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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Sinthor

Gold Member
Right.. that's my main concern I've brought up a bunch here.

That MS has sold their leadership on the future of Xbox by claiming xCloud will bring in millions and millions of customers.

They didn't get Satya on board by saying "We can probably sell another 50 million consoles next gen!".. they did it with that BS "ONE BILLLLION GAMERS with XCloud!" crap.

I think cloud gaming is either incredibly far off, or will die a miserable death within a decade personally.

Totally agree with this. The US doesn't have the bandwidth to support HD gaming let alone 4k gaming and beyond, and that's just the US. A lot of Europe is better off bandwidth wise and I'm sure other places too. But bottom line, to have millions and millions of successful streaming gamers...I don't think the infrastructure is close yet.

This all just reminds me of the standard IT industry over the past decades. Workstations were all going away because of RDP and terminal server...didn't happen, workstations get smaller and more powerful. Thin clients will take over..no more workstations- didn't happen, workstations get smaller and more powerful. Bottom line, things keep getting more powerful and more accessible. I don't see Cloud suddenly being the magical savior that changes the game and takes away our need to have powerful, local hardware at our fingertips. Eventually maybe I'll be wrong...but I just don't see it.
 
Were you referring to Kaleb? Looking at his account he doesn’t appear to be linked to Tom’s Hardware that I can see. Looks like a guess.
This is what the video description says, it looks like it's just a talk about the recent patent.

C6l1m72.png
 
But this time they are launching a next generation console without first party next generation software, leaving it up to third parties to just fill in the gap. That does not seem like a good business strategy; to basically let some other game studios determine your fate. I cannot believe Microsoft ended up in this unenviable position for any other reason than hubris.

Assuming that this trajectory continues, that it is truly representative, how does this situation get any better? It looks years too late to fix. They drew their cards, and now they have little choice but to play them. Microsoft told us back in January that their next generation software was years behind schedule, and it seems the bombshell took a while to sink in. Normally, the launch would be delayed until everything was ready. Is anyone expecting that the PS5 will be plagued with problems for the early years, allowing Microsoft to make a mid-gen comeback, like what happened between the PS3 and 360 in the late 2000s?

What is likely coming is the ‘valley of death’, a terrifying abyss of fleeing customers that probably will not abate until some time in 2022 or 2023. Until then, the Game Pass service will be the main attraction, and MS will have to pay through the nose to keep it stocked with something compelling to play. Meanwhile, some third parties will rally around the dominate platform that is unlikely to be rivaled technologically until something like RDNA 3 becomes widespread in the PC market. These feedback loops will probably not be easy to counter.

What will Xbox’s next-gen market share look like in 2022? Less than ten million? The PS5 might have sold 30 million by then. Now, if MS’s studios put out truly compelling content, I would expect them to at least have an audience, but will it be large enough to keep them in the console business?
I’m no CEO or head of Xbox, but I think Phil dropped the ball on this one. He had time to make this launch better.

2018 -> Consult studios on their projects before acquisition and see if there’s something worth salvaging for 2020. Aproach the studios and say “Hey, we’ll give you creative freedom and whatever but we need this ready for 2020!”. Major remanaging to ensure old 1st party studios and projects are on track and in good shape (343i). Put the HIGHEST priority on the XSX version of the games.
2019 -> Try to keep the playerbase afloat with Game Pass and support 1st party around the clock, no waiting for a Halo demo situation to fix things.
2020 -> Sort things out, see what projects can go on to be launch titles, launch year titles or beyond. Space them to keep a steady flow after launch.

IMO, it feels like Phil bought a bunch of studios and gave a blank cheque and said “Here’s infinite money, now do your thing” without even trying to put everyone working in tandem for a console launch.
 

Sinthor

Gold Member
I'm genuinely asking, who exactly is MS target-audience with Lockhart?

From what we know, it's the hardcore who adopt to new hardware at launch of a new-gen, casuals/folks with less disposable income join after few price cuts/promotions. Your hardcore will be much more interested in higher-spec machine in Series X at launch. Also, isn't the idea of a cheaper next-gen machine at launch to target the latter crowd instead of hardcore? Or an entirely new set of consumers where the appeal is cheaper hardware, and cheaper software (see $10 GS, heck I could see them offering 3 month free with every console).

If they are that keen on hitting a particular price-point, then just eat the losses, instead of cutting essential features like a controller.

The danger I see with a lockhart box is that typically your higher end hardware has more profit and profit margin. I fear that a lockhart that's really cheap enough to make a splash threatens to cannibalize their sales of the series X. I think that could force MS to abandon the hardware market eventually. Not enough profit. But we will see. What if lockhart turns out NOT to be so gimped but is basically like the PS5 digital?
 

bitbydeath

Member
The danger I see with a lockhart box is that typically your higher end hardware has more profit and profit margin. I fear that a lockhart that's really cheap enough to make a splash threatens to cannibalize their sales of the series X. I think that could force MS to abandon the hardware market eventually. Not enough profit. But we will see. What if lockhart turns out NOT to be so gimped but is basically like the PS5 digital?

