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[GametimeUK]

I can understand why it would make things better for developers, for sure.
But looking at screens people post, I just don't get it. Well done fake lighting can look... pretty good. The performance cost for the difference you are getting just doesn't seem that big.
Maybe I will try playing Control one of these days and see what I think.

Control is a great example of how transformative it can be, but still like you say it's expensive and I'm not 100% sure it's worth the performance hit in some cases with other games such as Tomb Raider. However, like with any new tech it's expensive at first, but later down the line we'd assume that it won't move much of an issue so that's why I'm excited for it. Control is great to see a good example of RT in its infancy though 100%

 

[Pagusas]

I´m glad that Ray tracing acolytes were not in charge in the past or we would not have all of those techniques.

....yes we would. RT coming to fruition now is thanks to hardware power and denoising systems hitting a point of viable returns. All the other techniques are still needed.

 

[lukilladog]

....yes we would. RT coming to fruition now is thanks to hardware power and denoising systems hitting a point of viable returns. All the other techniques are still needed.

No we wouldn´t.

 

[Bigfroth]

Not really, don't care about the resolution that much either 1080,1440 4k 8k whatever. character animation, A.I, story, map design, and sound keep making advancements forward. Lighting and shadows fake and bake it if it saves the Framerate from tanking.

 

[Bonfires Down]

I think it can really help in shaded locations where the lighting otherwise looks flat and this one is a good example, though it is a bit too dark. But if developers can achieve similar results without ray tracing, that's even better. I'll just let them figure out the best approach with next gen consoles as a baseline.

 

[daninthemix]

I think it's cute that the consoles are attempting it.

 

[Sentenza]

Dude, I dont even know what ray tracing is.

Don't worry, most of the people in this thread seems to be on the same boat.

 

[StateofMajora]

If it gets rid of screen space garbage, it’s worth it. Assuming the hit is to resolution and not frame rate.

seriously, the fact that wave race blue storm has better reflections than the vast majority of current games is funny.

 

[Joe T.]

I do, but the hardware isn't powerful enough to justify its use in most cases yet especially with the continued push for 4K/60fps or higher.

I noticed that Minecraft, for example, was brought up as one of the more impressive demonstrations of ray tracing in a recent thread and I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that the difference between ray tracing being on or off is easy for everyone to see, the base visuals are so simple. That's not the case in some of the more visually impressive games.

 

[TKOFromTokyo]

Nope, don’t care

 

[Michael Hawk]

I want it but only if it doesn't have a big performance hit. Current implementation of raytracing consists of better mirrors and realistic reflections, and while it's cool, it's just not worth it if it shaves anywhere between 30 to 60 bigass frames. The stuff that Cerny was talking about with ray traced audio + the Tempest engine is exciting, as that advancement in audio simulation + audio delivery could introduce a new category of games and gameplay ideas that just weren't possible before.

 

[notseqi]

Don't care about RT and feel it's too big a sacrifice right now, used as a hype tool to get people into buying certain brands.

I don't mind just-ok graphics as long as they are consistent and without major failures i.e. crappy tapestry backgrounds or bad skyboxes.
Lighting has evolved far enough to be servicable and I will skip this generation in regards of RT.

 

[sackings]

only if it doesnt compromise framerate and resolution, which I guess is the whole point of dedicated hw for it on chips. But really its not going to make a noticeable difference until we can render the entire thing using RT, unlike the hybrid way we are moving toward now.

 

[Spukc]

it's like HDR

i don't want to buy games that don't support it

 

[u4ea]

Halving framerate for a scene that looks a bit darker.... I don't really get it.
I think this is the future and we need to keep investing in it, but right now it's reeeaaallly not worth the framerate, you can barely see the difference.

The only game that has a huge difference is Minecraft right now.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

It's fine if it's in an optional high fidelity mode with all the bells and whistles.

But generally, if RT is going to sink the ship in frame rate, and apply a shiny coat of reflection by tuning light bouncing off every object like it's a mirror, then forget it.

Not every material in life has light reflecting off it like it's big bloomy effects.

 

[LittleBusters]

It's fine if it's in an optional high fidelity mode with all the bells and whistles.

But generally, if RT is going to sink the ship in frame rate, and apply a shiny coat of reflection by tuning light bouncing off every object like it's a mirror, then forget it.

Not every material in life has light reflecting off it like it's big bloomy effects.

Sony would have everyone believing that the way they do RT is the end all and be all of gaming going forward.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

The second opinion makes no sense,bump mapping used to be a waste of resources...

 

[A.Romero]

Yes I care and yes I want it in my games. With DLSS it is very viable right now.

In any case, I rather have the option from now so when powerful hardware is available the games are ready.

PCMR, btw. I don't think it's such a good idea on consoles.

 

[notseqi]

The second opinion makes no sense,bump mapping used to be a waste of resources...

