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[Deleted member 471617]

Jez means that if you're looking for top tier single player third person story driven games, you'll most likely be disappointed with Xbox Series X. Outside of a few games like Hellblade 2 and perhaps The Initiative's game, majority of games on Series X simply aren't that. This isn't exactly shocking or surprising. I don't want Microsoft to copy Sony as that would be boring. I easily prefer them going in different directions just like Nintendo has their own direction, so does Microsoft and Sony.

 

[IntentionalPun]

I don't see how anybody can argue against what Jez says here. MS talking about "engagement" and subscriptions more than anything else (when it comes to judging if a game is successful or not).

Aren't they, and their studios, also talking about letting the studios make whatever their creative talent wants?

This narrative that MS is forcing people into specific types of games seems to fly in the face of all of that.

I mean, maybe they are.. but I feel like someone they bought would say something at this point... instead it's all "MS is hands off, just gives us budget to do what we want."

I'd be shocked if at least one of their studios isn't directly targeting the types of games that Sony loves to make.. I mean didn't MS specifically poach a ton of talent from Sony studios?

I also think the idea that only GAAS games work for MS financially on Gamepass is flawed as well. Getting subscribers with big SP gmaes could be just as lucrative.. and beyond that.. MS is still in the business of selling $60 games.

 

[azertydu91]

Yes because games avowed, fable and inexile next rpg will be small lol. The gamepass FUD is so thick these days.


Who says a rpg needs to be a cinematic experience lol. A great rpg can tell a story with out the Sony formula. The lie is moving the goal posts to knock off of Sony games.

Maybe calm down a bit because you may then be able to understaand the basic difference between small and smaller.
To explain it in a more simple way for you to be able to grasp this such abstract concept as comparative=/=adjective if I have 2 billion $ and you have 1 billion $ you are smaller but not small.
Unless you think they can churn games as big and ambitious with less dev time and maybe (but I agree that's a personal conjecture) less budget.

So maybe the next time you want to accuse someone of spreading FUD take a few minutes and ask yourself if you understood even the simplest basis of said post.

Maybe we will all have a more civil discussion then.

 

[Matsuchezz]

MS games studios are a joke. They have inherited/franchises from other publishers and made them their own Only to disgrace them. It happened with Halo and gears of war. those games are forgettable.
Even their own path of games is subpar. Quality wise only turn 10 keeps creating good racers. But besides that the games MS studios produce are not inspiring they are just fillers. Their studios do not make the games they want to make they are married to franchises that are not passionate about. And that is not cool.

 

[iamvin22]

This is quite surprising coming from Jez but yes, PS studios are at an elite level and get great funding

Let me just say even wells is treated EXTREMELY well .

The two preeminent software houses in the world are Nintendo and Sony

They put out consistent "best in class" videogames on the reg

Nobody can touch them(or ever will)

One is like the pixar/Disney studios wing(Nintendo) and the other is like the Marverl Star Wars wing(Sony)

Everybody else pales, but I have Hope's that Microsoft can be the Universal one day, they need to stay the course and good things will happen for them

I can cosign this but say that for Xbox or any console to get to nin/ Sony level they would have to be fully invested for years and that's just the start. MS doesn't appear to care about this space as they want to carve out their own niche pie in the market. I don't even think they care about selling you a physical Xbox anymore. Philly already said both Sony and Nintendo didn't want gamepass on their platforms which means ms approached them with it.

Like I said before, Ms should kill their hardware division and hammer down on Xbox live/ gamepass. They can offer a pay wall to Sony and Nintendo and still have their dev teams build games that are exclusive to gamepass. They would would make so much money if that ecosystem was on nin/Sony.

 

[Mr Moose]

Ok so why don't sony make any big AAA multiplayer games with non-cinematic-linear single player campaigns like Microsoft do?

They do. Just not as many.
Good thing you added non-cinematic-linerar single player campaigns to it to disqualify Uncharted 4 MP.
By doing so, aren't you also disqualifying Halo and Gears? Hmm.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Who says a rpg needs to be a cinematic experience lol. A great rpg can tell a story with out the Sony formula. The lie is moving the goal posts to knock off of Sony games.

