Support NeoGAF

[Nirolak]

This has been true for a while, but since Bloomberg posted an article about it, we were pretty much guaranteed to get a thread, and I figured it might as well start off with as much information as possible.

Quick Notes:
- Fate/Grand Order is making *a lot* of money in Japan. You'll remember this series better for Fate/Stay Night or "That thing with Saber in it."
- Pokemon Go makes more money worldwide. I have two charts illustrating this at the bottom. However, the short version is that worldwide (in October) Pokemon Go is was the #3 top grossing mobile game while Fate/Grand Order was #9, but in Japan, Fate/Grand Order was #2 while Pokemon Go was #5.
- This is published by Sony's Aniplex division, not Sony Interactive Entertainment, who has now set up their own mobile game arm through ForwardWorks.
- Sony's Aniplex division isn't currently working with ForwardWorks, though noted they're considering it in the future.
- Sony's Aniplex is launching another mobile game based on Magicka Madoka soon, though you probably shouldn't bank on it being as big as Fate/Grand Order.
- I feel it's worth pointing out that Fate is one of quite a few Japanese series that, despite being very niche on dedicated devices, saw astronomical growth on mobile. IDOLMASTER is another, which went from being a ~200K selling series at its best to being a consistent $100+ million a year hit (and actually possibly a fair deal above that) on mobile with 10+ million downloads in its first three months.

But anyway, onto the article: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...as-a-hit-that-s-as-big-as-pokemon-go-in-japan

First up, the most Technically Correct™ description of the Fate series possible:

Nintendo Co. might have scored a hit with the explosive debut of Pokemon Go this year. On its home turf, however, Sony Corp. has quietly dispatched its rival with a popular mobile game called Fate/Grand Order.

The game, based on an anime TV series called Fate, allows players to travel back in time and team up with historical figures like Julius Caesar, Leonardo da Vinci and Joan of Arc to rescue humanity from looming disaster. While the basic version is free to play, people can pay for tokens that make it easier to add characters and speed up gameplay.

And the numbers (there's way more about developing the game and other related elements at the link):

Fate/Grand Order has been at or near the top of Japan's app revenue rankings all year and has been downloaded more than 7 million times since its July 2015 debut. It has made more money than Pokemon Go among Android users 104 out of 133 days this year, and 51 days on iOS devices, in the same period, according to researcher App Annie.

"In terms of the amount of money people are spending, it's up there above Pokemon Go," said Damian Thong, an analyst at Macquarie Group Ltd. in Tokyo. "The intensity and engagement level for Fate/Grand Order is a lot higher."

When Sony reported its latest quarterly figures last month, Sony Chief Financial Officer Kenichiro Yoshida singled out the game at a press conference, saying "it continues to positively" contribute to the music division, where it's based. Fate/Grand Order helped to lift Sony Music's operating profit by 23 percent to 16.5 billion yen. Revenue rose 8 percent to 150 billion yen. The game's success is a sign of how important Sony's gaming and entertainment businesses are for Chief Executive Officer Kazuo Hirai, as the company struggles with razor-thin margins and competition in televisions, cameras and other hardware.

Aniplex partnered with game developer DELiGHTWORKS Inc. and creative studio Type-Moon to produce Fate/Grand Order. Iwakami said he received little push-back from Sony, even though the game was made independently from the PlayStation division. About 200 people were involved in its production, he said.

The game has been released in China, where Iwakami said it's doing well, and it may be rolled out in other Asian countries. Expansion in the U.S., Europe and other Western markets is also possible, he said.

Sony, which is stepping up its efforts in mobile games, launched a new studio in March called ForwardWorks. Aniplex isn't collaborating with the new unit, Iwakami said, though that might change in the future.

October Charts for Japan and Worldwide: https://www.appannie.com/indexes/all-stores/rank/overall/?month=2016-10-01&country=WW

 

[kagamin]

Starlight Stage has suddenly been doing worse since I stopped playing as actively as I used to, damn.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Type Moon and Sony are bringing in the big bucks.

Nasu and Takeuchi-san are probably taking a big jump in a pool of yen about now

 

[John Kowalski]

Does it have saber lion?

 

[Inuhanyou]

Does it have saber lion?

F/GO has generally more Arturia based characters than anything else in existence(not even kidding), not even counting alternate Saber lookalikes and expys.