It took us to textures with depth in one great leap. This is a little more light to where light is already acceptable.

It's a bit much to compare the two.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

PCMR, btw. I don't think it's such a good idea on consoles.

That's the thing.

In consoles, most games don't even give an option for visuals. If the game has an option for high quality viduals/lower frames and vice versa it's not so bad as the gamer can choose. PC gamers have a tons of slider settings, so they can finely tune the game how they want vs. their rig.

Most console games have one main visual setting. It might give you some general sliders like brightness, contrast, blood on/off, and some other basic things, but they have no effect on frame rate.

If the game has RT jammed into it and no option #2 mode, the gameplay and frames might flush down the toilet as DF shows the game runs pretty but at 25-30 fps.

 

[eventualdecline]

No. Along with 4K it’s a complete waste of resources. I’d rather see a huge leap in graphics over this fluff shit

also nearly all RT reflections overblown. Light in glass and metal does not reflect as strongly as show in all these RT games.

This guy literally just said that he doesn’t care about ray tracing and 4K, but that he wants a “huge leap in graphics”. What is this, gamefaqs? I shouldn’t have to read posts like this, it’s not fair to me.

Sure, I can give this guy the benefit of the doubt, and assume that he’s talking about texture detail, like more detailed environments, and more detailed character models, etc. The thing is, each gen brings those things ALONG with higher resolutions. They are not mutually exclusive. Not to mention, higher resolution settings improves the geometry of things like the environments, along with their detail. In 4K, I can literally see an ice cave, for example, look beefier, more detailed, colorful, etc. Drop it down to 1080p, and it still looks like an ice cave in a modern game, but I can see the geometry take a hit.

The point? You kinda need 4K to get those graphics leaps you’re looking for. It’s not absolutely necessary, but it’s like saying “well the Super Nintendo doesn’t NEED 16 bits, I just want better graphics! Just throw in some more colors, but keep it 8-bit. 16 bit is too advanced! Final Fantasy 7 doesn’t need 3 CD’s. It only needs one! One CD is already enough, 3 is too many CDs! Why so many discs? One disc gets the job done! Literally no one says that. So why say “I don’t need ray tracing”? What kind of half-assed opinion is that?

 

[A.Romero]

That's the thing.

In consoles, most games don't even give an option for visuals. If the game has an option for high quality viduals/lower frames and vice versa it's not so bad as the gamer can choose. PC gamers have a tons of slider settings, so they can finely tune the game how they want vs. their rig.

Most console games have one main visual setting. It might give you some general sliders like brightness, contrast, blood on/off, and some other basic things, but they have no effect on frame rate.

If the game has RT jammed into it and no option #2 mode, the gameplay and frames might flush down the toilet as DF shows the game runs pretty but at 25-30 fps.

Yes, that's one of the disadvantage of the platforms.

Still, I don't think most devs would bother with RT if it was only for PC. I'm sorry but for PC to widely have RT consoles must include it. It's a sacrifice I'm willing to make (lol).

 

[VFXVeteran]

I don't have a good idea of what people think about hardware accelerated real time ray tracing. Sony, Microsoft and nVidia are marketing the hell out of it, but I don't think I've read many positive impressions of it on forums.

To me it seems like an obvious waste of resources. You'd still be able to have very good looking reflections and lighting/shadows without it and imho it's "good enough" quality for now in the big picture. When I look at "RTX on" screenshot galleries, it very quickly resorts to showing scenes with large puddles and it reminds me how situational and how marginal the benefit is.

Is this an artifact of how cynical this field has become? Or maybe this is a necessary stepping stone toward something that'll become worthwhile in the future. But then that raises new questions: should we dedicate silicon, and how much, for specific features? This seems to contradict the previous trend of generalizing GPU programmability.

Am I an idiot? I'm open to that possibility. Let me know.

edit: I a word.

RT is required to push visuals to the next level. It's just that right now, the hardware isn't powerful enough to show all the advances in RT that's needed. If we didn't have RT, then we'd be at diminishing returns right now. Lighting in games have to move past screen-space techniques and probe lookups.

The games right now that use RT either have poor art direction or doesn't use the most complex features of RT - like GI. Unfortunately, this isn't going to get better on closed hardware this generation. Therefore we wait for the next generations of hardware to show us real progress.

 

[eventualdecline]

That's the thing.

In consoles, most games don't even give an option for visuals. If the game has an option for high quality viduals/lower frames and vice versa it's not so bad as the gamer can choose. PC gamers have a tons of slider settings, so they can finely tune the game how they want vs. their rig.

Most console games have one main visual setting. It might give you some general sliders like brightness, contrast, blood on/off, and some other basic things, but they have no effect on frame rate.

If the game has RT jammed into it and no option #2 mode, the gameplay and frames might flush down the toilet as DF shows the game runs pretty but at 25-30 fps.

