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[Craig of War]

I have a 970 Evo 2TB in my gaming PC right now yeah it slower than the PS5 SSD but it is 2TB wile PS5 is what 825GB i will gladly take the trade off in a little slower SSD speed but bigger storage PS5 gone to have about 600GB of useable storage cause the OS gone to take up at least 200GB.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Which ones?

Have no idea.

Tim Sweeney had this to say:
"Sony's storage system is absolutely world class," Sweeney says. "Not only the best-in-class on console, but also the best on any platform. Better than high-end PCs. I think it's going to enable the types of immersion that we could only have dreamed of in the past. The world of loading screens is over. The days of pop-in, geometry pop-in as you're going through game environments, are ended."

But this guy ethomaz says there are PC SSD's today that match PS5.

These SATA 6Gb/s drivers.

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

ps5 has advanced innovative cooling it does not, or at least should not, suffer from such.

Depends on how you define "advanced and innovative"...if by that you mean water cooling or LN2...somehow I doubt. And certainly not for the SSD; not if they want users to be able to easily replace it. Most you're likely to get for that is a heatsink, and without active cooling for both sides (if it is a 2 sided drive) all that is doing is buying time. There's plenty of SSD cooling options out there for PC but...but again, without active cooling on both sides (which is usually not possible thanks to how NVMe SSDs mount, with one side facing the motherboard) then all you're buying is time. Sooner or later that heatsink will reach thermal capacity and the SSD will begin throttling.

 

[Dacon]

Kinda funny how people are always fapping about their favorite platform having a slight edge over another and tearing into each other over this and that, when we all know that within a few months they will all wind up being outpaced by PCs, even if they launch with better performance in some aspect than modern PCs.

Eventually that difference will get closed, because the pc is an open system that can consistently be upgraded.

 

[Riven326]

I wish an SSD was all it took to be a good game designer.

 

[Dargor]

Sweeney wasn't the most hated man in the gaming community?

You're thinking of Todd Howard or Randy Pitchford.

edit: Maybe Peter Molyneux?

 

[sendit]

But still able to do that demo at same detail and maybe higher on today’s PC’s

Not necessarily. Dumbing this down quite a bit:

Todays PC Setup
SSD <--> CPU < --> System RAM <--> GPU RAM

PS5
SSD <--> Unified RAM

I've said this multiple times, their are development pipelines in place to address this issue on PC. However, as of today those limitations are still there regardless if the SSD in your computer exceeds the speed of the PS5's SSD

 

[DoctaThompson]

Not necessarily. Dumbing this down quite a bit:

Todays PC Setup
SSD <--> CPU < --> System RAM <--> GPU RAM

PS5
SSD <--> Unified RAM

I've said this multiple times, their are development pipelines in place to address this issue on PC. However, as of today those limitations are still there regardless if the SSD in your computer exceeds the speed of the PS5's SSD

How big was the demo in size? Was it the SSD speed on ps5 slowing down to cause the framerate drops, or the gpu? Besides that, there's no reason this won't run better on a gaming PC. It already runs pretty good on a 2070 and SSD.

 

[ABnormal]

By 2021, when UE5 releases, PCs will have SSD tech similar to the consoles. By 2022, or 2023, when the first UE5 game is released, consoles will no longer be even in the same ballpark as PCs.

That's irrelevant for two reasons: it's not simply a matter of ssd speed (which will be matched by new ones within not much time after ps5 launch). It's a matter of architecture in general. You can have an ssd potentially four times faster than the one ps5 will have (and in some years from now they will), but without dedicated processors and architecture built around it, it will still be far below the performance in ps5 (as it is now when you put an ssd in a console; you just have a little advantage in loading times).

The second reason is that the games that have to run on pc will be developed around the lowest common denominator (normal hdd), to ensure compatibility (it's not a "graphic scalability" kind of thing: it's about the very structure of a game, of gameplay. So you will not see for years games on pc with a gameplay built around ssd capabilities.

Unfortunately, that means that the only games that will really use ssd completely (beyond loading times) will only be excusives.
But a first step has to be done, and it's alredy a dream came true, for me. I was waiting ssd implementation since last gen.

 

[Alexios]

SSDs like this are about as fast and keep dropping in price. Maybe there are faster now, this one seems to be on the market for around a year already.

ADATA XPG Gammix S50 1TB | Preisvergleich Geizhals EU

✔ Preisvergleich für ADATA XPG Gammix S50 1TB ✔ Bewertungen ✔ Produktinfo ⇒ Kapazität: 1TB (entspricht ca. 931.32GiB bzw. 0.91TiB, weiterführende Informationen hierzu ) • Bauform: S… ✔ Solid State Drives (SSD) ✔ Testberichte ✔ Günstig kaufen

geizhals.eu

But if you're Bill Gates you can have SSDs like this, lol.

