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[Shmunter]

They're faking it.

Yes, it’s a video game. Not real life silly

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm not assuming that shit. To me, THAT'S DUMB. They did what they did and it's releasing soon. They implemented the reflections and they already had implemented the other features on the PC so there's no "mastering the PS5" to get more than reflections in the game. The freaking console HAS NO DLSSS!!! For Christ's Sake! Wtf do you guys expect?? This is why we always argue. You guys "wish" upon a star and I tell you the facts that you don't want to hear. It's made worse when I'm right after the game comes out.



Stop dreaming man. Did Spiderman MM have more RT features? Did you say, "this is their first gameplay footage but they may have more RT features to come?"

Be rationale!

RT is fucking expensive. And even the high-end GPUs REQUIRE DLSS to run at a reasonable FPS. You have a console that has NO DLSS. How much do you think genius developers will accomplish without hardware DLSS to push more RT to a console that shown to only perform at 2060 levels?

No, we always argue, because most of the time you are wrong and you always want to throw around the "PC IS KING" mentality in threads where people don't care about the PC version.

 

[Black_Stride]

Played the game when it was out and the lightning without RTX was absolute dog shit.

Okay.
But PC already got the Ultimate Edition.

And I dont think anything has been changed in non-RT version of the game lighting wise.
I legit would need to look at screenshots from when I played the game at launch and after the last DLC to know if anything changed.

I switched between RT and non-RT all the time to capture screenshots, I didnt think the lighting was dogshit, Remedys Multi-Scale Global Illumination is one of the most advanced non-RT implementations of Global Illumination in the industry right now.
Maybe its just the artstyle in general you didnt like?

This is what it looks like without RT:






^Is that dog shit lighting?

 

[VFXVeteran]

No, we always argue, because most of the time you are wrong and you always want to throw around the "PC IS KING" mentality in threads where people don't care about the PC version.

No. Most of the time YOU guys are wrong and we argue over your wishful thinking with regards to hardware and game software. You don't like that I impose a realistic setting for graphics algorithms that don't put the PS5 in a good "superior" light. Call it what it is buddy.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Control's lighting "looking like shit" is something I did not expect to read.

 

[Tickle My Tendies]

Control's lighting "looking like shit" is something I did not expect to read.

Narrator: It didn't.

It was/is fantastic.

 

[Kenpachii]

Okay.
But PC already got the Ultimate Edition.

And I dont think anything has been changed in non-RT version of the game lighting wise.
I legit would need to look at screenshots from when I played the game at launch and after the last DLC to know if anything changed.

I switched between RT and non-RT all the time to capture screenshots, I didnt think the lighting was dogshit, Remedys Multi-Scale Global Illumination is one of the most advanced non-RT implementations of Global Illumination in the industry right now.
Maybe its just the artstyle in general you didnt like?

This is what it looks like without RT:



^Is that dog shit lighting?

That's what it looked like at launch, maybe they patched it. But god the game looked awful without RTX.

 

[regawdless]

Yes, it’s a video game. Not real life silly

He means that these aren't raytraced transparent reflections. The are faking it to give the perception of depth.

But that's easy to confirm. Can somebody who owns the game go and take screens from bus stops for example? The should be reflective and transparent, if they're really using it.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Okay.
But PC already got the Ultimate Edition.

And I dont think anything has been changed in non-RT version of the game lighting wise.
I legit would need to look at screenshots from when I played the game at launch and after the last DLC to know if anything changed.

I switched between RT and non-RT all the time to capture screenshots, I didnt think the lighting was dogshit, Remedys Multi-Scale Global Illumination is one of the most advanced non-RT implementations of Global Illumination in the industry right now.
Maybe its just the artstyle in general you didnt like?

This is what it looks like without RT:






^Is that dog shit lighting?

No. The poster wants to establish the game being at a disadvantage from the jump. Quantum break had some of the most advanced lighting in a game period. You'd be hard-pressed to match it with another game.

 

[Shmunter]

I don't think being able to see inside a store window means it is ray traced transparent reflections. I could be wrong though.

Yes, you are wrong. All windows and reflective surfaces irrespective of roughness in Spider-Man have raytracing in the game, including ones you see through. Have finished the game so take it as first hand and not hearsay.

 

[mckmas8808]

Gotta be said, I am not expecting too much from RT on these consoles. Even though I do think that they may squeeze more out in that department in a couple of years, if we are going to have a gen of just shiny shit and reflections, I would rather they didn't bother and put the power to use elsewhere.

