Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Not thinking about Halo. I'm thinking about games like Cyberpunk and Dying Light 2 that are confirmed to use raytraced global illumination and emissive lighting.
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Dusk Golem reiterates that the Xbox will be more powerful than the PS5 (Admitted to starting console wars, demodded)
Not thinking about Halo. I'm thinking about games like Cyberpunk and Dying Light 2 that are confirmed to use raytraced global illumination and emissive lighting.
You don't actually need Insider information to know that Epic claims that Hellblade 2 runs real time. They already said so in a livestream:
splattered
Member
Really? Cause i could name drop a TON of Playstation fans on twitter (and Gaf) that constantly FUD against Xbox. You're telling me you don't see the constant trolling from PS fans throwing around their stupid memes ("69!") WAY before craig was ever a thing? You are either blind or pretending not to see it.
There is no "more from those other guys" here, both sides act equally as childish.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
digoutyoursoul
Member
Is that thuway guy still around? Pete Dodd? How’s he doing?
I do agree with those who say content is king, I have to say some of the posts dismissing power forget , particularly on here, how resolution dominated a lot of talk . Sunset Overdrive had a more active thread regarding its 900p resolution than the thread dedicated to the game itself which said a lot. The media were even more determined weekly with discussions about it.
“Insiders” and stuff like that, your best waiting till the systems and games are out to judge for yourself, I don’t trust any of them.
I do agree with those who say content is king, I have to say some of the posts dismissing power forget , particularly on here, how resolution dominated a lot of talk . Sunset Overdrive had a more active thread regarding its 900p resolution than the thread dedicated to the game itself which said a lot. The media were even more determined weekly with discussions about it.
“Insiders” and stuff like that, your best waiting till the systems and games are out to judge for yourself, I don’t trust any of them.
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
you quote my favorite phonie, for good?
I ALREADY told you, microsoft being clocked at 1825, they dont even have to go "variable", IF 2100 or 2200 were sustainable.
they could just bump up to 2000 or 2100 and still keep it fixed, nt variable.
and we already know that they made their hardware using split motherboards with a heat sink in-between, so they have more temperature to spare.
if we are going to keep discussing, I demand that you be serious. otherwise it is a waste of time.
actually your paradigm would be more realistic if you said that first you go to a tuner to raise that redline by 25%, then you go redline all the time.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Now does the implications of this need to be explained before you tell me "awww its just Minecraft". Maybe this will help:
JonnyMP3
Member
F1 is a V6 engine.you quote my favorite phonie, for good?
I ALREADY told you, microsoft being clocked at 1825, they dont even have to go "variable", IF 2100 or 2200 were sustainable.
they could just bump up to 2000 or 2100 and still keep it fixed, nt variable.
and we already know that they made their hardware using split motherboards with a heat sink in-between, so they have more temperature to spare.
if we are going to keep discussing, I demand that you be serious. otherwise it is a waste of time.
actually your paradigm would be more realistic if you said that first you go to a tuner to raise that redline by 25%, then you go redline all the time.
Nascar is V8.
F1 still goes faster than Nascar.
IbelieveInGenerations
Banned
I hqe
Not inferior.
Being superior has always been about having the best games catalogue.
Not inferior.
Being superior has always been about having the best games catalogue.
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
both ps5 and xbox are using the same engines though
Entroyp
Member
I don’t think Desk Gollum is lying, Capcom probably copy pasted their PS4 engine to PS5 and ran like shit. However, that’s expected as PS5 is not about using the same old APIs and tools (maybe). XsX on the other hand can run the PC version of the engine without breaking a sweat.
Having said that I do believe there was malice behind his comments, in order to ‘balance the score’ or whatever. So all the shit he’s getting is deserved IMO.
Having said that I do believe there was malice behind his comments, in order to ‘balance the score’ or whatever. So all the shit he’s getting is deserved IMO.
jimbojim
Banned
Please provide the same number of PS fans ( which are,.of course recognized and has decent amount of followers ) on twitter like these Phil Spencer nut huggers ( noted that MisterXmedia is missing. Instead, you, can switch him with MBG
JonnyMP3
Member
The XSX has more CU's... So more cylinders.
Demon2blades
Member
So was it newsworthy and do you agree that he put that info online with malicious intent ? Because that's what people are flaming him for it don't matter if rumor was real because the game ain't out till 2021 all unoptimized games run like shit .
killatopak
Member
Real time is just a fancy word for in engine. Not gameplay.
Halo Infinite 2018/2019 demos were real time as well.