That’d be better. Still undercut Sonys price by removing the controller + blu-ray without needing to sabotage their own product specs.
 
If I were Microsoft and I wanted Xbox to have a Nintendo Switch like success, I wouldn’t just try to make a PlayStation clone. Xbox is made by Microsoft and they make Windows. Best way to make Xbox hardware unique (like Switch hardware is unique) is to let Xbox run Windows. Full Windows 10 with Windows store, Steam, Epic store, EA, PS store, and apps like Office, Adobe, CAD, etc. Target PC gamers on budget, or the pre-built market, or get streamers to use it, etc. (And sure they could also make console versions that are just regular Xbox consoles.)

Imagine the Xbox Series X Windows Edition
Windows 10 OS
8 Zen 2 cores @ 3.8 GHz
52 CUs @ 1.825 GHz
16 GB DDR4 3200 MHz
10 GB GDRR6 @ 560 GB/s
1 TB NVMe SSD @ 2.4 GB/s
1 TB SATA HDD (backup storage)
no disc drive
Display port 1.4b, HDMI 2.1
USB-A x3, USB-C x2
~ 325 W PSU

Good luck building that spec gaming PC for less than $1000. If I were Microsoft, I’d take Series X, reconfigure the memory and ports to be more PC like, and let the thing run Windows. Sell it for like $600. Easy way to be unique and different from PS5.

If the Xbox ends up having the freedom of a regular PC, does that not make it more difficult for MS to direct transactions to their coffers? Also, I wonder whether there would be issues with background tasks interfering with gameplay? When the console is turned on, will a boot loader provide the option for loading Windows 10 or XboxOS? How about managing storage? Will XBoxOS be able to see and manipulate the Windows dedicated storage partition? It all sounds like a support headache.
 

Sinthor

Gold Member
One last question. Do you think this is machine learning?

I THINK the difference between "machine learning" and "deep learning" is that deep learning is typically tied to a "brain" that does not get deleted and continues to develop over time. Kind of a persistent sub-AI. At least that's what I'm seeing in the cyber security software product lines right now. Some anti-virus tools have "machine learning" which reacts to suspicious behavior and saves the remediation so it knows to quarantine, isolate or allow the activity in the future where products with "deep learning" actually link to what they're calling a sort of 'neural network' and brain that is persistent and develops over time. So kind of like a persistent, cloud version of machine learning...to over simplify it? Again, that's what I'm seeing in cyber security at any rate.
 

roops67

Member
What I understand of what's been mentioned about PS5 will have AI that will be continuously watching and learning your play. This could be one part of the deep learning mentioned and would unlikely be using GPU resources as it needs to be constantly analyzing, so again offloaded another block of (tensor like?) hardware. Only speculation so could be totally wrong, cos the PS5 is already pretty heavy with a lot of custom hardware (bearing in mind the rumoured 'GPU decoupled' ray-tracing!)!
 
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Sinthor

Gold Member
What I understand of what's been mentioned about PS5 will have AI that will be continuously watching and learning your play. This could be part of the deep learning mentioned and would unlikely be using GPU resources as it needs to be constantly analyzing, so again offloaded another block of (tensor like?) hardware. Only speculation so could be totally wrong

Yep, that would be deep learning then...probably offloading those 'observations' to a neural network type 'brain.' One of the things I forgot in my earlier simple definition of the machine learning via deep learning is that MACHINE learning generally needs input given to the algorithms first. Instructions if you will. For deep learning that structure isn't required. It uses multiple layers of machine learning to make it's own input and categorizations. Very cool stuff!
 

silent head

Member

You know when Sony does things thy go a little extra :) like I've been saying Sony always has something similar or better and don't lag behind 🔥🔥🔥. I mean it's it's been the same with their apis, dx12 response, other features, etc tht has been consistent all through these gens so I don't know why ppl say "well this box has this but Sony doesn't" 😂 😂 ppl always taking loses and don't learn.

:messenger_smiling_hearts:

E7leHzQ.gif
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
Well, I still think that what we're seeing is a result of Microsoft initially having decided to exit the console hardware market. Years ago they started shedding development teams which looked to me to be a signal that they were NOT going to wait around with endlessly deep pockets throwing money into the console race. I believe they had decided or almost decided at that point, to concentrate on gaming as a service and stick to the software game, where Microsoft has often been wildly successful. This changed about two years ago when they started acquiring developers again. I believe that someone had won an internal battle at that time (maybe Phil?) and convinced company management that hardware dreams weren't dead. But...they didn't TOTALLY win the argument. So they 'split the baby.'

