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[Reindeer]

Again, they had no option but to recognize that. The problem is how they try to artificially raise MS games by pretending they are not seeing the obvious problems. Imagine what Sony would've done if they had the 6TF console.

Lol, but there's always another choice every year for them to go with instead of Sony title, so how do they have a bias against Sony of they always pick their games? You don't even make sense. They literally said Halo Infinite looks so bad it should be delayed and everyone here ignores that and focuses on Alex's opinion (one member of DF) regarding lighting because it fits their agenda. Alex also pointed out other technical flaws the game has, like pop-in and shadows not showing, but apparently that part didn't matter. Smh.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Whoever that is grilling John, he's a douche, and I'm not even a fan of DF.

Totally, John seems like such a chill dude, too.

Possibly one of the resident GAF Sony fans. I forget which one, but he got into mudslinging match with Linneman late last year or early this year (Linneman has a GAF profile) and he basically drove him off this board.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

My only issue is their video lengths should be about half the total running time, they're too long and could "cut the fat".

 

[anothertech]

One of the best analysis teams.

Even if it seems biased at times from one side or the other. I usually trust them more than anyone else.

No one is really doing the work they do.

 

[JLB]

Oh btw, seriously, I dont know why normal and healthy people uses Twitter, or Facebook or Reddit or any other social network more than to say hi to a distant uncle from time to time. Those sites are full of ads, toxicity and irrelevant content. Rather than scrolling meaningless shit, go download a good book and make of you a better person.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

I think you'll find that was during the period where the 360 games often looked better.

Whenever DF reports, factually, that an Xbox version of a game looks better than a Playstation version the hard-core Sony fans take it as a personal slight and boy, those guys know how to hold a grudge.

When DF reports, factually, that the Halo Infinite reveal was graphically underwhelming (and went into the reasons why in some detail) the hard-core Sony fans were still upset because the criticism wasn't severe enough. For those guys the only acceptable article would be a picture of Craig with 'lol' as the headline and nothing else.


The 'bias' is in the mind of overzealous and oversensitive fans.

If they're doing a head-to-head and the facts support what they say there's no reason to be upset. But some of us are pointing out how they're more critical of an exclusive Sony game than they are a Microsoft game. You can say that people are being silly about them not being severe enough with Halo Infinite but other Youtubers like NX Gamer, King Thrash and a bunch more had more in depth analysis of it than they did which is a problem when they're the top tier guys. Was there anything in NX Gamer's critique of Halo Infinite's visuals that was FACTUALLY wrong? And if not why did he have to point it out, why aren't the best in the business doing so?

 

[Freeman]

Lol, but there's always another choice every year for them to go with instead of Sony title, so how do they have a bias against Sony of they always pick their games? Lol, you don't even make sense. They literally said Halo Infinite looks so bad it should be delayed and everyone here ignores that and focuses on Alex's opinion (one member of DF) regarding lighting because it fits their agenda. Alex also pointed out other technical flaws the game has, like pop-in and shadows not showing, but apparently that part didn't matter. Smh.

You don' need 8x zoom to know Halo looks bad. Again, they did their best to find excuses for it but they had no choice but to admit it looked awful.

 

[Starbuck2907]

XSX has better hardware, so Sony fanboys gotta destroy their credibility before next gen launches and all 3rd games run better on Xbox. This gen, with PS4 having better graphics than base Xbox One, they’ve been basking in console warrior light for years ...can’t handle losing that.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Possibly one of the resident GAF Sony fans. I forget which one, but he got into mudslinging match with Linneman late last year or early this year (Linneman has a GAF profile) and he basically drove him off this board.

Maybe I missed something but if you mean me I talked with John in PMs and we settled things amicably, even King Thrash settled things nicely with him in the thread. In King Thrash's latest video he even praises John for being the one to be most critical of Halo Infinite. Unless some other event happened.

