GamingKaiju
Member
Nice, just waiting on price now. I hope they go cheaper than the X1 £430 on release.
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Microsoft confirms 12 TF RDNA 2 for the Xbox Series X
- Thread starter darkinstinct
- Start date
01011001
Banned
I really don't get it either, especially now that 1 of the specs are basically confirmed.
we knew the CU count and RDNA2 for Series X from these leaks.
as soon as you bring them up a bunch of people will jump at you for no reason.
and I absolutely think that after Microsoft finally gave us confirmation these leaks are by far the most believable out there.
all the insiders always dance around with vague numbers like "they are aiming for 10+TF and shit like that.
OmaeWaMouShindiggity
Member
hopefully it means my controller wont disconnect for no reason mid game which leads to me getting shot in the face.
because the 4chan posts make Sony look better
This never happened to me. RMA your controller bruh.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I get what you are saying.. but the "all games on PC" thing was a decision MS likely made well after the Xbox One came out..
You can sell your Xbox if you want, and you got whatever value you got out of the exclusives before the PC thing started... really seems like a pretty lame complaint dude.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
Nah, I don't put any stock into "confidence" based on whether they immediately respond to a press release. That's silly. These a billion-dollar companies implementing plans with 1000s of moving parts.
Microsoft didn't mention how big the RAM pool is, or how fast their SSD is, or the retail price of the system. Does that mean Microsoft is running scared?
This was confirmed a day ago lol. People are fabricating fantasy-drama out of thin air.
OmaeWaMouShindiggity
Member
Dlacy13g
Member
Teraflops are the console equivalent to horsepower for cars... it implies a certain level of performance but doesn't equate to a full picture of what the car can do. If you are looking at a 200 horsepower car vs a 400 horsepower car it is a reasonable assumption to think the 400 horsepower car is twice as powerful. HOWEVER that 200 horsepower car can have a better set up w/ suspension and tires so on the track they actually could be closer in times even though the cars on paper are not close in the power scale. So in marketing speak ... its more exciting to say look at this impressive 400 horsepower car vs look at this 200 horsepower car w/ great tires and shocks. Would you rather have a console that boasts 12 Teraflops or one that boasts 10 Teraflops or more importantly a streaming service that boasts performance of 10 Teraflops? edit: Remember MS has been on record saying they are looking directly at Google & Amazon as big competitors moving forward. I personally see that 12 Teraflop number as a direct shot at Stadia instead of Sony.
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Dory16
Banned
Wouldn't count on that. And let's be fair, what PC does 430£ get you at Curry's PCWorld right now my friend? That's right. Nothing gaming proof at all. Something has to give.
GymWolf
Member
I tried to sell the console but gamestop valutation was ridicolous and in my country almost nobody wants a xone because italy is a sony domain, especially my city.
It's lame for you because you don't have a useless piece of plastic at home and 400 dollars less in your wallet.
We can fucking move on please, i'm tired of explaining myself tbh and i have nothing against microsoft except for this event
Farawayfromhell
Member
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I in fact bought 3 Xbox One's, and have barely used them lolI tried to sell the console but gamestop valutation was ridicolous and in my country almost nobody wants a xone because italy is a sony domain, especially my city.
It's lame for you because you don't have a useless piece of plastic at home and 400 dollars less in your wallet.
We can fucking move on please, i'm tired of explaining myself tbh and i have nothing against microsoft except for this event
GamingKaiju
Member
Us UKers are going to get fucked by the shitty £ aren't we
I'll probably stick to my PC for another year or 2.
GymWolf
Member
SimonGosejohann
Banned
Yeah that's not always such a good word to hear. But MS seems to like their controllers being used everywhere possible so idk if I would worry about it.
