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[DoctaThompson]

macOS works weird with RAM upon boot of the system, I already have full 8GB even when nothing is running and somewhat it swaps these "full RAM" with programs. I only have it for XCODE so don't judge. Even then it cost like 2500USD (with 21% VAT). With that I could have a great workstation PC, but well no XCODE no buy. But even like that is fast and I don't have much complains about it.

I am kind of puzzle, why they called XCODE, why not iCODE. XCODE sounds like something from Microsoft.

X doubt! But nah, Mac and Linus distros fill up the ram pool (even when nothing is used), It's not a bad thing at all. Just seems a bit weird if you are used to windows, which only use up ram when you are running something.

 

[M1chl]

X doubt! But nah, Mac and Linus distros fill up the ram pool (even when nothing is used), It's not a bad thing at all. Just seems a bit weird if you are used to windows, which only use up ram when you are running something.

Cool fresh restart then:

Sure I am not saying that is something weird, as far as I know Linux at least use large memory pages 1GB+ if I am not mistakem, which they can be filled up then, so it works faster then Windows PC, where memory is more fragmented (I never done programming on Linux, maxOS or unix based OS, so I cannot confirm this stuff myself and it's too late for me to search internet)...

 

[Iced Arcade]

See this is what happens when schools get shut down from covid-19. Kids up all night on the interwebs

 

[ResilientBanana]

16GB is fine considering how fast it is.

 

[DoctaThompson]

Cool fresh restart then:

Sure I am not saying that is something weird, as far as I know Linux at least use large memory pages 1GB+ if I am not mistakem, which they can be filled up then, so it works faster then Windows PC, where memory is more fragmented (I never done programming on Linux, maxOS or unix based OS, so I cannot confirm this stuff myself and it's too late for me to search internet)...

Haha it definitely looks strange how it works compared to windows. But I'm sure you can open a million and one chrome tabs, and it wouldn't feel like you are struggling to free up ram.

 

[psorcerer]

Haha it definitely looks strange how it works compared to windows. But I'm sure you can open a million and one chrome tabs, and it wouldn't feel like you are struggling to free up ram.

It's easy to reason about.
In fact you should never have any "free" ram. Because it means your OS is not using your hardware to the full extent.

 

[DoctaThompson]

It's easy to reason about.
In fact you should never have any "free" ram. Because it means your OS is not using your hardware to the full extent.

I can finally agree with you for once!

 

[JustP_Gaming]

Did they not say the developer have the option to use the SSD as additional ram if they so decided?

 

[JustP_Gaming]

Thread of the year? I think so. Holt shit this is painful to read.

This is what happens when the other company starves their users of info.

 

[Jigga117]

Wow some of you armchair engineers have no fucking clue what your talking about. Thread started over 16gig and completely ignores both software and hardware with this new system. I still don't get how some of you keep comparing how games systems work vs PC systems. We finally get factual information and some of you fanboys go off about it being 16gigs. Come one brah.

 

[Reallink]

Wow some of you armchair engineers have no fucking clue what your talking about. Thread started over 16gig and completely ignores both software and hardware with this new system. I still don't get how some of you keep comparing how games systems work vs PC systems. We finally get factual information and some of you fanboys go off about it being 16gigs. Come one brah.

You mean like how they put out similar articles trumpeting that Xbone's ESRAM was going to transform the industry and PS4's GDDR approach was last gen? They have no doubt created very real hardware/software solutions to make it work as best it can, but certainly 16GB was a hard fought compromise. There's no doubt their early goals were 32GB or 24GB, but RAM price fixing and phones eating up all the supply obviously tied their hands. It is what it is, and they've evidently made the best of it, but to pretend this was the ideal all along is just stupid. Anything they say to the contrary is kindergarten level damage control. This isn't Fanboy wars, PS5 is almost definitely going to be saddled with the same problem and will have to devise similar crutches.