 

[Reindeer]

You don' need 8x zoom to know Halo looks bad. Again they did their best to find excuses for it but they had no choice but to admit it looked awful.

DF panel literally agreed that the game should be delayed because it's visually poor, how is that excusing the game? Can you name one other game they said should delayed because it looks bad? You clearly have selective bias and are just focusing on whatever you want because you already made up your mind about them.

 

[Kazza]

I hope NXGamer knows what he is letting himself in for with his (relatively) new channel. Sure, they are being nice to him now, but they will eventually come for him too. The fanboy mob is like the woke mob: you may feel that you have escaped their wrath, but in reality it just isn't your turn....yet.

If you're a youtuber, maybe it's best to just nail your colours to one of the two sides, that way you limit your audience to just one set of fanboys (the other set won't bother watching). So long as you please your core audience you won't get any crazy accusations and abuse. It's the channels that try to be neutral who get it in the neck from both sides (depending on who happens to be winning the console power war at the time)

 

[Celcius]

Digital Foundry is awesome

 

[Freeman]

DF panel literally agreed that the game should be delayed because it looks so bad, how is that excusing the game? Can you name one other game they said should delayed because it looks bad? You clearly have selective bias and are just focusing on whatever you want because you already made up your mind about them.

Can you name another big game that was as embarrassing looking as Halo?

I don't even think they are bad, what I think is that they are biased. They try to lift Xbox up when it's not deserved. It took them way too long to downplay native 4K and they held just long enough to start pointing it out for the Xbox One X to be already discontinued at that point.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

I hope NXGamer knows what he is letting himself in for with his (relatively) new channel. Sure, they are being nice to him now, but they will eventually come for him too. The fanboy mob is like the woke mob: you may feel that you have escaped their wrath, but in reality it just isn't your turn....yet.

If you're a youtuber, maybe it's best to just nail your colours to one of the two sides, that way you limit your audience to just one set of fanboys (the other set won't bother watching). So long as you please your core audience you won't get any crazy accusations and abuse. It's the channels that try to be neutral who get it in the neck from both sides (depending on who happens to be winning the console power war at the time)

It's really weird when people act like NXGamer is some new voice or something. He's been going for a good while and people here have never had problems with his analysis no matter who he prefers. In fact, I've seen him get crap literally once here... from someone calling him a Sony shill... (maybe that was Era actually?), either way he didn't play any victim complex shit, he will listen to criticism.

 

[Shmunter]

Never miss a video. Love the team apart from Alex who makes comments on the side that expose his bias and bring his analysis to be under more scrutiny. Once the tech arrives, he’ll be forced to confront his blind spots.

 

[Bryank75]

Maybe I missed something but if you mean me I talked with John in PMs and we settled things amicably, even King Thrash settled things nicely with him in the thread. In King Thrash's latest video he even praises John for being the one to be most critical of Halo Infinite. Unless some other event happened.

Yup.. I like John, I applauded him correcting Alex in the Halo breakdown.... John is the most balanced and trustworthy at DF.

I found Alex' Halo Infinite breakdown to be laughable... it really seemed like he was excusing many of the serious issues the game has and saying most of it could be fixed with lighting.

That's fine, if people want to hold Xbox to lower standards.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

M *cough* $
Is what's wrong.

 

[Reindeer]

Can you name another big game that was as embarrassing looking as Halo?

I don't even think they are bad, what I think is that they are biased. They try to lift Xbox up when it not deserved. It took them way too long to downplay native 4K, they held long enough until the Xbox One X died to point out how much of a waste native 4K is.

That's besides the point. You claim that they're defending the game, but at the same time ignore the fact that they gave the game the harshest criticism they could have when they said it should be delayed due to poor visuals and technical issues.

 

[Rentahamster]

Well researched and objective measurements that inform an analysis are probably going to trigger those people who base their self worth and identity not on empirical evidence but rather feelings. Therefore, any cognitive dissonance must be explained away by blaming the objective analysis makers, instead of self-introspective that might lead to uncomfortable truths.

