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H

hariseldon

Unconfirmed Member
Can someone explain to me why Sunshine is considered a lesser game in the Mario franchise? This is the second time I've played through it and both times I came away feeling like it improved upon Mario 64 in almost every way possible. Playing the two games back to back reinforces my opinion that much further.

For me, the whole spraying stuff mechanic is just a bit rubbish - that's not platforming, and the controls for it are terrible.
 

Evangelion Unit-01

Master Chief
I posted the below in that Nintendo Switch thread:

“When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” - C.S. Lewis

One of my favorites, encapsulates the way I feel about Nintendo games and mirrors my own life as well. As I've grown older I've moved past my childish perspectives and preconceptions.
 
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Humdinger

Member
The responses to the poll I posted are mostly positive so far. The ratio of positive to negative is about 2.7 to 1 (based on the voting). That's pretty good. Sure, you've got a decent proportion of people who just aren't happy with what Nintendo offers. That's fine. It's true of any console. I haven't seen any outright trolling or hate, unless you count the guy who said the games are for people under the age of 10, which is one of those "so stupid it's funny" comments.

Not that I care all that much what other people think. I have always just played what I like. I was just curious what the general attitude on GAF was. Seems fairly positive, at least in the context of the poll. I know a lot of you have had different experiences, though.
 
Since we are celebrating Mario this year, has anyone else gone back to the earlier mainline platformers? I’ve been playing through most that are available on Switch) in release order. Here are my thoughts on what I’ve played so far - let me know what you think of the games and my takes!

Super Mario Bros
Classic, and somehow still fun to this day. Not a great game by today’s standards but does a great job of what it tries to be. Hit detection is brutal if you aren’t previously familiar with Mario’s square hit box. Probably one of the most important games of all time and worth playing even if it’s only through the first few worlds.

Super Mario Bros: The Lost Levels
Actual sadism by Nintendo themselves. They said it was too difficult for the USA, and they were right. The entire game is one big troll and honestly not much fun because it’s obtuse for the sake of itself. Fun preview of Super Mario Maker. If this was more modern and in the style of Celeste or Super Meat Boy, this might be a good game

Super Mario Bros 2
And now for something completely different! Wow, I actually played this one for the first time in GBA when I was a kid and didn’t think much but what a departure from the Mario we all know and love. I guess it makes sense since it’s a completely different game lol. I did not have too much fun with this. It’s barely a platformer and my biggest gripe is there is so much wasted potential and wasted space in this game. Too much unnecessary paths and too sandy throughout. Im really glad this is not the direction the franchise went. However I appreciate some of the environments and enemies it brought to the series.

Super Mario Bros 3
Some hail this as the greatest Mario game of all time, or at least the best 2D Mario game. I played parts of this as a kid but not the whole thing. Going back to it now, I really appreciate this as a landmark game and probably the most influential Mario game aside from the original. It really decided the direction of the franchise with the overworld map, varied environments, tons of power ups, bosses, and secret exits. After The Lost Levels and SMB2, I am thankful for this to swoop in and save the day. However, I have to disagree here on how well it has aged. It looks and plays pretty rough - like a NES game. You can tell the game’s ambition is there and there just wasn’t enough to build on before SMB3. I appreciate this game but I just don’t love it.

Super Mario World
This is the quintessential 2D Mario game to me. I absolutely love this game, it builds upon SMB3 but it’s execution is so well done that it holds up in 2020 - it feels as if the game hasn’t aged a day. A new interconnected world, Ghost houses, Star Road, varied bosses, marked secret exits, yoshi, and tight controls make this game stand out from the other entries. A big complaint of mine about SMB3 is how the map was kind of pointless since you still beat a level and move on, SMW encourages exploration like no platformer did before and you could play levels over and over again looking for secret exits and other spots of interest. This focus on discovery and exploration mixed with Dinosaur Land really made this game hit home with me, it’s easily my favorite 2D Mario game.

Super Mario 3D Land
Ok so this isn’t on Switch, but it should be. I was playing this one earlier in the year and probably halfway done (or so I thought) when all the Mario announcements started happening. I ended up going back and completing this before the other games I’ve commented on, and I have to say it’s either my favorite or second favorite (behind SMW) of the Mario platformers I’ve played so far. This game hits a near perfect balance of platforming focus and exploration. The stages at first feel a bit cramped and I questioned why bother with 3D if you’re going to make such linear 2D like levels. But as you progress Nintendo has found clever ways to hide secrets in plain sight and challenge you with some crazy sequences. The game has been fine tuned in ways the exploration focused ones haven’t. It turns out this mix is fantastic and it will put the spotlight on some challenging star coins, daring you to execute while at other times in the same level the game has you backtrack or explore to find something hidden without being completely obscure. I think what I like about this one is there are almost no obtuse or obscure secrets like some of the ones in SMW. Finally there is the whole second half of this game that is a joy. The only thing I don’t like here is the forced 3D perspectives in a few levels but that is forgiveable considering the rest of the package.