Don't know if they have S/Lion yet though. They do have Summer Arturia though, who is just as cute.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Soon Naughty Dog will be making mobile games.

 

[demosthenes]

Boggles my mind, but give the people what they want I suppose.

 

[FZZ]

Damn MonsterStrike is still dominating JP

Wait for Gen 2 btw brehs

 

[Nirolak]

Soon Naughty Dog will be making mobile games.

The Western mobile market is relatively impenetrable and stagnant, but Japan (and Asia in general) is very vibrant and competitive, which is why ForwardWorks is basically going all in over there.

Japan Studio staff are being used for some of the projects, though they're also doing a lot of contracting with mobile studios.

 

[Elios83]

Weren't they supposed to announce mobile games for Japan as soon as......this week??

 

[Toni]

Soon Naughty Dog will be making mobile games.

If it gets to that point, they'll go MMO lite like Destiny. Its the console industry equivalent of having a consistent flow cash coming in.

 

[Dougieflesh]

So much Saber

 

[Nirolak]

Weren't they supposed to announce mobile games for Japan as soon as......this week??

Yes, Sony Interactive Entertainment will be unveiling their games on December 7th.

Sony is something of an unwieldy conglomerate, so this game is published by Sony Music's Aniplex division and has no connection to the people who handle PlayStation (a division which has now set up its own serious mobile efforts).

 

[Space Medafighter X]

Awesome news, now if only it came over..

 

[Inuhanyou]

I don't think this kind of success is remotely possible with many other properties, or a new IP.

Its specifically because Fate and Type Moon in general is such a cultural phenomenon in Japan that this took off the way it did.

I don't think just anyone should be setting up mobile studios expecting to make millions

 

[Nirolak]

I don't think this kind of success is remotely possible with many other properties, or a new IP.

Its specifically because Fate and Type Moon in general is such a cultural phenomenon in Japan that this took off the way it did.

To be fair, five of the top 10 Japanese mobile games in October are original IP created for mobile, and IDOLMASTER managed to rank above it on occasion (and is still in the top 10).

PowaPro baseball also does really well as far as more niche dedicated franchises go, with Yu-Gi-Oh currently making a strong comeback.

I don't think just anyone should be setting up mobile studios expecting to make millions

While this is true, we have actually seen a lot more Japanese companies manage success in their domestic mobile market than we've seen differing companies manage success in the Western market.

"Millions" is also quite a bit easier than "hundreds of millions".

 

[bjork]

What about some of the other stuff that's been up there for awhile? Surely Fate isn't the only game beating it by now.

Also I wonder if idolmaster counts per one title or overall across the handful that are all out now.

 

[Zenaku]

How is Chain Chronicle doing? I feel it's probably the most player-friendly mobile game I play, in terms of free gems/crystals, rare character gacha rate, etc. I wish F/GO and Idolmaster had 3.5/7% rates for characters, although I can't outright complain without sounding hypocritical; wasted £200 on Idolmaster last week, stil didn't get the character I wanted.

 

[RockmanBN]

Damn MonsterStrike is still dominating JP

Wait for Gen 2 btw brehs

Is Gen 2 going to drastically change the gameplay. Adding more Pokemon won't make the game more fun. It's still mindless grinding. Catching the same 'mons multiple times where they get dumped in the 'mon trash in exchange for candy.

Though people eat the game up so I can see profits boosting for a short time after Gen 2's release.

 

[sir_bumble_bee]

I guess this is why Type-Moon is in no rush to finish that Tsukihime Remake

 

[galvenize]

The only mobile game that would make me drop the one I've been playing for 3 years and dropped a considerable amount of money in if it was announced for the west.

I guess this is why Type-Moon is in no rush to finish that Tsukihime Remake

Ugh thanks for the reminder. That remake may as well be the TLG/FFXV of VNs.

 

[Ridley327]

It amazes me that an H-game would wind up this big in the long run. Granted, I know that was never the appeal of the series in the first place, but still.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Those japapanese are dominated by ruthless gacha mechanics lol - its a wonder that Pokemon isnt even up there considering how casual the experience and IAP are.

 

[Elios83]

Yes, Sony Interactive Entertainment will be unveiling their games on December 7th.

