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Gears 5 Is 'Grounded in Diversity' Says Director as Players Praise LGBT, Disability Representation
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ipukespiders
Member
The game isn't a dating simulator. It's a 3rd person humans vs aliens shooter.
"They're trying to flank us, retreat!"
"I'm non binary"
"????"
Thabass
Member
Oh my god. I'm fucking dying. Thank you for this.
Nickolaidas
Member
In the not-too-distant-past, gay people felt ashamed or were told to be ashamed of their sexual orientation. Now they're trying to show themselves as well as those around them that they are proud of their sexual orientation. It's a personal revolution kind of thing.
And frankly, for many straight people it's a little hard to relate since I doubt most of us grew up feeling ashamed that we liked girls. So I can't judge.
SonicFox wore a gay pride flag when he was in yesterday's MK11 tournament, giving the impression that sending a message was more important to him than playing the game itself. Was he right? Was he wrong?
And more importantly, does it matter to us straights? Is he hurting us in some manner?
TheContact
Member
I'm all for having a hero that could be gay or bisexual or transgender or disabled or whatever, but only as long as it makes sense to the story, not something forced in order to fit some kind of PC diversity checkbox
I mean, when King Richard sieged Acre, he couldn't walk so his knights carried him on a stretcher and he still picked mother fuckers off with his crossbow.
I mean, when King Richard sieged Acre, he couldn't walk so his knights carried him on a stretcher and he still picked mother fuckers off with his crossbow.
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48086
Member
"We are just proud....lol promise!"
The Homosexual Manifesto
By Michael Swift, "Gay Revolutionary." Reprinted from The Congressional Record of the United States Congress. First printed in Gay Community News, February 15-21 1987
lukilladog
Member
Well, the problem with sonic fox wearing a gay flag is not that he is expressing himself, the problem is that such freedom of speech is not being granted to everybody, aka double standards.
MMaRsu
Banned
I want games with no politics
MGS3 has no politics in it
Fucking hilarious post filled with bullshit.
Just cause Americans are being torpedoed by political bullshit doesnt mean the rest of the world does and is affected by your pathetic political system.
I love politics in my games, because without it we'd not even have a game like MGS3 OR MGS2.
No strong women? No agenda's? Do you even play the games you listed? What a bunch of fucking bullshit.
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ResilientBanana
Member
Does any of what they added hurt your gameplay experience? If it wasn't mentioned in this article and posted on Neogaf would you have even known it was there? I played for a bit last night and had no clue.
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Nickolaidas
Member
So what? Do you honestly believe all gays think like that? Do you also believe that Jews secretly control the entire world?
BlackOlivesMatter
Banned
Does flaunting your sexual proclivities to complete strangers enhance your gaming experience?
Nickolaidas
Member
I don't think that straights need flags to identify as straights, because they are the norm. A man is expected to be attracted to women and vice versa. It is the exception that feels that it needs to announce itself as such.
Nickolaidas
Member
No, but it helps you embrace your sexual identity when it used to be (and still is in many occasions) ridiculed and frowned upon.
EDIT: I'm not denying however, that it *could* be seen unnecessary to show this when playing Gears of War, of all games. Unless you want to show to other people that 'You know what? Gay people like Gears of War, too!", for all the good that will do.
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lukilladog
Member
Freedom of speech is for everybody, even those that you despise. (Or disagree with)
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Nickolaidas
Member
But why would you need to announce what everyone (more or less) expects from you? Do you, as a straight male, feel so oppressed about your sexual orientation to the point that you feel the need to shout out to the world "I'm straight, and I don't care if you don't like it!!"?
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Did you just assume their sexuality?
lukilladog
Member
But even if they are wrong, you agree that they should be allowed to express themselves too? or not?.
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Nickolaidas
Member
It is well within my rights as a heterosexual non-binary male transvestite lesbian.
BlackOlivesMatter
Banned
For reals. I identify as an Emma Roberts-sexual. Where's my letter in the rainbow alphabet? Where's my flag? Where's my Emma Roberts pride parade? All these fucking Emma Robertsphobes.
48086
Member
I love how you try to diminish the contents of my post by comparing them to some wild conspiracy theory.
To directly answer your question, obviously no all gays do not think like that. A large and loud majority do though.
ResilientBanana
Member
Being straight as an arrow, no. I prefer the Halo Reach banner. But if that's someone elses provacative, whatever, I don't care enough to complain. It literally does not matter to me. But clearly it matters to so many others hence all of the complaining.
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Nickolaidas
Member
Oh, sure, they should. If they think it makes sense.
You could announce that you are healthy, if you think it makes sense and if you feel like it. The thing is that people expect you to be healthy, so announcing it is redundant. It is when you are sick that you feel the need to say "I don't feel so good / I think I may have caught a cold or something, etc.", in order to inform others that you're not in the norm status and something is different about you.
I think it's the same with sexuality. Now of course, I'm not saying that gay people are sick or ill or something like that, but they *are* different from what is expected to be the normal sexual orientation, and they feel the need to say it, in order to differentiate themselves from the norm status.
