Kazekage1981
Member
560GB/sec -448GB/sec = 112GB/sec MORE RAM BANDWIDTH on Xbox Series X of the 10GB GDDR6. (I fucked up saying it has 100GB/sec more and 92 GB/sec more in my previous posts)
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PS5's SSD is "far ahead" of those found in high-end PCs, according to Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney
- Thread starter DeepEnigma
- Start date
- News Hardware Platform
560GB/sec -448GB/sec = 112GB/sec MORE RAM BANDWIDTH on Xbox Series X of the 10GB GDDR6. (I fucked up saying it has 100GB/sec more and 92 GB/sec more in my previous posts)
Bryank75
Banned
Yeah.... but you also have 16gb vs 10 gb. Multiply it out and get the difference.
Kagey K
Banned
Nope in fact I was dealing with things that actually affect my life, I’m not here on a message board trying to prove something about my favorite piece of plastic.
Sorry I didn’t answer you as quickly as you would have liked.
In the end you still missed it, but I give you an E for effort.
You did better then
DeepEnigma
who just bailed out Instead of either Admitting he was mistaken or totally wrong.
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Bryank75
Banned
Anyway if the figures I was given are correct, the figures I returned are correct.Nope in fact I was dealing with things that actually affect my life, I’m not here on a message board trying to prove something about my favorite piece of plastic.
Sorry I didn’t answer you as quickly as you would have liked.
In the end you still missed it, but I give you an E for effort.
You did better then
I assume you have nothing to add or correct, since you'd have done that already....
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FranXico
Member
Using specific values (and absolute deltas, not proportions) when comparing the GPUs and (most of the) RAM, but vague qualifiers when comparing the SSDs.
What a surprising and novel argument.
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Kagey K
Banned
Those go both ways,
Unless you are suggesting the novel numbers have only been presented one way.
Kazekage1981
Member
There are nuances and different approaches to XsX SSD drive which other neogaf members have gone over to death in full technicalities, so my 'impression' is that its fast like the PS5 SSD but not as fast.
I dont want get to into the trap and vicious cycle of 2.5GB/sec vs 5 GB/sec, but I/O and scrubbers, decompressed vs compressed and multiplier and other techno babble which I dont fully understand and has already been discussed to death.
2 TFLOPS more is specific and absolute
16 More Compute Units is specific and absolute
112GB/sec of more RAM bandwidth on 10GB GDDR6 is specific and absolute.
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Bryank75
Banned
The Xbox one is bog standard, the velocity architecture is just a marketing term put on tech that was already existing... only PlayStation are innovating in this area.
It was a bitter pill to swallow that PS5 would have lower Tflops but the time came for you lot to take your pill..... so take it like a man. (I dont mean you personally)
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Bryank75
Banned
Funny, I thought you'd avoid talking about numbers after earlier...
Kazekage1981
Member
I think you need some Xanax dude. When the PS5 comes out, I am sure you will enjoy your purchase and so will millions of other Sony fans. Chill baby. ::hugs::
Bryank75
Banned
No offense meant to you at all, I don't mean to sound like an asshole... it just comes out like that sometimes! You're a good dude!
Kazekage1981
Member
The whole point of the Unreal 5.0 demo was to make me forget about flippitty flopps, Ram sandwich, and other techno babble and just enjoy the next gen experience. I want most games from both next gen consoles to make me forget about all that garbage and just enjoy next gen gaming with great graphics, storyline, sound, gameplay, etc (which sony 1st party studios will do a great job of).
With that being said, no one is denying Sweenys praise of the PS5 SSD's, but given the fact that that demo was 1440p/30fps on an unfinished unreal 5.0 engine not accounting for:
-Ray Tracing
-Direct X 12 Ultimate API package
-Vulcan Ray tracing API
-Future GPU, SSD's, CPUs
-Scalable multiplatform
-Future OS (Windows, iOS, Android, etc) updates and optimizations.
-Release date of 2021
-4k and 8k Resolution at 30-60hz and higher
it is silly to think that this is the best we are going to get of Unreal Engine 5.0, and any future game and tech demo on any comparable platform would not be possible.
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Bryank75
Banned
Well all we can do is wait and see... all will be revealed in time.
pyrocro
Member
Bryank75
Banned
You had this quoted....
