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[Keihart]

I think it's great and i see sometimes the weirdest of complaints towards it, people even going as far as holding it's writing to standards that they don't hold any other game or even simply ignoring things in it to drive a point.
I don't really care tho, i rarely let the "internet" drive my opinion and holding grudges it's the most useless shit you can do with your energy.

I think the game it's gonna age like fine wine and you can already see it happening, after the race to get a hot take about it after the leaks , now you can find a lot more good reviews and examinations of the game after the dust settled recognizing the good in it and the real short comings of it.

One thing it's for sure tho, the game did a really good job in making people get emotional towards it.

 

[Represent.]

They couldnt recognize a quality game if its fucking them in the booty.

They have no concept of "theres levels to this shit". The game is masterfully crafted in all departments.

They prefer generic yearly Assassin Creed games because its less risky.

They have no concept of true greatness in the medium.

They think dark = bad.

They think revenge stories should have happy endings, or else they suck. Too simple minded to look at the bigger picture in a story.

They think killing a main character = bad story. They have no concept of good writing.

They think having a lesbian in a game = wOkE sJw AgEnDa

Just bad taste all around.

TLOU 2 is the GOTG

 

[Shtof]

The basic structure of the narrative is incompetent and amateurish at a fundamental level.

This is so subjective and can be said about any game.

 

[StormCell]

Hate seems too strong a word for a video game.

I'll preface by saying I'll never play TLOU, though. This could be why I'm indifferent to the games. I'm not interested in LGBTQ stories. I'm just not. I'm glad the DLC came out before I jumped into the game.

And I think that's related to why many people are turned off by TLOU2. People who were able to relate with Joel in TLOU probably feel like they were done a huge disservice by his being killed off and subsequently no relatable male character, unless you count Abby, was brought in to fill this void. Sometimes I think that modern writers forget that audiences need someone they can relate with. No amount of diversity trainings and re-educations are going to break that paradigm. Male audiences generally relate with male characters. Men simply do not relate much with lesbian or trans characters, and this shouldn't be shocking or frowned at. So [you] wrote a story that had much less appeal for your male audience--admit you flubbed and try and do better on your next project!

This should be reason enough for you to understand why TLOU2 left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. It's that flavor and smell that you get when you realize "a girl" with no vagina is taking it from behind. Congratulations.

 

[Woggleman]

I'm in my 30s, have lived in a county of around 400k my whole life, and have never seen, met, or even had 10th hand knowledge of a tran individual. I only personally know 2 openly gay people. It shouldn't be surprising that people with similar life experience might consider such characters forced pandering to serve a political agenda. What may seem normal or commonplace in New York or San Francisco doesn't necessarily translate to the rest of the country or world. You are talking about like 0.3% and 3% of the population for tran and openly gay respectively. In modern media as a whole they probably represent 5 -20% of characters respectively, and like 80% in TLoU2. Still think it's not political?

I have gays in my family and my one cousin who is a lesbian I am very close to since we share many interests and they are normal people like anybody else.

 

[Nikana]

This is overall a bad take.


People fail to put everything into perspective.


- Joel and Ellie didn't have this loving relationship at the end of The Last of Us Part I. People should have known going into Part II that Ellie would have some level of hatred towards Joel.

- Ellie let Abby go because she knows Joel was reasonable for killing her father and costing millions of people a chance for a cure - a cure she was willing to sacrifice herself for. In a way, she feels reasonable for her father dying and mentions when she finally confronts Abby.

- There was no place for Joel's story to go other than for Ellie and Joel to forgive each other, and that's exactly what happened.

- If the Last of Us Part II didn't go into Joel's story after his death, then you would have a point, but that didn't happen. We get to see what happened to Joel's and Ellie's relationship right after his death. The game makes us believe Ellie hated Joel until his death, until we find out that Ellie was able to forgive him shortly before his death.

- One of the strongest elements of the first game was in fact Joel and Ellie's relationship... but again, was their relationship strong at the end? The answer is no. It was Joel's decision to save Ellie and she didn't want that to happen.

- Having a less feminine character seems like a personal problem. From a gameplay respective, you're getting two different types of characters. 1 that replies on speed and quickness and the other on pure strength.