That’s not how next gen games are going to work, though. Maybe on Series S, but it’s highly unlikely on Series X and PS5. I doubt Series X/PS5 games will be dipping below 30fps when they feature ray tracing. Why? First of all, the next gen consoles are already confirmed to have the custom resolution and FPS settings that you claim they don’t have. They are literally marketing next gen console games to feature graphics-slider options. Where have you been, buddy? These “performance modes” will work exactly the way they already do on the PS4 Pro and One X, where those two consoles also have graphics settings options with a lot of major new games, for several years now. So considering that current gen already offers these options, I don’t foresee a situation where next gen players will be stuck with ray tracing and a super low resolution. There’s no reason to assume this.

 

[Tickrate]

The upcoming console generation ray tracing capabilities don't impress me much, and in my eyes are more or less a gimmick.
This is because it's mainly reflections.

The new RTX line is getting more interesting but even that is still far off from its full glory.
Nvidia's marbles demo is a peek at the future.

Give the tech one or two more generations and we'll see some remarkable stuff.

 

[Trogdor1123]

I don't dislike it but I don't see it as much as others do.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

That’s not how next gen games are going to work, though. Maybe on Series S, but it’s highly unlikely on Series X and PS5. I doubt Series X/PS5 games will be dipping below 30fps when they feature ray tracing. Why? First of all, the next gen consoles are already confirmed to have the custom resolution and FPS settings that you claim they don’t have. They are literally marketing next gen console games to feature graphics-slider options. Where have you been, buddy? These “performance modes” will work exactly the way they already do on the PS4 Pro and One X, where those two consoles also have graphics settings options with a lot of major new games, for several years now. So considering that current gen already offers these options, I don’t foresee a situation where next gen players will be stuck with ray tracing and a super low resolution. There’s no reason to assume this.

All games have the visual/frames option? I thought its a case by case basis on the dev.

Not all Pro/One X games have this setting.

 

[Mista]

Nope. Tried it couple if times, didn’t see anything mind blowing. Not even worth the performance sacrifice

And I’ll never understand the fuss about it

 

[eventualdecline]

Unfortunately, this isn't going to get better on closed hardware this generation. Therefore we wait for the next generations of hardware to show us real progress.

I doubt this post will age well. It takes at least a year or two, realistically more, for devs to really push new console hardware and make games that don’t resemble last gen. Launch/launch window games often look like last gen games with a prettier coat of paint. And even once the heavy hitters start showing off a console’s graphics by mid-gen, it’s only a select few, usually first party studios, that are able to make the games that really show off what a console can do. The point is, there’s no reason to assume that the new consoles don’t have some advanced ray tracing tricks (as well as other tricks), that will blow us away, years from now.

Take a look at Vectorman on the Genesis, from 1995. Then look at the Genesis launch games from 1989. You think anyone in 1989 could have dreamed that in 6 years, Genesis games could look like Vectorman? They don’t even look like they’re from the same console generation. Early Genesis games looked like NES games, practically. And it makes sense, since that’s what developers knew back then. As another example, early PS3 games looked like absolute shit compared to late gen PS3 games. Another perfect example. Late PS3 games look like the blu ray discs also came with new hardware packed into them.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I doubt this post will age well. It takes at least a year or two, realistically more, for devs to really push new console hardware and make games that don’t resemble last gen. Launch/launch window games often look like last gen games with a prettier coat of paint. And even once the heavy hitters start showing off a console’s graphics by mid-gen, it’s only a select few, usually first party studios, that are able to make the games that really show off what a console can do. The point is, there’s no reason to assume that the new consoles don’t have some advanced ray tracing tricks (as well as other tricks), that will blow us away, years from now.

Take a look at Vectorman on the Genesis, from 1995. Then look at the Genesis launch games from 1989. You think anyone in 1989 could have dreamed that in 6 years, Genesis games could look like Vectorman? They don’t even look like they’re from the same console generation. Early Genesis games looked like NES games, practically. And it makes sense, since that’s what developers knew back then. As another example, early PS3 games looked like absolute shit compared to late gen PS3 games. Another perfect example. Late PS3 games look like the blu ray discs also came with new hardware packed into them.

That Genesis Batman and Robin game was the best looking Genesis game I played. It played shit as it played like a shooter, but I couldn't believe the visuals.

 

[Dargor]

 

[jonnyp]

I'll care about it when sometime in the future AAA games look like that Star Wars or Project Sol RTX demo in realtime gameplay

 

[ThatOneGrunt]

I think I care. I just haven't seen anything yet that's wowed me.

Except for Minecraft. So far thats the only time where I saw Raytracing and thought it was a game changer.

 

[Tschumi]

All graphical features that make things look more hyper realistic feel indulgent to me.. these are games, not life sims... gt7... Well I'm glad it'll continue to look best in genre but I'm sure it looks stunning without RT, too.