GIGABYTE AORUS Gen4 AIC SSD 8TB | Preisvergleich Geizhals EU

✔ Preisvergleich für GIGABYTE AORUS Gen4 AIC SSD 8TB ✔ Produktinfo ⇒ Kapazität: 8TB (entspricht ca. 7450.58GiB bzw. 7.28TiB, weiterführende Informationen hierzu ) • Bauform: … ✔ Solid State Drives (SSD) ✔ Testberichte ✔ Günstig kaufen

geizhals.eu

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

There's plenty of SSD cooling options out there for PC but...but again, without active cooling on both sides (which is usually not possible thanks to how NVMe SSDs mount, with one side facing the motherboard) then all you're buying is time. Sooner or later that heatsink will reach thermal capacity and the SSD will begin throttling.

sony's patent suggests multiside cooling for the apu, similar might be present for the ssd, with heatpipes running from one side to another. If that is so it won't be just buying time like on pc. the main ssd is likely nonreplaceable.

So here is the cooling patent.

Board will have hole punches in it so cooling system goes through it. As well as below it and on top of it . Thats cool . Abit over kill but that means ps5 will be quiet.

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

it will still be far below the performance in ps5 (as it is now when you put an ssd in a console; you just have a little advantage in loading times).

That's not because of architecture it's because of the shit tier jaguar CPUs in the PS4 and Xbox One. CPUs are responsible for I/O requests to pull assets from the SSD and put them into memory. Because the CPUs in the PS4bone are so...bad...this is an area they struggle. PCs don't have this issue. Coincidentally this is also why PCs loading off HDDs are often still faster than a PS4/Xbox One with an SSD.

the main ssd is likely nonreplaceable.

...and I hope for the sake of PS5 buyers everywhere that that is not the case. Otherwise when that SSD dies it'll take the entire console with it.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

...and I hope for the sake of PS5 buyers everywhere that that is not the case. Otherwise when that SSD dies it'll take the entire console with it.

the motherboard will likely die before the ssd.

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

the motherboard will likely die before the ssd.

Oh boy...this generation is going to eye opening for a lot of people. Welcome to the world of SSDs and their (potentially very) limited write endurance.
All I'm saying is that there's a reason I bought a 970 Pro...and speed wasn't it.

 

[psorcerer]

Not necessarily. Dumbing this down quite a bit:

Todays PC Setup
SSD <--> CPU < --> System RAM <--> GPU RAM

PS5
SSD <--> Unified RAM

I've said this multiple times, their are development pipelines in place to address this issue on PC. However, as of today those limitations are still there regardless if the SSD in your computer exceeds the speed of the PS5's SSD

Todays PC Setup
SSD < --> SSD controller <--> CPU < --> System RAM < --> SSD controller < --> CPU < --> System RAM <--> CPU < --> GPU RAM


PS5
SSD <--> SSD controller <--> Unified RAM <--> Decompressor <--> Unified RAM

 

[DoctaThompson]

Oh boy...this generation is going to eye opening for a lot of people. Welcome to the world of SSDs and their (potentially very) limited write endurance.
All I'm saying is that there's a reason I bought a 970 Pro...and speed wasn't it.

Reliability and endurance. And for mass produced SSD's in console, they will not be built with high endurance like the Samsung pro line up are.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

Oh boy...this generation is going to eye opening for a lot of people. Welcome to the world of SSDs and their (potentially very) limited write endurance.
All I'm saying is that there's a reason I bought a 970 Pro...and speed wasn't it.

The ps5 I think won't record stream video to the main drive, at least I hope not. In which case only game installs, updates and saves will constitute writes, and these are rarely done, all in all perhaps thousands of times in a console life cycle.

 

[sendit]

Oh boy...this generation is going to eye opening for a lot of people. Welcome to the world of SSDs and their (potentially very) limited write endurance.
All I'm saying is that there's a reason I bought a 970 Pro...and speed wasn't it.

Good thing gaming doesn't require much write requests towards the SSD.

 

[DoctaThompson]

The ps5 I think won't record stream video to the main drive, at least I hope not. In which case only game installs, updates and saves will constitute writes, and these are rarely done, all in all perhaps thousands of times in a console life cycle.

Does it have a second drive in there? Otherwise you couldn't record if that is the case. Saving games, game updates, system updates, saving screenshots, video, installing a game, moving a game over to a different drive, etc, will all write to the disk.

 

[banjo5150]

Advanced cooling for their SSD? Didn't Series X have one 130mm fan and a heat sync for internal ssd? Ps5 couldn't be much better if it's user replaceable. PC cooling is superior to console cooling. I'm not sure where you got that misconception from lol.

