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[WhispersintheWind]

Ok, so the end result will be the same for both consoles.? Then, Sony's mark cerny fucked up big time. LoL

No the result will not be the same. Because PS5 has more channels and Bandwidth. Hardware you process the decompression and fill memory faster because of the higher bandwidth. PS5 should with next Gen games load them faster.

It was more of explaining the design choices and solutions and how the work to reach end result.

While MS went with lower latency and smaller channels of with smaller bandwidth. Hard decompression and 20 MB cache for that.

In theory PS5 should load 3-6 seconds Xbox X/S 5-10 seconds. Another thing Xbox Series S should load faster then Xbox Series X in a lot of cases.

 

[yewles1]

Does anyone ever use these interpolation modes on their TVs? Well maybe your brother does, but I'm pretty sure he'll turn it off quickly

Otherwise I mean.. Why buy a really expensive high quality TV just to turn beautiful looking movies into looking like cheap soap operas? It's insane to me.

I did when I first got my Samsung QN32Q50R, but turned it off after it started glitching to produce a broken 30Hz refresh rate when left on too long.

 

[thurnishaleygw]

So I learned some interesting stuff from a dev. Apparently the Xbox Series X/S SSD is faster because it’s super low latency.It also has a hardware decompression block and 20mb of cache kinda like infinity cache for that purpose.Yet Xbox Series X/S has less channels and has lower data bandwidth. PS5’s SSD is low latency also but not as low as Xbox Series X/S. PS5 makes that up with more channel that have a higher bandwidth transferring Data assets from the SSD. PS5 I/O Decompression Can decompress data faster and larger bandwidth of Data. PS5 should be able to load memory faster and thus load games faster.

So, both are faster.

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

The Dualsense can play Doom, kind of...

 

[Metroiddarks]

So I learned some interesting stuff from a dev. Apparently the Xbox Series X/S SSD is faster because it’s super low latency.It also has a hardware decompression block and 20mb of cache kinda like infinity cache for that purpose.Yet Xbox Series X/S has less channels and has lower data bandwidth. PS5’s SSD is low latency also but not as low as Xbox Series X/S. PS5 makes that up with more channel that have a higher bandwidth transferring Data assets from the SSD. PS5 I/O Decompression Can decompress data faster and larger bandwidth of Data. PS5 should be able to load memory faster and thus load games faster.

Yeah I don't think so, first if you see which are titles we compare are BC so is probably Xbox is using the games download from
a server so first is probably they optimize some IO instructions or they already implement as common solution for Xbox one
titles and second if you see the delta of both in those BC titlesare very similar than the delta in pure brute force of each CPU
against the last gen.

This for me is more thing of how fast is each CPU (without SMT) and how much work put each company in their BC/crossgen
titles. If that was as you said even titles like Spiderman MM will have a similar delta as we have in current gen with Spiderman
like we saw in other games.

 

[reksveks]

We know that WD:Legion has a dodgy XSX build/patch now, anyone seen any legitimate PS5 examples yet?

 

[Ar¢tos]

I'm ready for Thursday

The charging station comes with an USB to USB cable or an AC plug?

 

[MasterCornholio]

So I learned some interesting stuff from a dev. Apparently the Xbox Series X/S SSD is faster because it’s super low latency.It also has a hardware decompression block and 20mb of cache kinda like infinity cache for that purpose.Yet Xbox Series X/S has less channels and has lower data bandwidth. PS5’s SSD is low latency also but not as low as Xbox Series X/S. PS5 makes that up with more channel that have a higher bandwidth transferring Data assets from the SSD. PS5 I/O Decompression Can decompress data faster and larger bandwidth of Data. PS5 should be able to load memory faster and thus load games faster.

What do you mean the PS5 doesn't have s hardware decompressor?

 

[SSfox]

The importance of only installing parts of a game that youre going to play e.g. campaign, multiplayer is going to be really important this gen

Very much This.

 

[WhispersintheWind]

What do you mean the PS5 doesn't have s hardware decompressor?

No where did I say that. I mentioned the I/O decompression. Also the fact it decompress more bandwidth of data also.

 

[Yoboman]

So I learned some interesting stuff from a dev. Apparently the Xbox Series X/S SSD is faster because it’s super low latency.It also has a hardware decompression block and 20mb of cache kinda like infinity cache for that purpose.Yet Xbox Series X/S has less channels and has lower data bandwidth. PS5’s SSD is low latency also but not as low as Xbox Series X/S. PS5 makes that up with more channel that have a higher bandwidth transferring Data assets from the SSD. PS5 I/O Decompression Can decompress data faster and larger bandwidth of Data. PS5 should be able to load memory faster and thus load games faster.

