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Respawn Devs Insult Apex Legends Playerbase over Premium Skin Controversy

FrostyJ93

FrostyJ93

Member
www.polygon.com

Apex Legends forum furious as devs call players ‘ass-hats’ and ‘freeloaders’

Apology for Iron Crown cosmetics devolves to all out flame war
www.polygon.com www.polygon.com

So I guess Apex recently got updated with hard to get skins and the playerbase complained then they changed it to direct purchase. As seen in the link the devs got personal and called their players freeloaders and asshats. As you can guess the players were not to happy about that.
 
Whitesnake

Whitesnake

Banned
If they want “games as a service”, they better start acting like it’s a service industry. “Customer is always right” and all that. The devs should be kissing the asses of anyone willing to pay any money at all on their half-baked battle royale, especially since there’s a high saturation of those and Respawn needs all the good press they can get.

These devs are morons.
 
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S

Slings and Arrows

Banned
Making it about the players is a clever way to deflect attention away from the blatant EA money-grabbing tactics of these premium skins.

I have 70000 L (red currency) that doesn't buy shit, that I've earned playing the game and I can only unlock skins jumping through literal hoops or paying straight up cash?

Fuck you Respawn. I'll play your free game but you won't get a penny off me. Cunts.
 
Whitesnake

Whitesnake

Banned
xool said:
Anthem devs were on reddit 24/7 before launch sucking cock and look how that turned out...
Click to expand...

The vast majority blamed EA.
I think most people are aware of the shit EA is putting Bioware through, since EA has done it to so many studios before. I haven’t seen many people blame Bioware, they merely lament the sorry state of modern Bioware.

In contrast, while a lot of the problems with Apex are EA’s fault, this specific controversy is entirely the fault of Respawn.
 
Generic

Generic

Member
FrostyJ93 said:
Never get personal with your playerbase. As aggrevating as they may get they pay the bills, always have always will. Same applies to other professions like in retail.
Click to expand...
But is it ok to get personal with developers? They are human beings too. Imagine having to be completely polite when people are constantly attacking and insulting you.
 
Generic

Generic

Member
Gashtronomy said:
Making it about the players is a clever way to deflect attention away from the blatant EA money-grabbing tactics of these premium skins.

I have 70000 L (red currency) that doesn't buy shit, that I've earned playing the game and I can only unlock skins jumping through literal hoops or paying straight up cash?

Fuck you Respawn. I'll play your free game but you won't get a penny off me. Cunts.
Click to expand...
We got to the point of people complaining about having to pay "straight up cash" to buy cosmetics in a free game. Their only source of income.
 
GametimeUK

GametimeUK

Member
I'm with Respawn on this to an extent. They have handled it horribly. That "freeloader" comment wasn't an insult. It was clearly playful context. He even said he loves it that a lot of people don't pay. Outrage culture is insane and it's kept me off forums and social media for years now. Developers can't afford to make a mistake. When they give an explanation they are called liars. When they apologise people say it's not sincere.

I dislike loot boxes as much as the next guy, but if it bothers you this much then don't play / buy.
 
chilleverest

chilleverest

Member
I guess working as a Lead designer and being active on social media, you have to have a strong personality and a thick skin.

Be selective with the comments, dont reply to ad hominem remarks. The devs were utter tosh in how they reacted. You always treat your player base with respect. The pricing was a shitshow and im glad the devs/EA here are getting the deserved stick, but personal attacks should be kept at bay, and that goes both ways, both the devs and the user base.
 
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ZeroGravity

ZeroGravity

Member
The problem for me is less "Respawn insults their playerbase" and more "Respawn wants to shield themselves from all criticism." You see this shit happen over and over again when it comes to discourse of games online, where legitimate criticism and frustration is held in the same regard as actual harassment or toxicity. Developers love to conflate the two in order to deflect away from their terrible business or development practices.
 
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ZeroGravity

ZeroGravity

Member
GametimeUK said:
I'm with Respawn on this to an extent. They have handled it horribly. That "freeloader" comment wasn't an insult. It was clearly playful context. He even said he loves it that a lot of people don't pay. Outrage culture is insane and it's kept me off forums and social media for years now. Developers can't afford to make a mistake. When they give an explanation they are called liars. When they apologise people say it's not sincere.