ManaByte
Gold Member
It's exactly how the Xbox One controllers ALREADY work. They communicate with the system via MS's proprietary wireless tech, but they also have BlueTooth so they can be used on other devices.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
That's my concern. While I do believe in the adage "there's no replacement for displacement" when it comes to cars, there are many other parts that can boost a vehicle's performance and result in a win at the race track. And it is so for gaming hardware as well. Superior backwards-compatibility (larger list of games and/or
01011001
Banned
yes and it can go the other way aswell.
look at the PS4pro and the One X, on paper the Pro is 4.2TF and the One X is 6TF... at is a 1.4x increase from Pro to X, yet we see in demanding games like Red Dead 2 and many other games that the One X pushes 2x the amount of pixels per second compared to the Pro.
games with dynamic resolutions also often show this pattern of a 2x increase on One X.
it is all about how the console is put together, if there are bottlenecks and so on.
and we see Stadia with its 10.7TF bullshit where games run worse than on One X basically in every single tested case. even games that come close to One X performance like Metro Exodus just fall short from it with missing effects and worse framerates.
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01011001
Banned
most likely 12.18TF when taking the github leaks into account.
we are most likely looking at 56CUs at 1.7ghz
the options are basically:
60CU - 1.6GHZ - 12.28TF
56CU - 1.7GHZ - 12.18TF
52CU - 1.8GHZ - 11.98TF
or the very unlikely:
64CU - 1.5GHZ - 12.28TF
this is unlikely because if they actually used all 64CUs and use a case this large, it would be wasted performance to run at 1.5GHZ, they could up that to 1.7ghz and get to almost 14TF or go all out with 14.9TF at 1.8ghz
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Mista
Banned
Huh? Of course not. They’re explaining what a TF and wants you to imagine what 12 would do
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
It's all so tiring, isn't it?
Not everything is a fan war like gamer's project all the damned time. Companies can speak about themselves within a vacuum situation.
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Mista
Banned
It’s exhausting. I don’t see any benefit out of it at the end of the day
Shin
Banned
Since it's been taken down this will have to suffice.
PS5 and Xbox Series X GPU specs leak: how powerful is next-gen?
A remarkable story unfolded last April where it seemed that an intrepid explorer of the 3DMark benchmark database stumb…
www.eurogamer.net
phil_t98
#SonyToo
They have done more than Sony has so far......
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Get 'em, tiger!
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
That's like arguing over who did more leg-stretches prior to a race.
Sit down and munch popcorn with the rest of us.
These are not really super important details they have to know yet. Knowing 12TF And RDNA 2.0 is much much more important right now.
All the small Details can be outlined later on.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
"Much more important" according to who?
Seems like the PR engine is revving hard and it has only been 1 day.
GymWolf
Member
Not a technician, but i hardly believe that a faster ssd or slightly more powerfull cpu can cover 3+ tf of difference if ps5 is really 9 tf against 12tf of seX.
And i don't really think that microsoft is gonna cheapen up in ram quantity or ssd speed tbh.
If sony really want a 400 dollars machine to convince more casuals, they are gonna be the weaker console almost for sure.
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darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
SSD speeds have diminishing returns.
TLDW: The slowest SSD (SATA) is perceived as the fastest.
Does it matter if you see a loading screen for three seconds or for five? And for RAM there is nothing but GDDR6 regarding price/performance. Does it matter if there are 16 or 18 or 20 GB? No. What does matter are the pure performance specs. Knowing that XSX will be able to deliver the same performance (or even higher) as a 2080 Super is important to know. Only two more powerful GPUs exist today, a 2080 Ti at $1.200 and a Titan RTX at $2.400. Knowing that the console will not be underpowered is important knowledge. Knowing the exact speeds of the SSD (which you never even get, all you get are theoretical peaks and not real life speeds) is irrelevant.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
I imagine it can be a hard pill to swallow for power users of a certain persuasion. And there are others who only believe insiders and nothing else. But IMHO, the game has changed drastically since 2012. Back then you had less people in the game of leaking specs and rumors, and gaming forums were more or less the only real way to get that stuff out there. Twitter wasn't really viable at that time, same goes for other places like Reddit, Youtube, etc. These things existed but weren't even thought about as serious methods of distributing then next-gen rumors and information, it was very much mainly the domain of forums like NeoGAF.