Oh great another "insider".

 

[Rea]

"All of the game logic created for Jaguar CPUs works properly on Zen 2 CPUs, but the timing of execution of instructions can be substantially different," Mark Cerny tells us. "We worked to AMD to customise our particular Zen 2 cores; they have modes in which they can more closely approximate Jaguar timing. We're keeping that in our back pocket, so to speak, as we proceed with the backwards compatibility work."

Ps5 BC mode is not using full power of zen2 cpu, it's using the Jaguar mode for compatibility reason, but Xbox's BC mode is using full power of zen 2 cpu, remember Microsoft said all their BC games will used full power of CPU and GPU of series x. That's one of the reason for slower loading on ps5 for BC games. Nothing to do with I/O. New gen games like Spider-Man MM built from the ground up for PS5 load less than 2 secs.

Edit: Ps5 maybe update it's BC mode via firmware update to take full advantage of the hardware, so it may improve the performance.

 

[Metroiddarks]

I want to know how each of the next titles compare its console version against PC settings, the reason is
simple, we still in the phase of crossgen so doesn´t exists many time of even reasons to use new features
which exists in the console hardware (of course also in RTX 3000-2000).

Dirt 5 with a RTX 3090 barely reach 60fps in 4k.

Spoiler

Watch Dogs Legion RTX 3090 to 4k with RT and without DLSS barely 30fps.

Spoiler

Assassins Creed Valhalla RTX 3090 to 4k barely 60fps.

Spoiler

 

[MasterCornholio]

No where did I say that. I mentioned the I/O decompression. Also the fact it decompress more bandwidth of data also.

But you called it a decompression block with the X/S. I believe the PS5 also has a decompression block as well. Unless I got what a decompression block is wrong.

 

[WhispersintheWind]

But you called it a decompression block with the X/S. I believe the PS5 also has a decompression block as well. Unless I got what a decompression block is wrong.

Because I was to tired to try to spell Kraken. So I described it as I/O decompression.

 

[WhispersintheWind]

"All of the game logic created for Jaguar CPUs works properly on Zen 2 CPUs, but the timing of execution of instructions can be substantially different," Mark Cerny tells us. "We worked to AMD to customise our particular Zen 2 cores; they have modes in which they can more closely approximate Jaguar timing. We're keeping that in our back pocket, so to speak, as we proceed with the backwards compatibility work."

Ps5 BC mode is not using full power of zen2 cpu, it's using the Jaguar mode for compatibility reason, but Xbox's BC mode is using full power of zen 2 cpu, remember Microsoft said all their BC games will used full power of CPU and GPU of series x. That's one of the reason for slower loading on ps5 for BC games. Nothing to do with I/O. New gen games like Spider-Man MM built from the ground up for PS5 load less than 2 secs.

Edit: Ps5 maybe update it's BC mode via firmware update to take full advantage of the hardware, so it may improve the performance.

Your right for the most Part on PS5 BC but I think the GPU also has Profile in BC to emulate PS4 Pro. So it throttles the GPU down. If I’m not mistaken. Sorry I keep dozing in and out...

 

[MasterCornholio]

Because I was to tired to try to spell Kraken. So I described it as I/O decompression.

Ok so I'm not wrong with both having decompression blocks. Just wanted to clarify that.

 

[sinnergy]

That’s because MS does virtualization, stuff they do for very long. It’s a software company after all , so decades of knowledge about stuff like that. It’s also much smarter as you can easily update software .

 

[MistBreeze]

Launch games

digital or physical???

download?? Or put disk and play as soon as the console arrive???

tough decision

 

[Imtjnotu]

The charging station comes with an USB to USB cable or an AC plug?

I wish it was usb-c but it's an actually ac cable to a small power brick then to the charging station

 

[Imtjnotu]

Launch games

digital or physical???

download?? Or put disk and play as soon as the console arrive???

tough decision

I'm stuck here. For some reason my miles morales copy got delayed until the 18th by Amazon which means I'm going to have to Digital it, which makes me want to Digital them all

 

[MasterCornholio]

MS has talked about their Hardware decompression and how it massively reduces CPU load. This was known in the initial spec reveal in fact.

I believe they said they only use 1/10th of a CPU core for the I/O while in Sonys case everything is handled in the I/O complex.

As for hardware decompression both of them have it.