Luckily for us gamers, Insomniac has shown the world that the bolded is a stupid mentality to have. MANY of us have enjoyed what we've played and seen in Spiderman: MM.

 

[VFXVeteran]

That's what it looked like at launch, maybe they patched it. But god the game looked awful without RTX.

Do you HAVE the game?

 

[Rikkori]

Here is Control at Medium settings, no MSAA, 1080p render resolution (4K output), RT Reflections + Transparent Reflections, in the same spot.

Then Control 1080p MAX

The PS5 graphics version:

 

[Shmunter]

He means that these aren't raytraced transparent reflections. The are faking it to give the perception of depth.

But that's easy to confirm. Can somebody who owns the game go and take screens from bus stops for example? The should be reflective and transparent, if they're really using it.

They fake it using screen space and cube maps....outside of raytracing modes. Raytracing mode gives you....raytracing.

Lots of confusion, happy to help.

 

[Self]

I thought the game was beautiful on PC. The entire suite of RT options available there make a huge difference. Huge.

Nah, you can only do so much with lightning and resolution. But the core assets, character models etc are not really impressive. But I really liked the art style!

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm not downing it. I'm reminding the Sony warriors of how limited it is so they can stop thinking it's an infinite black box of power that is ONLY limited by the talent of the developer. Most of them genuinely think that they'll be able to play games with ALL RT features shown on a high-end PC at some point with 2060 proven performance.

WHO THE F*CK said that? My dude.......YOU started this! It's literally all on the first page. IT.......WAS..........YOU!

 

[VFXVeteran]

Yes, you are wrong. All windows and reflective surfaces irrespective of roughness in Spider-Man have raytracing in the game, including ones you see through. Have finished the game so take it as first hand and not hearsay.

LOL! This is how I can clown you guys that have no clue about what you are talking about.

How do you achieve refractions? What is the interiors in Spiderman MM? They aren't real you know that right? It's just a projective texture.

 

[Ogbert]

Absolutely loved this game.

Appreciate that the ultimate edition was a crappy move, but there aren't many studios delivering the sort of polished single-player experiences that Remedy produce, so I'll definitely play through it again on the PS5.

And worth it for *that* level.

 

[VFXVeteran]

WHO THE F*CK said that? My dude.......YOU started this! It's literally all on the first page. IT.......WAS..........YOU!

You IMPLY it! Every time someone makes any claim that the PS5 WILL NOT be able to do something - you come in and fight it! That's implying. Why don't you agree to something that doesn't put the PS5 in a good performance light.

For example, PS5 won't have RT GI in Control.. at all. Period. Agree?

 

[Leyasu]

Luckily for us gamers, Insomniac has shown the world that the bolded is a stupid mentality to have. MANY of us have enjoyed what we've played and seen in Spiderman: MM.

I am not doubting that you have. I have not seen or played spiderman, but I ain't holding much hope for an enhanced implementation. What sacrificies are going to need to be made to get there etc...

 

[Shmunter]

LOL! This is how I can clown you guys that have no clue about what you are talking about.

How do you achieve refractions? What is the interiors in Spiderman MM? They aren't real you know that right? It's just a projective texture.

The more you post, the stupider we all get

 

[Leyasu]

Here is Control at Medium settings, no MSAA, 1080p render resolution (4K output), RT Reflections + Transparent Reflections, in the same spot.

Then Control 1080p MAX

The PS5 graphics version:

Middle shot looks best to me without my specs on

 

[VFXVeteran]

The more you post, the stupider we all get

Right. Here is your subtle way of not answering me and just taking jabs at the air without making any argument. I keep forgetting you haven't written a single line of code with regards to rendering. And yet, you are trying to tell someone about it like you work with it everyday. So funny!

 

[regawdless]

They fake it using screen space and cube maps....outside of raytracing modes. Raytracing mode gives you....raytracing.

Lots of confusion, happy to help.

So there are no raytraced transparent reflections. Thanks.

 

[Black_Stride]

That's what it looked like at launch, maybe they patched it. But god the game looked awful without RTX.

Hahahaha are you joking with me?

A glitch where the shadows arent rendering properly and thats your example of "this is how the whole game looks", notice when he sets the game to medium it looks better than when he had it supposedly set to High.
You dont have to show me videos.....ive got the game on my PC right now, I can load it up and turn off RT, calling Controls lighting is probably the last complaint I have about Control.
Yes this hub area is one of the weaker sections of the game because the light is seemingly emanating unnaturally, but that video is clearly glitching.