Not only that, but the way these companies handled internal documenting, etc. was a lot different back then, as well. In eight years a ton has changed and it's opened the door for different platforms to be used for relaying information, storing information, etc. New people have joined the game and have their own area of expertise, form their own connections and get involved with the industry in their own unique ways that, imho, compliments the usual insiders.
That's why I've always found it foolish to just put all your eggs into simply one source. It's easier to do, of course, because you can just let that one source inform your opinion the whole way, but it also means you have a narrower perspective and are probably missing the bigger picture.
Just IMHO, if I were to state which of the multiple sources I put the most stock in, it's the dataminers, particularly Komachi, Rogame and the the ilk. Why? Because they're digging for raw, factual data, posting up evidence, and pretty much going by internal company codename schemes to provide context as to what the products are and what they may be for in terms of product line. They aren't really speculating on what it means themselves, leaving that to other people who look at what they dig up. Plus, there have already been several products officiating the data they've dug, matching the benchmarks and other info pretty much precisely.
And so with that, they've found several Oberon steppings, with Oberon having regression tests shown to contextualize it as a PS5 chip due to the clockspeed settings. Again, they're just finding this information and posting it up, practically free of any bias, and just letting the information speak for itself. Whether something comes of it is up to fate.
In fact, it's really only the benchmarks being consistent why I've even kept the Github leak around, personally. That leak just happens to be incidentally validated (to an extent) by the benchmarks. And, it was also incidentally validated with a lot of the news yesterday regarding XSX. So it fits in line with consistent pattern of data and some actual confirmed information. The chances it is verified on one end but completely wrong on the other is pretty slim at this point, but the benchmarks have also shown us that the Github leak is not to be taken 100% and is missing a ton of context and that, yes, it could even be outdated (in relation to itself).
Many of the insiders have good track records, but none have ever been 100% correct and that's something no insider could accomplish tbh. That said some could have outdated sources, others could be more correct about certain things over others (tending to be more correct with software vs. hardware, for example), and others have been vague enough to where you could contextualize a lot of their speculation for a lot of different things (just keep in mind it could be difficult for them to clarify that stuff because their source could have signed NDAs and if the insider gets too specific, the source could be found and held legally responsible to boot). And then you still have others I'd call "insiders", basically piggybackers who have already shown a pretty strong bias and engagement in a way not befitting an insider (I'll just hint that this sort of "insider", is initialed T.F, as an example
)So yeah, while I wouldn't suggest people go full-blown #TeamGithub, it's also foolish to 100% disregard the Github stuff as being irrelevant and not worth part of the discussion; it's certainly still qualified for both. Just keep it tempered is all I would say, but that goes for pretty much any of the other sources aside from that one too.
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DunDunDunpachi
Banned
Disc read speeds have been a bottleneck since the beginning.
HDDs were used to offset that somewhat and became a new bottleneck. This past gen the CPU was a major bottleneck as well. Teraflops are one metric out of several, is that not the case?
I don't know what Sony is going to do with their box, I just think this 9 TF vs 12 TF stuff is silly, especially when it is based on speculation.
Add in the fact that we've been hearing about "scalability" for months now and it matters even less in my mind.
Hardly irrelevant when both console manufacturers are making much ado about their custom SSDs. I know how PC hardware works and have been working with it for ages. Benchmark-junkies can compare numbers but I'm interested in the end result. If the SSD results in significantly faster asset-loading it will make a difference in performance, it's that simple. Or it could be offset by a larger RAM buffer, or it could be offset by faster GPU. That is the nature of gaming hardware.
bRacing
Banned
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
You should watch the video. It's not a benchmark. That's the point.
Tiamat2san
Member
This console will be a beast.What do you need to be impressed??
Even people who talk big in this topic was absolutely not certain about 12tf rdna2 because it's fucking BIG for a home console.
Also why using a console for anything besides videogames? They are born for that, but maybe it's the old man inside me who talk right now
I am one of those who watch YouTube, Netflix and amazon prime on my console.
I have no problem with Netflix and YouTube app.
