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[Coffee Dog]

You'd think students at Dartmouth would be smart enough to know that screaming in the library and flipping off people would make their group look like the aggressors the media is trying to portray them as.

So many bad decisions going on at colleges. You're only making the organization look bad by doing things like this. You will not achieve any progress looking like the aggressor.

The point of protests, demonstrations, and disruptions, are to make dealing with them so fucking unbearable that nobody has a choice but to enact change. It doesn't matter how much the movement is demonized by the media and by the elite, because any organization that moves to empower nonwhite men will be demonized.

 

[PBY]

The point of protests, demonstrations, and disruptions, are to make dealing with them so fucking unbearable that nobody has a choice but to enact change. It doesn't matter how much the movement is demonized, because any organization that moves to empower nonwhite men will be demonized.

I agree, to a point.

What is described in the article is absurd and crosses the line, to me.

What is in the video seems fairly harmless.

 

[kirblar]

If you're not ok with anti-abortion protesters swarming a woman and screaming in her face as she tries to enter a clinic, you shouldn't be ok with those sorts of tactics coming from the other side of the political axis. This has nothing to do with being a whether or not you actually support X cause - it has everything to do with not being a jackass using a movement as an excuse to be an asshole to people and ostentatiously display how pure and virtuous you are in comparison to them.

 

[braves01]

Deeply troubling if true. Hopefully the broader BLM leadership comes out against these kinds of guerrilla protests. You don't need to leave daily life completely unaffected, since you are trying to get attention after all, but terrorizing people studying or perhaps writing papers against police violence is going too far, imo.

 

[Apt101]

White people that actually support BLM will understand that the inconvenience is necessary.

The level of inconvenience is important, and that should weigh against the injustices being protested. How a movement communicates their grievances matters as well.

It's easy to post that "diet racism" gif in response to anyone who attempts to discuss this matter in a way that isn't in full agreement with you and/or BLM - shut them out, accuse them of racism, etc, pretty much be that caricature of "liberal" being lampooned on South Park and elsewhere right now. But context and circumstance does matter. MLK/the civil rights movement of the 60's shut down roads, towns, and public transit and gathered millions because the injustices were astronomically higher than they are now. Many of the BLM protestors have gone beyond the cause of highlighting the problems with institutional racism in law enforcement into questionable territory. I mean, complaining about privilege and such when they're in college in the richest country on earth, name calling and deriding and bullying? Interrupting rallies for the most progressive presidential candidate running? They are becoming as incoherent as Occupy became.

I support BLM at its core; I recognize that there is a serious issue with institutional racism within the justice system, law enforcement, and the prison system. I can accept all of that and at the same time point out that the way these protestors are going about their business is wrong headed and hurting their own cause. It's a complex issue.

They are making actual racists sound reasonable to people who are in the middle or who haven't been paying attention until now.

 

[PBY]

If you're not ok with anti-abortion protesters swarming a woman and screaming in her face as she tries to enter a clinic, you shouldn't be ok with those sorts of tactics coming from the other side of the political axis. This has nothing to do with being a whether or not you actually support X cause - it has everything to do with not being a jackass using a movement as an excuse to be an asshole to people and ostentatiously display how pure and virtuous you are in comparison to them.

The level of injustice/outward harms isn't the same there though.

I'd be okay with aborted fetuses swarming an abortion clinic tho

 

[marrec]

For what it's worth as a somewhat recent Dartmouth alum, I can confirm that the Review's account of what transpired has been substantively confirmed by my (generally progressive) friends still at the college. Murmurs about a slight white woman being pushed up against a wall and berated to the point of tears by protestors have the student body up in arms right now in particular.

I won't throw my two cents in the ring on how I feel about the situation given how loaded a conversation about race relations at Dartmouth would inevitably become, but I just wanted to let the thread know that the claims made by the article are at the very least directionally correct.

Extremely disappointing. The students responsible for the physical violence and verbal harassment should be mortified by their actions.

 

[Alcoremortis]

While it's kinda rude to run shouting through a library while people are trying to study, really how long was this going on? Ten... fifteen minutes? I imagine it couldn't have been long before campus security invited them to leave. That's barely a blip in one's study time. At Berkeley, we had people running naked through the library during finals for longer than that and that was *way* more of a distraction.