Anyway, wouldn't expect him back anytime soon! Ha
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geordiemp
Member
And supposedly runs on a 2070 as well, and just get a fast SSD is the claim...its easy....Nothing to see...
but wait, Tim sweeny says Ps5 customisation is 7x more efficient. Maybe Optane coudl come close ?
Remember the Cerny slide on SSD efficiency......all will become clear.
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Tumle
Member
He says, while pulling out his smelly PC "master race" dick..
jonnyp
Member
No, it was confirmed that the breakthrough in SSD tech allowed the assets to stream that fast, they would have to tone it all down for XBox series X.....
You’re going to want a speedy NVMe SSD if you want to keep up with the PS5
Unreal Engine 5 demo suggests PC gamers may feel the need for NVMe speedwww.techradar.com
'Although this doesn’t mean that a PC which still runs with a hard drive will be left out in the cold, though – it just won’t be able to render UE5 titles with these spectacular details, and visual quality will simply be dropped down appropriately to marry with the performance level of the storage medium. ' same with series x....
We don't know if XSX will run that demo at the same level of detail yet.
If Epic is maxing out the SSD throughput on the PS5 in that demo, then the answer is most likely no - it won't be able to. Next question is, if the level of detail that is streaming in is lower on XSX, then how much lower is it and will anyone be able to notice without zooming in.
It's safe to assume that it at least will be able to run it at a higher resolution because of more CUs at its disposal. It will be able to push more pixels and calculate more light bounces or same amount of bounces faster per clock than the PS5. But it won't run it at 4K/60 like some people here think - that's just ridiculous as XSXs GPU is not 100%+ stronger than the PS5 GPU.
Xbox gamers should lower their expectations a bit, especially regarding RT. Minecraft runs at 1080p/30 on XSX. If Minecraft had a more dynamic world with dense and animated trees, foliage, tons of animated NPCs, vehicles etc, then I think the performance would tank at 1080p with its pathtracing RT turned on. Also as shown in Minecraft RTX videos, it takes time for light bounces to update, there is a clear lag when a brick is destroyed to let light in to a dark room, that is pretty jarring.
Either way, each console has its strengths and weaknesses and we will have to wait until games start releasing for them before we will get a good grasp of what they are. My feeling is differences will be minor in the end.
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pawel86ck
Banned
When it takes 30 seconds to load a game even on fast SSD it's clearly a sign of bottleneck, because with lets say 3.5 GB/s SSD you should be able to fill system ram in just a few seconds.
Tim Sweeney from Epic has more knowledge than everyone here, and even he wrote the reason why PC SSDs are slower is because of bottlenecks. They only reason why you think PC SSDs have no bottlenecks is because you dont want to accept the truth and you are willing willing to lie to yourelf, just to not admit PC technology can be sometimes worse compared to cheap consoles. Other PC "fans" are doing the same thing, so you can hear them saying the dumbest things possible like there's no 16x MSAA on consoles (the problem is MSAA is no longer supported in the majority of games even on PC).
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Bryank75
Banned
Yup, that's all I said here earlier....but you can't say anything good about PS5 without getting jumped anymore it seems.
FranXico
Member
I too grow tired of the vicious cycle of 10TF versus 12TF, but! 2TF difference!! but not really 10! and is it even RDNA2??
Let's all just give it a rest.
FranXico
Member
Take a look at the latest couple of RedTechGaming videos. The poor guy is basically forced to add "I'm not saying the PS5 has an advantage" disclaimers every other sentence, and wave his Xbox Pride flag, or he will both lose subscribers and get harrassed on Twitter.
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Bryank75
Banned
Yup and above
Kagey K
started trying to attack me, thinking I had made some mistake with the Ram numbers.....He said something like 'Oooof, do yourself a favor and don't think' or something equally inane
Then disappeared when he realized he was wrong......
Hard man! haha
Redtech is great, I only came across him recently but he does good stuff....
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And supposedly runs on a 2070 as well, and just get a fast SSD is the claim...its easy....Nothing to see...
but wait, Tim sweeny says Ps5 customisation is 7x more efficient. Maybe Optane coudl come close ?
Remember the Cerny slide on SSD efficiency......all will become clear.
I have the upmost respect for Sweeney but the guy doesn't know his shit anymore. He first claims PS5 SSD is far ahead but now talk about software issues.