I dont think the PS5 factory SSD is user replaceable. I think the only option is to add to it via the expansion bay. I could be totally wrong but that is how I see it.

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

The ps5 I think won't record stream video to the main drive, at least I hope not. In which case only game installs, updates and saves will constitute writes, and these are rarely done, all in all perhaps thousands of times in a console life cycle.

And each of those thousands of times will involve writing to many thousands, if not tens or hundreds of thousands...or millions of cells. It all adds up...and faster than you might think. Especially if you're constantly uninstalling games to make room for new ones, as a good many people who aren't in the know about this kind of thing will be.

 

[DoctaThompson]

I dont think the PS5 factory SSD is user replaceable. I think the only option is to add to it via the expansion bay. I could be totally wrong but that is how I see it.

If that drive starts acting funky..., it'll be way worse than RROD or YLOD. Completely new system required, just from one component. Ooof

 

[ethomaz]

You are twisting the words out of context and stating it to meet an agenda. No worries. Just won't take you seriously - especially after you see all platforms being able to run that demo and not just PS5.

With different level of detail even mobiles can run... the speed of streaming defines how much detail you can have... it is scalable.

 

[ethomaz]

It will be pretty worrying if the first thing we see is a tech demo that’s running at 1440p and 30fps and no ray tracing is maxing out the super fast SSD in the PS5. Are people not expecting 4k 60fps games? I mean some of the talk here that it can be done on mother hardware to the same level is just silly.

4k yes even most cases being dynamic or temporal constructed.
BTW the demo is 4k dynamic and most of time is close to 1440p like Epic said.

60fps well most games will be 30fps... it is console after all.

 

[banjo5150]

If that drive starts acting funky..., it'll be way worse than RROD or YLOD. Completely new system required, just from one component. Ooof

Good point, didn't look at it that way. I guess an approved drive by Sony will not be able to do all the work if the factory one dies. Actually it would suck to buy a new one and have toss the factory one out. I am very curious now on how this solution actually works.

 

[DoctaThompson]

4k yes even most cases being dynamic or temporal constructed.

60fps well most games will be 30fps... it is console after all.

Depends if the developers utilize the SSD or not. You could fit 100gb of textures in a scene, by bypassing the gpu completely. What they need to do is remove the GPU, and replace it with another SSD. That way they could use all the TF from the second SSD, to double up the framerate, as well as the physics engine, and render everything in 4D. Maybe even 4.5D.

 

[iJudged]

SHOW ME SOMETHING XSEX WON'T BE ABLE TO DO!

 

[DoctaThompson]

SHOW ME SOMETHING XSEX WON'T BE ABLE TO DO!

AC: Valhalla at 4k31fps

 

[iJudged]

He just rattled cages he shouldn't be touching.

 

[Entroyp]

So we shouldn’t get excited for this because XsX can do it also?

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

AC: Valhalla at 4k31fps

too soon

too soon

 

[iJudged]

AC: Valhalla at 4k31fps

Bahhwh gawwwdd that's Thompsons music.

 

[DoctaThompson]

So we shouldn’t get excited for this because XsX can do it also?

We shouldn't get excited because all next gen consoles and pc's can do this. What we should get excited for, is the cheerleaders that are volunteering for their heavenly Lord and Father, Mark Sony.

 

[ethomaz]

Have no idea.

Tim Sweeney had this to say:
"Sony's storage system is absolutely world class," Sweeney says. "Not only the best-in-class on console, but also the best on any platform. Better than high-end PCs. I think it's going to enable the types of immersion that we could only have dreamed of in the past. The world of loading screens is over. The days of pop-in, geometry pop-in as you're going through game environments, are ended."

But this guy ethomaz says there are PC SSD's today that match PS5.

He posted a pic with a Barracuda SATA 6GB/s as proof.
He removed after I said maybe he was confusing Gb with GB.

 

[PSYGN]

Consoles move pcs forward. Lol.

1 year after console release: Consoles hold pcs back.

 

[DoctaThompson]

Someone please find me a motherboard with no ram slots. I don't want DDR2, DDR3, DDR4, or even DDR5. I want to build my next PC with subsidized parts. Absolutely no dedicated ram, as the only ram going into my computer will be VRAM. Less is more! Absolutely nothing to do with cutting corners or cost savings.

If pc's don't go this route, I'll be selling my entire computer and downgrading I mean upgrading to console, where I can enjoy 1440p@sub 30fps.