New Super Mario Bros U Deluxe
I played this last year and might revisit this one. I actually found this one pretty generic and didn’t have a ton of fun playing it. Maybe it’s the art style and music that was off? I’m not the biggest 2D Mario fan aside from World, but still felt this was lacking. Is it just me or was the magic not there? I hope that revisiting this entry will cast it in a different light.

To be played:
Super Mario World 2: Yoshi’s Island
Super Mario 64
Super Mario Sunshine
Super Mario Galaxy
Super Mario Galaxy 2
New Super Mario Bros U Deluxe???
Super Mario 3D World
Super Mario Odyssey (“speedrun” only)
Super Mario Maker 2?

You probably noticed I didn’t list some games like Land and New. I don’t own those and I will likely stick to the ones playable on Switch. Also yes I will probably burn out by doing this so I’ll probably take some breaks but I plan to finish this before the end of Nintendo’s celebration in March. That’s where you all come in! Would love to hear your takes on these.

Finally made it through SMW2 and figured I’d post my thoughts while they’re still fresh in my head before moving onward to SM64. If anyone else has played SMW2 let me know what you thought too.

Super Mario World 2: Yoshi’s Island
This one is very... different. Its focus is on exploration and light puzzle solving. As such it should be one of my top Mario games, but I only though this one was OK. It does a lot of things for the first time and I can see so much staple Mario content that made its debut here. The biggest problem I have with the game is the long meandering levels which are ultimately tedious to traverse and often feel pointless unless you are going for 100% completion (I only bothered for a couple levels). Each level feels like it takes ages to complete and for me it was pretty easy to get lost in some of them. It doesn’t help that they reuse the same few songs all game long (though that one song is sooo good). I wasn’t a fan of the controls either, especially egg throwing. However, this game absolutely nailed the boss fights - each one is fun and unique. Definitely worth a play to find out if you are in the camp that reveres this game above the others or who see it as that “other” SNES Mario platformer.


I’m very excited to be moving on to the 3D games! I’ve always loved 3D platformers a lot more than 2D. This will be my first time playing 64 since only completing a handful of levels during my childhood. I’m nearly going in blind, my only memories are Bob-omb Battlefield (the demo station in Toys R Us), how bad the camera was, and how Mario would literally slip and slide EVERYWHERE.

To be played:
Super Mario 64
Super Mario Sunshine
Super Mario Galaxy
Super Mario Galaxy 2
New Super Mario Bros U Deluxe???
Super Mario 3D World
Super Mario Odyssey (“speedrun” only)
Super Mario Maker 2?
 

DESTROYA

Member
A lot of Nintendo threads get trashed by trolls and console warriors and then we also have threads like this one:


Where it's basically an excuse to circle-jerk peoples Nintendo hate boners.

It's sometimes tiring being a Nintendo fan on here.

At least I have a lot of posts to lol at though.
What’s up fellow ten year olds :pie_eyeroll:
The Switch does get a bad rap for supposedly being a platform for kids but they just make fun games...fuck all the haters.
 
For me, the whole spraying stuff mechanic is just a bit rubbish - that's not platforming, and the controls for it are terrible.

I don't know why, but I've never struggled with the FLUDD controls. If anything the hover really helps make platforming more enjoyable and it allows for more variety with boss battles and objectives.

It's the complete opposite for me in Mario 64. Mario 64 is considered a very easy game and yet I've died dozens of times from the erratic camera, weird momentum when Mario moves, or jumps that don't seem to register the way you expect them to. It's a good game and has way more historic value than Sunshine, but Sunshine is the better experience for my tastes.
 

Jooxed

Gold Member
Still waiting for some fly honeys to play Switch with me on my rooftop.

Ive seen pics of -Arcadia- -Arcadia- trust me.. keep looking

oJHoBkq.png



....Just kidding please don't hurt me arcadia.
 
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-Arcadia-

Banned
Can someone explain to me why Sunshine is considered a lesser game in the Mario franchise? This is the second time I've played through it and both times I came away feeling like it improved upon Mario 64 in almost every way possible. Playing the two games back to back reinforces my opinion that much further.

I love that you feel that way, as I don't want you to feel the way I do. 😋

To me, while it is one of my favorites, it has a noticeable polish/quality reduction from the usual Mario/Zelda/Metroid standard, sometimes a drastic one, sometimes a subtle one. It feels much like Luigi's Mansion 1 or Pikmin 1 to me; a stellar, innovative game, but one that feels like it was rushed, or deprioritized, feeling more like a Nintendo 'B' game, rather than what they usually offer for Mario.