A lot of the rant goes in to politics. People are too invested in this stuff and come up with a lot of ridiculous theories.

Notice you didn't have a lot to say about Abby, the other characters in this 20 hours plus game where you play as Abby for at least 40 percent of it. (granted you were responding to a comment that didnt have a lot of Abby in it)

If you pull out whats good about TLOU II and ignore the bad it will always sound good. The points you bring up are the logical conclusion that are buried in the story and will be lost for many due to how its told. I would also argue that some of conclusions are not even found in the narrative and could be debated, again because how the story is told. The overall package is lopsided and poorly presented and is filled with writing that is spent trying to force emotions vs telling a story. And thats before you even get into the game play issues and how it merges with the story being told.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

This is so subjective and can be said about any game.

Wrong!

 

[DForce]

Notice you didn't have a lot to say about Abby, the other characters in this 20 hours plus game where you play as Abby for at least 40 percent of it. (granted you were responding to a comment that didnt have a lot of Abby in it)

If you pull out whats good about TLOU II and ignore the bad it will always sound good. The points you bring up are the logical conclusion that are buried in the story and will be lost for many due to how its told. I would also argue that some of conclusions are not even found in the narrative and could be debated, again because how the story is told. The overall package is lopsided and poorly presented and is filled with writing that is spent trying to force emotions vs telling a story.

Bad is subjective.

People call bad writing and I fail to see it. It's like people want to find reasons to hate a game and they resort to nitpicking when similar things can be found in many movies and video games.


I didn't speak a lot about Abby because I wasn't required to. I can talk a lot about her story when needed.

 

[MiguelItUp]

They couldnt recognize a quality game if its fucking them in the booty.

They have no concept of "theres levels to this shit". The game is masterfully crafted in all departments.

They prefer generic yearly Assassin Creed games because its less risky.

They have no concept of true greatness in the medium.

They think dark = bad.

They think revenge stories should have happy endings, or else they suck. Cant look at the bigger picture in a story.

They think killing a main character = bad story. They have no concept of good writing.

They think having a lesbian in a game = wOkE sJw AgEnDa

Just bad taste all around.

TLOU 2 is the GOTG

Jesus Christ. Yeah, that's cue to leave, lmao.

It's clear that there's "no right answer" for some people, even if it's just people describing their opinions. So, might as well stop while you're ahead or you're just wasting time on a topic that has no end. Aside from people having their own opinion, and that's that. Neither right, neither wrong. At least that's how it SHOULD be, lmao. Some how it all goes back to a, "NO! YOU'RE WRONG!" reaction, it's silly.

Like I said, I thought the game was fine, it definitely had some improvements over the previous. Especially in gameplay and graphics. Dug the music too. But I still ultimately loved the first game more, and gave it much more attention.

 

[Reallink]

I have gays in my family and my one cousin who is a lesbian I am very close to since we share many interests and they are normal people like anybody else.

Who said they weren't? I said they are rare and overrepresented, I insenuated nothing about their character. The 2 I know are very close friends of mine, they're married to each other.

 

[TGO]

Have not played it since that rainbow crossing in the game.
Not because of that, I just lost interest and had better games to play and just haven't had the desire to return to it because I don't feel invested in it
I'm not saying it's a bad game, you can tell it's made by a talented team but the characters and the story ain't there like it was in the original
And even the returning characters feel different and disjointed from the character I knew
Not sure if I'd return to it.
Maybe someday, I think when there's nothing else to play or replay....
I never wanted a sequel and like every other sequel that's been made recently in the last 7 years to the fantastic originals of the past I'd rather they didn't make it at all

 

[Martinski43]

They couldnt recognize a quality game if its fucking them in the booty.

They have no concept of "theres levels to this shit". The game is masterfully crafted in all departments.

They prefer generic yearly Assassin Creed games because its less risky.

They have no concept of true greatness in the medium.

They think dark = bad.

They think revenge stories should have happy endings, or else they suck. Too simple minded to look at the bigger picture in a story.

They think killing a main character = bad story. They have no concept of good writing.

They think having a lesbian in a game = wOkE sJw AgEnDa

Just bad taste all around.