 

[MistBreeze]

I'm stuck here. For some reason my miles morales copy got delayed until the 18th by Amazon which means I'm going to have to Digital it, which makes me want to Digital them all

Digital is convenient but pop and play is faster

 

[MasterCornholio]

What's your point? So, the slower ssd beats faster raw speed ssd just because lower latency? Or are they the same performance? When talking about latency wise, ps5 should have lower, because of additional silicons which offload cpu's overhead thus reduce latency. If xbox should have the same why don't they talk about them, it's not like Microsoft to keep silent about their hardware.

Long story short PS5s I/O is faster and easier to use. That's the end result.

 

[On Demand]

People also need to remember backwards compatibility games on PS5 and SX are based on their Pro and 1X versions. 1X should have already loaded games faster than Pro.

 

[Jemm]

Digital is convenient but pop and play is faster

I have pre-downloaded some games to external SSD, so it will save some time.

However, they will have day one and/or XSX patches, so they need to be downloaded, anyway. This applies to physical copies, too.

With physical, it needs to be installed first from a disc, before applying the inevitable patch.

So, in my case, the digital is faster, since the base copy is already installed on an external SSD. It needs to be copied to the internal SSD first, but that happens faster than from a disc.

 

[Rea]

Your right for the most Part on PS5 BC but I think the GPU also has Profile in BC to emulate PS4 Pro. So it throttles the GPU down. If I’m not mistaken. Sorry I keep dozing in and out...

That's what was happened to AC unity in DF video, but for the most games ps5 gpu using boost mode to increase framerates.

 

[geordiemp]

No where did I say that. I mentioned the I/O decompression. Also the fact it decompress more bandwidth of data also.

I dont think so, 6 vs 22 is not more, but its no big deal, we will see load times in games soon enough this week.

Loading levels and fast travel where cards or quick resume cannot hide, and we can look for pop in.

BC where ps5 has a different IO system to ps4, different file structure, and kraken decompressor where some games are using CPU with SMT enabled to decompresss Zlib is another story - and we dont even know if CPU and GPU are boosted clocks when loading ps4 games so.....

 

[BGs]

Comparing the execution and the loads of the respective BCs to draw a conclusion about the comparative power or speed of these consoles does not make much sense and is a capital error.

On the other hand, that XSX loads some previous generation multiplatform games before due to certain differences between the different BC systems used on each platform does not mean that this will be the same for nextgen games, which is what these consoles were really created for.

 

[Jemm]

Loading levels and fast travel where cards or quick resume cannot hide, and we can look for pop in.

I'm curious how pop-ins can be eliminated completely. (On any platform - no wars here)

Does it mean infinite drawing distance with all the objects in memory already? Or long enough, before eyes can see them appearing, when moving forward (streaming just in time)? Isn't it mostly a memory issue?

 

[geordiemp]

I'm curious how pop-ins can be eliminated completely. (On any platform - no wars here)

Does it mean infinite drawing distance with all the objects in memory already? Or long enough, before eyes can see them appearing, when moving forward (streaming just in time)? Isn't it mostly a memory issue?

They are not, if you read Goosen explanation SFS blends in the new data when it arrives late, its a less severe pop in or smoother is the idea but it does not magically go away if the texture is late. Goosen :

Bespoke hardware within the GPU is available to smooth the transition between mips, on the off-chance that the higher quality texture arrives a frame or two later

Being late may help streaming latency a little at the start, but the texture is still late and playing catchup

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

About WD Legion's RT on consoles. So Insomniac was right about their industry leading RT in consoles. But before anyone gets triggered, as John says, it's most likely due to Ubisoft's efforts rather than the hardware itself.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Comparing the execution and the loads of the respective BCs to draw a conclusion about the comparative power or speed of these consoles does not make much sense and is a capital error.

On the other hand, that XSX loads some previous generation multiplatform games before due to certain differences between the different BC systems used on each platform does not mean that this will be the same for nextgen games, which is what they have really been made for these consoles.

Well said, we must also remember that the SSD's on both consoles serve a number of purposes which go beyond just "loading times".

As Mark Cerny said, the primary reason for an SSD was that it allows game developers "freedom" in designing the games. Although what I find most exciting about the PS5's SSD is it's streaming. The high bandwidth of the SSD allows 4 GB of compressed data to be loaded within 0.5 seconds, this means that significantly more detail/geometry/textures can be loaded into the players field of view (FOV) and the SSD is fast enough it allows the data be swapped in and out as the camera and character are moving and turning, this goes back to Mark Cerny's comments about how the RAM is working on the games behalf as well as it holding the next 1-2 seconds of gameplay data. This will depend of course on if developers want to push it to such a potential, I believe we'll see some really jaw dropping first party games in the second and third wave of the PS5.