 

[nemiroff]

It doesn't matter if we care or not, RT has landed and will be here to stay at an ever growing presence. Those who are kicking and screaming and "just don't wanna" are wasting their energy.

 

[eventualdecline]

All games have the visual/frames option? I thought its a case by case basis on the dev.

Not all Pro/One X games have this setting.

Yeah, and the ones that don’t have these options, are unlikely to lock players at 20 FPS. I don’t see it happening in fancy next gen games, certainly not in any halfway decent games that are worth playing. Also, for all we know, PS5 and SX will standardize “performance mode” settings for all modern games that feature 4K. It’s already extremely common on current gen. Finally, you seem to not be factoring in that these new consoles are actually pretty powerful, and pretty capable. Especially for the immediate future. Initially, they’re going to be more powerful than 95% of all PC’s out there. Possibly 95% of all gaming PC’s (at first) You realize that, right?

 

[Psajdak]

I don't care about it all that much, but I'm glad that it started to be a thing.
Maybe hardware still isn't strong enough for it, but it will get there.

Just compare 3D graphics 25 years ago, and now - everything needs to start at some point.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I doubt this post will age well. It takes at least a year or two, realistically more, for devs to really push new console hardware and make games that don’t resemble last gen. Launch/launch window games often look like last gen games with a prettier coat of paint. And even once the heavy hitters start showing off a console’s graphics by mid-gen, it’s only a select few, usually first party studios, that are able to make the games that really show off what a console can do. The point is, there’s no reason to assume that the new consoles don’t have some advanced ray tracing tricks (as well as other tricks), that will blow us away, years from now.

There is nothing that a developer can do to get around bandwidth constraints. There are some really smart people that don't work at gaming studios and they haven't come up with a technique for faster RT due to it's nature (especially in a closed platform with fixed hardware). That's why innovation in actual hardware silicon was born. Having worked with RT for many years, it is what it is. Looking through the UE4 RTX code shows me the same algorithms that we use in film. There literally isn't anything magical about it in a realtime engine and game devs will use similar code.

Until we come up with a better way to model light paths, it'll be expensive and hog up bandwidth - especially at higher resolutions.

 

[ReBurn]

I'm a fan of shiny puddles. So bring on the ray tracing.

 

[MrFunSocks]

Absolutely. Real time reflections, lighting, and shadows using ray tracing can add so much more to games, including in actual gameplay. You'd be able to spot people that are off screen using reflections and shadows, etc.

What they showed us in Spider-Man PS4 remastered? Not sure that's worth the expense in an actual next gen game though. If that's the best quality they could do in a PS4 game running at a higher res then it doesn't bode well for next gen games.

 

[MrFunSocks]

The examples people are using ITT to justify RT are really not making the case for it.

Imagine in an online multiplayer game, or even a stealth game like MGS or sections in TLOU etc, where you can see an enemy around a corner or sneaking up behind you because of a reflective surface in front of you. There's literally no way to do that at the moment if they are off screen. Same way that shadows don't appear until the thing that's casting it is rendered on screen, causing shadows to just pop in. RT has the potential to add completely new things to gaming that have previously not been possible.

 

[Danjin44]

No, I never did and I never will and if there is option to turn it off for better performance then I will gladly turn it off.

 

[Compsiox]

On PC there's no reason not to be excited for raytracing. The possibilities are endless.

On console, games won't use many raytracing features. At least not for a while.

 

[Iamborghini]

No, I never did and I never will and if there is option to turn it off for better performance then I will gladly turn it off.

Never will?? Are u sure? Because in years to come it's will be like turning on screen space reflection or screen space ambient occlusion ... are you saying no to that today?

 

[AetherMage]

I like good games.

 

[Rygeist]

Raytracing is phenomenal on PC

 

[Danjin44]

Never will?? Are u sure? Because in years to come it's will be like turning on screen space reflection or screen space ambient occlusion ... are you saying no to that today?

Like I said if there is option to turn it off for better performance then I will just turn it off, I dot find it all that exciting as much most people here do.

 

[Kylars Bluff]

I was told that Next Gen would have pretty particles.

I was told pretty particles in Next Gen would be like the 2nd Coming of Christ.

I want pretty Next Gen particles!

 

[Rikkori]

Strategic use of RT can be great, but in general you can have most of the benefit from other techniques and which cost far far less in terms of hardware power. And in many cases the RT effects are mostly ignorable during gameplay (eg reflections). It's not an accident that UE5 is relegating such a minor role to RT except for PC where they can allow "uber settings" options.

Tbh I think the major push for RT now comes more from the hardware guys because they're hitting some serious walls in terms of further improving performance for rasterisation but RT allows them to keep pushing, and since RT IS better at the end of the day then sure, why not? They love to sell more GPUs.