Since you played it, did the game forget to render shadows when you were playing it on High, because the intro cutscene alone would have told you if your game is glitching or not.

Theres a whole Vidoe on Control RT vs Non-RT.

Yes it looks better with RT on full wormage....but that doesnt mean it looks like dogshit with it off.

 

[Shmunter]

Right. Here is your subtle way of not answering me and just taking jabs at the air without making any argument. I keep forgetting you haven't written a single line of code with regards to rendering. And yet, you are trying to tell someone about it like you work with it everyday. So funny!

Modelled 3D interiors you can enter are ‘projected textures’ - you’re brilliant input. You’re so tragically clueless you must be a troll, there’s no other explanation. I’m convinced you Google tech words you have no clue about thinking to dazzle people for some kind of thrill.

Seek help

 

[MistBreeze]

I don't know why are most people ungreatfull for these new consoles

last thing I remember
we can only play in 30fps in most games last gen

and now 60fps is the norm.... this is huge for consoles and in 4k too ( or near it most of the time )

this is alone is a megaton

I remember in early next gen speculations that most people suspected RT is a pipe dream on ps5 and series x

and now we see it nearly in each game even if it just reflections in most game and shadows in cold war

really we could not imagine we will get consoles in performance comparable to 2080 super with top of the line cpus with minimal bottlenecks

and let be real most of us will turn RT on enjoy a bit but will toggle 60fps mode on

 

[VFXVeteran]

Doesn't matter. You said forget RT for the entire gen if 60fps is the target. Spider-Man and COD Cold War prove you wrong.

I didn't mean forego it completely. I meant why bother (as the poster said). The reflections will be so low quality that it won't even matter. The quality mode at least has better textures and casts shadows. If you are completely desperate to prove me "wrong" no matter what the outcome is.. then go ahead and enjoy doing that. I'll still be laughing at the low quality games..

 

[Shmunter]

So there are no raytraced transparent reflections. Thanks.

Yes, no, maybe. Well done, you’re getting somewhere.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Modelled 3D interiors you can enter are ‘projected textures’ - you’re brilliant input. You’re so tragically clueless you must be a troll, there’s no other explanation. I’m convinced you Google tech words you have no clue about thinking to dazzle people for some kind of thrill.

Seek help

We are talking about Spiderman's offices in buildings bro. NOT Control's. And if you really want to go down the road of challenging my knowledge, make a thread and it'll be over in one page.

 

[Black_Stride]

Rikkori

Made a comparison right quick between PC and PS5.

They did a pretty decent job all things considered, the corridor of doom will be the real test of the PS5s mettle.

https://cdn.knightlab.com/libs/juxtapose/latest/embed/index.html?uid=87bb4bf6-4156-11eb-83c8-ebb5d6f907df

 

[Concern]

I enjoyed Control. May try out new game plus on it if possible.

But as for this thread




Please Please carry on

 

[mckmas8808]

You IMPLY it! Every time someone makes any claim that the PS5 WILL NOT be able to do something - you come in and fight it! That's implying. Why don't you agree to something that doesn't put the PS5 in a good performance light.

For example, PS5 won't have RT GI in Control.. at all. Period. Agree?

I don't know what you are even saying right now. The PS5 is in a good performance light. I disagree with the premise of your post. Will it equal someone having a PC that's worth $1,500? No...but that's okay. That doesn't mean the PS5 and Series X won't have amazing looking games with RT in it.

I am not doubting that you have. I have not seen or played spiderman, but I ain't holding much hope for an enhanced implementation. What sacrificies are going to need to be made to get there etc...

I think anyone buying a $500 console should know that their purchase (at that price) means you are opting in to playing games that will have more sacrifices being made to it when compared to a $1,500 PC. The far majority are happy with this compromise because the games still look and run amazing.

 

[Shmunter]

We are talking about Spiderman's offices in buildings bro. NOT Control's. And if you really want to go down the road of challenging my knowledge, make a thread and it'll be over in one page.

Spider-Man has shopfronts on the street level, crimes occur in them on occasion, you can smash through windows, etc. and enter them. Street level is littered with shops with modelled interiors you can see into. Do you need a diagram, or are you still lost?

 

[VFXVeteran]

I don't know what you are even saying right now. The PS5 is in a good performance light. I disagree with the premise of your post. Will it equal someone having a PC that's worth $1,500? No...but that's okay. That doesn't mean the PS5 and Series X won't have amazing looking games with RT in it.

You still are avoiding responding to the claim.