I dislike loot boxes as much as the next guy, but if it bothers you this much then don't play / buy.
Click to expand...
The problem with issues like this is that a small minority of players keep these practices afloat. It doesn't matter if you or I don't support it, because there are people out there that drop hundreds if not thousands of dollars and that's all they really need to make up for everyone who doesn't pay or doesn't play. Other developers see how much they're making and that's how we ended up with shit like this infecting so many different games, ruining many that would have otherwise been fine without it.

It's really not as simple as "then just don't buy it" because the ripple effect of the people that inevitably do hurts everyone.
 
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Herr Edgy

Herr Edgy

Member
Relevant twitter threads:




Point being made, with which I agree with, is that many gamers are massive hypocrites when it comes to gamer & game developer relations and while that Respawn dev was clearly out of line, it's really just one guy out of many snapping at the constant toxicity.

I for one think that game devs should be much more able to present their views properly.
That 'customer is always right' bs (which is especially funny because in a f2p game most gamers don't pay) is what enables this toxicity and ill behavior in the first place.
I for one know that once I'll properly release an indie game with my name attached to it, I'll try to be polite and respectful but also won't act as if that kind of behavior was in any shape or form acceptable.
 
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jadedm17

jadedm17

Member
Gashtronomy said:
Making it about the players is a clever way to deflect attention away from the blatant EA money-grabbing tactics of these premium skins.

I have 70000 L (red currency) that doesn't buy shit, that I've earned playing the game and I can only unlock skins jumping through literal hoops or paying straight up cash?

Fuck you Respawn. I'll play your free game but you won't get a penny off me. Cunts.
Click to expand...

Not a cent from me yet

Fortnite ive spent $50 on by contrast. I love their business model.
 
S

Slings and Arrows

Banned
Tbh I'm not even mad. I just see a great game going down the shitter the same time that EA is looking for a cash cow to milk.

I think apex is the best multiplayer in ages. The fact that it is free is brilliant but for fuck sake, give people a taste of crack for free if you want them hooked. Give this first wave of skins, away for free, then up the charge slightly and so on and so on.

Boil the frog slowly
 
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ZeroGravity

ZeroGravity

Member
Herr Edgy said:
Point being made, with which I agree with, is that many gamers are massive hypocrites when it comes to gamer & game developer relations and while that Respawn dev was clearly out of line, it's really just one guy out of many snapping at the constant toxicity.

I for one think that game devs should be much more able to present their views properly.
That 'customer is always right' bs (which is especially funny because in a f2p game most gamers don't pay) is what enables this toxicity and ill behavior in the first place.
I for one know that once I'll properly release an indie game with my name attached to it, I'll try to be polite and respectful but also won't act as if that kind of behavior was in any shape or form acceptable.
Click to expand...
This is just the nature of customer service, man. Anyone who's ever worked in the industry knows what it's like. You deal with terrible customers all day and you shit-talk them off the clock, but you never do it to their face, or guess what? You're out of a job.

The only reason stuff like this feels worse is because online, either in forums or social media, you have thousands of people liking, retweeting, upvoting, whatever, these comments all at once, making it seem like it's bigger than it is. In reality, even in the case of people genuinely stepping over the line, it still represents a fraction of your total consumer base, and you have to always keep that in mind. Sure, it'd be nice if everyone could treat each other with a little more respect and tact, but it's part of being a professional that you're able to handle the people who clearly aren't giving you that. It makes it doubly worse when you write off all legitimate criticism as toxic when it's coming from people who, while sometimes over-emotional and crass with their words, aren't stepping over any lines.
 
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Petrae

Petrae

Member
Two wrongs don’t make a right, and as soon as you shit on your customers— you lose.

Customers can do without your game. You can’t do without your customers... even in a Free-to-Play situation. If that base leaves, you’re fucked. They aren’t coming back, especially during a time when there are more video games out there than any person can possibly play.

People shit-talking developers isn’t a new concept. Does it suck? Sure. Nobody enjoys getting shat upon, and the internet is (sadly) the place to be shitty without consequence. Short of straight-up death threats, you have to eat a lot of shit in a public-facing business role online. It comes with the territory. That’s why businesses employ community managers— to wade through the shit, deliver appropriate feedback, and deal respectfully with the social media public. If, as a developer, you can’t hack getting shat upon, then you need to not engage or hire someone who will.