Is this "cinematic experience" you're talking about, just employing cutscenes, or dialogue? You know, the standard fare in single-player games?

 

[LarknThe4th]

Let me just say even wells is treated EXTREMELY well .


I can cosign this but say that for Xbox or any console to get to nin/ Sony level they would have to be fully invested for years and that's just the start. MS doesn't appear to care about this space as they want to carve out their own niche pie in the market. I don't even think they care about selling you a physical Xbox anymore. Philly already said both Sony and Nintendo didn't want gamepass on their platforms which means ms approached them with it.

Like I said before, Ms should kill their hardware division and hammer down on Xbox live/ gamepass. They can offer a pay wall to Sony and Nintendo and still have their dev teams build games that are exclusive to gamepass. They would would make so much money if that ecosystem was on nin/Sony.

Oh I dont believe they will get to that level, they can though reach a "Universal" second tier but still better than everybody below them level

I'm gonna be positive on them, they have a slate of announced titles now that, if they hit, will put them in a good place

All three of them are very different to be honest, I like the variety personally

 

[Bryank75]

They're just going a different way... for a different crowd.

I've been tough enough on their games but they have an audience and thinking about it, I shouldn't be dunking on the hard work of people at these studios. They have a vision and because it doesn't align with what I want, doesn't mean it has any less value to others.

I'm sure someone will say something disparaging PS5 in the next while and trigger me into saying some nonsense but I want any XBox users here to know I like you all and want you to have a great launch and enjoy every moment of your new console.

 

[azertydu91]

Yes because games avowed, fable and inexile next rpg will be small lol. The gamepass FUD is so thick these days.


Who says a rpg needs to be a cinematic experience lol. A great rpg can tell a story with out the Sony formula. The lie is moving the goal posts to knock off of Sony games.

While I'm at it let's take your counter examples Avowed, Fable and the next Inexile RPG.... So your examples are games which we haven't seen anything of and barely know anything of as example of bigger games ?
Maybe they will be maybe not ... What we do know is that we don't know anything about these games.
So between us, I argue diferent possible scenarios and you project your hopes on games we know nothing about, but I'm the one spreading FUD?
Sure.Keep telling yourself that.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Ok so why don't sony make any big AAA multiplayer games with non-cinematic-linear single player campaigns like Microsoft do?

Because Third Party studios are already making these games, and giving Sony 30% cut. The nature of multiplayer games means that they have trouble co-existing with each other, if Sony made one of their own it would take customers away from third party games and thus Sony makes less money than it seems.

On the other hand, single player games are able to co-exist because people can buy it, finish it, and buy another game afterwards. Further most third party don't make single player games anymore. So Sony is simply doing their job at rounding out the service Playstation provides by adding games that fill an under-served niche.

Nintendo doesn't rely on Third Party at all, which is why they make both Super Mario Odyssey and Splatoon. Nintendo then bought up bayonetta to round out their mature audience niche.

Xbox is unusual in that their offerings function more like Third Party than a platform holder. I said this before, but my suspicion is that Xbox wants to go Third Party, and in that future all the other companies would no longer be allies but competitors. So Microsoft is going all in GaaS because that is the most profitable path, if you are not going to be paid 30% for being a console platform.

 

[LarknThe4th]

But you are a minority here, like homosexuals and black people.

Weird post, Forza Horizon is an extremely well regarded series amongst critiques and the general consumer, and it is easily on the same level quality wise of anything Sony or Nintendo has put out

The problem that is being highlighted here is they cant(and really shouldn't) be expected to be as consistent as Nintendo and Sony when it comes to producing two or three heavy hitters every year

 

[Gamernyc78]

Thy haven't matched barely Sony since 360 days dont have to be an insider to know tht. Sony's devs are just too good, too experienced, etc.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Is Jez suggesting MS is focusing on multiplayer moving forward?

 

[Hendrick's]

Nice thread title. He sad nothing about quality, merely that MS will not be chasing 3rd person narrative AAA games.

 

[Fbh]

Way to scrub the context.

Makes perfect sense to be honest.
Highly expensive, single player focused games that you can beat in a couple of weeks don't mix well with the subscription services.
If Sony had the equivalent of Gamepass you could pay them $10 this month and play through TLOU2 and Ghost of Tsushima, which probably wouldn't make financial sense for them.