TLOU 2 is the GOTG

TLOU 2 fans really are among the most obnoxious. For reals my dudes.

 

[Nikana]

Bad is subjective.

People call bad writing and I fail to see it. It's like people want to find reasons to hate a game and they resort to nitpicking when similar things can be found in many movies and video games.


I didn't speak a lot about Abby because I wasn't required to. I can talk a lot about her story when needed.

Saying people are nitpicking to try and hate a game when you have tons of people on this forum with very well thought out posts on why they don't like it is not nitpicking by the community. Like you said, bad is subjective but a majority, not all, of people that do not like it have backed up their claims to why they don't like it.

Trying to say other small things can be found in other games people are nitpicking, is in itself, a nitpick. Thats like the Marvel VS DC movie debate. If you have to start looking at other content in the media and try to draw conclusions based on how people have received other content that isnt directly connected to the original you are really not arguing the content itself anymore.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

TLOU 2 fans really are mong the most obnoxious. For reals my dudes.

Lets be happy it didn't win the award. If it did, you'd be hearing about for years. The gamers resemble Druckmann. Lots of bragging and chest beating. And when it loses, sour grapes.

 

[Edgelord79]

I didn't hate it. I just thought it was ok. I found the first one quite a bit better.

Your definitive statements are funny though.

 

[gelatinskeleton]

It's just not my type of game. I've seen enough stories about zombies and the human struggle during the apocalypse to where TLOU franchise doesn't break new ground for me. I'll admit that the performances are fantastic and the animation work is some of the best in the industry, but I can't be made to care about game that wants to impress upon me that "killing is bad m'kay" while forcing me to murder a lot of people in the process. I don't play games to be preached to. I think a lot of the hatred towards the actual game is overblown. TLOU2 is good, but it's not my thing.

Outside of the game, I'm not really fond of how Neil Druckman conducts himself on the Internet, and I'm not okay with the crunch that took place to release TLOU2. I'm excited for Cyberpunk 2077 to release, but I am also upset that they lied to people and went ahead with crunch anyway. I could have dealt with another delay because the memes and the Internet's meltdown were hilarious to me.

 

[mikefrails]

Game leaked, seemed worse than what it was, and people are committed to portraying whatever impression they had. “N-no trust me, I genuinely don’t like the game. It has nothing to do with an overhyped hate-train, trust me”.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

You know with cyberpunk coming out I was worried there wouldn't be enough last of us 2 threads.

 

[Fbh]

I've written about it in other threads so I don't want to get too specific but personally I thought the story wasn't very good or engaging. They took a big element away from the original and replaced it with another that wasn't nearly as compelling.

The game is unnecessarily long and has, IMO, bad pacing. They have you slowly upgrading a character and just when you have plenty of skills and weapons you have to start from scratch again, not to mention they leave a big cliffhanger and have you going through mostly uninteresting (at least IMO) stuff for like 10 hours to get back to it. What kept me playing was seeing what would happen at the end of the big cliffhanger, not what would happen the 40th time you have to go to the aquarium.

The combat was pretty good and offered a nice upgrade over the original. Outside of combat there was pretty much nothing new though, and the length ended up making the scavenging really boring IMO. There's only so many hours I can slowly walk through samish looking abandoned buildings opening mostly empty drawers before it gets really boring.

Anyway, I didn't think it was bad, but to me it was a 7/10 game and a big disappointment.

 

[R6Rider]

Overall I enjoyed it. Gameplay was very fun and although the story direction should have been different, I was at least invested and wanting to know what was going to happen next.

The rope throwing mechanic was underused!

 

[cryogenic7]

Because I don't like playing a game where I am forced to play as an ugly angry sjw

 

[turtlepowa]

I don't care about that She-Hulk or lesbian stuff, not even the mediocre gameplay. But killing the main character at the beginning? Come on, imagine Indiana Jones being killed by that assassin at the beginning of The Temple of Doom. Who would say "great story" or "great movie"? Nobody, not even if Indiana killed the assassin's dad in Raiders Of The Lost Ark.

