creative team to jump right in.
Well believe it. My friend told me they hadn't even started refactoring their graphics engine for PC/PS5 when TLOU2 was done. They don't work that fast when everybody and their children were all hands on deck for the year-long crunch on TLOU2.
 
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Allandor

Member
I don't think many people are going to gaming on a TV capable of VRR.

For that reason only, I can't imagine VRR support would be a factor in the 45fps design decision tbh.
Well, that is true (at least for now). But there is always the personal preference for open fps vs stable lower fps. Some people like the lower input lag and have no problem with the syncing issues.
 

skit_data

Member


sMwivxx.png



What the hell, 45 fps??

Btw. even more what the hell, PS4 Pro and X1X have 60fps, while XSS doesn't. LOL
The more i think about it, i suspect Duskgolem mustve simply mixed up the Series S and PS5 for some reason. I can almost see it in front of me, him overhearing his ”sauces” talking about it:
”Well the Series X does just fine, but the other one struggles at 1080p 60fps”
And him coming to the conclusion the ”other one” being the PS5.

Also; 45 fps, wat.
 
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The more i think about it, i suspect Duskgolem mustve simply mixed up the Series S and PS5 for some reason. I can almost see it in front of me, him overhearing his ”sau talking about it:
”Well the Series X does just fine, but the other one struggles at 1080p 60fps”
And him coming to the conclusion the ”other one” being the PS5.

Also; 45 fps, wat.

Pretty sad if he confused the XSS with the PS5. But I guess he was expecting a massive difference between the two which is why he came to that conclusion.
 
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SSfox

Member
The more i think about it, i suspect Duskgolem mustve simply mixed up the Series S and PS5 for some reason. I can almost see it in front of me, him overhearing his ”sauces” talking about it:
”Well the Series X does just fine, but the other one struggles at 1080p 60fps”
And him coming to the conclusion the ”other one” being the PS5.

Also; 45 fps, wat.
WTF Capcom, can't they just give us Sub 4K, RT + 60 fps, wtf is this 45 fps thing smh capcom

Jun Takeuchi may need to spend a week at Insomniacs maybe, they will learn him how to do so.
 
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KingT731

Member
Some more tidbits from Jason's podcast.

- John Garvin (Writer/creative director of days gone) actually left the studio right after the game shipped
- Sony brought in hollywood talent to replace him. They pitched Days Gone 2 and then an Uncharted spinoff. Neither panned out after ND took a bigger role into uncharted.
- Both hollywood writers left in 2020.
- Sony Bend got the greenlight to do their new IP just weeks ago. They like this because this means they wont have to answer to ND on every decision they have to make on their next game.

The next bit is from the Gameinformer guys interviewing schrier. They went to the studio to cover the Days Gone release, and found an interesting dynamic. Apparently the younger generation was at odds with the leadership. The fucking millennials were questioning their decisions and the creative leads were like no, we have one writer and one creative lead. I wonder if there was some kind of tug of war between the SJW squads and the more laid back older guys like John Garvin and Jeff Ross. The game was (unfairly) lambasted by the media for its writing which could explain why John left right away. I personally though the game was very well written. It started off weak, but picked up when you got to the third camp and finished strong. It wasn't some alt-right biker fantasy either. There were lesbians, interracial lesbians infact, and even a bi girl who ends up developing feelings for Deacon. His wife was written very well especially in the later chapters. I have no idea why that wasnt good enough for the media and apparently now, the actual developers at the studio.
I'll give you a little hint. How many of those "journalists" actually finished the game?
 
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