Claim: The PS5 isn't powerful enough to enable RT GI along with RT reflections in Control. True or False?

 

[Rikkori]

Also a 1440p medium settings + 2x msaa + medium RT shot; keeps about 55-60fps on a 6800 so I guess 30 fps might be doable on the PS5. One thing I noticed in the PS5 footage is that the RT is either more or less noisy compared to PC depending on the area, but entire surfaces seem to be missing for example you can clearly see the marble floor tiles in the glass doors reflection on PC but not on PS5 etc.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Spider-Man has shopfronts on the street level, crimes occur in them on occasion, you can smash through windows, etc. and enter them. Street level is littered with shops with modelled interiors you can see into. Do you need a diagram, or are you still lost?

Shmunter - don't play with me dude. When you swing around and walk up an office building with 100 offices. Are they modeled interiors or not?

 

[mckmas8808]

I don't know why are most people ungreatfull for these new consoles

last thing I remember
we can only play in 30fps in most games last gen

and now 60fps is the norm.... this is huge for consoles and in 4k too ( or near it most of the time )

this is alone is a megaton

I remember in early next gen speculations that most people suspected RT is a pipe dream on ps5 and series x

and now we see it nearly in each game even if it just reflections in most game and shadows in cold war

really we could not imagine we will get consoles in performance comparable to 2080 super with top of the line cpus with minimal bottlenecks

and let be real most of us will turn RT on enjoy a bit but will toggle 60fps mode on

YOOO!!!! You are one MILLION percent correct. I remember the bolded clear as day. It's crazy now if a game isn't running at 4K\60 + RT, it's some sort of horror. Or if it is 60fps + RT, now it's terrible if every single RT setting isn't turned on. If the RT reflections are only 1080p then it's terrible. Or if it's Dynamic 4K\30 + RT, but at PC's medium settings then that means it's terrible too.

 

[mckmas8808]

You still are avoiding responding to the claim.

Claim: The PS5 isn't powerful enough to enable RT GI along with RT reflections in Control. True or False?

As of right now, it'll be true. It can't do it. In 2023? Maybe.

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

That game has ONE RT feature. And they reduced even more of the games' aethestics. Do you guys think this shit is for free? That really annoys me about SonyGAF.. which is why I'm on the trigger to call them out on their silly assumptions whenver a new game releases showing the facts.

Why are you moving goal posts though. You originally said "Then forget RT on the PS5 then.. for the entire generation" in regards to raytracing and 60fps. Yet here we are, one month out from launch and already there is a game that makes your statement look foolish.

So now you're saying ONE rt feature doesn't count? What is the arbitrary number of rt features needed for you? 4? 12?

 

[Derktron]

Once you go 60, you never look back

And once you go 120fps you can never go back to 60fps.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Why are you moving goal posts though. You originally said "Then forget RT on the PS5 then.. for the entire generation" in regards to raytracing and 60fps. Yet here we are, one month out from launch and already there is a game that makes your statement look foolish.

So now you're saying ONE rt feature doesn't count? What is the arbitrary number of rt features needed for you? 4? 12?

My comment was addressing this guy's comment:

Gotta be said, I am not expecting too much from RT on these consoles. Even though I do think that they may squeeze more out in that department in a couple of years, if we are going to have a gen of just shiny shit and reflections, I would rather they didn't bother and put the power to use elsewhere.

Does that clear things up?

 

[Tickle My Tendies]

YOOO!!!! You are one MILLION percent correct. I remember the bolded clear as day. It's crazy now if a game isn't running at 4K\60 + RT, it's some sort of horror. Or if it is 60fps + RT, now it's terrible if every single RT setting isn't turned on. If the RT reflections are only 1080p then it's terrible. Or if it's Dynamic 4K\30 + RT, but at PC's medium settings then that means it's terrible too.

Interesting.

I mean, one can praise the PS5 and XsX for being OUTSTANDING values and offering unsurpassed bang for the buck (which I think they both do) while still being critical of some performance aspects.

The RT reflections in MM and SMR Performance RT mode don't look "terrible," no, but the 720p reflections in that mode are noticeably messier than the 1080p reflections in the Fidelity mode. It is fair to point that out, fair to point out other concessions made when offering 60 fps and RT on console.

But no, definitely not terrible. Nothing about what we have seen from the NG consoles is terrible (imo anyway).

That doesn't mean that everything is perfect, either. I don't see harm in discussing both the strengths and weaknesses.

really we could not imagine we will get consoles in performance comparable to 2080 super with top of the line cpus with minimal bottlenecks

and let be real most of us will turn RT on enjoy a bit but will toggle 60fps mode on

What is the PC equivalent of the NG consoles' CPU? A 3700x? Definitely a great gaming CPU, for sure.