 

[Airbus Jr]

Im glad Ghost of Tsushima beat TLOU II

Never like that Dr Uckman

 

[Warnen]

I thought the game was great but the story sucked. Didn’t make sense to me unless Ellie knew what we did when playing Abby. Should have started off as Abby and mid point of the game swapped to Ellie with the death of Joel. That way you instantly don’t hate her.

With that said 7/10 for me, worse naughty dog game since uncharted 1 but over all still ok.

 

[Represent.]

TLOU 2 fans really are among the most obnoxious. For reals my dudes.

its all facts my guy. i just type it in an entertaining way to read.

 

[Saruhashi]

For the same reason I didn't care for Game of Thrones or a lot of other modern media. Gritty, drimdark shit with graphic violence and sexual content isn't how I choose to relax.

It's mad when you think about it.
People are completely baffled that someone could strongly dislike this grim, plodding, ultra violent, piece of "entertainment".

As if there is only one way for video games to be and if you hate this wannabe HBO, try hard, over the top, crap then you must just be a troll and not someone who just isn't into that kind of thing.

Weird how violence is just the default and anything else is "kiddy games" and its inconceivable that someone could look at TLOU2 and think "nah not my kind of thing".

Oh wow another dark, zombie, apocalypse story... wooooooah... a revenge plot too? Oh my god this is cutting edge story telling. You'll be telling me there's plot twists and shocking deaths next.

How could anyone possibly not think it's the greatest story ever told?

 

[DForce]

Saying people are nitpicking to try and hate a game when you have tons of people on this forum with very well thought out posts on why they don't like it is not nitpicking by the community. Like you said, bad is subjective but a majority, not all, of people that do not like it have backed up their claims to why they don't like it.

Trying to say other small things can be found in other games people are nitpicking, is in itself, a nitpick. Thats like the Marvel VS DC movie debate. If you have to start looking at other content in the media and try to draw conclusions based on how people have received other content that isnt directly connected to the original you are really not arguing the content itself anymore.

Here's an example:


"Joel is acting completely out of character! He would never trust complete strangers! It's just lazy writing!"


Joel never trusted them. Joel and Tommy were forced to retreat while being chased by a horde of infected. Joel and Tommy didn't know how many old or how many friends traveled with Abby, just like Joel didn't know anything about Henry's friends when Joel agreed to follow them.

Jackson was hours away and they said the horses cannot make. This in fact true since horses cannot gallop\run for more than 2 miles without getting tired. Abby, Joel and Tommy couldn't fend off a horde of infected without help, this is one of the reasons why they decided to follow Abby because they needed more help in a familiar location.

As confirmed by Neil, Joel and Tommy didn't trust them. The way Joel was responding to questions proves this.


Then you have people claiming that it was mere luck that Abby found Joel and Tommy, even though Abby found out about Joel's brother from an ex-firefly that was picked up at a gate of Jackson months before arriving in Jackson. Owen scouted the area and found two people patrolling the ski-resort, which happened to be Joel and Tommy.

When you're in a situation where you're out numbered the best thing for you to do is to act friendly. That's exactly what Joel and Tommy did. Not giving up their names wouldn't matter because Abby knew about Tommy before arriving to Jackson, she just didn't know who Joel was. If in fact the fight scene dialog is cannon, then Abby knew she was with Tommy's brother while fighting the horde because Joel shouted his bother's name.



These are few little details that people miss because they're too busy complaining.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

It's a character-driven game packed with many unlikeable characters who make decisions that don't make sense.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Here's an example:


"Joel is acting completely out of character! He would never trust complete strangers! It's just lazy writing!"


Joel never trusted them. Joel and Tommy were forced to retreat while being chased by a horde of infected. Joel and Tommy didn't know how many old or how many friends traveled with Abby, just like Joel didn't know anything about Henry's friends when Joel agreed to follow them.

Jackson was hours away and they said the horses cannot make. This in fact true since horses cannot gallop\run for more than 2 miles without getting tired. Abby, Joel and Tommy couldn't fend off a horde of infected without help, this is one of the reasons why they decided to follow Abby because they needed more help in a familiar location.

As confirmed by Neil, Joel and Tommy didn't trust them. The way Joel was responding to questions proves this.