Doesn't mean MS makes worse games or that they'll never release single player games. But IMO if the type of exclusives you want are single player focused games with AAA production values you are probably more likely to find them on ps5 than Series X.

 

[MrFunSocks]

They do. Just not as many.
Good thing you added non-cinematic-linerar single player campaigns to it to disqualify Uncharted 4 MP.
By doing so, aren't you also disqualifying Halo and Gears? Hmm.

Which ones do they make? Uncharted 4 and .......?

Gears and Halo don't have cinematic linear campaigns, so no.

 

[mckmas8808]

Jez means that if you're looking for top tier single player third person story driven games, you'll most likely be disappointed with Xbox Series X. Outside of a few games like Hellblade 2 and perhaps The Initiative's game, majority of games on Series X simply aren't that. This isn't exactly shocking or surprising. I don't want Microsoft to copy Sony as that would be boring. I easily prefer them going in different directions just like Nintendo has their own direction, so does Microsoft and Sony.

You mean, you don't want MS to copy Sony, Nintendo, Rockstar, CD Project RED, etc right? Because making amazing single player games isn't just a Sony thing.

Aren't they, and their studios, also talking about letting the studios make whatever their creative talent wants?

This narrative that MS is forcing people into specific types of games seems to fly in the face of all of that.

I mean, maybe they are.. but I feel like someone they bought would say something at this point... instead it's all "MS is hands off, just gives us budget to do what we want."

I'd be shocked if at least one of their studios isn't directly targeting the types of games that Sony loves to make.. I mean didn't MS specifically poach a ton of talent from Sony studios?

I also think the idea that only GAAS games work for MS financially on Gamepass is flawed as well. Getting subscribers with big SP gmaes could be just as lucrative.. and beyond that.. MS is still in the business of selling $60 games.

In the recent past this hasn't been the case. MS has had develop issues with devs before, because they somewhat push them into directions the original creatives didn't want to go in.

 

[Mr Moose]

Weird post, Forza Horizon is an extremely well regarded series amongst critiques and the general consumer, and it is easily on the same level quality wise of anything Sony or Nintendo has put out

The problem that is being highlighted here is they cant(and really shouldn't) be expected to be as consistent as Nintendo and Sony when it comes to producing two or three heavy hitters every year

I think it is a bait post.
Playground Games, imo, are Microsofts best developer, they have surpassed Turn 10 by far.
I've never played a Fable game but it seems to be in good hands with them.

 

[JonnyMP3]

So Halo and Gears aren't cinematic linear games just because they have a multiplayer component? What self deluded fuckery is this?
Single player campaigns says Hi.

 

[Knitted Knight]

If you're a fan of traditional console practices and you have grown up expecting AAA quality exclusives and content that blow your brains out I don't think there are many ways left for people to tell hardcore Xbox gamers that such path is not the future for Xbox. They can't tell you and won't ever tell you to get a PS5... but they are suggesting it to you as best they can without saying it word for word. They're trying to help you out because you have these expectations that they fail to meet almost every time as you're expecting them to go toe to toe with Sony and they won't - by a combination of inability and choice (a decision).

If you're a hardcore and don't listen aka see the writing on the wall.... that's on you when you make your purchasing decision next gen. If you have the cash to spare to buy more than one console then you're good. PC will not get you anything more than what we already know. Only a PS5 can get you the first class treatment and those exclusives, same for Nintendo if you're into their casual offerings.

 

[bitbydeath]

so you assume I am a fanboy who thinks the games you mentioned should get high scores... well you're wrong.

Well you do appear to be painting with a very large brush.

 

[mckmas8808]

Gears and Halo don't have cinematic linear campaigns, so no.

Have you ever heard of Gears and Halo before? Like seriously!

 

[LarknThe4th]

I think it is a bait post.
Playground Games, imo, are Microsofts best developer, they have surpassed Turn 10 by far.
I've never played a Fable game but it seems to be in good hands with them.