Amazon is less practical.
I watch UHD Blu-rays too.
It’s really convenient to be able to do all this on a single machine.
I’ll do the same with series X.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
I understand how SSDs function and I understand they have diminishing returns. You have missed the point.
Since we do not have Sony's confirmed specs, nor the full spec-sheet for Xbox series X, nor the confirmed specs for these secret-sauce SSDs, I'm not hinging my opinion based on the partial spec announcement from one of the two console manufacturers. I am not expecting an SSD to compensate for a 25% difference in tflops, but since that gap (if any) is speculation, I don't see the point of belaboring a hypothetical.
01011001
Banned
speculation? we know there is a chip made for Sony that, depending on the clock-rate they chose, is somewhere in-between 9TF and 10TF of performance. We know that for a fact... this chip is still in active development, which we also know as it got new revisions as recent as this January.
The leaks that showed us that chip also included details for another chip... an RDNA2.0 chip with VRS and RT support that would reach 12TF when clocked at 1.7ghz... and now we have Microsoft coming out and confirming RDNA2 and 12TF, as well as reconfirming RT and VRS.
I am really confused as to how much more people want until they would accept that this is a very VERY hot lead and by far the most reliable source we have. and people just throw that source out the window with zero logical explanation as to why
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This thing is going to cost a pretty penny. I can easily see $499 minimum, but common sense tells me $549.99 or $599.
The trump card they have up their sleeve is the Series S (or whatever name they call it), which can easily be under $399. I'd guess it would be $349.99. Odd numbers to see in the console space, but this coming gen is very different from any other gen, having the highest jump gen-to-gen, easily!
T-I-N-M-A-N dX
Member
I mean just to play devils advocate the info can be true on the leaks but whose to say that info wasn’t both of MS’s consoles if in fact there is a weaker one?
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
You're confused that some people are waiting for official specs?
Okay.
Well, I don't know what else to say to help you understand. Can you entertain the notion that perhaps it isn't at the forefront of my concerns and therefore I am not obsessing over a corkboard of yarn-strings?
01011001
Banned
you said the 9 vs 12 figure was silly, when I just told you why it is not and that it is based on factual evidence we have.
it's always great to come in, argue and then when there is a rebuttal to just say "well I don't really care much anyways lol"
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DunDunDunpachi
Banned
Perhaps in your rush to fight the good fight you didn't even read the quote you quoted. Teraflops are not the only metric of a system's power nor does it indicate what sort of bottlenecks it will suffer from. Therefore, arguing about 9 TF vs 12 TF when it's based on speculation is silly. 360 also had a more powerful GPU compared to the PS3. I'm not even claiming that PS5 is gonna be more powerful, I'm saying that there are quite a few missing pieces that I want to learn more about before banging the teraflops drum.
I'm also not saying I don't care. I'm saying I don't ascribe to corkboard conspiracies. The fact that I must explain this difference to you is telling.
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Yep. To be fair though, regarding the leak, we don’t know yet if the other chip is the PS5 chip, or is it confirmed yet? Its highly likely yes, especially since we got the confirmation for the other chip.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Because even if SSD speeds have diminishing result (I can confirm, with PCiE4 NVMe SSD vs Sata3 Samsung 840), it's such an insane jump from magnetical HDD, it's not even funny.
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01011001
Banned
the problem here is tho that we are looking at 2 systems that both use AMD hardware. both use ZEN2 Cpu cores as well. both use GDDR6 RAM.
the differences will not be very much in terms of what kind of hardware is in there aside from the GPU.
the only thing that could be different is the RT hardware. Microsoft seemingly uses modified but most likely pretty standard AMD hardware that is used in RDNA2 GPUs.
Sony could have custom made parts for their RT solution since they will most likely use RDNA1 with added features.
we don't know that but there is not much it can by if it isn't the PS5's chip. Some suggested it's to stream PS4 games through PSNow, but that would be way to expensive of a chip for something like that when Sony could just continue using the existing PS4 hardware and then later just use PS5 hardware to stream all games.