Then you have people claiming that it was mere luck that Abby found Joel and Tommy, even though Abby found out about Joel's brother from an ex-firefly that was picked up at a gate of Jackson months before arriving in Jackson. Owen scouted the area and found two people patrolling the ski-resort, which happened to be Joel and Tommy.

When you're in a situation where you're out numbered the best thing for you to do is to act friendly. That's exactly what Joel and Tommy did. Not giving up their names wouldn't matter because Abby knew about Tommy before arriving to Jackson, she just didn't know who Joel was. If in fact the fight scene dialog is cannon, then Abby knew she was with Tommy's brother while fighting the horde because Joel shouted his bother's name.



These are few little details that people miss because they're too busy complaining.

OK we get it Dforce. TLoU2 has Academy Award scripts.

 

[Represent.]

They have no concept of "theres levels to this shit". The game is masterfully crafted in all departments.

They have no concept of true greatness in the medium.
They think dark = bad.

It's mad when you think about it.
People are completely baffled that someone could strongly dislike this grim, plodding, ultra violent, piece of "entertainment".

As if there is only one way for video games to be and if you hate this wannabe HBO, try hard, over the top, crap then you must just be a troll and not someone who just isn't into that kind of thing.

Exhibit A for the bolded

Dark = bad.

People coming at me like I made a troll post but I can literally post an example for every point I made in this thread alone

 

[EruditeHobo]

The game is everything a sequel should be.
It is a must to play even if you get down due violence.

If only it were that simple.

People disagree about how good The Godfather is... people disagree about how good Breath of the Wild and The Witcher 3 are. People disagree about how good The Last of Us 1 is! This is just what people do. Different kinds of flaws will affect people in different ways, and since nothing's perfect, not The Godfather, not The Witcher 3, not The Last of Us 2, not The Last of Us 1... everyone will disagree on something, at some point. What matters are your reasons for not liking something, and how you engage in the debate about the inherent quality of something.

Nit-picking plots has never been a strong argument, narrative art is about the overall experience, not 100% fealty to a particular perception of reality or character. Super fine plot points are at times insignificant to a narrative overall, people can drastically change over time and act very irrationally but sometimes people expect characters to not do that. All that matters is the story/experience to which these fine points are in service. That's not just true of plot, it's true of visuals, it's true of gameplay mechanics, it's true of lots of things.

Whether a person can demonstrate they are engaging with a story on its level, on what it's actually trying to accomplish and communicate to the audience, is much more valuable than being able to drum up the most "flaws". It's the difference between a person actually communicating in a debate vs just waiting to talk and getting their points out as quickly and forcefully as possible, to try to "win". Listening to the other person's POV, finding common ground, agreeing to disagree when necessary... that's much different than trying to score points as often as possible, interrupting, being selective and misrepresenting in order to "win".

That's the kind of thing that happens when people aren't actually engaging with a story they've experienced on the level the story is operating. It happens all the time, and it's not at all unique to The Last of Us 2. This is just a particularly charged recent example, for a number of reasons.

I think the game is incredible, but not without issues. All games have issues. I'm open to lots of arguments about how the game is "bad" in a definitive overall sense, but I've never actually seen one in the wild. Mostly I've seen really trumped-up charges in this regard... issues, which definitely exist, are really exaggerated and classified as "game-breaking" in terms of quality. It's just not compelling to me.

 

[sackings]

its woke nonsense with mediocre gameplay. Which is also what I would say to describe most western games these days. Virtue signalling stories with gameplay the depth of a puddle

 

[TheMay30thMan]

Also, I just wanted to point out that praise for the first game was only popular in the “Controversial Gaming Opinions Thread” not too long ago. The fact that Part II receives a large amount of criticism on Neogaf should be a surprise to no one.

 

[lachesis]

I'm awaiting for the price to hit about $9.99 or less (Preferably $4.99), with PS5 enhancement/paches if there's going to be any.
I already know the whole story (which was pretty unintentional accident)... so I'm not in a big hurry of playing this game.

Sony's mainstream blockbuster games are something that I pretty much always hold off from getting it day 1 - because they are plentiful, and they are bound to be around for a long, long time, and the price always go down quite deep.

And... I don't mind playing older games - a good game is always a good game, no matter its generation - and lucky for me, that ND and most of Sony 1st party games are single player focused ones... so it works out for me pretty well.