 

[Barlow]

Monday: They're Xbox biased
Tuesday: They're Sony biased
Wednesday: They're Xbox biased
Thursday: They're Sony biased
Etc etc

It's just BS

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Zoom in 800% on a game from the PS show to show flaws writes off Halo Infinite looking like shit because of the time of day in the game.

Those 800% zooms are a great tools to show details that would not be obvious on video (in great part because of the compression)... when they compare games they are looking for the differences.

DF was the best of the best when the Playstation hardware was more powerful that Xbox and their reviews were favorable to Sony hardware. When the thing turned in favor of Xbox, since One X, they became biased and evil people.

They managed to constantly downplay the differences between the base consoles, sometimes 720p or 900p was just fine, they could not tell the difference compared to native 1080p--even with sub 30fps--if this was on xbox one (a la Ryse), on PS4 the smallest dip below 30fps was an issue.

As soon as we started to get a couple of native 4k games on the X they got new prescription glasses and started complaining about "blurriness".

Also, early last gen they were quick to repeat non-sense that the MS PR machine told them about the magic of the ESRAM bandwidth, assuming 3rd party titles would get better on the base console over time... obviously that did not happen. To their credit they did a video revisiting the state of the performance gap in third party titles on xbox one s and base PS4--that does not look good for base xbox owners.

This is the kind of stuff people complain about when they say they are biased (I think, but it seems we have a new generation of complainers that do not like details in their technical analysis, which is counter productive, at least DF is willing to show the details to explain what they mean).

This is what gave rise to NX Gamer (DF used to be silent videos, the analysis was done on Eurogamer).

Anyway, I pay attention to them as I feel they offer a valuable starting point when evaluating that kind of thing... and there is personally nobody I completely agree with all the time, so I tend to make my own mind (I love king trash gamer, but he is not very technical ... strangely he is often right tho).
No I'm not going through a bunch of old videos and articles to prove, you have the Google machine too.

Its a matter of percentages. This site has orders of magnitude more trolls of Sony than Microsoft, thus is resounds more heavily.

There aren't many people playing on xbox these days, deal with it.

Totally, John seems like such a chill dude, too.

Kind of, but he also takes criticism personally, I have seen him going at people in a not so elegant manner in this very forum. This is not very professional, and he definitely lost his cool over basic things (I'm not even talking about banter here).

 

[MiguelItUp]

Pretty much, it's mostly just nerd rage. Personally, I find their content enjoyable and informative.

I figured that was the case. In all I've seen of DF they've been very extensive and impressive.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Maybe I missed something but if you mean me I talked with John in PMs and we settled things amicably, even King Thrash settled things nicely with him in the thread. In King Thrash's latest video he even praises John for being the one to be most critical of Halo Infinite. Unless some other event happened.

Wasn't you. It wasn't PMs. It were public posts we all saw in a thread.

 

[Freeman]

That's besides the point. You claim that they're defending the game, but at the same time ignore the fact that they gave the game the harshest criticism they could have when they said it should be delayed due to poor visuals and technical issues.

Alex guy was clearly coming up with excuses for Halo even downplaying Sony games because they are 30fps (got shot down by John at least, so good for him).

RT ain't going to make the grass in Halo move.

The Halo 2018 trailer is one of the biggest fake trailers we've ever seen and it's mostly being ignored.

 

[JLB]

There aren't many people playing on xbox these days, deal with it.

Aha, and that is related to what I said...?

 

[Reindeer]

This is what gave rise to NX Gamer

Rise? After all this years barely anyone watches his videos. This is not a swipe at him, but let's not act like he had some sort of a rise in popularity or something.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

I miss lensoftruth

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Wasn't you. It wasn't PMs. It were public posts we all saw in a thread.

That's interesting, I don't know much about that. I do know, based on our own interaction he can take things more personally than he maybe should and part of my advice for him, via PMs was not to do that. To me it felt like we both understood each other and I shared stuff with him I barely share with anyone. If someone legitimately ran him off the board I hope he's doing okay.