So what we have is Microsoft going after their "Xbox as a platform" software only strategy. That is why the focus has been on games that will run on XSX, XB1 and even mobile. This is cool for gamers, IMHO by the way as buying one copy of a game and run it on your new XSX, let the kids run the same copy on the 'hand me down' XB1 and then let you run the same game on your phone while at work (on break of course! :) ). So that is Microsofts master and main plan right now, make no mistake about it. I believe they will push Game Pass much harder and eventually start offering that via other gaming platforms once they exit the hardware arena.

On the other hand, they had plans for a very powerful hardware console. So they went ahead and finished the design and released it. This whole decision on whether to exit hardware or not, again, IMO only, is the probable reason that it has been reported that MS was behind on dev kits. I believe they had the XSX design finished and had progressed to a point but put it on hold until they decided to go ahead with the release again. So the design was done (no last minute rush jobs) but they were behind in the testing and hardware iteration game by just a little bit. So again, they've decided to go ahead and release the XSX. BUT, their focus is still and CLEARLY on the games as a service "Xbox as a platform" model and NOT on hardware. They had another problem as well, that we're seeing now. Because they had decided to exit the hardware business (maybe even the gaming market itself?) they had shed many of their development houses, even the crown jewel of Bungie. They started re-acquiring as previously mentioned, but many of those teams just got brough on board a year or two ago. So they are not in a position to have XSX specific titles ready for launch. In fact, they may not have any, or at least very few, until 2022 or so. For this reason, they are continuing to double down on the "Xbox as a platform" model.

Look, Microsoft has a great piece of hardware coming out. It's very capable. But because they waffled in the decision making, it is behind the curve as far as software. That's ok with MS. They basically at this point want to sell units to their loyal base and use the XSX to gin up excitement about xCloud and GamePass. I believe this is because their cloud technology will allow them to stream games as a service to ANY platform in the future...perhaps even Playstation.

So all my opinion and conjecture, obviously, but I think there's some solid reasons to believe this is the case. Microsoft knows what they're doing, so them not having software to show on their supposedly flagship product and other issues we've seen has to have SOME cause and I don't think it's likely to be the result of just Microsoft being stupid or making huge mistakes. I think it's evidence of a shift in strategy and a TOTAL shift that for some reason they re-thought down the line. If the XSX is wildly successful, I think they would probably re-think this again and STAY in the hardware market. But if it sells like XB1, I think they will use this as their last hardware generation and use it to transition to a software only model.

Time will tell.

Even if this was all true, MS wouldn't necessarily need to leave the hardware market if sales were flat. As long as you aren't losing a ton of money on each hardware revision, keeping the console around as an option for those that want it isn't that big of a stretch. Even the R&D costs would be covered by the streaming service (you've got to have a target platform of some kind for devs to optimize against). Assuming, of course, that gaming as a whole remains profitable for MS.

I think it's great that the paths of Sony and MS appear to have diverged (at least from the outside). That's a lot more interesting than everyone doing the same thing.
 

roops67

Member
Yep, that would be deep learning then...probably offloading those 'observations' to a neural network type 'brain.' One of the things I forgot in my earlier simple definition of the machine learning via deep learning is that MACHINE learning generally needs input given to the algorithms first. Instructions if you will. For deep learning that structure isn't required. It uses multiple layers of machine learning to make it's own input and categorizations. Very cool stuff!
Sinthor I have added to my post after you quoted me. But yeah it will be cool if that's how they're doing the AI
 

Vaztu

Member
I would prefer if they engaged in fierce competition with Sony but if they don't want that it's their brand so they can do what they want with it.

Yeah I want fierce competition too. Its healthy for us gamers if companies are on their toes. But its not like the competition isnt there because of change in focus for MS. They are still competing for money from gamers' pockets.

If MS GaaS model is successful, Sony will follow that model. Us hardcore gamers may not like that but if the market trends that way, companies will chase it.


Is MS really aiming for "GAAS" that much?

Most of their games feel like.. classical AAA games.. with microtransations (which at this point, are what most AAA games have.)

Other than Sea of Thieves is anything they produce really GAAS?

People keep claiming Halo Infinite is going to be.. but MS said the game has more SP content than Halo 4 and 5 combined. I also don't think Obsidian is making a GAAS style game.. MS's studios have basically claimed that MS is letting them make whatever they want to make.. I doubt they all signed up for GAAS.

Now some of that is GAAS and some of that is not. Games like Avowed, Fable, Hellblade II, the singleplayer portions of Halo and Gears, likely InXile's game, The Initiative's game, Compulsion's game and Doublefine's game (thought they could release a few AA games instead) won't be GAAS but instead singleplayer and story driven (the stuff Sony fans like).

Oh... and all that stuff will be on Game Pass. Xbox is gonna be amazing this gen, but it'll take some time to fight the current hardcore gaming narrative around here and other forums.


