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[skneogaf]

My pc is more powerful but I'm sick to death of different store fronts, system updates constantly needing to find the best drivers for a game. If I can get freesync 4k@120 (40 to 120 range) and dolby atmos then I may try just console gaming for a while as game pass is cool, ea pass is cool and I'm now old enough to realise I don't have enough time to play every game on my steam list.

 

[phil_t98]

That's like arguing over who did more leg-stretches prior to a race.

Sit down and munch popcorn with the rest of us.

if you read my post I have said we need as a gamer both consoles to push each other

 

[Jadsey]

Oh wow!

They have actually confirmed 12 TF RDNA 2??!!

what a relief.

I mean, who cares about games when you have 12 TF RDNA2....

 

[Hendrick's]

Oh wow!

They have actually confirmed 12 TF RDNA 2??!!

what a relief.

I mean, who cares about games when you have 12 TF RDNA2....

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

if you read my post I have said we need as a gamer both consoles to push each other

Yes, yes, "competition is good", I never said anything to the contrary.

Because even if SSD speeds have diminishing result (I can confirm, with PCiE4 NVMe SSD vs Sata3 Samsung 840), it's such an insane jump from optical HDD, it's not even funny.

I mean, an obvious example would be how the PS4 Pro supports SATA III while stock PS4 only supports SATA II. The bus speed differences are objective, but the real-world outcome might not be as pronounced depending on how the game is designed. Going from a 6gb/s speed up to (hypothetical) 18gb/s would be a boon for games that rely on disc reads.

the problem here is tho that we are looking at 2 systems that both use AMD hardware. both use ZEN2 Cpu cores as well. both use GDDR6 RAM.
the differences will not be very much in terms of what kind of hardware is in there aside from the GPU.

the only thing that could be different is the RT hardware. Microsoft seemingly uses modified but most likely pretty standard AMD hardware that is used in RDNA2 GPUs.
Sony could have custom made parts for their RT solution since they will most likely use RDNA1 with added features.

I saw these exact arguments prior to the PS4 vs X1 launch. Not interested in speculation until more of the pieces are filled in. Feel free to draw conclusions of your own, I'm not gonna stop you.

 

[Jadsey]

I loooove the salt!

 

[GamingKaiju]

This thing is going to cost a pretty penny. I can easily see $499 minimum, but common sense tells me $549.99 or $599.

The trump card they have up their sleeve is the Series S (or whatever name they call it), which can easily be under $399. I'd guess it would be $349.99. Odd numbers to see in the console space, but this coming gen is very different from any other gen, having the highest jump gen-to-gen, easily!

Microsoft would be insane to go above $499 in the states imo. It is going to be a strange gen to be sure. Normally at this point we would have some new info of games for the incoming gen so I think we are going to get a lot of cross-gen games for the first 12-18 months.

 

[GymWolf]

This console will be a beast.
I am one of those who watch YouTube, Netflix and amazon prime on my console.
I have no problem with Netflix and YouTube app.
Amazon is less practical.
I watch UHD Blu-rays too.
It’s really convenient to be able to do all this on a single machine.
I’ll do the same with series X.

i use a pc, smart tv or tablet for that, console are only for games
and blueray, but i buy so few of them onestly.

 

[Dural]

speculation? we know there is a chip made for Sony that, depending on the clock-rate they chose, is somewhere in-between 9TF and 10TF of performance. We know that for a fact... this chip is still in active development, which we also know as it got new revisions as recent as this January.
The leaks that showed us that chip also included details for another chip... an RDNA2.0 chip with VRS and RT support that would reach 12TF when clocked at 1.7ghz... and now we have Microsoft coming out and confirming RDNA2 and 12TF, as well as reconfirming RT and VRS.

I am really confused as to how much more people want until they would accept that this is a very VERY hot lead and by far the most reliable source we have. and people just throw that source out the window with zero logical explanation as to why

Yep, and we also know they were testing it at different clock rates with a certain number of CUs disabled that matches up perfectly with the speeds of PS4 and PS4Pro. That's also how Sony prefers to do their backwards compatibility.

 

[GymWolf]

Disc read speeds have been a bottleneck since the beginning.

HDDs were used to offset that somewhat and became a new bottleneck. This past gen the CPU was a major bottleneck as well. Teraflops are one metric out of several, is that not the case?