Do you really expect to play 24fps and black bar 4k?
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megreotsugua
Banned
This what the ex ND dev and that former playstation engineer have been saying on tweeter many times already whenever the narrative that the PS5 is the weaker console.
The games will do the talking.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
He also said it was “anecdotal” and then saying “to the best of his knowledge they will turn out to be true”
That’s not how “anecdotal” works, retard.
jimbojim
Banned
you quote my favorite phonie, for good?
I ALREADY told you, microsoft being clocked at 1825, they dont even have to go "variable", IF 2100 or 2200 were sustainable.
Phonie. LOL.
MS could do variable clocks and make XSX more powerful. But they decided to stick with 12 TF and locked 1.8 GHz. If they think it's enough, it's up to them.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Hell, even Xbox execs and engineers backed off on their marketing of “power and TFs” and said it will come down to developers and how they make the games.
NO SHIT.
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VFXVeteran
Banned
Agree.
JerryinSoCal
Member
It was running in their engine, it wasn't running an a series x so what's the point? It was also running at 24fps at 1600p with black bars on the top and bottom. The game isn't going to look like that so don't set your expectations that high or you are going to be disappointed.
JerryinSoCal
Member
PS5 has fewer but faster "cylinders" so directly comparing the volume doesn't paint an accurate picture.
JonnyMP3
Member
The GPUs both have different frequency clocks as well.
2.23GHz vs 1.8Ghz. So the analogy is still the same. The V6 has a bigger bore than the V8.
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
come on now..
their engines are completely diffrentely built
one is 746kg the other 1451kg
plus, f1 and nascar do not run on the same championship, do they?
Tripolygon
Banned
Ask yourself why Nvidia does not lock their GPU at the advertised clock speed. Everyone uses and has switched to variable clocks. It allows you to clock higher than you usually would to gain more performance.
Because during normal gaming the GPUs holds higher sustainable clock but are allowed to downclock in situations when power spikes. An RTX 2080 holds a steady 1920MHz - 1935MHz and a RTX 2080S holds 1905MHz - 1920MHz well above their advertised base and boost clock of 1515MHz - 1815MHz
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JonnyMP3
Member
And the XSX and PS5 are completely differently built.
And they're both cars, racing different races... 1 is the PS platform at nd one is the Xbox platform.
And as for size difference... I didn't know that 52 CU's could fit on a 36CU die size. Oh wait, it can't. It's bigger. So is the V8.
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splattered
Member
Please provide the same number of PS fans ( which are,.of course recognized and has decent amount of followers ) on twitter like these Phil Spencer nut huggers ( noted that MisterXmedia is missing. Instead, you, can switch him with MBG
No thanks, i don't need their negative attention. You can easily fill out a list like yours with PS fanboy warriors from twitter and elsewhere. Some of them are actually pretty damn bad and at least one that should be reported to the authorities (Not sure if he has yet or not?)
"newsworthy" ? Oh sorry i didn't realize that putting a statement on your personal twitter or in a gaming forum automatically makes you certified gaming news outlet.
Malicious intent? Not MALICIOUS, no. If he was 100% lying and said this stuff then yes, that would be more malicious. Again i see nothing wrong with him saying this stuff if it is what an actual dev said. I agree that it's early unoptimized game that still has work to be done. "HOW DARE HE GIVE OUT INFORMATION STRAIGHT FROM A DEVELOPER THAT DOESN'T LINE UP WITH WHAT I WANT TO HEAR!" is basically how the whole thing has played out.
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loktaiextatus
Member
Comparing to cylinders is already nuts.
Why do we need to bring up cylinders and cars. You could be talking about compression ratio or something- But there is
something a car deals with which is power band, and of course weight. Lets not talk about cars lets compare calculation workloads.
10.28 is about 84.6 (if I am right) percent of 12.15.
It means- that if there IS a workload that fully utiulizes all 12.15 TFLops which is a measure of HOW MANY not HOW fast but how many it does
per second, then if the workload is enough to keep all the CUs fully busy - the PS5 will be left with about 15% of the Floating point calculations
on the table. This also doesnt affect fill rate or other non-CU tasks which the PS5 could in theory have an advantage in - but thats going to
apply to specific situations, for the most part you're going to be looking at the floating point to determine the geometry available.
15 percent isnt nothing but... its not big. The difference between the Xbox One X and the PS4 pro is double that and for example they had to knock
resident evil 3 down out of native 4K to the same resolution as the PS4 Pro to keep the framerate steady- BUT the One X has some kind of slightly better
shadows going on - so it kept some advantage. If the difference between the machines is half that much I expect small, small differences.