Well, we have to first know what GaaS really means. From Wiki article (Link):

In the video game industry, games as a service (GaaS) represents providing video games or game content on a continuing revenue model, similar to software as a service. Games as a service are ways to monetize video games either after their initial sale, or to support a free-to-play model

If we go by this definition, AAA games and GaaS model can overlap. Single Player can be GaaS as well. By this definition, Halo Infinite is GaaS. MP is F2P and SP is fractured story. They will keep adding onto Halo Infinite for a decade. The name of the game is not going away for long time. Grounded is not finished, and it remains to be seen whether by launch they will only have one section of the map available to play. Then, they keep unlocking other sections of the map in the years to come; or if its finished game by launch.

I can't speak for other games because we haven't properly seen them yet. Flight Sim is a classical Triple-A game thats complete from launch(guessing here, hoping there is no re-occurring revenue model).

Again, GamePass is GaaS. Now, the problem with hardcore gamers accepting GaaS seems to be everywhere. Speaking for myself, the whole fractured experience that GaaS brings is offputting. I want finished games Day 1. I dont want to keep coming back to the same art style and play years down the line. Still playing Halo Infinite in 2030 ? Thats not appealing to me.

What I fear is games coming for Gamepass Day 1 will aim for the budget Gamepass allows. So, Gamepass may look lucrative in the short-term, but long term the games will morph into Gamepass' budget - which will be mostly shovelware except for some diamonds. Like we see in Netflix.
 

SaucyJack

Member
Whats the xbox going into next gen chalkboard so far?

-Xcloud/streaming will save xbox
-12 teraflop GPU Will make ps5 look last gen
-Cyber punk on games pass
-Sony is a mess behind the scenes since theyre so quiet
-Gamespass, gAMESPASS, Gamespass!!!
-New first party studios will compete with sonys
-Sony is Anti consumer
-Xbox live will be free
-Halo will look incredible
-Japanese support will increase because Gamespass
-Cross gen wont effect how next gen games look
-Passion projects
-PS5 Controller only working with ps5 games is anti consumer


Next up: Lockheart will save Xbox

Microsoft doesn’t care about hardware.
 

ToadMan

Member
I think that's their last generation as a console. Next gen probably they will be services only. Gamepass on pc,tv, smartphone and probably PS6. I don't like this scenarios with monopol for SONY.

I don’t think even in the MS ditches custom hardware scenario Sony end up with a monopoly.

Some competitor will step up to try and take some market share. I think Samsung or LG might look into it since a gaming console suits their portfolio much like it does Sony.

Perhaps Apple would step into that space - they already have the software and hardware baselines.

And maybe even dear old Nintendo start to scale up their tech again given they’ve got the baseline for an online environment already in place.

The only question is whether any of these would do a better job than MS (or indeed Sony) and genuinely make inroads into the market. I think Samsung, LG and Apple could all do something that fits with their product portfolio. Nintendo not so likely because it’s not their dna at the moment to chase power.
 
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Vae_Victis

Banned


Imagine if this is true? They will be creating free marketing points for Sony.

I can already envision a video titled "This is how you play on PS5"

This makes no sense whatsoever.

Controllers are one of the cheapest parts of a console to produce and are usually sold at a huge premium.

If Microsoft took out the controller from the console, they would be saving $10-$15 on their end. Sure, you could push the price of Lockhart down maybe an extra $25 for those who are already set with Xbox One controllers... but they would also in practice push it $25 UP for everybody else (assuming a controller on its own will retail for about $50).

I'm not saying this can't be a strategy, but it's definitely not a strategy that can expand your marketshare when you are already the underdog. If anything, if Lockhart costs around $300 to ship, they might as well sell it for $299 and throw in a SECOND controller to increase the perceived value of the package (not saying it's going to happen, but as a "bold strategy" it would make a lot more sense than the opposite).
 
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FeiRR

Banned
I have a feeling we won't be seeing a back button attachment for the DualSense, unless they make some type of 'Pro' controller, those metal plates next to the headphone back are probably only for the charging the controller, so you can just drop it on the charge base instead of having to deal with a port to align.
They're not only for charging, it's a connector, exactly the same as with DS4. I bought the button attachment and, besides not being able to really adapt to it which is my fault, the problem is I have the official charging station and I find it very convenient but to charge the controller with the back button attachment you need to remove it. Which takes some time and isn't very easy (it sits very tight in the slot). The result is that I don't use the attachment at all. It was wasted money for me.

Xbox has announced many AAA games:
There are two problems: those games are years away. I want a new console right now so I'm buying PS5. When I already have a new console, I won't be thinking about getting another one. Not a money problem but a practical problem of having no time to play more games. The other problem is: I've seen Halo Infinite, their flagship title. It's a piece of crap so I'm not even waiting to see the other games in 2-3 years because Halo killed all my hopes for XSX to be good.