J_Gamer.exe
Member
And supposedly runs on a 2070 as well, and just get a fast SSD is the claim...its easy....Nothing to see...
but wait, Tim sweeny says Ps5 customisation is 7x more efficient. Maybe Optane coudl come close ?
Remember the Cerny slide on SSD efficiency......all will become clear.
I'm in complete agreement that the ps5 io transferring that ssd speed into the same sort of speed that the other end.
However just to say he says several which just generally means more than 3, so at least 4 times more efficient, could well be more. It's kind of ambiguous so not sure we can put a hard figure to it other than to say we know it's looking a generation ahead of anything else.
But yes the point being missed by many is this specific hardware by sony that is a game changer along with the ssd speed. Only all together (as below) is this effectively next next gen. A fast SSD alone is just not enough.
pawel86ck
Banned
You still need hardware in order to remove these bottlenecks he is talking about.
mitchman
Gold Member
Not the hw based decompressor, the DMA to video memory, the cache scrubbers, they won't. The PC as we know it, must be re-designed to remove the bottleneck in the system first, namely the CPU.
geordiemp
Member
Agree, I think all the gossip talk of RDNA3 is probably about integrating the SSD pipeline to the GPU like Ps5 has done with silicon hardware.
Lets face it, old gen console games are only 5GB RAM or so, so should load in full in well under a second, and streaming using next gen APIs on next gen should be bottleneck free and fractions of a frame.
Not seen it yet from anyone else, not even close.
I am yet to be convinced anyone else can get close to this on other systems without implementing more hardware changes, which will come for sure.
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mitchman
Gold Member
Just to followup with a quote from Tim Sweeney regarding this.
"Those PC numbers are theoretical, and are from drive into kernel memory. From there, it's a slow and circuitous journey through software decompression to GPU driver swizzling into video memory where you can eventually use it. The PS5 path for this is several times more efficient."
Do you have information about the PC architecture the manager of Epic Games does not have?
pawel86ck
Banned
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Jayjayhd34
Member
I don't know if its because haven't slept and misreading that tweet, but I'm really confused the guy he's replying to Is getting speeds wrong he's implying SATA 3 is faster than than PS5 SSD or am totally reading it wrong ?
cHaOs667
Member
I'm more concerned that Tim Sweeney also
Edit: There is a serious difference: One is Gigabyte per second and one is Gigabit per second! And 8 GB/s is a complete different hallmark than 8 Gb/s...
I'm also concerned that even Tim Sweeney did not see that the guy confused GB/s with Gb/s... WTF?!
Edit: There is a serious difference: One is Gigabyte per second and one is Gigabit per second! And 8 GB/s is a complete different hallmark than 8 Gb/s...
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FranXico
Member
There will be new generations of APUs for desktop incorporating tech from consoles. PC will get this too.
Jayjayhd34
Member
Someone must of said something because the tweets gone.
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geordiemp
Member
Well, forget the technobable, just look at the end result.
So last gen games on Ps4 and Xb1 take up less than 5 GB RAM, thats the allocated space. So last gen games should load in less than 1 second comfortably without doing anything.
Streaming 8K textures in nanoseconds of a frame is something else entirely, requires hardware to do everything quickly, not just an SSD. See sweeny tweets.
So what have we seen so far ? Ps5 loads spiderman in under second, check. UE5 mega demo, check.
What else have we seen from anyone else ?
Nothing yet really .
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martino
Member
Something is not clear here : Is he talking considering current state or with storage api we know near nothing for pc in mind ?
MeatSafeMurderer
Member
It depends. If it's being decompressed and written to RAM that's not a problem, reading doesn't really affect wear. However if the decompressed data then gets written back to the SSD to use it as some sort of scratch disk...well you can say goodbye to that SSD in just a year or so and there's really nothing Sony or Microsoft can do about it. It's inherent to nand flash technology. Wear levelling (shuffling around data as it's written to ensure each individual cell is written to no more than any other cell) is already standard.
Shmunter
Member
His answer was likely in a generic sense in that no matter the ssd speed on pc, the lack of dedicated dma I/o means it cannot be realised
Unreal engine 4 demo unplayable
Now go play some god of war all realtime and playable
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mitchman
Gold Member
A storage api such as the upcoming DirectStorage can only mitigate the bottleneck to a certain degree, you need custom hardware blocks to get rid of the overhead in a way closer to the PS5 architecture. This might be available on PC next year, but it'll cost money. So as of right now, there is no equivalent of what PS5 has on the PC side.