I don't know what Sony is going to do with their box, I just think this 9 TF vs 12 TF stuff is silly, especially when it is based on speculation.

Add in the fact that we've been hearing about "scalability" for months now and it matters even less in my mind.


Hardly irrelevant when both console manufacturers are making much ado about their custom SSDs. I know how PC hardware works and have been working with it for ages. Benchmark-junkies can compare numbers but I'm interested in the end result. If the SSD results in significantly faster asset-loading it will make a difference in performance, it's that simple. Or it could be offset by a larger RAM buffer, or it could be offset by faster GPU. That is the nature of gaming hardware.

yeah but we know that they are both using fast ssd this time, i don't think that a minor difference can be that relevant.
of course we are talking about rumors, nothing is writted in stone for now, but we have to pass time somehow

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Teraflops are the console equivalent to horsepower for cars... it implies a certain level of performance but doesn't equate to a full picture of what the car can do. If you are looking at a 200 horsepower car vs a 400 horsepower car it is a reasonable assumption to think the 400 horsepower car is twice as powerful. HOWEVER that 200 horsepower car can have a better set up w/ suspension and tires so on the track they actually could be closer in times even though the cars on paper are not close in the power scale. So in marketing speak ... its more exciting to say look at this impressive 400 horsepower car vs look at this 200 horsepower car w/ great tires and shocks. Would you rather have a console that boasts 12 Teraflops or one that boasts 10 Teraflops or more importantly a streaming service that boasts performance of 10 Teraflops? edit: Remember MS has been on record saying they are looking directly at Google & Amazon as big competitors moving forward. I personally see that 12 Teraflop number as a direct shot at Stadia instead of Sony.

The 12 teraflop figure is most obviously directly targeted at competing against Sony as their primary competitior. Google I'm sure was considered, but ultimately even if Microsoft is wise to take the threat of Amazon and Google seriously and plan for that future, we know they are watching Sony very closely right now. The thing about the horsepower example here is that, based on where both companies are sourcing their tech from, and based on our only reference of how a Navi chip with RDNA architecture compares to other graphics chips out there, we know in this case that the one with the most horsepower is quite clearly the most powerful of the two system. Because the advantage isn't just expected to be with the GPU, but apparently also with the CPU clock speed. And with a GPU teraflop advantage, if it's as big as believed, that also comes with potentially more ROPs for Xbox, more shaders, more texture units, likely more memory bandwidth unless of course Sony goes for some kind of HBM related setup.

 

[Journey]

Not trying to be obtuse, but why the obsession over tflops? We still have a lot of unknowns on the table, both for the PS5 and for the XsX.

RAM? Read/write speed of the fancy-shmancy SSDs? Dedicated audio / raytracing / etc hardware? CPU architecture and power?

I feel like we are salivating over the PR headline when the real-world console performance depends on several other (missing) factors.

Flip it around: if PS5 has dedicated ray-tracing hardware with twice the throughput as XsX, won't that offset the meaningfulness of the GPU tflops? In this presser, Microsoft mentions their "patented variable rate shading", which itself will allow devs to squeeze more out of those 12 tflops than they might normally be able to, and if Sony lacks something equivalent the PS5 could have 12+ tflops and still be lagging behind. If Sony's SSD is significantly faster than Microsoft's, that will drastically affect load speeds and pop-in, perhaps even compensating for a weaker CPU/GPU.

There's a difference between un-knowns and concerns. Based on the RDNA 2.0 architecture and what they did with Xbox One X, I don't see a reason for concern, in fact it may be the opposite when it comes to packing in technology and form factor.

 

[VectorVictor]

Microsoft would be insane to go above $499 in the states imo. It is going to be a strange gen to be sure. Normally at this point we would have some new info of games for the incoming gen so I think we are going to get a lot of cross-gen games for the first 12-18 months.

Agreed...which is why Microsoft's announcement of cross-generational play and upgrades rings so loud right now, especially when they've gotten third parties like CDPR on board with it for what is likely to be one of the biggest third party games released this year.

Yes, I would think Sony would do something similar (at least, it would behoove them to say something right away about this), but for now, Microsoft is the only platform that's communicated this position. Until Sony says 'us too', Microsoft continues to own the cross-generational/backwards compatibility discussion, which will be a large selling point for Microsoft until studios can get next gen games out the door.