Sure but overtime pc gaming is getting better and better, my last consoles were ps3/360/wii. With ps4/one I preferred PC and hope Sonybis gonna convince me to buy a PS5 but for the moment I stick with PC
Some good AAA exclusives for PC you could recommend? I have a PC and would like to try some great games which I can enjoy only there. I know about Star Citizen, I've been waiting for it to release without beta for, like, 10 years now?

Xbox has another big one coming but I would imagine its a year out at least.
One game isn't going to sell many consoles, no matter what it is.

If I were Microsoft and I wanted Xbox to have a Nintendo Switch like success, I wouldn’t just try to make a PlayStation clone. Xbox is made by Microsoft and they make Windows. Best way to make Xbox hardware unique (like Switch hardware is unique) is to let Xbox run Windows. Full Windows 10 with Windows store, Steam, Epic store, EA, PS store, and apps like Office, Adobe, CAD, etc. Target PC gamers on budget, or the pre-built market, or get streamers to use it, etc. (And sure they could also make console versions that are just regular Xbox consoles.)
Sounds like a great idea but it's not technologically possible to make Xbox compatible with all existing Windows software with a magic touch. It'd require years and millions over millions in investment. Unless they started doing it in secret a long time ago, it's not going to happen. I think they'll do it the opposite: Lockhart is a Surface for gamers which plays Xbox games through xCloud.

Well Google makes their own smartphones now. So sorta yeah. Android users still have choice, but there’s the Pixel if someone wants a Google phone software+hardware, or they can buy Samsung etc. Before, Google didn’t want to make their own hardware, but they made it work somehow.
Google makes Pixel phones now because they bought Motorola and before they did, Motorola made Google branded phones for them. You can't just start making phones if you don't know how, no matter how much cash you have.

They tried. Twice!
As I've mentioned previously, it was Zune vs iPod and Lumia vs iPhone.
Microsoft barely made a blip with either devices.
Microsoft dominated the smartphone market before Android got big. Apple phones are 10% of the worldwide market, even if you think they dominate it when you live in a rich country. By the way, Microsoft fucked up royally their domination in just a few years.

Well according to @Gavin Stevens that's what he was told.

No idea why there's that contradiction unless somebody is mixing ML with DL.
Haven't you noticed that the pigeon guy is a fake?
 
I'm almost sure thats last microsoft console. And I'm almost sure that PS6 will be digital only.
So basically MS is going the way of Sega? How did the XB1 fare compared to Dreamcast? Can we honestly say that the MS has had Sega like failures? I've seen no evidence that MS is pulling out of the hardware market. Even as a Sony fan why would you want this? Aren't you a gamer?
 

FeiRR

Banned
Totally agree with this. The US doesn't have the bandwidth to support HD gaming let alone 4k gaming and beyond, and that's just the US. A lot of Europe is better off bandwidth wise and I'm sure other places too. But bottom line, to have millions and millions of successful streaming gamers...I don't think the infrastructure is close yet.
The problem isn't only the bandwidth but, most of all, latency. You can build more infrastructure and expand speeds but you can't bend the laws of physics to have no lag. If your datacenter is far, the lag will stay. Having worked from home for months now, I feel even more put off by that. My work is with people and it requires immediate reaction to what other people say. After a few hours of micro-delays in communication and having to repeat things over and over again because noise-cancelling cuts out half of the sentence, I feel more tired that while doing the same job directly. It is very similar to playing a game from a cloud, especially a game which requires quick response. I'll survive that at work because there's no choice. But with games, I will always choose local gaming, well, at least until we get quantum internet.
 

SaucyJack

Member
Xbox has announced many AAA games:

Halo Infinite
Forza Motorsport
Fable
Avowed
State of Decay 3
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II
Everwild
Age of Empires 4
Flight Simulator

And then we have a ton of unannounced stuff:

Gears 6 (likely)
InXile's AAA game
The Initiative's AAA (AAAA!) game
Forza Horizon 5 (Likely)
Compulsion's next project (they are staffing up to 100+ people, so likely AAA or close)
And who knows what Doublefine will be doing?

Now some of that is GAAS and some of that is not. Games like Avowed, Fable, Hellblade II, the singleplayer portions of Halo and Gears, likely InXile's game, The Initiative's game, Compulsion's game and Doublefine's game (thought they could release a few AA games instead) won't be GAAS but instead singleplayer and story driven (the stuff Sony fans like).

Oh... and all that stuff will be on Game Pass. Xbox is gonna be amazing this gen, but it'll take some time to fight the current hardcore gaming narrative around here and other forums.

The issue is not that Xbox doesn’t have some potentially great games in the pipeline, they clearly do. The issue is that hardly anything looks like it’s coming in 2020/21 - except for Halo which has become a standing joke.

That is some pretty incompetent console launch mismanagement.
 