 

[Jigga117]

You mean like how they said Xbone's ESRAM was going to transform the industry and PS4's GDDR approach was last gen? They no doubt have created hardware/software solutions to make it work as best it can, but certainly 16GB was a compromise. There's little doubt their early goals were 32GB or 24GB, but RAM price fixing and phones eating up all the supply obviously tied their hands.

What does 2013 got to do with 2020. And how is it less than 24hrs we learned about this system and yall act like you have already had hands on with how this system is going to work out.

 

[psorcerer]

You mean like how they put out similar articles trumpeting that Xbone's ESRAM was going to transform the industry and PS4's GDDR approach was last gen? They have no doubt created very real hardware/software solutions to make it work as best it can, but certainly 16GB was a hard fought compromise. There's no doubt their early goals were 32GB or 24GB, but RAM price fixing and phones eating up all the supply obviously tied their hands. It is what it is, and they've evidently made the best of it, but to pretend this was the ideal all along is just stupid. Anything they say to the contrary is kindergarten level damage control. This isn't Fanboy wars, PS5 is almost definitely going to be saddled with the same problem and will have to devise similar crutches.

If you look at the RDNA2 diagrams. It says 64bit controller per block and 10 cu per block.
If we assume it's the optimal config then 24gb was indeed the goal.
But they went with 12 cu per block it seems.
So while cutting 4gb from max 20gb possible in the current design is indeed a cost saving measure. Using 20gb max instead of 24gb max may be not.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Compared to Linux it still have a bigger footprint because of so many things that weren't meant for gaming.
I can't speak of Game Core or Gaming Core (whatever it's called), but that's a part of the OS itself I think?

The Linux kernel can be compiled with only the bare minimum for your desired uses (however Playstation are based on BSD or free BSD). All these open source kernels are open source to allow people to modify them to suit their needs, my PS4 has been prety snappy... this is not a bloated OS.

 

[Reallink]

What does 2013 got to do with 2020. And how is it less than 24hrs we learned about this system and yall act like you have already had hands on with how this system is going to work out.

It's a tale as old as time, is what it has got to do with it. Companies will always employ puffery to explain away questionable specs and features. In almost every case it's a cost/profit issue, but saying they/you couldn't afford more RAM is obviously shitty PR.

 

[Pimpbaa]

This gen needed a lot of ram due to 5400rpm hard drives (had to keep more shit in ram). Fast SSDs makes "only" 16GBs of ram a non-issue.

 

[Reallink]

If you look at the RDNA2 diagrams. It says 64bit controller per block and 10 cu per block.
If we assume it's the optimal config then 24gb was indeed the goal.
But they went with 12 cu per block it seems.
So while cutting 4gb from max 20gb possible in the current design is indeed a cost saving measure. Using 20gb max instead of 24gb max may be not.

That's 16GB shared. The OS pool is not subject to any RDNA2 VRAM ideals, yes? Logically, they would have preferred to max out VRAM, and then had an OS pool on top of that.

 

[VincentMatts]

Thread of the year? I think so. Holt shit this is painful to read.

ever since that time where everyone left for the other site, the quality has gone down the shitter here.

 

[xPikYx]

As I said many times, 16 was incredibly low value, I was expecting 32GB or at least 24GB. 16GB is less than the bare minimum I was expecting. Disappointing!

If we look at sony PS generations, each generation improved 8times the amount of RAM of the previous. Now I undestand that going to 512MB (ps3) to 8GB (ps4) is different from going from 8GB to 64GB,is unthinkable, but still, at least 32GB of shared memory please. These systems gotta last 7 years... Or maybe not, this time around we are gonna see a new console every 2/3 years and tgan I understand why going so low

 

[Jigga117]

As I said many times, 16 was incredibly low value, I was expecting 32GB or at least 24GB. 16GB is less than the bare minimum I was expecting. Disappointing!