The pride thing is the result of years of verbal (and not so verbal) abuse from a vocal group of people who treated them as if they were freaks and subhumans. As a defense mechanism and after years of hearing crap from the majority, gay people are trying to stand up for themselves and say 'You know what? We are different from you. We do not think like you. And that's ok. We are not ashamed anymore. We will proudly display our sexuality because we're done hiding."
ruvikx
Banned
There's a huge difference between games/movies/series/books/art touching upon political issues & using them as inspiration to tell a story (whith the Metal Gear franchise & nuclear proliferation being one example of that) & the absolute propagandist "I'm shoving muh diversity down ur throat" approach by the far left which we see in many modern western & American games.
I agree with the underlying morality of the Metal Gear franchize (madman with nukes & war profiteers are "baddies"), whereas I don't give a flying fuck about some attention seeking social justice mishaps shoving their multiple genders in my face or their neo-PC religion with butch manly women behaving like dudes. Fuck that, it sucks.
Nickolaidas
Member
I call bullshit on that one, but it's not my place to disprove it, so let's just agree to disagree.
lukilladog
Member
What about a confederate flag?.
48086
Member
Drew Brees recently sent out a tweet merely encouraging kids to take their bible to school. He was then labeled as anti-gay and had to make a public apology. THAT is what is bullshit and that is an example of the large and loud majority. Believe what you want though.
DoctorEkkoUK
Member
I really feel like they did it right in this game. They made it accessable to all without feeling preachy.
Cactuarman
Banned
A lot of the time, to me anyway, it seems like the main difference is developers outwardly talking about it. Meaning: Metal Gear as a series hits you over the head with agenda, but Kojima isn't super vocal about it personally at least from what I've seen. However, Gears 5's "agenda" really didn't jump out much to me. Had I not read this IGN article I don't think I would have really thought about it.
So what's more propagandist?
I'm not really challenging you, moreso just thinking out loud.
Bathtub Fart
Banned
I haven't finished the game, but that's something that immediately felt off. Seemed like forced conflict over something that shouldn't cause conflict in the first place.
Riven326
Banned
I think that's called forced drama.
Dabaus
Banned
I doubt all of this pandering adds one sale to the game. In, fact bet it turns off a significant portion of potential customers aware of it. Between this, choosing a female lead, banning smoking (its small but shows how petty the coalition are), the atrocious box art, and it being day 1 on game pass, i think its safe to say gears 5 will struggle to reach the sales of gears 4, which was already low for the series standards. It may seem bold of me to say this but it is safe to say gears after this is a lame duck franchise. It wont be irrelevant, it will have its fans, but the days of it being a blockbuster must have "ps3 killer" like the ones of old are LONG gone. I stand by that statement.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
That is the entirety of SonicFox's schtick. He is gay. He is a furry. He is black. He is as milquetoast as they come, so he has to state immutable characteristics about himself to make him seem like someone unique, someone with personality, but ultimately fails to do so time and again.
I want games with no politics
MGS3 has no politics in it
Fucking hilarious post filled with bullshit.
Just cause Americans are being torpedoed by political bullshit doesnt mean the rest of the world does and is affected by your pathetic political system.
I love politics in my games, because without it we'd not even have a game like MGS3 OR MGS2.
No strong women? No agenda's? Do you even play the games you listed? What a bunch of fucking bullshit.
You know full well that when people say they want "no politics", they mean they don't want someone to use the game as a soapbox to spew out their personal ideologies. The only thing that is a "bunch of fucking bullshit" are your posts that remain purposefully ignorant at every turn.
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MMaRsu
Banned
What's being shoved down your throat exactly? Aren't you free to ignore any games that do not interest you? That's what I do and I find it works well.
You seem heated af over some bullshit. Watch your heart bro
let's say talking about that sonicfox dude or whatever, I know he exists because he was onstage that E3 thing. I know he's gay. I dont care. Let him be gay if that makes him happy, doesn't make my life any worse. Doesn't impact me in the slightest.
I havent played any game where I felt anyones gender was being forced on me lol, but then again I played Tomb Raider on PS1 and loved it, played MGS on ps1 and loved it, so what who cares if you play as a chick or a dude in a game I sure as hell don't, as long as the game is good.
If some character in a game is gay im like ok whatevs you do whatever you like I don't get angry about it, I don't stop to think about it hmm how does this make ME feel? Lol cmon now if you play games for escapism why is it so hard for anyone to get that there could be gay people in that world.
For all I know if Im playing a Mass Effect game I would think it weird if I never came across some crazy sex crazed alien who fucks anyone he wants. Then again games are way to prudish and so are Americans so I don't find it too weird you dont see too much of that sort of shit.
Sadly japanese gamesarent any better with their crazy pedo like girls that look underaged so those are weird af to me.
But yeah once again I play whatever game I like and I don't give a fuck if there is a lesbian, a gay dude, a fucking transdude/woman/robot is there as long as the game is good and it doesn't focus on that aspect but it's more like a character trait, I don't really care.