It's why I'm hopeful of them doing well, I think people are sleeping on Obsidian and Playgrounds moves coming into this gen

XBox is more than just Halo and Gears now, I think they will bring some new people in,

And that's good for like all of us, more players in different (healthy)eco systems

I'm excited about what the big 3 have got coming up!

 

[IntentionalPun]

In the recent past this hasn't been the case. MS has had develop issues with devs before, because they somewhat push them into directions the original creatives didn't want to go in.

Right; and now they are attempting to completely flip the narrative on that. Allegedly giving developers whatever freedom they want.

I don't think Jez's comment really vibes with the changes MS is claiming they made, and those changes are backed up by what studios have said as well.

Maybe they are pressuring studios and it's all a lie.. but the "everything is GAAS from Microsoft" narrative just falls flat for me in general. Are people ignoring that Halo Infinite allegedly has an SP campaign as big as Halo 4 and 5 combined? The game might end up sucking.. but they certainly are attempting to create a massive single player game. And then there's studios like Obsidian who we know are working on big SP focused titles too. And of course.. The Initiative, who IIRC is the one who poached a bunch of talent from Sony's studios that do narrative driven games.

 

[Redlancet]

so you assume I am a fanboy who thinks the games you mentioned should get high scores... well you're wrong.

sure jan

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

We're exiting gamings infancy phase.

Multiplayer and/or sandbox gaming will be the next era. Hats off to Microsoft for understanding this.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Very surprising coming from Jez but i'm fine with this.

I can get my Playstation for the elite story driven exclusives (and well because i already have over 100 games on my PS4) and i will most likely get an= next gen Xbox Series S for the GAAS titles. Gotta have that fucking Grounded game lol.

Its a win for me on both fronts.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Gotta love how people apply all these worthless criteria like "third person" or "cinematic"

No, people have asked for big quality, well written single-player experiences for ages. It doesn't matter if its third or first person, or if its "cinematic" (whatever that actually means).

I fully expect them to deliver that with the likes of Hellblade 2, Avowed and Fable. Don't tell me Microsoft acquired all these single-player focused developers just to make GaaS multiplayer games.

 

[JonnyMP3]

Which ones do they make? Uncharted 4 and .......?

Gears and Halo don't have cinematic linear campaigns, so no.

<--- Most Cinematic Trailer ever.
<---Cutscenes and Cinematics



"xBOx dOeSN't dO cINemAtIc" - UnCleanSocks

Maybe you should wash your socks bud. They might be a bit stuck together because I can guarantee no one likes you.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Gotta love how people apply all these worthless criteria like "third person" or "cinematic"

No, people have asked for big quality, well written single-player experiences for ages. It doesn't matter if its third or first person, or if its "cinematic" (whatever that actually means).

I fully expect them to deliver that with the likes of Hellblade 2, Avowed and Fable. Don't tell me Microsoft acquired all these single-player focused developers to make GaaS multiplayer games.

Yeah I agree.

But as I mentioned.. it's been seemingly lost in the Craig Meme shenanigans.. 343i claims that Halo Infinite campaign is as big as Halo 4 and 5 combined, so I think that's gonna be a huge SP game they put out right at launch.

Now maybe the graphics and/or the game will suck.. but it's sort of lost in the noise of accusing the game of being GAAS.

 

[Mr Moose]

Which ones do they make? Uncharted 4 and .......?

Gears and Halo don't have cinematic linear campaigns, so no.

Clicked Home on firefox while writing it and lost what I wrote, gaw!
Gears and Halo have story and cutscenes and are linear, so why not?
GTS, does Bloodborne count? They own the IP but it's not exactly first party and is kinda linear, Fat Princess Adventures (shut up! I am adding this one! lol), Killzone Shadowfall, Does everybody's Golf count? MLB, Knack maybe lol (debatable), DriveClub. I don't think WipeOut counts as AAA since it's just a remaster (same reason I didn't add TLoU 1 and Uncharted shite).

 

[Hobbygaming]

Do people think the game Dreams just doesn't exist or something?

And games like Days Gone. I've spent hundreds of hours in the survival mode in Days Gone it's some of the most fun I've had this gen

 

[ShadowWolf712]

Because Third Party studios are already making these games, and giving Sony 30% cut. The nature of multiplayer games means that they have trouble co-existing with each other, if Sony made one of their own it would take customers away from third party games and thus Sony makes less money than it seems.