The differences are going to come up in two scenarios mostly.
The first is, the thing is just not optimized or the developer is bringing in a PC game meant for DirectX and the PS5 port goes unpolished. OF course this
can and will happen at times- and it MAY happen the other way around. but I suspect more often it will go this way and PS5 will need a patch later
if they even care.
And the second is in a scenario where the Xbox series X can hardly run the game at 60FPS.... For instance if the game runs at 70FPS on xbox one X and its locked down to 60
it would also run at 60 on the PS5- but without the headroom, this might mean if there ARE frame dips its possible youd see them more on PS5- this is all speculative.
Or if a game just, barely, BARELY, manages to run at 60FPS with frame dips. Unless you bring down resolution, detail or some other thing to make up for a few percent the PS5
would not hit 60fps.. UNLESS- UNLESS- the way the game is taxing the system isnt to do with geometry, but as I said 4 out of 5 times if it has to do with framerate you're going
to be looking at those floating point operations as a fairly decent estimation of potential OUTSIDE of lack of optimization, special tricks or alternative implementations of the
same effect for instance a different way of handling textures or a different method of CULLING un-needed geometry which both consoles seem to employ some method of doing.
Demon2blades
Member
If your claiming to be an "insider" yes you know damn well why he made that statement he said his reasons his self Xbox was in a negative light and he wanted to level up the field with some info that was totally worthless given the release date of the game and it backfired I mean is it so hard to understand why people went all in on him .
jimbojim
Banned
First you could, now you won't. Did i get some negative attention?
geordiemp
Member
Not even close, they have
- Different apis, ps5 is direct, Xsx is indirect (Cost unknown)
- XSX will have mesh shaders and VRS
- Ps5 will likely have the custom Geometry engine, Naughty dog and Cerny patent, sony would of chosen this over stock AMD solution so lets see if it has advantages
- One is wide and 1.8 Ghz, one is narrow and 2.23 Ghz
- Ps5 has Coherency engine and cache scrubbers
- P5s will spend less cycles doing IO in a frame
- Unknown ROPS for both
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jimbojim
Banned
12.15 TF will NEVER be fully utilized with locked clocks. 12.15 is theoretical max. And some power will be left on the table. 10.28 TF is also a theoretical max on PS5. But it is a much more achievable with variable clocks
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Oh... I wasn't saying that it was running on the Series X or that it was running with good performance. I was just saying that we don't need insider information to confirm that Epic said that it was running real time.
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splattered
Member
I said i could, not that i would.
It doesn't take much effort to open twitter and find it. Hell even just look at Timdog's posts and see the opposing banter and then follow it down the rabbit hole.
Stop acting like it isn't equally as bad on both sides.
Tripolygon
Banned
What are the implications of comparing a 2080Ti to a 2070 Max-Q? Other than the performance scales exactly as it should.Now does the implications of this need to be explained before you tell me "awww its just Minecraft". Maybe this will help:
#Phonepunk#
Banned
Whenever I dip into a console war thread I am amazed at how much discussion it generates and also amazing at how little I understand. Or care about.
Like I see people accusing each other of using memes and I’m like man thank god I don’t care about any of this
Like I see people accusing each other of using memes and I’m like man thank god I don’t care about any of this
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
guys, they both are using amd rdna2.
and they both are going to be running the same games from the entire 3rd party industry
but... whatever floats your boat I guess
Thirty7ven
Banned
Now does the implications of this need to be explained before you tell me "awww its just Minecraft". Maybe this will help:
Just by curiosity, what is that you are trying to highlight with this? That Path Tracing is expensive?
I wonder if you were impressed by The Tomorrow Children. It uses ray tracing and has real time reflections, but you know.... not a single soul thinks it's the most impressive game they've seen this gen. So I don't quite understand what the Minecraft demos is supposed to hammer home?
And I too want to know where you're trying to get at with comparing a 2080ti to a 2070 Max Q....
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I see many here have an issue with reading comprehension.... I never said I was expecting anything from the footage shown. I'm just discussing the fact that we don't need insider information to validate the fact that Epic said that what was shown runs in real time.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
This applies to both systems though, that includes PS5.
I think people are mistaking variable frequency to mean the system is running at peak clocks by default and takes dips when power budget is exceeded. But that makes no sense. Both systems will only provide the clocks and power that a scene requires. If that's peak, then peak (or just about; 100% peak won't be hit by either system) is provided. If it's 6 TF, then 6 TF is provided. If it's even just 1 TF, then 1 TF is provided.