If we look at sony PS generations, each generation improved 8times the amount of RAM of the previous. Now I undestand that going to 512MB (ps3) to 8GB (ps4) is different from going from 8GB to 64GB,is unthinkable, but still, at least 32GB of shared memory please. These systems gotta last 7 years... Or maybe not, this time around we are gonna see a new console every 2/3 years and tgan I understand why going so low

so your simply fixated with the number and ignore EVERYTHING else with how the ram is used and system specs yet you think in 2-3 years we got to get another upgraded system? Like we do with GPUs on PC?

 

[Playboi Carti]

What people fail to understand here is that 13.5GB is not bad if it were GPU only memory. The big problem here is that those 13.5 are being shared by the GPU AND the CPU. That's like having a "next-gen 4K gaming PC" with 8GB of system RAM and 6GB of VRAM, yikes. Even sub 500$ gaming PC's already pack more than 20GB of combined RAM.

 

[-kb-]

What people fail to understand here is that 13.5GB is not bad if it were GPU only memory. The big problem here is that those 13.5 are being shared by the GPU AND the CPU. That's like having a "next-gen 4K gaming PC" with 8GB of system RAM and 6GB of VRAM, yikes. Even sub 500$ gaming PC's already pack more than 20GB of combined RAM.

Not quite.

Its like having a gaming pc that has 13.5GB of the memory for the game only.

 

[megreotsugua]

Ps5 and series x should have 128gb but thats not possible cosidering the prices but fucking 16 aint going to help shit its simply a pro console like ps4 pro or one x

A Sony engineer said we will see ReRAM is 2020. Sony has 128GB and 256GB of ReRAM to launch.

 

[Flick]

As I said many times, 16 was incredibly low value, I was expecting 32GB or at least 24GB. 16GB is less than the bare minimum I was expecting. Disappointing!

If we look at sony PS generations, each generation improved 8times the amount of RAM of the previous. Now I undestand that going to 512MB (ps3) to 8GB (ps4) is different from going from 8GB to 64GB,is unthinkable, but still, at least 32GB of shared memory please. These systems gotta last 7 years... Or maybe not, this time around we are gonna see a new console every 2/3 years and tgan I understand why going so low

If you don’t know what you are talking about, then it would be better if you just shut up.

This is complete utter nonsense what you are blabbering about here. It’s embarrassing.

 

[Playboi Carti]

Not quite.

Its like having a gaming pc that has 13.5GB of the memory for the game only.

That was exactly what I said lmao, 8 + 6 = 14

 

[-kb-]

That was exactly what I said lmao, 8 + 6 = 14

But its not, because you can use all of it for either, there's no split unlike a PC. Its more flexible.

 

[Flick]

That was exactly what I said lmao, 8 + 6 = 14

Lmao you can’t compare pc and console Like that. Especially when it comes to RAM.
PC are extremely inefficient when it comes to RAM - unlike consoles.

Also, don’t forget that consoles now have SSDs and devs can use that.

Also, they are using very fast GDRR6 RAM. You have to take that into account also.

 

[godhandiscen]

If you are constantly streaming assets to RAM, then your biggest limiting factor is not RAM capacity but RAM bandwidth. My understanding is that the RAM works in tandem with the optimized SSD that has decompression hardware backed in to deliver a next generation experience.

Defining the Next Generation: An Xbox Series X|S Technology Glossary - Xbox Wire

[Editor’s Note: Updated on 10/21 at 11AM to ensure it is now reflective of the capabilities across both of our next-gen Xbox consoles following the unveil of Xbox Series S.] As we enter a new generation of console gaming with Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S, we’ve made a number of technology...

news.xbox.com

Focus on:

Sampler Feedback Streaming (SFS) – A component of the Xbox Velocity Architecture, SFS is a feature of the Xbox Series X hardware that allows games to load into memory, with fine granularity, only the portions of textures that the GPU needs for a scene, as it needs it. This enables far better memory utilization for textures, which is important given that every 4K texture consumes 8MB of memory. Because it avoids the wastage of loading into memory the portions of textures that are never needed, it is an effective 2x or 3x (or higher) multiplier on both amount of physical memory and SSD performance.