As for the second point, a lot of people enjoy 30fps fidelity mode. A lot of people just assume everyone else plays games like they do. That is pretty ignorant. RT was a big discussion heading into this gen. A lot of people want to see the shiny bells and whistles

 

[Mokus]

Let's hope that they will ad also performance mode with ray tracing.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Rikkori

Made a comparison right quick between PC and PS5.

They did a pretty decent job all things considered, the corridor of doom will be the real test of the PS5s mettle.

https://cdn.knightlab.com/libs/juxtapose/latest/embed/index.html?uid=87bb4bf6-4156-11eb-83c8-ebb5d6f907df

dat dynamic 4k?

 

[Clear]

Got to be honest. I generally disregard what high-end PC can do as a benchmark because frankly its unfair to compare result based on hardware in a wildly dissimilar power and price range. If thousands of dollars worth of top-tier PC components can't get better visuals than a $500 console... we all ought to hang it up, because where have we got left to go in future?

The truth of the matter is that there aren't a lot of "secret" techniques to be discovered, most stuff is presented at symposia and in academic papers years before its implemented as mass market features, devs just pick and choose based on budget vs utility.

Been saying for a long time that CDPR's stuff isn't especially impressive to me; its solid but as a PC-first dev their engine only scales well at the high-end. Cyberpunk running so poorly on OG X1 and PS4 only surprised me insofar as quite how far below the 30fps average it drops, because even if it did hold 30 solidly it wouldn't be state-of-the-art visually on those systems with the rendering features it has enabled for that hardware tier.

 

[Md Ray]

I didn't mean forego it completely. I meant why bother (as the poster said). The reflections will be so low quality that it won't even matter. The quality mode at least has better textures and casts shadows. If you are completely desperate to prove me "wrong" no matter what the outcome is.. then go ahead and enjoy doing that. I'll still be laughing at the low quality games..

I don't understand this. What were you expecting from a $399 box? 3090 levels of visuals/performance?

 

[mckmas8808]

Interesting.

I mean, one can praise the PS5 and XsX for being OUTSTANDING values and offering unsurpassed bang for the buck (which I think they both do) while still being critical of some performance aspects.

The RT reflections in MM and SMR Performance RT mode don't look "terrible," no, but the 720p reflections in that mode are noticeably messier than the 1080p reflections in the Fidelity mode. It is fair to point that out, fair to point out other concessions made when offering 60 fps and RT on console.

But no, definitely not terrible. Nothing about what we have seen from the NG consoles is terrible (imo anyway).

That doesn't mean that everything is perfect, either. I don't see harm in discussing both the strengths and weaknesses.



What is the PC equivalent of the NG consoles' CPU? A 3700x? Definitely a great gaming CPU, for sure.

As for the second point, a lot of people enjoy 30fps fidelity mode. A lot of people just assume everyone else plays games like they do. That is pretty ignorant. RT was a big discussion heading into this gen. A lot of people want to see the shiny bells and whistles

Discussing the strengths and weaknesses of RT on consoles and PC is one of the best parts of being on GAF with other gamers. That's a great thing to do. But that's not what VFXVeteran is or has been doing.

 

[Pedro Motta]

LOL!

So ... ONLY reflections! Oh well.. there goes massive power optimization to gain some TFLOPS for ray-tracing more than 1 feature.

Such a douchebag as always. Keep it up. Comparing 500$ hardware to 3000$ PC's.
If you check this:

https://cdn.knightlab.com/libs/juxt...html?uid=a2a5e20c-413b-11eb-83c8-ebb5d6f907df

You can see that it's not only reflections taking place, the interior has some kind of RT shadows or AO.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I have always tried to point out the compromises that have to be made for the consoles when viewing these games upon release. My standard gauge has to be compared to the top-tier because that's basically the most you will get out of the game in any scenario. Seeing how close a console game comes to high-end PC hardware as far as features and FPS is very interesting to me. I think the tension comes from me pointing out these shortcomings. I get jumped by the Sony warriors for attacking what is basically what is shown for everyone to see. If we could get more admitance of hardware limitations instead of defending it by saying "it's early in the gen or the game is unoptimized", I think discussions will be more fruitful. mckmas8808 immediately jumped down my throat with an insult when what I said was clearly the truth with respect to Remedy and their iteration of Control for the PS5.