This is true. Especially the service-based games trying to get you to keep coming back for the "daily" rewards and chests and bonuses and etc.

On the other hand, single player games are able to co-exist because people can buy it, finish it, and buy another game afterwards.

Also very true. SP titles can be played, finished, you can replay them or move on at your own pace.

Further most third party don't make single player games anymore. So Sony is simply doing their job at rounding out the service Playstation provides by adding games that fill an under-served niche.

Ehhhh... not exactly. Third-parties do indeed still make single player. This isn't near as niche as people want to think.

It's just that AAA is (rather foolishly imo) trending toward service games in pursuit of that Fortnite money. Though it appears a few have noticed the trap and are backtracking.

 

[iamvin22]

Oh I dont believe they will get to that level, they can though reach a "Universal" second tier but still better than everybody below them level

I'm gonna be positive on them, they have a slate of announced titles now that, if they hit, will put them in a good place

All three of them are very different to be honest, I like the variety personally

I agree but Ms internally doesn't have a vision. You can see it in their marketing team.

It will be a tough battle for them going forward because phill wants the netflixs of games model. The thing with that would be the Xbox division at a hardware level would have to be terminated. The company would have to apply itself to all current platform holders. MS can do this and have leverage. They can take on Sony's, Nintendo and stadia back end and provide a ultra ecosystem where every game is cross platform, devs have easy mp dev support per game, each platform can be easily identified through mp, gamepass games on all platforms and they can still pump out their own ms gamepass games exclusive to gamepass. It's a win, win, win.

 

[Yoboman]

So everyone decries Bioware, EA, Bethesda, Activision, 2k etc. For moving to GAAS model. But when MS base their whole first party and console around it, suddenly we are supposed to love it?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

People really think in binary terms don't they?

When Jez says that MS is heading in a sandbox GAAS direction, that doesn't mean all 15 of their studios are focused on making multiplayer/GAAS. It simply means more of their focus is in that direction.

 

[Drewpee]

I really hope it's not a generation of MS pumping out low budget gaas crap for gamepass like grounded and whatever that failed hero game was called.

I think Minecraft Dungeons and Grounded are good examples of the types of games they will be making going forward. I enjoy both and will be on for a few hours every month to complete the content they plan to release on a regular basis.

I think the games are too light on content right now but it works for me because I only have a few hours to play per week anyway these days. Gamers that are used to running through all content in a few days or weeks will be disappointed.

 

[MrFunSocks]

Have you ever heard of Gears and Halo before? Like seriously!

Have you ever played them? They play nothing like the tightly scripted constrained cutscene heavy sony games.

Clicked Home on firefox while writing it and lost what I wrote, gaw!
Gears and Halo have story and cutscenes and are linear, so why not?
GTS, does Bloodborne count? They own the IP but it's not exactly first party and is kinda linear, Fat Princess Adventures (shut up! I am adding this one! lol), Killzone Shadowfall, Does everybody's Golf count? MLB, Knack maybe lol (debatable), DriveClub. I don't think WipeOut counts as AAA since it's just a remaster (same reason I didn't add TLoU 1 and Uncharted shite).

Pretty much none of that counts apart from GTS and Shadowfall.

Also it's amazing that people on a so called "enthusiast gamer forum" still think that GaaS = multiplayer filled with loot boxes lol. Single player games can still be GaaS. Hitman transitioned to GaaS and it was still single player.

 

[Redlancet]

seriusly the way xbox fans talk about sony games its adorable,they live on they own reality

 

[UltimateUnknown]

If Xbox's strategy truly is to focus on GAAS/MP games, then the issue is that most major 3rd party publishers are already focusing on this segment of the market, making it oversaturated. It also doesn't help that every GAAS game wants to monopolise players' time so that they have less available for other games.

This I would say is a large part as to why Sony has found so much sales success with their 1st party games this gen and PS4 in general. They have released story-driven SP games that most of the AAA industry has ignored. This has allowed Sony to round out the PS4's proposition even more where you can get both your GAAS/MP games from 3rd parties, and also your story-driven SP games for the people that are starving for those experiences. And the sales show a lot of people just want to play a good SP games.