 

[MHubert]

Because they analyze, and have a genuine interest, in game tech, which is a kind of discourse that makes the utterings of some people (here and elsewhere) look like the ramblings of complete lunatics.

 

[Redlight]

If they're doing a head-to-head and the facts support what they say there's no reason to be upset. But some of us are pointing out how they're more critical of an exclusive Sony game than they are a Microsoft game. You can say that people are being silly about them not being severe enough with Halo Infinite but other Youtubers like NX Gamer, King Thrash and a bunch more had more in depth analysis of it than they did which is a problem when they're the top tier guys. Was there anything in NX Gamer's critique of Halo Infinite's visuals that was FACTUALLY wrong? And if not why did he have to point it out, why aren't the best in the business doing so?

They are not 'more critical', the bias is in your head.

I haven't seen NX Gamer's video so have no comment, but that video by King Trash is just an unhinged fanboy rant. The fact that you list it as 'in-depth analysis' is damning. Is that your idea of unbiased? I mean, are you kidding?

To suggest it's better than the reporting by DF is, frankly, laughable.

For the hard-core Sony loyalist it's clear that no criticism of Sony is allowed, and no criticism of Xbox is enough.

 

[Reindeer]

Alex guy was clearly coming up with excuses for Halo even downplaying Sony games because they are 30fps (got shot down by John at least, so good for him).

RT ain't going to make the grass in Halo move.

Let's not forget that Alex is one member of DF, so taking a dig at DF as a whole because you disagree with what one member said is hardly fair. It does make sense for Alex to have a dig at 30fps as he's a PC gamer only and has been spoiled by 60+ fps for over a decade. It's actually sad that console gamers are not making more noise demanding 60 fps. And to be fair to Alex, he did point out other flaws in Halo demo, even if his criticism wasn't as harsh as some would like.

 

[Bryank75]

They are not 'more critical', the bias is in your head.

I haven't seen NX Gamer's video so have no comment, but that video by King Trash is just an unhinged fanboy rant. The fact that you list it as 'in-depth analysis' is damning. Is that your idea of unbiased? I mean, are you kidding?

To suggest it's better than the reporting by DF is, frankly, laughable.

For the hard-core Sony loyalist it's clear that no criticism of Sony is allowed, and no criticism of Xbox is enough.

If you compare the DF video featuring Alex to the video by Cherno (who was an engine developer at EA) you will see how soft Alex is going.... and Cherno also says he is holding back because he doesn't want to be too harsh...

 

[Aion002]

They are fine... They care more about Xbox and that's fine.

Their analysis are fun:

On the PS360 gen they usually ended in a conclusion like this: The 360 is the console to play this game.

On the beginning of this gen they changed to something like: Even if the PS4 runs better, Xbox fans are in for a great game too and PC is the best.

Then, after the One X was released: The best way to play this game is on the Xbox One X.

 

[Freeman]

Let's not forget that Alex is one member of DF, so taking a dig at DF as a whole because you disagree with what one member said is hardly fair. It does make sense for Alex to have a dig at 30fps as he's a PC gamer only and has been spoiled by 60+ fps for over a decade. It's actually sad that console gamers are not making more noise demanding 60 fps. And to be fair to Alex, he did point out other flaws in Halo demo, even if his criticism wasn't as harsh as some would like.

If the dude is a PC gamer only get him out of a site that is mostly console focused.

For as much as Halo was criticized I still think it got a huge pass. No wonder it turned out to be 120fps on the Series X(something we didn't know at the time), what we saw was unbelievably bad for MS's biggest IP.

 

[Kazza]

This is flagrantly wrong, we had a big DF thread on here long before that because of their bias. I can find 9 year old threads through google searches on other forums of people claiming this.