Respawn— and, by proxy, EA— has made a critical mistake by extending a period of already terrible optics for Apex Legends through this kind of engagement. Now there’s signal amplification of the controversy... when it would’ve been so much easier to walk away from the keyboard or turn off the phone because someone finally reached a “limit”.

As someone who worked in customer service and public-facing jobs for decades, I don’t have sympathy when someone makes the wrong choice. You save your bile for another time, privately.
 
ipukespiders

ipukespiders

Member
These Devs just did what everyone else wants to do.
Many of my customers are very pleasant and kind people, and even if they start out hostile, I can usually win them over. Then there are some of them that bring entitlement to a whole new level, but I understand that biting your tongue is necessary to keep your job.
 
GrayFoxPL

GrayFoxPL

Member
FrostyJ93 said:
www.polygon.com

Apex Legends forum furious as devs call players ‘ass-hats’ and ‘freeloaders’

Apology for Iron Crown cosmetics devolves to all out flame war
www.polygon.com www.polygon.com

So I guess Apex recently got updated with hard to get skins and the playerbase complained then they changed it to direct purchase. As seen in the link the devs got personal and called their players freeloaders and asshats. As you can guess the players were not to happy about that.
Click to expand...

RFmFteE.gif
 
Herr Edgy

Herr Edgy

Member
ZeroGravity said:
This is just the nature of customer service, man. Anyone who's ever worked in the industry knows what it's like. You deal with terrible customers all day and you shit-talk them off the clock, but you never do it to their face, or guess what? You're out of a job.

The only reason stuff like this feels worse is because online, either in forums or social media, you have thousands of people liking, retweeting, upvoting, whatever, these comments all at once, making it seem like it's bigger than it is. In reality, even in the case of people genuinely stepping over the line, it still represents a fraction of your total consumer base, and you have to always keep that in mind. Sure, it'd be nice if everyone could treat each other with a little more respect and tact, but it's part of being a professional that you're able to handle the people who clearly aren't giving you that. It makes it doubly worse when you write off all legitimate criticism as toxic when it's coming from people who, while sometimes over-emotional and crass with their words, aren't stepping over any lines.
Click to expand...
I do not disagree that it's the norm. But that doesn't excuse it. And thankfully, as we are living in an everchanging world, we can try and do something about it, one step at a time. And if you won't, I will. Because it's what I can do and it's what I want to do. If that means I'll remove some more people from my game dev discord or block people on twitter, so be it. I'm just making use of my ability to handle that kinda stuff the way I see fit. And if that means I'd lose some customers, I'd be fine with it too; at least if my income was high enough to manage the potential loss. And if it wasn't, then I'd look for other means to work around that issue. Be it by changing business model, developing new products or games, setting up a patreon, going from game dev to normal software dev; it doesn't really matter to me.

As for devs brushing off legitimate criticism: part of legitimate criticism is the tone and the words you use. If a huge crybaby came at me hurling quasi-insults and how the devs are 'lazy' or 'greedy' when most of them are playing for free, they already stepped over a line. Of course, you can still try to fiddle around and squeeze the objective criticism out of the over-emotional messages, but as a dev, I wouldn't bother if it comes from a sense of entitlement.

Speak level headed to me and I'll take you seriously, act as if I exist to serve you and I'll find another way to make do without you. That's my view on things. I'm a trained professional and have qualifications, I don't need some crying gamer's affirmation to make a living. There's more to my life than what I can serve on anyone's platter. That doesn't mean I'll shit-talk you in your face. But it means I'll try to remove you as good as I can from my life.
 
Tomeru

Tomeru

Member
ZeroGravity said:
The problem for me is less "Respawn insults their playerbase" and more "Respawn wants to shield themselves from all criticism." You see this shit happen over and over again when it comes to discourse of games online, where legitimate criticism and frustration is held in the same regard as actual harassment or toxicity. Developers love to conflate the two in order to deflect away from their terrible business or development practices.
Click to expand...

When your game is free you shouldnt be held to the same practices payed games do. Like that one comment up here "I'll play your free game but you wont have any money from me. Cunts."