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Katsura
Member
Try this - go on their forum and ask for a straight pride flag and then see the reactions you'll get or just look at how people reacted to the straight pride parade
MMaRsu
Banned
I feel like calling yourself "proud to be straight" just as fucking stupid as "proud to be gay"
Why are you proud of it? You are what you are you didn't do anything to achieve it. So why be proud of it?
I saw a guy like that on Twitter the other day. Proud conservative. Proud straight white man.
I was like wtf lol are you seriously putting such bullshit in your profile lmao
alabtrosMyster
Banned
That empty statement is something anybody should be able to get behind.
Now that is next gen pandering, I haven't played the game - but it did not appear to me like the gameplay itself was affected too much by these choices, add some dating elements, wheel chair racing, etc. to both the campaign and MP experience - maybe have the story line includes more direct references, let you choose the type of gendering/body type for each character, their name and how they want to identify, what abilities they have (sight, earing, walking, etc.) and how they augment themselves to make up for it (wheel chair, mech, prosthetic) if anything they did not go far enough, having those pride flags is lazy, it's all empty talk again.
In all honesty, this would all look better if the people they pander to were not known to threaten those who do not comply - we can't know if they do it out of fear of their offices being attacked in some way, or that the employees know way too well that just being nice and accepting your employees from designated oppressed "groups", you have to affirm and re-affirm whatever it is that they require you to, not just be accepting. I wonder how it is to work in this office where you are constantly walking on eggs wondering who will report you to HR because you were surprised about one aspect of your trans/disabled/old/young or from a different ethnic background colleague's life and asked some question deemed "embarrassing". Just run as far as you can during the next break, I think I worked at a place like that for a while, nobody dared to do small talk at work.
So much this, I'm so proud of my black hair! I should hold a black hair pride parade.
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Katsura
Member
Not the point. The point is gay pride is ok, straight pride is not. That's high level hypocrisy. Either both are ok or both are not but i agree. I'd prefer if no one took pride in something they didn't control anyway
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Stefan.North
Member
It's kinda tragic what became the focus of gaming. I have no problems with homo- or bisexuals in games (in fact, for realism sake we need some), mostly ok with crossdressers as long as not over-the-top overacting.
But man, do they push these things up our noses. Both Sony and Microsoft studios are guilty of these and even Nintendo has been cowarding up to some demands.
Again, inclusions are OK here and there, but to have these things as a main focus is a sad state of todays gaming ☹
But man, do they push these things up our noses. Both Sony and Microsoft studios are guilty of these and even Nintendo has been cowarding up to some demands.
Again, inclusions are OK here and there, but to have these things as a main focus is a sad state of todays gaming ☹
bobone
Member
Amazing. Thank you sir.
I had lost hope for humanity after reading this thread topic. But now my hope has returned.
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Nickolaidas
Member
Having a pride flag in the (non-canon) multiplayer mode of Gears of War 5 is hardly the main focus.
turntablekeepsonspinning
Banned
god damn lgbt animals
Katsura
Member
So where is the straight pride flag in Gears 5?
Corporate diversity at its finest Btw. Microsoft, much like EA, embraces diversity structurally through company plans and diversity-hiring.
I wanna make it clear that I don't have a problem with the idea of hiring non-white or non-male staff but the truth is we've always done it to a degree and we used to do it based on who appeared with the right competence and generally who appeared. I interned at a interim service company and they used lots and lots of HR staff. Most of those were women. Our boss said "Statistically it's women who seek these jobs" and that is the truth of it. Now, things can be done to make things appear more welcoming but Microsoft and EA does it forcibly because it looks good on their reports and their resume.
It's company convention to avert controversy and as soon as certain groups of people started targeting big companies for their un-solidarity in hiring practices companies responded swiftly by adapting and hiring people equally between race and gender.
The truth is that at the end of the day both MS and EA see themselves as tech/IT-service companies and they try to follow the industry trends as part of that, which affects gaming conversely.
I wanna make it clear that I don't have a problem with the idea of hiring non-white or non-male staff but the truth is we've always done it to a degree and we used to do it based on who appeared with the right competence and generally who appeared. I interned at a interim service company and they used lots and lots of HR staff. Most of those were women. Our boss said "Statistically it's women who seek these jobs" and that is the truth of it. Now, things can be done to make things appear more welcoming but Microsoft and EA does it forcibly because it looks good on their reports and their resume.
It's company convention to avert controversy and as soon as certain groups of people started targeting big companies for their un-solidarity in hiring practices companies responded swiftly by adapting and hiring people equally between race and gender.
The truth is that at the end of the day both MS and EA see themselves as tech/IT-service companies and they try to follow the industry trends as part of that, which affects gaming conversely.
Stefan.North
Member
True, but statements like "Gears of War is grounded in diversity" gives one an idea of a focus.
at this point i dont think MS cares about sales. I think they would rather have people paying for xbox gamepass/live and their subscription services.
Bathtub Fart
Banned
Yeah, I think it's more or less just poor writing instead of an agenda. Gears had suffered silly plot/drama excuses for a while.
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