 

[Kerlurk]

Gaming Discussion

Video game news, industry analysis, sales figures, deals, impressions, reviews, and discussions of everything in the medium, covering all platforms, genres, and territories.

www.neogaf.com

 

[Nikana]

Here's an example:


"Joel is acting completely out of character! He would never trust complete strangers! It's just lazy writing!"


Joel never trusted them. Joel and Tommy were forced to retreat while being chased by a horde of infected. Joel and Tommy didn't know how many old or how many friends traveled with Abby, just like Joel didn't know anything about Henry's friends when Joel agreed to follow them.

Jackson was hours away and they said the horses cannot make. This in fact true since horses cannot gallop\run for more than 2 miles without getting tired. Abby, Joel and Tommy couldn't fend off a horde of infected without help, this is one of the reasons why they decided to follow Abby because they needed more help in a familiar location.

As confirmed by Neil, Joel and Tommy didn't trust them. The way Joel was responding to questions proves this.


Then you have people claiming that it was mere luck that Abby found Joel and Tommy, even though Abby found out about Joel's brother from an ex-firefly that was picked up at a gate of Jackson months before arriving in Jackson. Owen scouted the area and found two people patrolling the ski-resort, which happened to be Joel and Tommy.

When you're in a situation where you're out numbered the best thing for you to do is to act friendly. That's exactly what Joel and Tommy did. Not giving up their names wouldn't matter because Abby knew about Tommy before arriving to Jackson, she just didn't know who Joel was. If in fact the fight scene dialog is cannon, then Abby knew she was with Tommy's brother while fighting the horde because Joel shouted his bother's name.



These are few little details that people miss because they're too busy complaining.

I actually dont have an issue with that scene of the circumstances that lead Abby to Joel, but again, you are looking at one person and trying to claim that everyone that has an issue with the game is just missing the details and complaining.

While the original argument of "hes acting out of character" is a bit too bland I have seen valid arguments, imo, about having to paint a picture that requires so many little details to make sense.

A good story isn't defined by its ability to have every minor detail connect to one another in attempt to make sense. In fact, its the opinion of many, many writers that are highly regarded that an overly complex plot filled with details is one of the most common mistakes made by writers. THe life of the story is not in the details, its in the characters delivery of important details. Obvioulsy this is debatable but this is the take of many people who have issues with the scene in question.

The scene in question I think is a clear example of the overly complex plot. Due to the fact that you had to put Joel in such a place by having to explain horses get tired after 2 miles and having to have the writer himself confirm the feeling of a character, etc, is an example of the plot being over written.

The meat of the story that everybody wants is in TLOU II but to get to it you have to work for it and it can easily be lost. Something that was not an issue for many in the first game.

 

[Saruhashi]

Exhibit A for the bolded

Dark = bad.

People coming at me like I made a troll post but I can literally post an example for every point I made in this thread alone

It's a matter of taste though.

If someone thinks "dark" is bad then it's bad for them and that's all there is to it. The end.

How out of touch with reality do you have to be to find yourself unable to understand that some people don't like specific things?

Its not different to people who don't like Sci fi or fantasy. There's nothing worng with them. They just don't like what others like. There might be something wrong with your perspective if you can't grasp that basic fact.

I love the way some of you lads think you can find a way to use logic to get absolutely everyone to agree that the game is good. Like if you just explain hard enough people will have to accept that to not like it is to be wrong.

 

[DForce]

Of course they're not going to make it that obvious.

Never mind that all the other male characters in the game were not even worth having around.

Can't wait for Nathan's Drake's replacement to come along, and he just happened to have a daughter.

Yeah, just me ranting with my crazy political theories.

You're just on the other side of the political spectrum.

We know which side is raging over transphobia content in Cyberpunk 2077.

A man gets killed and that automatically means ND wanted to get rid of a white male character, but we see two other white male characters in Owen and Tommy play very important roles in the story who weren't being portrayed as evil. The only thing Owen was guilty of is having feelings for Abby while having a baby with Mel.

The fact that it bothers people this much to see female characters in a game is just insane.