Though, the physical assaults are a totally different matter if that's true. Shouting is all well and good but a line has been crossed when someone is singled out and pushed around.

 

[JDSN]

There were some really cute girls in that rally.

What is Mac doing there?

"The Gang Pisses Off Progressives"

 

[codhand]

I saw this on Breitbart yesterday

great, now youve done it.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I'm not saying everyone associated with BLM needs to be a world class public speaker, but shouldn't there be at least one or two people who will make a real impact with their words?

Something that will be in History Books 50 years from now is what I want.

The only thing this shows is your complete ignorance on the BLM movement and some of it's more noted activists.

If you expect the goddamned "I Have A Dream" speech (or some of the many multitudes of other things that MLK has said that have been whitewashed out of history in favor of it) then you've set your expectations too high. Maybe you should do some more research.

 

[uncelestial]

http://thetab.com/us/dartmouth/2015...-last-nights-protest-until-it-turned-ugly-978

I found an account from a student who claims to have been there. I've never heard of "The Tab" but they don't seem like a conservative mouthpiece so.. we'll see. I'm still waiting for more info, nowadays with social media I'm sure it'll all come out.

Yeesh. Okay that's pretty bad. Still would feel more ready to accept these accounts if there were more evidence/video/social media mentions.

For what it's worth as a somewhat recent Dartmouth alum, I can confirm that the Review's account of what transpired has been substantively confirmed by my (generally progressive) friends still at the college. Murmurs about a slight white woman being pushed up against a wall and berated to the point of tears by protestors have the student body up in arms right now in particular.

I won't throw my two cents in the ring on how I feel about the situation given how loaded a conversation about race relations at Dartmouth would inevitably become, but I just wanted to let the thread know that the claims made by the article are at the very least directionally correct.

Sigh... Damnit.

 

[kirblar]

The level of injustice/outward harms isn't the same there though.

I'd be okay with aborted fetuses swarming an abortion clinic tho

How does that make an iota of difference when it comes to treating someone like a human being and not a verbal punching bag? This is like being ok with Doxxing as long as it's the "enemy" being Doxxed.

 

[MrHoot]

The level of injustice/outward harms isn't the same there though.

I'd be okay with aborted fetuses swarming an abortion clinic tho

Memories of Drakengard ending comes to mind

Spoiler

 

[Whom_Gods_Annoy]

http://thetab.com/us/dartmouth/2015...-last-nights-protest-until-it-turned-ugly-978

I found an account from a student who claims to have been there. I've never heard of "The Tab" but they don't seem like a conservative mouthpiece so.. we'll see. I'm still waiting for more info, nowadays with social media I'm sure it'll all come out.

The student who was being yelled at questioned the movement’s aggressive tactics, and went on to identify himself as a being a part of the Latino community. He was subsequently attacked by one of the protestors who shouted “I’ve never seen you at the LALACS house,” followed by a thunderous applause from the protestors.
...
After making a girl cry, a protestor screamed “Fuck your white tears.”

Thats real bad.

 

[FartOfWar]

http://thetab.com/us/dartmouth/2015...-last-nights-protest-until-it-turned-ugly-978

I found an account from a student who claims to have been there. I've never heard of "The Tab" but they don't seem like a conservative mouthpiece so.. we'll see. I'm still waiting for more info, nowadays with social media I'm sure it'll all come out.

Careful. Awaiting additional information might make you a racist.

 

[norm9]

For what it's worth as a somewhat recent Dartmouth alum, I can confirm that the Review's account of what transpired has been substantively confirmed by my (generally progressive) friends still at the college. Murmurs about a slight white woman being pushed up against a wall and berated to the point of tears by protestors have the student body up in arms right now in particular.

I won't throw my two cents in the ring on how I feel about the situation given how loaded a conversation about race relations at Dartmouth would inevitably become, but I just wanted to let the thread know that the claims made by the article are at the very least directionally correct.

BLM should probably address and distance themselves from the idiots.

 

[ironcreed]

"Don't disrupt my privilege or inconvenience me while you are literally fighting being MURDERED by law enforcement and widespread institutional racism."