I will make a bold prediction and say that if you go ahead and conduct this research it will show the following trend:

"DF analysis shows the 360 game runs at 720p and 30 fps, while PS3 is 680p at 29 fps"
"There goes DF again nitpicking about things gamers won't notice. Linneman and Leadbetter on the MS payroll again!"

"DF analysis shows the PS4 game runs at 1080p and 30 fps, while Xbox One is 900p at 29 fps"
"Finally. DF isn't getting paid off. Good to see Linneman and Leadbetter being unbiased!"

"DF would like to show you a hands on Xbox Series X teardown. We got a prototype. It's also 12TF"
"Even though Sony hasn't shown the system to anyone lately, goes to show DF is biased again doing a Series X teardown when PS5 isn't ready to show yet!"

Possibly one of the resident GAF Sony fans. I forget which one, but he got into mudslinging match with Linneman late last year or early this year (Linneman has a GAF profile) and he basically drove him off this board.

That was an embarrassing day for the forum. That dude was just relentless.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Its dumb console war bullshit. Lol some assholes scared him off this forum way to go dickheads. You really know you fucked up when he can post on Era and gets chased off here

DF are good guys. It’s funny cos u never hear “they lied about FPS/resolution/etc” it’s always some lame excuse like “they are annoying” put up by some butthurt console warrior

DF rule and provide a great service to ALL gamers

 

[CatLady]

Maybe I missed something but if you mean me I talked with John in PMs and we settled things amicably, even King Thrash settled things nicely with him in the thread. In King Thrash's latest video he even praises John for being the one to be most critical of Halo Infinite. Unless some other event happened.

It wasn't you, it was one of the Sony extremists in the Next Gen thread. He lost it because DF had the nerve to report on the (eventually proven to be TRUE) GItHub leaks instead doing reports that the PS5 was 13.8 TFs like all their fake insiders kept telling them.

 

[Reindeer]

If the dude is a PC gamer only get him out of a site that is mostly console focused.

That's why he mainly covers PC stuff. They probably gave him Halo demo because it was recorded on PC, or maybe others didn't have time to do it.

 

[Wunray]

Give it some time, in a couple months when they are praising some sony ps5 exclusive the opinion will change, me personally I think they are fine, usually watch them for their preformance analysis, especially when it comes to computers.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

They are not 'more critical', the bias is in your head.

I haven't seen NX Gamer's video so have no comment, but that video by King Trash is just an unhinged fanboy rant. The fact that you list it as 'in-depth analysis' is damning. Is that your idea of unbiased? I mean, are you kidding?

To suggest it's better than the reporting by DF is, frankly, laughable.

For the hard-core Sony loyalist it's clear that no criticism of Sony is allowed, and no criticism of Xbox is enough.

Okay... first of all... watch the NX Gamer video.

Second of all... King Thrash had more to point out than they did, what did he point out that was actually wrong to point out? He doesn't word things as eloquently as others do, he has a personality and is funny, it's part of why people like him, he's a legitimate character. But I don't see how anything he said is "wrong".

I didn't say better, by the way, I said more in depth, more critical. I feel like those things are hard to dispute because both King Thrash and NX DO go into more details about it than DF do. The funny thing about NX's vid is he's doing the whole XBOX show so he actually doesn't say EVERYTHING WRONG WITH IT he sees because he said he might do a full video later for that. Like seriously, he didn't even devote all the time he had to it and he still had more to say than they did.

Also, nothing I said indicates anything about criticism for Sony not being allowed or how no criticism of XBOX is enough, the question I asked was pretty simple... why are smaller youtubers pointing out more problems than the TOP TIER PEOPLE? DF gets these critiques BECAUSE they're considered the best.

 

[Kazza]

BTW it should be noted not all of us mean DF as a collective entity, there are different personalities among them and they aren't all equally biased or some shit.