Lmfao.
 
EverydayBeast

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Strong opinion: games going forward will not have paid DLC, cosmetics etc. I think it gives developers and producers a bad record.
 
ZeroGravity

ZeroGravity

Member
Herr Edgy said:
I do not disagree that it's the norm. But that doesn't excuse it. And thankfully, as we are living in an everchanging world, we can try and do something about it, one step at a time. And if you won't, I will. Because it's what I can do and it's what I want to do. If that means I'll remove some more people from my game dev discord or block people on twitter, so be it. I'm just making use of my ability to handle that kinda stuff the way I see fit. And if that means I'd lose some customers, I'd be fine with it too; at least if my income was high enough to manage the potential loss. And if it wasn't, then I'd look for other means to work around that issue. Be it by changing business model, developing new products or games, setting up a patreon, going from game dev to normal software dev; it doesn't really matter to me.

As for devs brushing off legitimate criticism: part of legitimate criticism is the tone and the words you use. If a huge crybaby came at me hurling quasi-insults and how the devs are 'lazy' or 'greedy' when most of them are playing for free, they already stepped over a line. Of course, you can still try to fiddle around and squeeze the objective criticism out of the over-emotional messages, but as a dev, I wouldn't bother if it comes from a sense of entitlement.

Speak level headed to me and I'll take you seriously, act as if I exist to serve you and I'll find another way to make do without you. That's my view on things. I'm a trained professional and have qualifications, I don't need some crying gamer's affirmation to make a living. There's more to my life than what I can serve on anyone's platter. That doesn't mean I'll shit-talk you in your face. But it means I'll try to remove you as good as I can from my life.
Click to expand...
While I appreciate you wanting to make a difference, I think "don't engage in shitty business or development practices that alienate your playerbase" is a more feasible solution than "everyone should just be nicer to one another." Yeah, that doesn't guarantee you won't get assholes, but it sure as hell will cut down on it significantly. You're not going to change human nature.

Also, it should be noted, there is no such thing as being "entitled" when it comes to consumers. Consumers can be unreasonable in their requests at times, but at the end of the day, if you're not providing the product they want, for whatever reason, it's not being "entitled" for them not to buy it. They have the power in the relationship.
 
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Hudo

Hudo

Member
More like an accurate description than an insult but I get that it seems like a bad move business-wise.
 
iconmaster

iconmaster

Banned
Kudos to Polygon for taking this seriously.

Respawn screwed up big time. A real apology would be in order and might help the situation; or it might be too late. Can’t say how this will affect the game’s success but it hasn’t been lighting the world on fire lately. Bad time to fumble the community you do have.
 
blackjon24

blackjon24

Member
Lol why are these ungrateful developers insulting the people paying their bonuses?? They know why people are mad and its their job to fix it, not insult the fanbase who keeps them afloat.

I don't play warframe but its also free to play and if you look at the relationship between the fans and the developers its night and day. The do right by their audience because they know that at the end of the day they woudn''t have this job without them.
 
R

recklesscognition

Member
If you have ever worked in a customer service job you know damn well you'd be looking for a new job right now if you'd done this.

The most ridiculous thing is the dev wasn't face to face with them or on the phone live, they went out of their way to click reply and type all that up. Damn, how do you not stop yourself during that entire process as a dev and community manager especially? Lol.
 
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Plague Doctor

Plague Doctor

Member
Wait.... is this... toxic, entitled Devs? Or no, this street doesn't go two ways? Just shitting on the consumer base way? Fuck them and their overpriced cosmetics. Seriously if you defend their shitty microtransaction and their antagonism to the consumer base, you deserve this shit industry.
 
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joe_zazen

joe_zazen

Member
ipukespiders said:
These Devs just did what everyone else wants to do.
Many of my customers are very pleasant and kind people, and even if they start out hostile, I can usually win them over. Then there are some of them that bring entitlement to a whole new level, but I understand that biting your tongue is necessary to keep your job.
Click to expand...

Everyone in customer service has to know that 5% of the pop are sociopaths, 1% are psychopaths. So 94% of the time you’ll be dealing with good folk, 6% you’ll be dealing with people who don't see you as anything but an inanimate object to be used.
 
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