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[Rudius]

People can't understand the risks because they didnt play games under 60 fps on VR yet, when people get sick for a one or several full days, they will know the risk. Unlocked framerate is not good, but on VR is terrible and not healthy

Besides the most games on Dreams is not running to 60fps even on Pro, so there is no nice and quality content in it.

Media Molecule is not making anything for a good VR experience on Dreams with that decision. They should limit the creations for this mode.

I think one developer said recently that the resolution will drop dinamicaly in order to sustain 60 fps and that the Pro will look better. Blurry is better than choppy for VR, and by making the resolution scale with performance we will have crisp visuals on PS5.

 

[Rudius]

There was a bug in a Farpoint co-op level where the enemies keep spawning at the end of a level and it doesn't end properly. People used it to rack up high scores.

But the game was pushing way more enemies than it ever meant to, which tanked the framerate like crazy. It was one of the only times (if not the only one ever) where I saw a PSVR game go under 60fps and it got to what looked like 30s or worse. While it's not something I'd want, it wasn't like I died from it IRL or something

You should have given birth right then and there.

 

[RJMacready73]

man i wish i had the time & the talent to create something in this, Eye of the Beholder / Ultima Underworld VR here i come...

 

[Shmunter]

I want to walk around all the scenes created by this legend, including the new one:



frankly, don't think even with dynamic resolution it will be possible on PS4 VR, but hoping the added extra power of PS5 can do it

What the deuce?

If you told me that’s GoPro footage I’d believe it. Current gen >=>next gen???? Sweaty red button jpg

 

[Romulus]

Watching the stream now, some of the people who create in dreams were freaking out how easy a lot of this is and how much further control you have in VR of things. Improves the ecosystem.

 

[namekuseijin]

the sneak peak is awesome, the fact it's wholly VR doubly so

but beware that there's a Allow low framerate in VR checkbox in the options. I'm really guessing most high grade stuff won't really be possible. Yesterday I took a look around in The White City, a mind-blowing reconstruction of Gondor from LOTR. My Pro went into please-kill-me screaming mode. This can't possibly run in VR without either a NMS-like blurry low resolution or PS4 just melting - and of course, that checkbox checked out

still very anxious

 

[namekuseijin]

wake up everyone

 

[Romulus]

Impressions are through the roof that I've seen. That it's far better than people expected.

 

[Psykodad]

Impressions are through the roof that I've seen. That it's far better than people expected.

VR is amazing.

Even cinema mode (when framerate becomes subpar) is awesome. Better than everything you'd expect from going to the cinema to watch a 3D movie.

Also really cool to go through all your creations and see how VR affects it.
Was really surprised to see that our Project Ikelos demo is fully playable in VR and it working surprisingly well, even though it isn't designed for VR.
Games will greatly benefit from it, be it a FPS, 3rd person or 2D sidescroller. Artists will also be able to create mindblowing experiences, no doubt.
Can only imagine how nice it must be to sculpt in VR.

Truly a game-changer. And that's no hype talking.

 

[namekuseijin]

quick notes: resolution on Pro is awesome and this is the best implementation for Move controllers I've ever seen - I can fully walk and even turn with degrees of analog precision.

There's some fixed foveated rendering to render edges of images in lower resolution to spare processing - looks slightly blurry, but very sharp on center. I'm also impressed by the voxel resolution in the geometry even in graphically demanding scenes like the photorealistic breakfast scene...

it's magic by wizards. Really polished. Same degree of amazing port polish as Wipeout, probably more as they also devised awesome controls and even a wonder new way of teleporting: control your character from third person as it walks to another spot - full analog-like control with Moves. Magic.

still to go through all the VR tutorials before I'm allowed to play the general user experiences. But I guess the most demanding of them are not making the jump:

 

[Unknown?]

Looking forward to trying this out!

 

[Romulus]

VR is amazing.

Even cinema mode (when framerate becomes subpar) is awesome. Better than everything you'd expect from going to the cinema to watch a 3D movie.

Also really cool to go through all your creations and see how VR affects it.
Was really surprised to see that our Project Ikelos demo is fully playable in VR and it working surprisingly well, even though it isn't designed for VR.
Games will greatly benefit from it, be it a FPS, 3rd person or 2D sidescroller. Artists will also be able to create mindblowing experiences, no doubt.
Can only imagine how nice it must be to sculpt in VR.

Truly a game-changer. And that's no hype talking.