Sony is something of an unwieldy conglomerate, so this game is published by Sony Music's Aniplex division and has no connection to the people who handle PlayStation (a division which has now set up its own serious mobile efforts).

Ah ok thanks, indeed I didn't even know about the existence of this particular game.
About the SIE's published games to be announced soon I think that Minna no Golf should be in pole position.

 

[Nirolak]

What about some of the other stuff that's been up there for awhile? Surely Fate isn't the only game beating it by now.

Also I wonder if idolmaster counts per one title or overall across the handful that are all out now.

Monster Strike, Puzzle & Dragons, and Disney Tsum Tsum also outgrossed it this month.

For IDOLMASTER, it's just Starlight Stage. There are some images at the bottom of the OP that show the full list.

How is Chain Chronicle doing? I feel it's probably the most player-friendly mobile game I play, in terms of free gems/crystals, rare character gacha rate, etc. I wish F/GO and Idolmaster had 3.5/7% rates for characters, although I can't outright complain without sounding hypocritical; wasted £200 on Idolmaster last week, stil didn't get the character I wanted.

The audience moved over pretty heavily to Hortensia Saga, which is Sega's current flagship mobile game.

 

[CSX]

I guess this is why Type-Moon is in no rush to finish that Tsukihime Remake

Was about to say something similar lol. Why make new products when the Fate licensing is bringing in all the dough

 

[FZZ]

Is Gen 2 going to drastically change the gameplay. Adding more Pokemon won't make the game more fun. It's still mindless grinding. Catching the same 'mons multiple times where they get dumped in the 'mon trash in exchange for candy.

Though people eat the game up so I can see profits boosting for a short time after Gen 2's release.

Breeding, trading, and PvP are all things that have yet to be implemented but are planned

game is super bare bones right now and generating the profit it is

 

[Wollan]

I found a video of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5uz4xFUf_I
Anime intro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmYuAYmxgcA
An awful trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miCa88QZklQ

 

[Maxinas]

Well yeah, a loli-body 500 year old witch in a skimpy bikini ultra special edition card and you got the whales taking out loans to get their hands on one.

 

[shira]

I found a video of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5uz4xFUf_I
Anime intro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmYuAYmxgcA
An awful trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miCa88QZklQ

Waifus. Quel surpise

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Crazy numbers. What's the latest Worldwide gross of Pokemon Go sitting at ?

The Western mobile market is relatively impenetrable and stagnant, but Japan (and Asia in general) is very vibrant and competitive, which is why ForwardWorks is basically going all in over there.

Japan Studio staff are being used for some of the projects, though they're also doing a lot of contracting with mobile studios.

How do you think Super Mario Run will do in the West ? I think Nintendo are being very brave (or silly depending on how it's sales turn out) to charge $10 for a mobile game in a market traditionally filled with free or very cheap games.

Part of me hopes it doesn't do very well because if they sell say 50 million copies of it at $10 a pop they may not make dedicated console hardware much longer .

 

[RockmanBN]

Breeding, trading, and PvP are all things that have yet to be implemented but are planned

game is super bare bones right now and generating the profit it is

Im only stating that the game needs more types of gameplay than what we have now. Adding a generation of Pokemon won't help longterm.

 

[Nirolak]

Crazy numbers. What's the latest Worldwide gross of Pokemon Go sitting at ?



How do you think Super Mario Run will do in the West ? I think Nintendo are being very brave (or silly depending on how it's sales turn out) to charge $10 for a mobile game in a market traditionally filled with free or very cheap games.

Part of me hopes it doesn't do very well because if they sell say 50 million copies of it at $10 a pop they may not make dedicated console hardware much longer .

I think Minecraft managed to prove out that price point with a big enough name.

Minecraft is $6.99, and it had moved over 30 million copies as of almost two years ago.

There are very, very few things that could ever sell well with that kind of price tag on mobile, but I think this is one of the exceptions that could.

 

[Zafir]

I'm still amazed how the Japanese market can sustain so many gacha games.

I guess they're cheap to make.

 

[napata]

Shadowverse is the loli anime Hearthstone clone that recently launched on steam, right? I didn't realize it was that popular in Japan.

I guess in hindsight it isn't all that surprising that Hearthstone + half naked anime girls would be successful in Japan. That said I actually heard good things about the game.