20 years ago, people wouldn't be bothered by stuff like this, but now people can't help but just complain. lol

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I actually dont have an issue with that scene of the circumstances that lead Abby to Joel, but again, you are looking at one person and trying to claim that everyone that has an issue with the game is just missing the details and complaining.

While the original argument of "hes acting out of character" is a bit too bland I have seen valid arguments, imo, about having to paint a picture that requires so many little details to make sense.

A good story isn't defined by its ability to have every minor detail connect to one another in attempt to make sense. In fact, its the opinion of many, many writers that are highly regarded that an overly complex plot filled with details is one of the most common mistakes made by writers. THe life of the story is not in the details, its in the characters delivery of important details. Obvioulsy this is debatable but this is the take of many people who have issues with the scene in question.

The scene in question I think is a clear example of the overly complex plot. Due to the fact that you had to put Joel in such a place by having to explain horses get tired after 2 miles and having to have the writer himself confirm the feeling of a character, etc, is an example of the plot being over written.

The meat of the story that everybody wants is in TLOU II but to get to it you have to work for it and it can easily be lost. Something that was not an issue for many in the first game.

It was a dumb scene to begin with.

Everyone pointed out how implausible a survival vet like Joel would spill the beans with random thugs and walk into the middle of a living room so he could get surrounded by them.

But ND did that because the writing is so bad (not surprising since video game writing and dialogue is some reason bad across the industry, even though you could have random no name writers releasing a book on Amazon with a better script), but they needed to do something to move the plot along.

 

[evanft]

Anybody that played the game (and it has the best completion rate of any game in PlayStation 4) can see:

• The revenge cycle theme is fantastic.
• The story is deep and keep you engaged to know what it will happen next.
• Characters are great with it own complications with amazing development (I can't find one to be bad).
• The gameplay is again flawless... it is perfection.
• The enemy variety is now way better.
• The weapons and craft items are way better than original.
• The world and environment are fantastic.
• Side activities are great.
• It humanizes all sides... it is impactful and emotionally driven.

The game is everything a sequel should be.
It is a must to play even if you get down due violence.

So I really can't understand the hate some GAFers has with one of the best games ever created.

PS. I really can't even understand the political controversy... I really can't see politics in the game... maybe because I'm not American? I don't know.

Edit - Making this thread just me miss even more Factions MP... I blamed ND for that and I will continue doing that because that decision was utter shit.

I'm aligned with pretty much everything in this post. The gameplay alone drew me in like no game in recent memory. So many games give you multiple tools to use, but you never end up using them cause they're either shit or a limited set of mechanics can be maxed out to break the game. Control is a perfect example of this. With TLOU2, though, I felt compelled to use everything at my disposal to get through the game.

 

[Saruhashi]

It's a character-driven game packed with many unlikeable characters who make decisions that don't make sense.

No. How dare you hold this opinion!

Now please read my essay about why you must be wrong...

 

[Nikana]

It was a dumb scene to begin with.

Everyone pointed out how implausible a survival vet like Joel would spill the beans with random thugs and walk into the middle of a living room so he could get surrounded by them.

But ND did that because the writing is so bad (not surprising since video game writing and dialogue is some reason bad across the industry, even though you could have random no name writers releasing a book on Amazon with a better script), but they needed to do something to move the plot along.

It doesn't bother me but I dont think its particular well written either. In the context of entire narrative I think its serves its purpose but its not well written.

 

[Hugare]

I loved it, and I really want to replay it

But I can't, man. Because the pacing sucks soooo bad. Will have to wait some months.

I've replayed TLOU 7 or 8 times across the PS3-PS5, no joke. One time right after finishing it for the first time.

But something is lost once you experienced TLOU Part 2 for the first time.

Also, it's kind of a "heavy" game due to its themes. The first game is dark, but its also a story of bonding, hope, love and all that.

The bonding between Ellie and Joel brought an amazing contrast to the depressing world of the game

But there's nothing like that in TLOU 2. It's just depressing.

So it's like watching a movie like The Pianist. Beautiful, but long and depressing, that I dont feel like rewatching again anytime soon.

 

[Jon Neu]

People didn’t like one of the most beloved characters of last generation (perhaps all time gaming) being used as a simple plot device.