 

[ethomaz]

Todays PC Setup
SSD < --> SSD controller <--> CPU < --> System RAM < --> SSD controller < --> CPU < --> System RAM <--> CPU < --> GPU RAM


PS5
SSD <--> SSD controller <--> Unified RAM <--> Decompressor <--> Unified RAM

I guess the decompress happens before reach RAM?

 

[Entroyp]

We shouldn't get excited because all next gen consoles and pc's can do this. What we should get excited for, is the cheerleaders that are volunteering for their heavenly Lord and Father, Mark Sony.

Sounds extremely idiotic

 

[ethomaz]

Depends if the developers utilize the SSD or not. You could fit 100gb of textures in a scene, by bypassing the gpu completely. What they need to do is remove the GPU, and replace it with another SSD. That way they could use all the TF from the second SSD, to double up the framerate, as well as the physics engine, and render everything in 4D. Maybe even 4.5D.

That is actually done by CPU/GPU.
SSD doesn’t have processing power btw.

 

[DoctaThompson]

Sounds extremely idiotic

Because it is, yet that's what's going on

 

[psorcerer]

I guess the decompress happens before reach RAM?

Nope. Decompression includes a memory copy (controller pushes to RAM, then calls the decompressor). At least that's what written in the SSD patent.

 

[DoctaThompson]

That is actually done by CPU/GPU.

No it's not. Armchair devs on here said otherwise. You could unplug the power from your ps5, and it would still run from the power of the SSD.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

Dread it. Run from it. Cerny face still arrives

 

[fallingdove]

If that drive starts acting funky..., it'll be way worse than RROD or YLOD. Completely new system required, just from one component. Ooof

Not really.

RROD/YLOD - You ship the console to the manufacturer; they repair it.

Bad SSD - You ship the console to the manufacturer; they repair it.

Most people weren’t fixing their own RROD/YLOD issues. Well, except for people that saw success wrapping their Xbox 360s in a wet towel. Lol

 

[Brofist]

Show me that 6GB/s SDD being sold please...
I can't find it in any place.

The 970 Evo Plus peak at 3.5GB/s.

Edit - Are you not confusing with SATA 6Gb/s? That means SATA can reach max 750MB/s.

https://www.gigabyte.com/Solid-State-Drive/AORUS-Gen4-AIC-SSD-8TB#kf

 

[Entroyp]

https://www.gigabyte.com/Solid-State-Drive/AORUS-Gen4-AIC-SSD-8TB#kf

Holy smokes a PCIe SSD. I haven’t seen one of these before. I wonder how much it costs?

 

[Shmunter]

That's irrelevant for two reasons: it's not simply a matter of ssd speed (which will be matched by new ones within not much time after ps5 launch). It's a matter of architecture in general. You can have an ssd potentially four times faster than the one ps5 will have (and in some years from now they will), but without dedicated processors and architecture built around it, it will still be far below the performance in ps5 (as it is now when you put an ssd in a console; you just have a little advantage in loading times).

The second reason is that the games that have to run on pc will be developed around the lowest common denominator (normal hdd), to ensure compatibility (it's not a "graphic scalability" kind of thing: it's about the very structure of a game, of gameplay. So you will not see for years games on pc with a gameplay built around ssd capabilities.

Unfortunately, that means that the only games that will really use ssd completely (beyond loading times) will only be excusives.
But a first step has to be done, and it's alredy a dream came true, for me. I was waiting ssd implementation since last gen.

Pc will need a dedicated Processor for the i/o. At these new gen speeds and data compression you can no longer rely on the Cpu carrying the load. PS5 I/o is equivalent to 11 zen2 cores to stream the data, doing this in real-time would murder current pc CPU’s...nothing left for the actual game code.

There’s a lot of work to be done in the pc space to catchup to the PS5 in particular. The biggest hurdle on pc is adoption of a massively increased baseline and the exclusion of millions of users who cannot meet the lofty requirements. Interesting times.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Haha ah I don't belive you

It’s not me, it’s him.

 

[Entroyp]

It’s not me, it’s him.

But can we trust what this Tim Sweeny person says? Is he a Sony chill?

 

[psorcerer]

Pc will need a dedicated Processor for the i/o. At these new gen speeds and data compression you can no longer rely on the Cpu carrying the load. PS5 I/o is equivalent to 11 zen2 cores to stream the data, doing this in real-time would murder current pc CPU’s...nothing left for the actual game code.

There’s a lot of work to be done in the pc space to catchup to the PS5 in particular. The biggest hurdle on pc is adoption of a massively increased baseline and the exclusion of millions of users who cannot meet the loft requirements. Interesting times.

Pfft, it's easy, the man in the leather jacket (Jensen Huang ), will release a Nvidia SSDForce 400800 GPU (with on-board SSD) for $5000 and PCMR guys will run to the store faster than light.