 

[kayos90]

Considering the game has no endgame or Any multiplayer this is great numbers.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

does this mean sony will abandon console and go all in on mobile

 

[Somnid]

This doesn't seem especially notable. Several big Japanese games make a lot more money, precisely because they are specifically engineered to exploit a very particular market and habits (which I'll refrain from harsh labeling but we all have a general idea of how this works) and as a result take very similar forms. In fact the reason we don't talk about them much is that they aren't especially notable outside of that Japanese microcosm.

 

[Rymuth]

Wait, Sony picked this up? Huh, color me surprised. I really thought it was published under Bamco (not sure why, so please don't make fun of me!) - nice get.

I read about this in the wiki when I was parsing it after watching F/Z. Franchise took the Master/Servant dynamic and ran with it. Sheer genius.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

I think Minecraft managed to prove out that price point with a big enough name.

Minecraft is $6.99, and it had moved over 30 million copies as of almost two years ago.

There are very, very few things that could ever sell well with that kind of price tag on mobile, but I think this is one of the exceptions that could.

Hmm, never thought of Minecraft, good point. I'm sure I've read that Final Fantasy on mobile does well for Square aswell ?

The Super Mario Run sales are going to be very interesting because I think it might appeal to an even bigger demographic than Minecraft on mobile due to a lot of older, lapsed gamers having enjoyed the series on NES and SNES years ago. A shame it's launch sales will be limited by it's iOS exclusivity, at least at launch. Is there any word on when it might come to Android ?

 

[Ferr986]

Published by Sony? Wasn't this a series of hentai games?

 

[Kayant]

does this mean sony will abandon console and go all in on mobile

Yes the real age of Sony is about to begin.

Published by Sony? Wasn't this a series of hentai games?

Wutface.gif

 

[Ala Alba]

Published by Sony? Wasn't this a series of hentai games?

Aniplex published the latest anime adaptations as well as this game.

Aniplex is, apparently, owned by Sony.

 

[Nirolak]

Published by Sony? Wasn't this a series of hentai games?

You are thinking of the correct series, yes.

Obviously the mobile game doesn't have hentai in it though.

Hmm, never thought of Minecraft, good point. I'm sure I've read that Final Fantasy on mobile does well for Square aswell ?

The Super Mario Run sales are going to be very interesting because I think it might appeal to an even bigger demographic than Minecraft on mobile due to a lot of older, lapsed gamers having enjoyed the series on NES and SNES years ago. A shame it's launch sales will be limited by it's iOS exclusivity, at least at launch. Is there any word on when it might come to Android ?

The paid Final Fantasy games do well for paid titles, but that's a pretty small number overall.

A few of the free 2 play Final Fantasy games are major earners though.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Published by Sony? Wasn't this a series of hentai games?

Type Moon has not been a doujinsoft company for nigh on a decade now. And comparing Fate and Tsukihime to 'hentai games' is like comparing a rated R movie with sex scenes to porn.

 

[Ferr986]

You are thinking of the correct series, yes.

Obviously the mobile game doesn't have hentai in it though.

Yeah I understand. Just surprised that a hentai game ends up with their own vanilla anime series and a big enough franchise to get published by Sony and be this profitable.

Like, that many people played and liked the original game?

 

[Nozomi]

Published by Sony? Wasn't this a series of hentai games?

Out of the ~60-70h read maybe 1h are sex scenes and the newer versions didnt even have them anymore and they got replaced with dolphins.

 

[Ala Alba]

Yeah I understand. Just surprised that a hentai game ends up with their own vanilla anime series and a big enough franchise to get published by Sony and be this profitable.

Like, that many people played and liked the original game?

Well, it has been re-released at least three times with the porn removed.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

You are thinking of the correct series, yes.

Obviously the mobile game doesn't have hentai in it though.

what a scam

Out of the ~60-70h read maybe 1h are sex scenes and the newer versions didnt even have them anymore and they got replaced with dolphins.

terrorist law?

 

[Inuhanyou]

Yeah I understand. Just surprised that a hentai game ends up with their own vanilla anime series and a big enough franchise to get published by Sony and be this profitable.

Like, that many people played and liked the original game?

Dude...you keep calling it a hentai game...its not a hentai game.

Its a series of visual novels with a huge and complex story about eating huge amounts of Japanese foods around a kitchen table for 70 hours.