VR is the only "gimmick" I've used that actually worked better than advertised. Much better actually.

 

[FunkMiller]

Am going to follow this thread quite closely, as am really interested in how VR works on this. If there’s enough great quality games being produced in VR, I’ll definitely pick up a copy.

 

[Wildstar75]

Really excited for this.. Unfortunately Playstation 4 VR tracking didn't meet my threshold for acceptable comfort. But looking forward to this on PS5 or PC at some point hopefully.

 

[Rudius]

VR is the only "gimmick" I've used that actually worked better than advertised. Much better actually.

It's not a gimmick, it's a new platform of electronic entertainment and we are just at the beginning.

 

[Romulus]

It's not a gimmick, it's a new platform of electronic entertainment and we are just at the beginning.

Yup, that's why I put in quotations.

 

[namekuseijin]

they've decided to mark all user creations so far as non-VR by default so only a handful are available in VR. many of my favorites are out of luck until the creator updates them and decides to allow VR players in

some experiences are marked bad framerate, but I didn't notice that. Perhaps on slim?

anyway, most Dreams are third person and by playing them in VR just goes on to show that any traditional 3D game looks and plays just fine in VR. fuck u AAA studios for your lack of support so far, just putting the damn camera in the head in so many games would do so much for VR popularity. It also proves limited cameras in Astro Bot or Moss should be a comfort mode for beginners, not design your whole game around such limitations...

 

[Psykodad]

VR is the only "gimmick" I've used that actually worked better than advertised. Much better actually.

Yeah, probably because it isn't a gimmick, but a platform.

 

[Romulus]

Yeah, probably because it isn't a gimmick, but a platform.

Yeah the masses had me convinced otherwise though.

 

[Psykodad]

Yeah the masses had me convinced otherwise though.

The masses don't know any better though. VR can't be shown by videos or word of mouth and VR devices are still relatively expensive.
And support still needs to grow.

So it does make sense that it’s still perceived as a gimmick.

 

[Kokoloko85]

.

 

[FunkMiller]

The masses don't know any better though. VR can't be shown by videos or word of mouth and VR devices are still relatively expensive.
And support still needs to grow.

So it does make sense that it’s still perceived as a gimmick.

The day I played Resident Evil 7 in VR for the first time I knew it wasn’t a gimmick.

Once they can get rid of the cables and the headsets are lighter, VR will fucking EXPLODE.

 

[Rudius]

most Dreams are third person and by playing them in VR just goes on to show that any traditional 3D game looks and plays just fine in VR. fuck u AAA studios for your lack of support so far, just putting the damn camera in the head in so many games would do so much for VR popularity.

So you finally admitted that, huh?

Totally agree with that. Even games like The Last of Us part 2 and Ghost of Tsushima would benefit from being played in VR; you would get the sense of scale when looking at skyscrapers or fully immerse your senses in the beauty of Japan in a bygone Era.

 

[Rudius]

What Dreams need the most right now is to give the player the option to force VR in any game or experience. Just put a disclaimer saying that it may not work well and lets us vomit in peace.

 

[wondermega]

So you finally admitted that, huh?

Totally agree with that. Even games like The Last of Us part 2 and Ghost of Tsushima would benefit from being played in VR; you would get the sense of scale when looking at skyscrapers or fully immerse your senses in the beauty of Japan in bygone Era.

I agree, would be great if developers were able to "just do this" but I completely understand why they don't. The two-camera rendering means the gameplay experience for so many games would be atrocious, tons of things would break all over the place. They really need to design a game to work with VR from the outset. I'd wager that such as it is, the Dreams environment/engine was originally built with VR support in mind and that is why it can just work now (obviously, with caveats still). But games like Last of Us which are high-end pushing all kinds of crazy rendering tech would just break. If Sony (or someone) designed a console with VR in mind from the outset and mandated some sort of general support, then this would be an entirely different story; instead it's just an add-on.

 

[Psykodad]

What Dreams need the most right now is to give the player the option to force VR in any game or experience. Just put a disclaimer saying that it may not work well and lets us vomit in peace.

But it does.
There's an option you can use to make the game not go into cinema mode if framerates are low.

Unless creations are using the black bars for cinematics. Then it'll automatically go into cinematic mode.

Unless I missed something, only checked briefly.

 

[Rudius]

But it does.
There's an option you can use to make the game not go into cinema mode if framerates are low.

Unless creations are using the black bars for cinematics. Then it'll automatically go into cinematic mode.