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Major_Key
perm warning for starting troll/bait threads
Series X SSD have API DirectStorage who let dev low level access of Custom Nvme. 100Gb of assets is instantly accessible from VRAM.
Major_Key
perm warning for starting troll/bait threads
Pretty sure MS will use this Persistant memory tech from Intel. There is a lot of resemblance to Velocity architecture, and Intel have said themselves that they do not need DMA with this tech and that they are in partnership with Microsoft. Result: DirectStorage arrives on windows at the end of the year.
Major_Key
perm warning for starting troll/bait threads
This is exactly what Microsoft says and do :
-More immersive world & seamless
-Quick Resume (VRAM)
-Accelerated load times thanks to DirectStorage & Hardware decompression
-More detailed world
To this you add the Sampler Feedback streaming, BCpack and their Revamped Texture Streaming system, this gives the Velocity Architecture.
It is clearly not the same vision as sony.
-More immersive world & seamless
-Quick Resume (VRAM)
-Accelerated load times thanks to DirectStorage & Hardware decompression
-More detailed world
To this you add the Sampler Feedback streaming, BCpack and their Revamped Texture Streaming system, this gives the Velocity Architecture.
It is clearly not the same vision as sony.
hyperbertha
Member
Every single thing you were spouting on these forums for the past three months have been thrashed by that UE5 demo. Do you seriously expect us to believe your BS at this point? Just try saying SSDs won't affect fidelity once more here. I don't care that you can play games at 4k 60 fps on PC. Trash graphics at 4k 60 is still trash.
hyperbertha
Member
you :Not impressed at all with that tech demo. Looked good for UE5 but bad performance from the PS5.
1440p / 30 FPS on a custom made PS5 tech demo means that something is wrong. Where was the power of the SSD?
ethomaz
Banned
The tech shows by Epic added triangles/details to the screen without the need of GPU rasterization.
It direct stream the data from the storage and though software rasterization (CPU?) added them to the render output.
So the demo was not about resolution but level of detail in the screen.
Being 1080p, 1440p, or 4k won’t change direct the level of detail being added by that tech... actually the tech is not related with the resolution or the render.
Due the speed of the streaming from storage you could end having less detail even at higher resolution or in the case of PS5 the max level of detail actually allowed by the storage tech with average resolution of 1440p.
Xbox and PC can render a higher resolution but with less details due the limitation of SSD actual speeds.
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Brofist
Member
Wow just wow
Ascend
Member
Oh boy... This again... So... I'll repeat it yet again...
I don't see why people see his comments as some sort of novel thing. This has been the case for quite a while, where the consoles use a unified pool of RAM for both the CPU and the GPU. They can both read the same data from RAM and is therefore easily and quickly accessible, while the PC has a separate RAM pool for the CPU, and a RAM pool on the graphics card. The data from the RAM has to be transferred to VRAM before the GPU can do its thing. There's a reason GPUs are installed in PCIe x16 slots, where 3.0 gives you 32GB/s and 4.0 gives you 64GB/s. With the SSDs, it's the same thing, except drives are not that slow anymore.
Note that he's not saying it's impossible either. He's saying the road is a lot longer, which is not new. In practice this would mean keeping more data in RAM to compensate for the longer time that streaming from SSD would require to reach the graphics card.
I do love how everyone is pretending that RAM simply doesn't exist.
PS5's SSD is "far ahead" of those found in high-end PCs, according to Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney
Console OS RAM capacityis what, less than a few GB? Troll account spotted... Out of sheer curiosity, have you ever formatted a drive before? Thumb drive, HDD, SSD, etc? Do you even know what formatting is? Will you have 1TB of free space on a drive after formatting it? Where would the OS...
ethomaz
Banned
I still believe you can cover these bottlenecks and lack of cache and decompressor units with brute force in PC.
7GB/s SSD, more RAM and VRAM, and better CPU/GPU is will do the job without need decompressors, DMAs, cache scrubbers, etc.
At similar PS5 specs it obvious PC won’t delivery the same performance but at higher specs they will.
The only thing holding PC to overcome PS5 today is faster storage media that will come in few months with 7-9GB/s SSDs.
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