The variable frequency kicks in when peak is required and needs to be required for a period of time that may exceed the normally allotted power budget. In that case, power is diverted from the CPU (as an example) to give the GPU more of a kick. If no additional power from other processor components can be routed, then the GPU will downclock. The rate of all this depends on the severity of power certain operations/instructions would require, the consistency of those operations (in overall cycle time for any given stretch of time), and requirement of power by other processor components like the CPU and Tempest engine. I'm particularly interested on what effect transient results of persisting simultaneous instructions/calculations (like a somewhat power-intensive instruction loop running alongside intensive non-looping instructions over a measure of cycle time) will have on power draw and could trigger a GPU downclock through reducing the power load, and just how large that would be in practice (i.e if Cerny's 2% frequency reduction holds true most of the time or if that was a theoretical expected range).
So PS5 monitors the power state to determine shifting and reduction of power which in turn will adjust frequency, once peak power budgets are being stressed. MS's systems OTOH aren't monitoring for power; if a sequence of operations need a certain amount of power, the system will always provide that to them and simply increase the cooling to compensate. The main advantage with Sony's approach is that the power load adjustment is very quick, a couple of ms supposedly. MS's approach's advantage is that devs don't need to be as mindful of power management when it comes to their code, since the systems will just ramp up the cooling to compensate for excess if required.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
exactly. he was saying it was prerendered for months then epic says its realtime and he all of a sudden had a source with epic who confirmed it was realtime.
same thing has happened now, he has retroactively created a source that has told him what dusk golem said. not a peep before that. shameful.
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jimbojim
Banned
Never said you would do it. I've mentioned a twitter accounts with decent amount of followers and also who are heavily associated with a brand ( like TimDog, Colteastwood, Dealer Gaming ) and getting a free invites for events. Of course you can find a decent amount of PS fans on Timdogs posts. But bunch of them are meaningless accounts, barrely some with few hundreds followers. Well, of course they will post on Timdogs account because Timdog is well known for spreading crap about PS5.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Minecraft's RTX beta is out now - and it's simply beautiful
UPDATE 20/4/20 2:00pm: What better way to learn more about Minecraft RTX than meeting up with key developers behind the…
www.eurogamer.net
"We've seen an offshoot of this DXR version of Minecraft play out in an Xbox Series X tech demo, where at native 1080p resolution, the new Microsoft console delivered variable frame-rates north of 30fps." - Digital Foundry
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
also jim ryan isnt tweeting ps fanboys any time they tweet at him like phil and aaron greenberg tweet back at timdog.
And Phil himself is in that awful racist xbox era discord. lurking and not posting, but thats the kind of shit you dont see from 'both sides'.
timestamped: 45:15
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
It uses Voxel Global Illumination. I tire of you guys calling Voxel and Screen Space techniques "raytracing". When Nvidia debuted real time raytracing in games do you think they were talking about voxels, signed distance fields, or screen space? Obviously they were talking about triangle raytracing. You probably think all that Marty Mcfly Reshade shit that's flooded youtube is raytracing.
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Thirty7ven
Banned
Minecraft's RTX beta is out now - and it's simply beautiful
UPDATE 20/4/20 2:00pm: What better way to learn more about Minecraft RTX than meeting up with key developers behind the…
"We've seen an offshoot of this DXR version of Minecraft play out in an Xbox Series X tech demo, where at native 1080p resolution, the new Microsoft console delivered variable frame-rates north of 30fps." - Digital Foundry
Is this a riddle? The XSX isn't a 2080ti equivalent and the PS5 isn't a 2070 Max Q equivalent so what the hell are you saying?
Sure, it's cone tracing. Producing similarish results as RT on a PS4 game. Is that impressive to you?
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Knitted Knight
Banned
Please provide the same number of PS fans ( which are,.of course recognized and has decent amount of followers ) on twitter like these Phil Spencer nut huggers ( noted that MisterXmedia is missing. Instead, you, can switch him with MBG
Xbot448...
Dude be hurting badly lately.... him and Saltiest Gaming don't mix well too lmao...
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
No. Just the information I presented seems to have went over your head.
Thirty7ven
Banned
It looks rather different from this side. Your point crashed and burned.
2080Ti > XSX
2070 Max Q < PS5
The 2070 Max Q? Really wolf? This is how low it's getting now?
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