This is how the DF crew line up in the XboxSX/PS5 console wars:

John: Doesn't give a shit, prefers retro games
Alex: Doesn't give a shit, prefers PC gaming
Tom: Doesn't give a shit, prefers the Switch
Richard: Too old for this shit

 

[Explosive Zombie]

It wasn't you, it was one of the Sony extremists in the Next Gen thread. He lost it because DF had the nerve to report on the (eventually proven to be TRUE) GItHub leaks instead doing reports that the PS5 was 13.8 TFs like all their fake insiders kept telling them.

Isn't the GitHub leak where all the FUD about PS5 being a 9 TFlop system come from? Because that's not been proven true and is still a bannable offense until someone can prove it.

 

[Knitted Knight]

Reading from scripts provided by devs to put out puff pieces - confessed on GAF - John.
Selective criticism king - Alex.
FUD opinion spreader -Leadbetter.

All of them more or less practice all 3 of those things to degrees. Goes one way....

People who read and consume their stuff at face value will find value in their videos/articles. Just don't expect others that do not take their stuff at face value, find the flaws in the argumentation, and the clear inconsistencies to somehow agree with you on your blind loyalty to the superficial "objectiveness" you personally believe they have. It's what it's.

The more folks that enter this niche like NXGamer the better. KingThrash exposing them brought healthy debate to the table. One thing is words typed on a forum - dismissed by wherever you stand, another is visual aids open for everyone to see - in essence, irrefutable.

 

[Reindeer]

On the PS360 gen they usually ended in a conclusion like this: The 360 is the console to play this game.

On the beginning of this gen they changed to something like: Even if the PS4 runs better, Xbox fans are in for a great game too and PC is the best.

360 was the best console to play 90+% of the games (multiplats ran better on it), so I'm not sure why you have a problem with them stating facts.

And you saying they downplayed PS4 advantage is false, that was the era when the 400% zoom was in its peak and they would even point out how many more blades of grass PS4 version had.

 

[Bryank75]

Do any of the staff at DF have any actual technical qualifications?

 

[JonnyMP3]

Having standard metrics for measurements across the board would probably be helpful for both consoles and PC. Just the facts and not 'personal opinions' or 'theories' of why things appear like they appear.
If you're going to do 400x zooms... Do it for EVERYTHING. Standardise the testing criteria for both consoles and PC like they're supposed to and stop with the speculation.

 

[captainraincoat]

A sony bias in alot of places and the fact that MS have made alot more things available such as a physical console for DF to play with when sony have been pretty much releasing renders of controllers
once sony actually start releasing stuff of substance it will die down

 

[Redlight]

If you compare the DF video featuring Alex to the video by Cherno (who was an engine developer at EA) you will see how soft Alex is going.... and Cherno also says he is holding back because he doesn't want to be too harsh...

Alex criticises Halo infinite and talks about why it looked so flat in terms of lighting. He also mentions other technical flaws like pop-up etc. It's hardly the stirring defence of the game that people like to pretend it is. If he's an Xbox shill then he's doing a very poor job.

For some here reasoned criticism isn't enough, If it isn't a red-faced, spittle-flying rant then it's actually, magically, praise.

It's perverse.

 

[Reindeer]

It wasn't you, it was one of the Sony extremists in the Next Gen thread. He lost it because DF had the nerve to report on the (eventually proven to be TRUE) GItHub leaks instead doing reports that the PS5 was 13.8 TFs like all their fake insiders kept telling them.

Ah, the good old days, when people were calling DF disgusting names and saying they were Microsoft shills because they backed the GitHub leak. Well, we all know how that turned out. I've seen enough fanboy stupidity to know who the real shills are.

 

[Kazza]

On MS payroll

I'll be generous and assume that kretos is just being funny here, but the mods really need to have a plan in place for when the next gen comparison videos start dropping later this year. If every DF thread devolves into "they are only saying that because they are paid shills of MS", then those threads are simply going to become unreadable. If you are going to make that kind of accusation, then surely you need evidence to back it up, otherwise the ban hammer needs to fall. What say you, Mod of War ?