The responses to the poll I posted are mostly positive so far. The ratio of positive to negative is about 2.7 to 1 (based on the voting). That's pretty good. Sure, you've got a decent proportion of people who just aren't happy with what Nintendo offers. That's fine. It's true of any console. I haven't seen any outright trolling or hate, unless you count the guy who said the games are for people under the age of 10, which is one of those "so stupid it's funny" comments.

Not that I care all that much what other people think. I have always just played what I like. I was just curious what the general attitude on GAF was. Seems fairly positive, at least in the context of the poll. I know a lot of you have had different experiences, though.

Seems to back up my assertation that Gaffers are more sensible than imagined, and that a small, very loud crowd is affecting perception. Or perhaps we have a lot of lurkers.

It's nice to see. I'd just love if that ratio had been felt in threads all this year and last, which were unanimous Gamefaqs-level disasters, outside of this one.
 

Jooxed

Gold Member
I love that you feel that way, as I don't want you to feel the way I do. 😋

To me, while it is one of my favorites, it has a noticeable polish/quality reduction from the usual Mario/Zelda/Metroid standard, sometimes a drastic one, sometimes a subtle one. It feels much like Luigi's Mansion 1 or Pikmin 1 to me; a stellar, innovative game, but one that feels like it was rushed, or deprioritized, feeling more like a Nintendo 'B' game, rather than what they usually offer for Mario.



Seems to back up my assertation that Gaffers are more sensible than imagined, and that a small, very loud crowd is affecting perception. Or perhaps we have a lot of lurkers.

It's nice to see. I'd just love if that ratio had been felt in threads all this year and last, which were unanimous Gamefaqs-level disasters, outside of this one.

I think after a couple of the major ones got banned for a couple weeks they have been playing it safe. I expect Witcher 3 vs BoTW to be heated.
 

-Arcadia-

Banned
That's such a good example of clear marketing. There wasn't a question of what it could do and what made it differ from other consoles.

Marketing done this well looks effortless, but I bet it was quite difficult to come up with something this superb, for such a different concept, while at the same time making it so energetic and exciting.

Just such a great job. Right then, even though the Eurogamer leak had my mind racing already, I knew they had something.

Compare that to the Wii U trailer, where if you don't follow games, it looks like a Wii accessory. They really took the criticism to heart.
 
S

SLoWMoTIoN

Unconfirmed Member
I don't know that it will, but if BotW wins GotG, some people are going to go into straight up meltdown, lol.

Probably not worse than when MGS4 won 2008 GotY, people cried about it for years, and Gaffers finally agreed to do another extensive 2008 poll... wherein MGS4 won again. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Do you think the alts will let Witcher lose?

No we can't have that.

For the glory of Poland, Witcher must win!
 
I love that you feel that way, as I don't want you to feel the way I do. 😋

To me, while it is one of my favorites, it has a noticeable polish/quality reduction from the usual Mario/Zelda/Metroid standard, sometimes a drastic one, sometimes a subtle one. It feels much like Luigi's Mansion 1 or Pikmin 1 to me; a stellar, innovative game, but one that feels like it was rushed, or deprioritized, feeling more like a Nintendo 'B' game, rather than what they usually offer for Mario.

I can agree with that sentiment to a certain degree. There are plenty of low effort shines and blue coins. Blue coins in particular feel like busy work.
 

-Arcadia-

Banned
Do you think the alts will let Witcher lose?

No we can't have that.

For the glory of Poland, Witcher must win!

Lol, I'm happy with either. We are well represented by either of those games, or even the last few.

I do wonder if there's a lot of alts, and if so, how much of an effect they're having. The OP really should have made voting visible. That said, I don't really see any signs of astroturfing. Quality is winning all around.
 

Mr Hyde

Member
Booted up CrossCode and so far it's really good. Love the 16-bit pixel style, it looks gorgeous, and the combat is pure excellence. You got melee and ranged attack and the fights are fast and fluid. I don't know, but it reminds me of Pocky & Rocky when you throw your orbs around. Just arrived at Bergen mountains but went back to town to stock up on better gear since getting my ass kicked. I think this ones a keeper.
 
It's the complete opposite for me in Mario 64. Mario 64 is considered a very easy game and yet I've died dozens of times from the erratic camera, weird momentum when Mario moves, or jumps that don't seem to register the way you expect them to. It's a good game and has way more historic value than Sunshine, but Sunshine is the better experience for my tastes.