Xbox has announced many AAA games:

Halo Infinite
Forza Motorsport
Fable
Avowed
State of Decay 3
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II
Everwild
Age of Empires 4
Flight Simulator

And then we have a ton of unannounced stuff:

Gears 6 (likely)
InXile's AAA game
The Initiative's AAA (AAAA!) game
Forza Horizon 5 (Likely)
Compulsion's next project (they are staffing up to 100+ people, so likely AAA or close)
And who knows what Doublefine will be doing?

Now some of that is GAAS and some of that is not. Games like Avowed, Fable, Hellblade II, the singleplayer portions of Halo and Gears, likely InXile's game, The Initiative's game, Compulsion's game and Doublefine's game (thought they could release a few AA games instead) won't be GAAS but instead singleplayer and story driven (the stuff Sony fans like).

Oh... and all that stuff will be on Game Pass. Xbox is gonna be amazing this gen, but it'll take some time to fight the current hardcore gaming narrative around here and other forums.
Many of those games are at least 2022, some them are secuels from games far of be relevant:

Halo Infinite: game of this current gen also is a game as service because looks like 343 needs to be equals to Bungie even in that
Forza Motorsport: ok 2022
Fable: a promise for 2022 only that
Avowed: ok 2022
State of Decay 3: not just not
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II: ok 2022
Everwild: 2022 not even Rare knows what all the mechanics will introduce also Rare has decades without something really good
Age of Empires 4: ok
Flight Simulator: ok but man this basically a simulator for a niche or for people who want to benchmark their PCs

Gears 6 (likely): if you want we can include Gears 7 and 8 also, man really lest wait a couple of years first
InXile's AAA game: just wait their first release its game this year
The Initiative's AAA (AAAA!) game: another 500 million title like Halo Infinite, the money doesn't make AAA a good game
Forza Horizon 5 (Likely): they are working in Fable
Compulsion's next project (they are staffing up to 100+ people, so likely AAA or close): not please not
Doublefine: please really wait they release its current game before they start another one

Under your logic Sony and Microsoft are scrub because Nintendo has many more IPs which are much more relevant than any of both
and in the reality doesn't works in that way, the console cannot live only with promises even the Wii U which was a failure for NIntendo
have same quantity of games closer of be a GOTY (TLoZBoW,Mario 3d world, Smash,Bayonetta) than Xbox one (Forza horizon 3,Forza horizon 4 ,Ori and the will of the wisp).

Even in sales this are stronger IPs, with a huge difference:
 
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zaitsu

Banned
Many of those games are at least 2022, some them are secuels from games far of be relevant:

Halo Infinite: game of this current gen also is a game as service because looks like 343 needs to be equals to Bungie even in that
Forza Motorsport: ok 2022
Fable: a promise for 2022 only that
Avowed: ok 2022
State of Decay 3: not just not
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II: ok 2022
Everwild: 2022 not even Rare knows what all the mechanics will introduce also Rare has decades without something really good
Age of Empires 4: ok
Flight Simulator: ok but man this basically a simulator for a niche or for people who want to benchmark their PCs

Gears 6 (likely): if you want we can include Gears 7 and 8 also, man really lest wait a couple of years first
InXile's AAA game: just wait their first release its game this year
The Initiative's AAA (AAAA!) game: another 500 million title like Halo Infinite, the money doesn't make AAA a good game
Forza Horizon 5 (Likely): they are working in Fable
Compulsion's next project (they are staffing up to 100+ people, so likely AAA or close): not please not
Doublefine: please really wait they release its current game before they start another one

Under your logic Sony and Microsoft are scrub because Nintendo has many more IPs which are much more relevant than any of both
and in the reality doesn't works in that way, the console cannot live only with promises even the Wii U which was a failure for NIntendo
have same quantity of games closer of be a GOTY (TLoZBoW,Mario 3d world, Smash,Bayonetta) than Xbox one (Forza horizon 3,Forza horizon 4 ,Ori and the will of the wisp).

Even in sales this are stronger IPs, with a huge difference:

It's funny I bought switch for zelda and it ends up only game I've played on switch. I have no interest in other Nintendo titles and still it was worth for me. Xbox had quantum break for me this gen. It was 8/10 game for me. But like switch it was one and only game worth buying xbox this gen for me. I won't count how may Sony exclusives I've liked because it would be most of them. AAA Singleplayer gamer place is with playstation, because thats their main focus.
 
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It's funny I bought switch for zelda and it ends up only game I've played on switch. I have no interest in other Nintendo titles and still it was worth for me.
Because someway Nintendo was able to release probably one the best game as its first exclusive, something almost impossible to do.

But my point was if Xbox cannot compete in sales of again Sony and Nintendo because basically even before their put your games in
gamepass only Halo 5 reach 5 million of units, now we don't have numbers because Xbox love to communicate as we know then you
will think well they will compete with AAA and AA contest GoTY but your best was Forza Horizon 3 and 4 that means until now all the title
announce for Xbox are promise of this will improve.
 