 

[ZywyPL]

Yep, and we also know they were testing it at different clock rates with a certain number of CUs disabled that matches up perfectly with the speeds of PS4 and PS4Pro. That's also how Sony prefers to do their backwards compatibility.

Which honestly sucks, in both short and long term scenario - because if that's the route they want to keep following (which totally makes sense given they're already doing it with Pro), that means all their future consoles would have to be designed around n-times 18CU design, and die size is crucial in terms of production costs. And two, again, looking how the things work on Pro, even 3, 4 , 5 generations from now, when you will want to replay some PS4 title, the consoles will lock themselves down to base PS4 specs, 18CU @911MHz, and the games will run no different, a.k.a. dropping frames and resolution.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Agreed...which is why Microsoft's announcement of cross-generational play and upgrades rings so loud right now, especially when they've gotten third parties like CDPR on board with it for what is likely to be one of the biggest third party games released this year.

Yes, I would think Sony would do something similar (at least, it would behoove them to say something right away about this), but for now, Microsoft is the only platform that's communicated this position. Until Sony says 'us too', Microsoft continues to own the cross-generational/backwards compatibility discussion, which will be a large selling point for Microsoft until studios can get next gen games out the door.

Yep, that is a very, very big deal. To know that you can buy the last gen version of a game and be guaranteed the next gen version for free? And not just any game, but one of the absolute biggest 3rd party titles releasing over the next 2 to 3 years? It will be considered big even if other juggernauts drop around the same time.

 

[GamingKaiju]

Agreed...which is why Microsoft's announcement of cross-generational play and upgrades rings so loud right now, especially when they've gotten third parties like CDPR on board with it for what is likely to be one of the biggest third party games released this year.

Yes, I would think Sony would do something similar (at least, it would behoove them to say something right away about this), but for now, Microsoft is the only platform that's communicated this position. Until Sony says 'us too', Microsoft continues to own the cross-generational/backwards compatibility discussion, which will be a large selling point for Microsoft until studios can get next gen games out the door.

Yep I believe Microsoft are hoping that the cross gen talk will help carry the XSX in the first year as their game studios are getting ready to launch their own games after the XSX launch. Have Microsoft acquired any rights to CP2077?

Don't know whats happening with Sony atm they are unusually quiet at this time but they might be prepping their atom bombs but it is strange for them, as I mentioned in the other thread Sony might be having issues with the hardware but that is just my own speculation.

 

[Shin]

Someone can run with it if they want...

How Xbox Has Become the Most Consumer-Friendly of the Big Three

Microsoft and Xbox have become the most user-friendly video game console manufacturer, ahead of Nintendo and Sony, by taking some important steps.

www.escapistmagazine.com

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Yep I believe Microsoft are hoping that the cross gen talk will help carry the XSX in the first year as their game studios are getting ready to launch their own games after the XSX launch. Have Microsoft acquired any rights to CP2077?

Don't know whats happening with Sony atm they are unusually quiet at this time but they might be prepping their atom bombs but it is strange for them, as I mentioned in the other thread Sony might be having issues with the hardware but that is just my own speculation.

Microsoft has the Cyberpunk 2077 marketing deal.

 

[darkinstinct]

Microsoft has the Cyberpunk 2077 marketing deal.

That reminds me, have all games with marketing deals come to Game Pass? I remember Tomb Raider and Metro Exodus.

 

[Shin]

Skipping current gen is going to pay off in style with XS enhancing them gam3z

 

[OmaeWaMouShindiggity]

"Much more important" according to who?

Seems like the PR engine is revving hard and it has only been 1 day.

what exactly is the pr engine revving? MS has given us hard factual info, Sony hasn't. I'm confused as to how this is being spun into MS doing something wrong.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

what exactly is the pr engine revving? MS has given us hard factual info, Sony hasn't. I'm confused as to how this is being spun into MS doing something wrong.

I didn't claim MS was doing anything wrong. I was replying to the statement "Knowing 12TF And RDNA 2.0 is much much more important right now" which sounds like PR bluster. I want the details.