I can kind of see that perspective, but I am on the Mario 64 side of things myself. I just finished (last night) 100%-ing Sunshine (after having 100%-ed Mario 64) and I just enjoyed Mario 64 more. Sunshine had too many levels and hidden things that were nearly impossible to locate without a guide, whereas Mario 64 is easier to figure things out on your own. Seriously, there were AT LEAST 20 blue coins and 3 or 4 shine sprites that elicited an audible "What!?!" after locating them. I don't mind cool hidden stuff, but to have no hint as to the hidden item(s) and no indication that even doing what you have to do is even a thing ... well, let's just say I'm not a fan of the obscure. That, plus the less tight controls compared to other 3D games and I can't give it more than, say a 90/100. Still a great game but not the pinnacle of Mario 3D for me.

However, I am on the side of the FLUDD controls being pretty awesome. For me, that was not a problem. As Arcadia mentioned, it just felt like a rushed game overall. If they had put in some effort to rework certain levels and added some actual, you know, hints ... I might have a different opinion. I think that's why I adored Mario Odyssey - for a completionist you almost always have a way of figuring out a moon in-game through the parrot hints. That was perfect.
 

bender

What time is it?
Can someone explain to me why Sunshine is considered a lesser game in the Mario franchise? This is the second time I've played through it and both times I came away feeling like it improved upon Mario 64 in almost every way possible. Playing the two games back to back reinforces my opinion that much further.

I never spent much time with either game at release. Thanks to this collection, I've finished Mario 64 with about 114 Stars. I'm about 50 Shines into Sunshine and I think I'm enjoying it more overall. The back half of Mario 64's levels were kind of a let down as was fighting the camera controls. Having a free camera in Sunshine just feels refreshing after that.
 
I finished Sunshine last night (98 shines) and I feel it is definitely the better game. It's just more fun to play and I really dig the island vacation theme it goes for.

I beat 64 with 120 stars and enjoyed it much more than I thought I would (apart from maybe the last 10 stars). The camera absolute ruins the back end of it to the point where it's almost unplayable. I've had no such issues with Sunshine, and while it is on the easy side, it's just so much fun to run around and control Mario. I probably won't go for 120 shines here (I'll end up on 116 / 117 without the final blue coins), but I will do as much as I can before I start Galaxy.

I haven't played Sunshine since 2002, I think. I'm really glad I decided to play through 64 first because I think had I jumped right into Sunshine, I wouldn't have enjoyed it as much. With the additional context of 64, and the relative "freedom" it feels like you have in Sunshine with the camera and movement, it's easier to see how much of a step up from 64 it is.

I also love FLUDD. Great innovation and makes Sunshine super unique in both the 3D Mario series and platforming genre in general.
There are so many cool ideas in this game, and it still looks great almost 20 years later. The biggest shame is that the game was rushed out. It could have been an all-time classic had Nintendo not skimped on development to try and save the GameCube.
 

Intoxicate

Member
Finalized both 64 and Sunshine with 120 stars/shines. The latter was more fun to play, but other then 64 where the last 10 stars are a bit painful, with Sunshine I felt the last Blue Coin stars were impossible without a guide. I would have not finalized it without a guide in contrast to 64.
Now 65 stars into Galaxy feels really easy compared to some of the challanges in the earlier games.
 

Saruhashi

Banned
The responses to the poll I posted are mostly positive so far. The ratio of positive to negative is about 2.7 to 1 (based on the voting). That's pretty good. Sure, you've got a decent proportion of people who just aren't happy with what Nintendo offers. That's fine. It's true of any console. I haven't seen any outright trolling or hate, unless you count the guy who said the games are for people under the age of 10, which is one of those "so stupid it's funny" comments.

Not that I care all that much what other people think. I have always just played what I like. I was just curious what the general attitude on GAF was. Seems fairly positive, at least in the context of the poll. I know a lot of you have had different experiences, though.

I think on GAF there are a few factors at play when it comes to critics of Nintendo.

You have the dumbasses who just think that only "grown up" games are valid. This means violence, realistic graphics and story that should be like an HBO show or something. Nintendo for some reason brings out some insecurity there. Basically people trying to hard to show that they are cool and all grown up.

Outside of those you have people who think of criticism as a necessary part of everything and who don't really get that others are free to simply dismiss criticism. This covers the moaning about ports and prices and sequels etc. They get frustrated because I might say "well I am willing to pay 60 bucks for that so I no longer care and I'm just enjoying the game". They almost seem to think that they've decided something is bad and so we all need to get our pitchforks out.

So where I see a Nintendo Direct as nothing more than an advertisement for new and upcoming games there are some people who see it as something that should have them leaping around the room with joy at all the unexpected massive announcements.

Where I am just asking myself if the game is good to play they are almost wanting a life changing experience that they can then gloat or brag or something about and the cartoony graphics or whatever are getting in the way.

Any thread about sales figures will attract many posters who will start moaning about people accepting low standards or underpowered hardware etc.

Maybe people in general just like being moany bastards. I know I do. :)
 
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