The game, from a narrative stand point, is a complete amateurish mess. But this one it's probably it's greatest sin when it comes to the backlash received.

And it's also a tremendous problem when the character you killed at the start of the game, it's the only truly charismatic and likeable character you have in that game.

 

[PropellerEar]

TLOU2 is the GOTG for me.
I don't care if it won a price of not

 

[DForce]

I actually dont have an issue with that scene of the circumstances that lead Abby to Joel, but again, you are looking at one person and trying to claim that everyone that has an issue with the game is just missing the details and complaining.

While the original argument of "hes acting out of character" is a bit too bland I have seen valid arguments, imo, about having to paint a picture that requires so many little details to make sense.

A good story isn't defined by its ability to have every minor detail connect to one another in attempt to make sense. In fact, its the opinion of many, many writers that are highly regarded that an overly complex plot filled with details is one of the most common mistakes made by writers. THe life of the story is not in the details, its in the characters delivery of important details. Obvioulsy this is debatable but this is the take of many people who have issues with the scene in question.

The scene in question I think is a clear example of the overly complex plot. Due to the fact that you had to put Joel in such a place by having to explain horses get tired after 2 miles and having to have the writer himself confirm the feeling of a character, etc, is an example of the plot being over written.

The meat of the story that everybody wants is in TLOU II but to get to it you have to work for it and it can easily be lost. Something that was not an issue for many in the first game.

TLOU 1 was easier to understand because it was a simple story.

The only difficult thing about TLOU 2 was to ask why Ellie would let Abby go at the end.

Knowing every small detail isn't required to understand the story, it's for people who want to say it's lazy writing when things were considered before writing the scene.

Due to the fact that you had to put Joel in such a place by having to explain horses get tired after 2 miles and having to have the writer himself confirm the feeling of a character, etc, is an example of the plot being over written.

This makes absolutely no sense.

These things shouldn't need to be explained because it should be obvious.

"Horses don't make it" is all the explanation it needs, but of course, it's not as easy for some people and they just completely overlook this point.

People missed several instances in this story that finding Joel was not found in the middle of no where when Abby and her friends were pinpointing his location. You only make these claims if you're ignoring the story.

 

[Kerlurk]

Gaming Discussion

Video game news, industry analysis, sales figures, deals, impressions, reviews, and discussions of everything in the medium, covering all platforms, genres, and territories.

www.neogaf.com

 

[Amiga]

So I really can't understand the hate some GAFers has with one of the best games ever created.

PS. I really can't even understand the political controversy... I really can't see politics in the game... maybe because I'm not American? I don't know.

1- its mainly this answer..

The basic structure of the narrative is incompetent and amateurish at a fundamental level.

2- also add to that the false advertising to hide the predictable plot. it ended up being what most expected after the ending of the 1st game.

3- failure in delivery. nothing shown in the Abby arc made us empathise, actually made her look worse.

4- director made it personal. instead of just taking the criticism in stride and letting people debate. he goes and attacks fans and signals to his media friends to corner and cancel dissenting reviewers.


as for politics there have been activist creators since forever, their work can still be appreciated by opponents. I love the song "imagine" but refuse a world without countries, religion or possessions. Drukerman is just a phony that got exposed after Bruce Straley left.

 

[Chiggs]

1. The revenge cycle theme is fantastic.
2. The story is deep and keep you engaged to know what it will happen next.
3. Characters are great with it own complications with amazing development (I can't find one to be bad).
4. The gameplay is again flawless... it is perfection.
5. The enemy variety is now way better.
6. The weapons and craft items are way better than original.
7. The world and environment are fantastic.
8. Side activities are great.
9. It humanizes all sides... it is impactful and emotionally driven.

1. No.
2. No.
3. Hit and miss.
4. It's redundant and stale.
5. Agreed.
6. Agreed.
7. Agreed.
8. They only seem great because the story is a slog.
9. It's ham-fisted crap.

 

[Arthimura]

People who hates TLOU2 for political reasons are an Anita Sarkeesian with inverted sign.

The same way it is annoying when Anita says video-games can't have sexualized characters, it is annoying people who thinks video-games can't have lesbians and marijuana.