Unless I missed something, only checked briefly.

Most games are not available in VR. Creators must enable the option individually.

 

[Rudius]

I agree, would be great if developers were able to "just do this" but I completely understand why they don't. The two-camera rendering means the gameplay experience for so many games would be atrocious, tons of things would break all over the place. They really need to design a game to work with VR from the outset. I'd wager that such as it is, the Dreams environment/engine was originally built with VR support in mind and that is why it can just work now (obviously, with caveats still). But games like Last of Us which are high-end pushing all kinds of crazy rendering tech would just break. If Sony (or someone) designed a console with VR in mind from the outset and mandated some sort of general support, then this would be an entirely different story; instead it's just an add-on.

It would not be easy from a graphics perspective, since VR is more demanding, but I argue that from a gameplay perspective 3rd person with free camera works fine in VR. May not be the best way to use the technology, but it's still the best way to play games like that, as Dreams demonstrates.

 

[Psykodad]

Most games are not available in VR. Creators must enable the option individually.

Ah ok, yeah, I assumed as much.
Forcing VR in a creation when the creator doesn't want it, goes against the artistic freedom of the creator though.
Ultimately, it's up to creators to allow VR or not. MM shouldn't have a say in that.

 

[Rudius]

Forcing VR in a creation when the creator doesn't want it, goes against the artistic freedom of the creator though.

 

[Psykodad]

Fair enough, nothing wrong with wanting it.
Just saying it won't happen.

 

[namekuseijin]

So you finally admitted that, huh?

Totally agree with that. Even games like The Last of Us part 2 and Ghost of Tsushima would benefit from being played in VR; you would get the sense of scale when looking at skyscrapers or fully immerse your senses in the beauty of Japan in bygone Era.

yes, it works

I'd still prefer to hold a katana in my own hands but sure enough my FP acrobatics would be no match for the beautiful animations

btw, I'm on vacations and been all night long immersed in Dreams - and not the organic ones.

Tales of the Sky is a quite a big full game, very impressive, feels to be like being inside an old SNES RPG

tiny quest is a tiny 8-bit platformer with all mini levels in front of you, following the antics of an ant, to scale. It's as mind-blowing as devilishly designed. It's really like an old 2D game brought to life in VR but still only restricted to side motion.

The Cheese is the best racing game in Dreams and puts to humiliating shame all commercial psvr kart racers (despite having no apparent finish line)

Hard Reset is very atmospheric underground exploration aboard some submarine or something. Only ds4 seemed to work, controls great.

Genlax City map preview is just awesome. I've seen kids creating big cities in VR in Rec Room before, but of course it can't ever be something like this. Btw, there are just few blocks of awesome detail, the rest of the city is basically just background, but I still went on to walk all over it...

Btw, I also experienced N64 kokiri forest from OoT fully in VR, with child Link sized as a baby at best. Still mind-blowing nostalgia trip to one of the seminal 3D games... thanks, Nin... I mean, Mm and dreamers

there's so much good stuff in Dreams that I still didn't find time to even test out the creation tools in VR...

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

VR is the only "gimmick" I've used that actually worked better than advertised. Much better actually.

It's because VR couldn't be advertised on a pancake screen. One of those cases where advertising failed.

 

[Rudius]

yes, it works

I'd still prefer to hold a katana in my own hands but sure enough my FP acrobatics would be no match for the beautiful animations

btw, I'm on vacations and been all night long immersed in Dreams - and not the organic ones.

Tales of the Sky is a quite a big full game, very impressive, feels to be like being inside an old SNES RPG

tiny quest is a tiny 8-bit platformer with all mini levels in front of you, following the antics of an ant, to scale. It's as mind-blowing as devilishly designed. It's really like an old 2D game brought to life in VR but still only restricted to side motion.

The Cheese is the best racing game in Dreams and puts to humiliating shame all commercial psvr kart racers (despite having no apparent finish line)

Hard Reset is very atmospheric underground exploration aboard some submarine or something. Only ds4 seemed to work, controls great.

Genlax City map preview is just awesome. I've seen kids creating big cities in VR in Rec Room before, but of course it can't ever be something like this. Btw, there are just few blocks of awesome detail, the rest of the city is basically just background, but I still went on to walk all over it...

Btw, I also experienced N64 kokiri forest from OoT fully in VR, with child Link sized as a baby at best. Still mind-blowing nostalgia trip to one of the seminal 3D games... thanks, Nin... I mean, Mm and dreamers

there's so much good stuff in Dreams that I still didn't find time to even test out the creation tools in VR...