 

[HolyTruth]

we don't know that but there is not much it can by if it isn't the PS5's chip. Some suggested it's to stream PS4 games through PSNow, but that would be way to expensive of a chip for something like that when Sony could just continue using the existing PS4 hardware and then later just use PS5 hardware to stream all games.

yeah, this streaming doesn’t make any sense lol.
But everything Else, Yeah.

this would also explain why Sony is so silent.
They released the wired article in October. Two months later the GitHub leak happened. Since then: Sony is silent.
Why? Maybe because they realized how much stronger series X is? And that’s why they really can’t reveal anything because they are working to make PS5 strong so that it doesn’t look too weak compared to series X.
It would explain why Sony was so open first (wired articles) and then - as soon as the github leak happened - Sony is silent.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

That reminds me, have all games with marketing deals come to Game Pass? I remember Tomb Raider and Metro Exodus.

I do believe so, even Witcher 3.

what exactly is the pr engine revving? MS has given us hard factual info, Sony hasn't. I'm confused as to how this is being spun into MS doing something wrong.

Exactly. Microsoft is being given credit for actually speaking and saying something. There is good press that comes with giving people what they're obsessing over.

 

[HolyTruth]

Omg hahahaha I can’t even!!! so good

 

[StreetsofBeige]

SeX at RDNA 2 is good but to be fair it says it’s a Custom RDNA 2 which who knows what that means.

maybe that means it’s a combo of RDNA 1 and 2 stuff but for sake of scripture, might as well just say 2.

kind of like Atari Jaguar says it’s 64-but but I think only the graphics chip was, the rest of the system was 16-bit I think, Atari just went with 64 in promos

 

[GamingKaiju]

Microsoft has the Cyberpunk 2077 marketing deal.

Damn!

Scored a potential heavy hitter right out of the gate.

 

[bRacing]

what exactly is the pr engine revving? MS has given us hard factual info, Sony hasn't. I'm confused as to how this is being spun into MS doing something wrong.

When you have your own bias, everything that doesn't appeal to that bias is somehow bad/wrong.

 

[HolyTruth]

SeX at RDNA 2 is good but to be fair it says it’s a Custom RDNA 2 which who knows what that means.

maybe that means it’s a combo of RDNA 1 and 2 stuff but for sake of scripture, might as well just say 2.

No. Who said that? They said RDNA 2. that’s full RDNA 2. not RDNA 1.5. not RDNA 2 lite.

 

[OmaeWaMouShindiggity]

I didn't claim MS was doing anything wrong. I was replying to the statement "Knowing 12TF And RDNA 2.0 is much much more important right now" which sounds like PR bluster. I want the details.

But why is it PR bluster? Its literally a hard number, something to let consumers who care know that THIS is the TF we will be hitting for release. Is the issue that they didn't go into enough detail for you? Or didn't release MORE info?

 

[sendit]

We might be on suicide watch if the PS5 ends up the more powerful console.

 

[OmaeWaMouShindiggity]

We might be on suicide watch if the PS5 ends up the more powerful console.

Would be great, 2nd place Microsoft is hungry Microsoft.

You think Xbox would be where its at today had it not got pummeled this gen?

 

[sendit]

Would be great, 2nd place Microsoft is hungry Microsoft.

You think Xbox would be where its at today had it not got pummeled this gen?

Agreed. They definitely improved:

 

[nikolino840]

[

Would be great, 2nd place Microsoft is hungry Microsoft.

You think Xbox would be where its at today had it not got pummeled this gen?

Good...so casuals buy the console with lower price...so Xbox can grow the user base

 

[darkinstinct]

Agreed. They definitely improved:

How have I not seen this before? It's glorious.

 

[Justin9mm]

although it doesnt work properly on some games, 95% of the time works flawessly for me. Only case i recall not working as expected is fifa, that logs you out after some time suspended. and probably happens the same on ps, since its the way fifa works.

Unless your playing online, the PS is 110% flawless. The difference between Xbox and PS OS and features is that PS always works. Xbox has always been a finicky piece of shit just like Windows. PS does not have this issue. I have owned both for 2 generations and the PS since PS1 so I know.

 

[Mistershine.]

What discount do you think microsoft could get on the apu if they also agreed to take a few million thread rippers for their data centres?

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

But why is it PR bluster? Its literally a hard number, something to let consumers who care know that THIS is the TF we will be hitting for release. Is the issue that they didn't go into enough detail for you? Or didn't release MORE info?

I want the details which I stated in the post you quoted. You seem to be reaching for drama but I ain't your supply. Fish elsewhere.