DirectStorage – DirectStorage is an all new I/O system designed specifically for gaming to unleash the full performance of the SSD and hardware decompression. It is one of the components that comprise the Xbox Velocity Architecture. Modern games perform asset streaming in the background to continuously load the next parts of the world while you play, and DirectStorage can reduce the CPU overhead for these I/O operations from multiple cores to taking just a small fraction of a single core; thereby freeing considerable CPU power for the game to spend on areas like better physics or more NPCs in a scene. This newest member of the DirectX family is being introduced with Xbox Series X and we plan to bring it to Windows as well.

Hardware Decompression – Hardware decompression is a dedicated hardware component introduced with Xbox Series X to allow games to consume as little space as possible on the SSD while eliminating all CPU overhead typically associated with run-time decompression. It reduces the software overhead of decompression when operating at full SSD performance from more than three CPU cores to zero – thereby freeing considerable CPU power for the game to spend on areas like better gameplay and improved framerates. Hardware decompression is one of the components of the Xbox Velocity Architecture

At the end of the day, the numbers are meaningless if the experience isn't there. It will be up to the games to take advantage of these techniques and deliver something new with them.

 

[FMX]

Some of you trolls make me sick! You want everything, and nothing! The same people complaining about the amount of RAM are also some of the same people wanting a console that costs $399 (I literally remember some of you guys' usernames).

This console is going to be pretty expensive, as is. But, now you want more RAM? 24 Gbs of RAM? Are you serious? Can you afford this beast with all its current specs, but with 24 Gbs of GDDR6 RAM? You guys are behaving like it's 16 Gbs of DDR3 RAM. Please shut up!

^^^^^This is the post of the day. That is the point these folks are missing it's GDDR6!!!^^^^^^^^

 

[Flick]

Some of you trolls make me sick! You want everything, and nothing! The same people complaining about the amount of RAM are also some of the same people wanting a console that costs $399 (I literally remember some of you guys' usernames).

This console is going to be pretty expensive, as is. But, now you want more RAM? 24 Gbs of RAM? Are you serious? Can you afford this beast with all its current specs, but with 24 Gbs of GDDR6 RAM? You guys are behaving like it's 16 Gbs of DDR3 RAM. Please shut up!

Thank you.

This whole thread is embarrassing af.

 

[Mendou]

I'm gonna sound really ignorant, because I don't know much about hardware these days. But I'm gonna post this anyway.

The PS2 had about ten times the amount of RAM of the PS1. The PS3 had more than eight times the RAM of the PS2. And the PS4 had 16 times the total RAM of the PS3. So, we're really settling for just 16GB of RAM for next gen? Maybe it has something to do with the speed. But so did previous gens.

I don't get it. But please be gentle with me, because I don't know much about this stuff anymore.

They need to compromise somewhere to keep the price low for consumers, and considering the growing cost for GDDR6 ram, it was the target. But you shouldn't worry considering a 40x increase in SSD bandwidth well over makes up for it.

 

[Spreewaldgurke]

Can a developer please give a comment on RAM (in general)?
Too much craziness here...

 

[Screamer-RSA]

Complains console doesn’t have 24 GB GDDR6 will also complain if console more than 500USD.

 

[Spreewaldgurke]

Complains console doesn’t have 24 GB GDDR6 will also complain if console more than 500USD.

Never understood why people paying 1000$ for a phone but 600$ for a console is too expensive....

 

[gamerforever]

The biggest issue will be the ssd card size. I feel this gen is too early to have ssd as the primary storage as we really need 8tb per console if games need to be installed on it. 16gb ram is plenty.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I guess 16 gigs in console could be enough.

Manufacturers could be focusing on faster processors to facilitate ray tracing, ai etc which requires smaller teams.

More ram would mean detailed textures but bigger teams and more work for Dev's.

I am not fully aware of nitty gritty of game development and this is merely a guess.

Last gen 8 gb was hardly taxed so I guess 16 would be solid for next gen.