Yeah, that baby Link was surprising when I played, the same happens with Lara Croft who looks like I doll running around. Others, like a griffin game (Spyro) have the size you would expect. I wander how difficult it is to get a correct the scale in this creations Perhaps just trial and error.

I got to replay that Tiny game on VR, only did it on flat.

 

[namekuseijin]

Ah ok, yeah, I assumed as much.
Forcing VR in a creation when the creator doesn't want it, goes against the artistic freedom of the creator though.
Ultimately, it's up to creators to allow VR or not. MM shouldn't have a say in that.

what if I choose to run Dreams in black & white, or 4K or in 60fps with tv smooth motion against the author's artistic intention of cinematic 24fps?

VR at a bare minimum is just another display.

 

[ZywyPL]

They should release it on PC for real, people with M+K would be able to do unimaginable things with the game and share it for everyone else.

 

[Psykodad]

what if I choose to run Dreams in black & white, or 4K or in 60fps with tv smooth motion against the author's artistic intention of cinematic 24fps?

VR at a bare minimum is just another display.

Don't take it up with me, mail MediaMolecule.

If a creator doesn't want to create a VR game and disables it, it isn't up to MediaMolecule. You'd have to contact the creator.
Dreams is just a tool for the creator to make anything to his/her vision, nothing more.

 

[namekuseijin]

They should release it on PC for real, people woth M+K would be able to do unimaginable things with the game and share it for everyone else.

I think it'll come to pc and pc vr eventually, but mouse and keyboard won't do it any good - it's wholly based on intuitive sculpting and painting, not precision point-n-click. A tablet perhaps

 

[SF Kosmo]

This would have really been a killer app for VR if it came out at the right time.

As it stands it's probably too late to really revive much interest, but I hope Sony comes back to Dreams and VR next gen.

 

[mckmas8808]

This would have really been a killer app for VR if it came out at the right time.

As it stands it's probably too late to really revive much interest, but I hope Sony comes back to Dreams and VR next gen.

It's be PERFECT when the PS5 releases.

 

[Rudius]

Check this out:

Possible leaked image of the new Oculus Quest

UPDATE: see post #40 for new images and pictures. Supposedly this is the version that they will make 2 million of this year. https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Technology/Facebook-and-Sony-ramp-up-output-of-gaming-devices The person that posted the tweet said it's not a Quest Pro and...

www.neogaf.com

 

[namekuseijin]

some creators are reworking their old scenes to VR:



some are too complex that had framerate issues. Most creators of such experiences won't allow for remixing, but some forgot to disallow that and I took a peek at some of them in remix mode and many still marked non-VR do work fine out of the box, but some go even below acceptable framerate (even when checking low framerate option), so Dreams just stop them

mind, "reworking" here means mostly turning off wild camera changes and perhaps using the detail tool to give less detail (more flakiness) to objects and scenery here and there. It's just a brush, a few strokes over problematic areas will improve performance. And best of all: you lose nothing - all the detail is still there in the models if instead you use the tool to sharpen them up.

Tbh, I thought Dreams would do this sharpening up and down automatically for VR, but looks like not, yet. But I do think one of the parameters for flakiness control do this automatically, it's just not used often

anyway, mind-blowing by Dreams in VR. been playing so much that completely forgot about trying to actually create something and the moment you're sculpting with brush strokes in the 3D in front of you... I think a tear rolled away...

 

[namekuseijin]

Don't take it up with me, mail MediaMolecule.

If a creator doesn't want to create a VR game and disables it

creators are not "disabling" their creations. Mm marked by default all previous creations as non-VR, regardless of author's intent or wether the creation would run fine enough in VR or not.

anyway, most are slowly adding a VR tag to them... even 3rd person games, the bread and butter of Dreams, are working perfectly fine in VR, with you following the character as some Lakitu cameraman. Yesterday though had a thrill playing as Crash Bandicoot in FP and worked surprising well, even for jumping platforms, even though levels looked nothing like classic CB levels...

dreams come true in VR

 

[namekuseijin]

Btw, I also watched some short movies in VR and there are two different approaches here: just immersing the viewer in the scene (best) and the 3D movies approach (not ideal but still cool)

3D movies in Dreams is quite different from cinema 3D movies: 3D objects come really right before your nose and you actually lurch forward inside the frame to see more of it perhaps the frame and scene scale should be bigger like in cinema, not like a TV right in front of you. Still very cool to be able to really enter movies that way

 

[Psykodad]

creators are not "disabling" their creations. Mm marked by default all previous creations as non-VR, regardless of author's intent or wether the creation would run fine enough in VR or not.

anyway, most are slowly adding a VR tag to them... even 3rd person games, the bread and butter of Dreams, are working perfectly fine in VR, with you following the character as some Lakitu cameraman. Yesterday though had a thrill playing as Crash Bandicoot in FP and worked surprising well, even for jumping platforms, even though levels looked nothing like classic CB levels...

dreams come true in VR

"disable" was poor wording on my part.