Dibils2k

Member
You know, it's funny how perspective changes everything, right? So when Chrysler started offering electronic anti-lock brakes in the early 70's that was anti-consumer? Any number of other examples. Apple's app store..anti consumer. It all depends on the consumer, right? For the consumers of a specific brand, like in this case, some exclusive bell and whistle are advantages or bonuses. If we're going to call all such things that don't expressly work to the benefit of ALL consumers 'anti-consumer' then we're going to be busy beavers indeed.

I get what people are saying, but exclusivity deals, while being annoying for those impacted more negatively, are also POSITIVE for other consumers. Given the install base disparity between Sony and MS, one COULD argue that these deals benefit the vast majority of the console gaming consumers.

Bottom line, I get it. The complaints are fine as well- it is what it is. I remember people complaining non-stop over Microsoft's 'moneyhat' deals in the 360 era. But in the end, that was Microsoft trying to expand their position radically and compete against an established market leader. I'm not sure that was a major factor, but the 360 generation was certainly their most successful.

I don't personally like exclusivity and even timed exclusivity deals, because they potentially have a negative effect on me. For example, I'd like to play Hellblade 2 as soon as it comes out- I really liked the first one. But...Microsoft is going to use this, whether as a full exclusive or a timed one, to try and drive adoption of their hardware product. I respect that.

I just really don't think there's any way to do away with these types of deals. Manufacturers of ANY product will always try to include features above and beyond their competition to give themselves an advantage. It just strikes me as a bit entitled to try and couch any such situation as 'anti-consumer' as if all consumers are a monolith or that there's one 'pro consumer' way of doing things. Not ripping on anyone complaining about this- this is just my opinion on it after thinking about the issue over the years and in more than just the gaming market.
but no i dont think you are grasping it... sony are paying to keep it away from others, not build it

if there is no deal, spiderman still comes to Avengers

so its nothing like the examples you gave.

they are not adding value to their customers...
 
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LokusAbriss

Member
Many of those games are at least 2022, some them are secuels from games far of be relevant:

Halo Infinite: game of this current gen also is a game as service because looks like 343 needs to be equals to Bungie even in that
Forza Motorsport: ok 2022
Fable: a promise for 2022 only that
Avowed: ok 2022
State of Decay 3: not just not
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II: ok 2022
Everwild: 2022 not even Rare knows what all the mechanics will introduce also Rare has decades without something really good
Age of Empires 4: ok
Flight Simulator: ok but man this basically a simulator for a niche or for people who want to benchmark their PCs

Gears 6 (likely): if you want we can include Gears 7 and 8 also, man really lest wait a couple of years first
InXile's AAA game: just wait their first release its game this year
The Initiative's AAA (AAAA!) game: another 500 million title like Halo Infinite, the money doesn't make AAA a good game
Forza Horizon 5 (Likely): they are working in Fable
Compulsion's next project (they are staffing up to 100+ people, so likely AAA or close): not please not
Doublefine: please really wait they release its current game before they start another one

Under your logic Sony and Microsoft are scrub because Nintendo has many more IPs which are much more relevant than any of both
and in the reality doesn't works in that way, the console cannot live only with promises even the Wii U which was a failure for NIntendo
have same quantity of games closer of be a GOTY (TLoZBoW,Mario 3d world, Smash,Bayonetta) than Xbox one (Forza horizon 3,Forza horizon 4 ,Ori and the will of the wisp).

Even in sales this are stronger IPs, with a huge difference:

Is there actually a confirmed list of launch games for both new consoles? The communication from both companies is confusing. By watching closer, it seems that neither XSX or PS5 have much to offer at launch! Making it very hard to judge which console to buy. Or maybe wait a year for games to come out. I don't want to play current gen games on new hardware only.
 
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Gediminas

Banned
but no i dont think you are grasping it... sony are paying to keep it away from others, not build it

if there is no deal, spiderman still comes to Avengers

so its nothing like the examples you gave.

they are not adding value to their customers...
More tales from your ass? Have you hard proves that they are keeping it and paying?
Did you read crystal dynamic respond?
Spider man now is sony's ip. Deal with it.
How they are not adding any value? Right here we are getting Spider Man for Free. It is huge value.
 

PlayVerso

Member
Xbox has announced many AAA games:

Halo Infinite
Forza Motorsport
Fable
Avowed
State of Decay 3
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II
Everwild
Age of Empires 4
Flight Simulator

And then we have a ton of unannounced stuff:

Gears 6 (likely)
InXile's AAA game
The Initiative's AAA (AAAA!) game
Forza Horizon 5 (Likely)
Compulsion's next project (they are staffing up to 100+ people, so likely AAA or close)
And who knows what Doublefine will be doing?