 

[geordiemp]

About WD Legion's RT on consoles. So Insomniac was right about their industry leading RT in consoles. But before anyone gets triggered, as John says, it's most likely due to Ubisoft's efforts rather than the hardware itself.

Yes, there is a large gulf at the moment, watchdogs XSX

 

[Yoboman]

Yes, there is a large gulf at the moment, watchdogs XSX

To be fair the whole game looks like a low res cube map

 

[Insane Metal]

Well... It's Ubisoft. If anyone really expected a game by them to rival a first party title..........

Also kinda funny that the weaker console has the industry leading Ray Tracing technique at launch.

 

[Insane Metal]

Like I said a million times. RT is expensive.

Ps: John agrees with him in the following tweet.

 

[reksveks]

Newer build out today so not alot of time for comparison videos

 

[user1337]

I'm stuck here. For some reason my miles morales copy got delayed until the 18th by Amazon which means I'm going to have to Digital it, which makes me want to Digital them all

1 - how fast is your connection?
2- the whole idea of switching games quickly looses its meaning if using discs

 

[yewles1]

Like I said a million times. RT is expensive.

Ps: John agrees with him in the following tweet.

It's going to be sub-native for years all around on ALL platforms--whether Alex wants to accept it or not.

 

[mejin]

Well... It's Ubisoft. If anyone really expected a game by them to rival a first party title..........

Also kinda funny that the weaker console has the industry leading Ray Tracing technique at launch.

Plus, it was not Sony who was pushing the attention whore agenda about RT or hardware mimimi every single second.

Silence doesn't mean weakness.

 

[timmyp53]

Like I said a million times. RT is expensive.

Ps: John agrees with him in the following tweet.

This is just obvious but instead we have this ridiculous fake RT narrative for consoles that is baffling.

Personally seeing hypocritical 3080/3090 owners complain about performance for RT when the obvious answer is simple graphic tuning.

 

[Rea]

To be fair the whole game looks like a low res cube map

Watchdogs looks shit, lighting looks flat, animation looks like robot, and even with RT running on most powerful GPU currently available. Compare to Spider-Man MM with RT native 4k@30fps, high quality textures dynamic lighting, good animation, it's looks night and day difference. Not to mention its a cross gen game. Insomniac is on another different level.

 

[FunkMiller]

I’m very much looking forward to seeing all the Sony first party exclusive games going forward into the next couple of years.

I have a feeling that the gulf of quality between them and everything else is going to be wider than ever this generation.

 

[TrebleShot]

Watchdogs looks shit, lighting looks flat, animation looks like robot, and even with RT running on most powerful GPU currently available. Compare to Spider-Man MM with RT native 4k@30fps, high quality textures dynamic lighting, good animation, it's looks night and day difference. Not to mention its a cross gen game. Insomniac is on another different level.

To be completely fair, and I do agree with you.

Optimising for 8 platforms will cause some sort of loss in quality somewhere.

 

[Yoboman]

To be completely fair, and I do agree with you.

Optimising for 8 platforms will cause some sort of loss in quality somewhere.

They seem to be hitting a wall right now, whether it's their engines or just being cross gen

But their cross gen games to start this gen weren't exactly big lookers. I'm sure they'll catch up in a year or two but they really should be nobody's benchmark right now

 

[Hashi]

Well said, we must also remember that the SSD's on both consoles serve a number of purposes which go beyond just "loading times".

As Mark Cerny said, the primary reason for an SSD was that it allows game developers "freedom" in designing the games. Although what I find most exciting about the PS5's SSD is it's streaming. The high bandwidth of the SSD allows 4 GB of compressed data to be loaded within 0.5 seconds, this means that significantly more detail/geometry/textures can be loaded into the players field of view (FOV) and the SSD is fast enough it allows the data be swapped in and out as the camera and character are moving and turning, this goes back to Mark Cerny's comments about how the RAM is working on the games behalf as well as it holding the next 1-2 seconds of gameplay data. This will depend of course on if developers want to push it to such a potential, I believe we'll see some really jaw dropping first party games in the second and third wave of the PS5.

True

 

[Vtecomega]

Still nothing on a bloodborne or killzone 2 remaster?

 

[renx]

It's going to be sub-native for years all around on ALL platforms--whether Alex wants to accept it or not.

This

It's like consoles having 5% of the hardware needed for full path tracing, and the RTX3080 having 7% of what's needed, and I think I'm being optimistic.

But I think we will be shocked with whatever Naughty Dog and Santa Monica are prepping. Those guys will "elevate" gaming graphics to the next level.

 

[Snowdonhoffen]