 

[MrA]

Never understood why people paying 1000$ for a phone but 600$ for a console is too expensive....

Because a video game consoles just play games, a phone is a status symbol

 

[SaltyMcSalt]

I guess 16 gigs in console could be enough.

16 or less will be enough if Sony announces 16 or less. If they announce more, 16 will be the end of the world.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

This gen needed a lot of ram due to 5400rpm hard drives (had to keep more shit in ram). Fast SSDs makes "only" 16GBs of ram a non-issue.

That doesn't make any sense. SSDs are orders of magnitude slower than GDDR6 VRAM. You can't substitute memory with the SSD.

 

[ZywyPL]

16 or less will be enough if Sony announces 16 or less. If they announce more, 16 will be the end of the world.

It's funny because it's true. All Sony needs is to add half a gig of DDR memory and Sony fanboys will go nuts over it.

Focus on:

Sampler Feedback Streaming (SFS) – A component of the Xbox Velocity Architecture, SFS is a feature of the Xbox Series X hardware that allows games to load into memory, with fine granularity, only the portions of textures that the GPU needs for a scene, as it needs it. This enables far better memory utilization for textures, which is important given that every 4K texture consumes 8MB of memory. Because it avoids the wastage of loading into memory the portions of textures that are never needed, it is an effective 2x or 3x (or higher) multiplier on both amount of physical memory and SSD performance.

This is basically AMD HBCC, something I hoped to see in next-gen consoles.

 

[Old Empire.]

^^^^^This is the post of the day. That is the point these folks are missing it's GDDR6!!!^^^^^^^^

Don't listen to people who think 16 gigs of GDDR6 not enough memory.

 

[Bankai]

Bunch of spoiled brats in here.

Back in my day, we had 64kb of RAM on the C64. And remember Bill Gates absolutely said that 640kb of RAM was enough. So yeah.

 

[Shin]

The Linux kernel can be compiled with only the bare minimum for your desired uses (however Playstation are based on BSD or free BSD). All these open source kernels are open source to allow people to modify them to suit their needs, my PS4 has been prety snappy... this is not a bloated OS.

You're reading that wrong, I was referring to Windows being bloated not Linux/FreeBSD.

 

[Shangounchained]

Ah, so this is why they've harped on tflops so loudly.

Some of us called this out at the original announcement thread and were called fanboys for not fawning over it.

Exactly why they bloated about teraflops and load times and never talked about ram, they knew they had shit ram.

 

[Shangounchained]

Thats why devs can use the SSD to offload stuff that usually goes to the RAM and use the actual RAM for assets that need fast access only. Watch todays digital foundry video theyre explaining it there

They are all tricks its dejavu 16gb is 16gb

 

[Evilms]

Sorry, author, but GDDR6 is very expensive.

An RTX 2080 card with 8 GB of GDDR6 is over $650.

So 16 GB of GDDR6 on a console that will be between 499$ and 599$ is already excellent and sufficient.

The PS4/Pro was 8 GB of GDDR5 with 5 GB & 5.5 GB for games.
The XBO was 8 GB of DDR3 with 5 GB for games.
The XBO X is 12 GB of GDDR5 with 9 GB for games.

The Series X is maybe only 16 GB of GDDR6 but it will be 13.5 GB for gaming it's a huge leap compared to the original PS4 and XBO.

 

[Shangounchained]

I personally have 96GB of RAM for my Mac and regularly push 30GB+ used just doing normal things. (no video editing or creating of any kind. When I do, i'll use a lottt more)

They dont make games to use 96gb yet simply because they engineer them to run on 8gb consoles and now a new shadow of mordor would be engineered to run on 16gb its not how much ram you have its how much ram the masses have

 

[Von Hugh]

Good grief, you are insane.

 

[Spukc]

Good grief, you are insane.

your* insane.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Exactly why they bloated about teraflops and load times and never talked about ram, they knew they had shit ram.

I don't think you understand how this system works. You can't even properly explain why this isn't enough RAM.