But yeah, VR works perfect. We had a playable demo out for our project and I was amazed it was fully playable in VR.

A trailer we put out already needed a bit of rework, with added black bars and camera adjustments to make sure the scenes are displayed properly.

It's a bit distracting though when framerate drop and you go into cinema mode, or when in cinema mode the screen size increases/decreases as framerates fluctuate. But thats understandable.

Dreams shows why you'd want a PSVR, imo.

 

[Keihart]

This update sounds super cool, i don't have PSVR tho, only the rift so i'll try it next gen maybe with/if PSVR2.
Also, about having every game be VR compatible, nah. Tacked on VR it's kinda shit...i mean it's immersive alright, since VR it's somehow like headphones for your eyes, but it's such a hassle that it's hardly worth it for a game not designed for it.

 

[namekuseijin]

This update sounds super cool, i don't have PSVR tho, only the rift so i'll try it next gen maybe with/if PSVR2.
Also, about having every game be VR compatible, nah. Tacked on VR it's kinda shit...i mean it's immersive alright, since VR it's somehow like headphones for your eyes, but it's such a hassle that it's hardly worth it for a game not designed for it.

no hassle at all for traditional 3rd person platforms I've played. If anything, they show that limiting your camera in native VR games like Moss (fixed) or Astro Bot (linear path) is preposterous.

but FP with full hand interaction with your surroundings is where VR really shines though - however, given in 99% of all FP games interaction means aiming and shooting means 99% of those are ready native material for VR. I don't need to check the beautiful liquid inside a bottle in my hand, just need to shoot it...

 

[Keihart]

no hassle at all for traditional 3rd person platforms I've played. If anything, they show that limiting your camera in native VR games like Moss (fixed) or Astro Bot (linear path) is preposterous.

but FP with full hand interaction with your surroundings is where VR really shines though - however, given in 99% of all FP games interaction means aiming and shooting means 99% of those are ready native material for VR. I don't need to check the beautiful liquid inside a bottle in my hand, just need to shoot it...

But shooting as in normal FPS in VR it's nothing to write home about either but then you play Robo Recall or Onward it feels like something completely different. Like, the game can't be balanced in the same way and you appreciate new things like being able to reload your gun fast or counting bullets or lining out your scope correctly.

When i said hassle i meant that, putting up the headset it's kinda not worth it given how little you are gaining compared to playing on the TV if there is no real design behind the VR component.

 

[Romulus]

What I noticed most after trying about 12 different Dreams was just how optimized most seemed. They looked pretty crisp and well done compared to what I imagined.

Lots of potential here.

 

[namekuseijin]

But shooting as in normal FPS in VR it's nothing to write home about either but then you play Robo Recall or Onward it feels like something completely different. Like, the game can't be balanced in the same way and you appreciate new things like being able to reload your gun fast or counting bullets or lining out your scope correctly.

When i said hassle i meant that, putting up the headset it's kinda not worth it given how little you are gaining compared to playing on the TV if there is no real design behind the VR component.

oh yes, just putting the headset on and being there in the virtual world is totally worth it even in 3rd person games

let alone in games where you can aim with your full arm in any direction and indeed even line your sight down aim if you want - I can do that in a port like Borderlands, I just don't often because it's too frantic for careful shooting like that, aside from sniper guns (but then you're really just using their stupid zoom screen, that was a cheap take)

I don't buy the stupid argument that native VR games are much better. Most 3D polygonal games are ready material for VR - as Dreams eloquently shows - even though perhaps lacking the finer amount of direct hand control native VR gives you. And even so, I'd argue ports like LA Noire add that extra immersion in fine interactive with not much trouble.

summing up: I won't stop playing ports like Skyrim just because VR indies like Job Simulator offer much better interactions. I want great games in VR, not shitty ones. that's all