Now some of that is GAAS and some of that is not. Games like Avowed, Fable, Hellblade II, the singleplayer portions of Halo and Gears, likely InXile's game, The Initiative's game, Compulsion's game and Doublefine's game (thought they could release a few AA games instead) won't be GAAS but instead singleplayer and story driven (the stuff Sony fans like).

Oh... and all that stuff will be on Game Pass. Xbox is gonna be amazing this gen, but it'll take some time to fight the current hardcore gaming narrative around here and other forums.

HellBlade was not a triple A development, something that the studio itself claimed, it was an exclusive game for PS4 and PC for a while, that means that a large part of its sales were from Sony and PC, HellBlade 2 will now be limited to PC and GamePass , I don't think HellBlade 2 has a big triple-A budget.
State of Decay I do not think it is a triple A IP either, since it is a game focused on action without any development in its narrative and with a rather limited technical section.
EverWild is soon to know what type of game it will be, remember that Sea of Thieves was released to the market very limited in more typical content of double A games.
 
This makes no sense whatsoever.

Controllers are one of the cheapest parts of a console to produce and are usually sold at a huge premium.

If Microsoft took out the controller from the console, they would be saving $10-$15 on their end. Sure, you could push the price of Lockhart down maybe an extra $25 for those who are already set with Xbox One controllers... but they would also in practice push it $25 UP for everybody else (assuming a controller on its own will retail for about $50).

I'm not saying this can't be a strategy, but it's definitely not a strategy that can expand your marketshare when you are already the underdog. If anything, if Lockhart costs around $300 to ship, they might as well sell it for $299 and throw in a SECOND controller to increase the perceived value of the package (not saying it's going to happen, but as a "bold strategy" it would make a lot more sense than the opposite).

He comes up with some stupid shit doesn't he? lol Let's take out the power cord and the HDMI cable too.
 

Shmunter

Member
Uh, sorry! Try to edited post, but was remained in draft.

Anyway, here is the link. From this page :

Lol, those soy boys are giving that Warren guy a good rogering. Don’t normally see such vitriol outside of someone making an unrelated trans joke. Wonder how many heads will roll for vilifying a journalist.
 

Dibils2k

Member
More tales from your ass? Have you hard proves that they are keeping it and paying?
Did you read crystal dynamic respond?
Spider man now is sony's ip. Deal with it.
How they are not adding any value? Right here we are getting Spider Man for Free. It is huge value.
Hawkeye is free too... Spiderman would have been the same, with or without exclusivity
 

AeneaGames

Member
And if you also read my previous answers, I said it'd be used in data centres and servers more than the consumer market too. Come on bro!
As we both can see if that happens then it filters through, yeah? So we're on the same page, different angle? Just that both AMD with Sony and Nvidia are attempting to do this direct to GPU thing, bypassing the CPU so everything is more efficient. I'm just hoping that the PS5 design helps both AMD and Nvidia understand through put more and advances it all. But no better proof in the pudding than spending time analysing the box over the next 5-8 years and seeing how coders and programmers make use of seeing the SSD load straight to GPU regularly.

What if AMD decides to make CPU's that use GDDR RAM as well. Skipping the need for conventional RAM.

They could market them as gaming CPU's. Heck, they could be APU's without a GPU component but with a hardware level decoder. RAM is separate and can be upgraded and compatible GPU's can be made WITHOUT any RAM which work in conjunction with these gaming CPU's....

Make it all run on Windows like normal and voila and since they are all still separately upgradable components you don't lose any flexibility while building your PC...

Still gonna need a lot of work I suppose, but still it should be possible to do...
 

AeneaGames

Member
But then how does the PS5 know when to run a game in PS5 mode or PS4/PS4 Pro mode?

The executable contains information if it has been patched/made for the PS4 Pro. So when the PS5 starts a game it can tell if it's a PS4 game or one that has been optimised for the PS4 Pro. It can then check a list of games, this list contains games that have been tested in PS5 mode and ran succesfully. If the game is listed in there it runs it in PS5 mode, if it's not it runs it in either Pro or PS4 mode
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
Lol, those soy boys are giving that Warren guy a good rogering. Don’t normally see such vitriol outside of someone making an unrelated trans joke. Wonder how many heads will roll for vilifying a journalist.

Are you suggesting that ResetEra is more concerned with courting and sucking up to 'games journalists' to maintain its profile, instead of allowing proper debate? SHOCKING.
 
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Neo Blaster

Member
Hence the axing of the 1X. The X1 will drop in price to basically $Free.99
If casuals didn't care about 4k, then they don't care about 1080p, 900p, 720p, whatever. If X1 will go as low as $99, then they will stay where they are if they already have one, and new budget customers will grab the $99 dollar machine instead of the $249 one. Remember, same games.

Marketing will have one hell of a job on 'the hot new thing' to make people forget about price and that they all run the same games.
 
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