As a console manufacturer it's important to provide as broad a game library as possible for your console that covers a breadth of experiences for a large userbase. At this point MS may be heading towards a direction where their console is oversaturated with a certain type of games and not attracting the large number of people who want other types of games.

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

Doesn't mean they shouldn't try.

"Most powerful console"

 

[Redlancet]

Have you ever played them? They play nothing like the tightly scripted constrained cutscene heavy sony games.

xbox fans keep repeating this shit as if was true,keep the good fight my man

 

[lastmessiah]

Whenever people make these arguments, it is always "Xbox doesn't make exclusive games except for <list of Xbox exclusive games>". That's not how argument works - you can't just dismiss the very thing that you are arguing about, lol.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Yeah I agree.

But as I mentioned.. it's been seemingly lost in the Craig Meme shenanigans.. 343i claims that Halo Infinite campaign is as big as Halo 4 and 5 combined, so I think that's gonna be a huge SP game they put out right at launch.

Now maybe the graphics and/or the game will suck.. but it's sort of lost in the noise of accusing the game of being GAAS.

Yeah, I don't think you're wrong there. Love the Craig memes but I don't care about Halo's graphics. Gameplay has always been steller so as long as they deliver a meaty SP with good writing that's all I could really ask for.

 

[CatLady]

They're just going a different way... for a different crowd.

I've been tough enough on their games but they have an audience and thinking about it, I shouldn't be dunking on the hard work of people at these studios. They have a vision and because it doesn't align with what I want, doesn't mean it has any less value to others.

I'm sure someone will say something disparaging PS5 in the next while and trigger me into saying some nonsense but I want any XBox users here to know I like you all and want you to have a great launch and enjoy every moment of your new console.

Thank you, Bryank! I personally don't like most Sony games except HZD and to a lesser extent TLOU 1. It doesn't mean they are bad games, it just means they aren't games for me.

Xbox will most likely have a few 3rd person linear cinematic narrative driven games and I'm good with that as long as they have great stories. Hellblade 2 will certainly fit that genre and if the story is as intense and engaging as the first one I'll love it. I actually enjoy that kind of game in limited doses as long as it has a great story. I just don't want Xbox to be overloaded with those types of games.

Like Jez said if that's what you're looking for you're better off getting a PS5. I'm not looking for that. I prefer shooters and non-linear action games with great game play and stories and I especially like open world WRPGs which have been lacking in both consoles first party studios. Fortunately for me Xbox has now acquired/created several great RPG studios so I'm looking forward to many hours of WRPG goodness next gen.

You love Sony games and aren't interested in Xbox games. We have different tastes in games and there is nothing wrong with that. It would be boring if we were all the same.

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

nah, I'm just not a braindead fanboy who eats up these mediocre games and expects actually good Gamedesign from "quality" games.

know what's not good Gamedesign? when the first 30 to 40 minutes of your game consists of holding the left stick forward for half of it and watching wannabe hollywood cutscenes for the other half

This is what the kids call a ‘salty boy’ right?

 

[NullZ3r0]

Sony will never produce AAA FPS, RPGs, arcade racers and 2D Metroidvania games. In fact, it seems all Sony can do is 3rd person cinematic games. Not much diversity. If you want diversity, come to Xbox.

 

[ZehDon]

If everyone was making third person cinematic games with a focus on mo capped cutscenes, I'd stop playing games entirely. While it's nice to have a 'God of War' once a generation, I'm thankful that games like Halo, Sea of Thieves, Killer Instinct, Grounded, Ori, etc., exist too. Call me old fashioned, but I appreciate a breadth of experiences, and I'm glad Microsoft are doing their own thing. I can only take some many Sony-style "movie games" before I have to tap out, and need throw on Halo MP or play Supreme Commander to remember why I game in the first place.

 

[Ten_Fold]

Microsoft got the money, they got the most powerful next gen, we just want big AAA new IP on a similar level to what Sony put out on the PS4 and to some degree the PS3. Fable is cool, but probably won’t be out for another 2-3 years.