 

[OmaeWaMouShindiggity]

I want the details which I stated in the post you quoted. You seem to be reaching for drama but I ain't your supply. Fish elsewhere.

You wanting certain details that haven't been released yet doesn't make it PR bluster or revving. The details will come, as they ALWAYS do. Every system, every gen. Just because they don't meet YOUR personal timeline desires doesn't make it PR bluster, fishy.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

SeX at RDNA 2 is good but to be fair it says it’s a Custom RDNA 2 which who knows what that means.

maybe that means it’s a combo of RDNA 1 and 2 stuff but for sake of scripture, might as well just say 2.

kind of like Atari Jaguar says it’s 64-but but I think only the graphics chip was, the rest of the system was 16-bit I think, Atari just went with 64 in promos

The GPU is always customized, so there's nothing surprising there. There are likely some customizations related to the CPU also. What you need to know is that the core architectural base of that GPU is in fact AMD RDNA 2. AMD has been saying this since the scarlett reveal on their official blog. They called it "next gen RDNA"

I think I even saw a job listing somewhere that further confirms it. The Series X is in fact getting the latest AMD GPU tech. As of now, there's no AMD GPU on the PC that beats it, which is insane to say for a console.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

You wanting certain details that haven't been released yet doesn't make it PR bluster or revving. The details will come, as they ALWAYS do. Every system, every gen. Just because they don't meet YOUR personal timeline desires doesn't make it PR bluster, fishy.

Are you having a mental breakdown or something? Oh no someone was indifferent about my console-brand's PR announcement! Quick, need to harass them!

Just tell me the specific thing you want me to concede on and then we can both move to more interesting conversation. I explained myself quite plainly.

 

[wintersouls]

It is very powerful. I hope it does not exceed 500. But honestly, what interests me most are the games. I hope that in this E3 they show what they have been working on.

 

[Shin]

How have I not seen this before? It's glorious.

The follow up is World Exclusive, equally golden.
It's one of the things they need to address, speakers, different and compelling speakers that can sell a product.

 

[OmaeWaMouShindiggity]

Are you having a mental breakdown or something? Oh no someone was indifferent about my console-brand's PR announcement! Quick, need to harass them!

Just tell me the specific thing you want me to concede on and then we can both move to more interesting conversation. I explained myself quite plainly.

Lol.

All I did was ask what makes this announcement/info a PR revving/bluster. What does that even mean????

Its kind of reads like a car company announcing "our new soon to be released sedan will have 400HP and be a turbocharged v6, more info to be released soon" and someone following up with "what a pr bluster, they didn't even tell us what type of brake pads they are going to use"

but u got it champ.

 

[Raphael]

Damn I was fixed on getting a ps5, but not going to lie - sony better be close to that or im no longer sure. This sounds like a beast.

MS still needs to show some proper new amazing exclusives though if they want me, but seems they are back with proper planning this time so im hopeful.

If sony is 9tf in power and ms shows good games i think its going to be a very touch decision but probably a goodbye to PlayStation.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Lol.

All I did was ask what makes this announcement/info a PR revving/bluster. What does that even mean????

Its kind of reads like a car company announcing "our new soon to be released sedan will have 400HP and be a turbocharged v6, more info to be released soon" and someone following up with "what a pr bluster, they didn't even tell us what type of brake pads they are going to use"

but u got it champ.

I'm actually referring to the folks in the thread who are saying it, but apparently restating this several times is still not sufficient for your reading level.

Did you have anything else to add? Seems like you're getting quite the workout jumping from post to post in this thread.

 

[CyberPanda]

Omg hahahaha I can’t even!!! so good

I lol’d

 

[Vawn]

These system specs look great on paper, but we can all agree the games are more important than all other factors combined, right?

 

[NickFire]

These system specs look great on paper, but we can all agree the games are more important than all other factors combined, right?

Yes and no. I say "and no" because there will be so many good games for each system that right now its the specs and price point that matters the most to me.

 

[Jonsoncao]

Since it's been taken down this will have to suffice.

PS5 and Xbox Series X GPU specs leak: how powerful is next-gen?

A remarkable story unfolded last April where it seemed that an intrepid explorer of the 3DMark benchmark database stumb…

www.eurogamer.net

Thank you. However, there is no mentioning of XSX having RDNA2 in that article? or there is some implication I did't catch.