My privilege? I got news for you, my life has been anything but. I simply don't think that blocking innocent people from going about their daily lives, going to work, picking up their kids, etc is going to win them over to your cause. Neither is barging in on them and calling them names in public places. Beyond that... ALL lives matter. But I guess that makes me a 'racist lite' for saying so. Whatever, man. I hope those tactics work for you.

 

[richiek]

Beyond that... ALL lives matter. But I guess that makes me a 'racist lite' for saying so. Whatever, man. I hope those tactics work for you.

 

[akira28]

ALL lives matter. But I guess that makes me a 'racist lite' for saying so. Whatever, man. I hope those tactics work for you.

feels good don't it? dat relief.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

My privilege? I got news for you, my life has been anything but. I simply don't think that blocking innocent people from going about their daily lives, going to work, picking up their kids, etc is going to win them over to your cause. Neither is barging in on them and calling them names in public places. Beyond that... ALL lives matter. But I guess that makes me a 'racist lite' for saying so. Whatever, man. I hope those tactics work for you.

Bingo!

I'll need a new card as soon as possible.

 

[Seesaw15]

My privilege? I got news for you, my life has been anything but. I simply don't think that blocking innocent people from going about their daily lives, going to work, picking up their kids, etc is going to win them over to your cause. Neither is barging in on them and calling them names in public places. Beyond that... ALL lives matter. But I guess that makes me a 'racist lite' for saying so. Whatever, man. I hope those tactics work for you.

 

[His Majesty]

The point of protests, demonstrations, and disruptions, are to make dealing with them so fucking unbearable that nobody has a choice but to enact change. It doesn't matter how much the movement is demonized by the media and by the elite, because any organization that moves to empower nonwhite men will be demonized.

I'm not sure if such confrontational tactics are effective. Demanding people care about your issues and calling them out if they don't is only going to piss them off. Harassing students in the library or tweets like this aren't helping anyone nor getting your point across.

 

[MiszMasz]

Yeesh. Okay that's pretty bad. Still would feel more ready to accept these accounts if there were more evidence/video/social media mentions.

The same guy was included in this:
http://thedartmouth.com/2015/11/17/college-sees-no-official-reports-of-violence-at-protest-despite-rumors/

The protest happened, and it would appear there was verbal abuse. Depending on the report and what you consider physical, claims about any physical abuse are still iffy.

 

[Coffee Dog]

My privilege? I got news for you, my life has been anything but. I simply don't think that blocking innocent people from going about their daily lives, going to work, picking up their kids, etc is going to win them over to your cause. Neither is barging in on them and calling them names in public places. Beyond that... ALL lives matter. But I guess that makes me a 'racist lite' for saying so. Whatever, man. I hope those tactics work for you.

While this is a very dense block of text, i'm just going to respond to the bolded by saying that you've missed the point rather dramatically.

Disruptions are not about "winning people over". They are about making enough noise and intruding into enough people's lives that they can't be ignored anymore, whether you agree with them or not. It creates a situation where they must be addressed.

 

[Vicetrailia]

http://thetab.com/us/dartmouth/2015...-last-nights-protest-until-it-turned-ugly-978

I found an account from a student who claims to have been there. I've never heard of "The Tab" but they don't seem like a conservative mouthpiece so.. we'll see. I'm still waiting for more info, nowadays with social media I'm sure it'll all come out.

edit:

Very disappointing if true.

 

[n00bsauce87]

Thats real bad.

You bolded the wrong part. You should have quoted the part where she said that she was apart of the latino community, as if that mattered. There were white people involved with this event, but would she said that because they are white, their capacity to empathize or willingness to be involved with BLM through and through should be diminished because she's a latino speaking towards them?

 

[BruceCLea]

What is Mac doing there?

"The Gang Pisses Off Progressives"

Actually Mac is trying to get laid at an abortion rally. I spotted some really cute girls in the video so I probably would've done the same


🙃 jk

 

[PezDispenser]

Should we have a moment of silence for all of the poor white people whose educations were destroyed by the radical race baiting thugs of #BLM?

Why would we have a moment of silence when those students could take some REAL action by storming into a maternity clinic, flipping everyone off and shouting at the top of their lungs "FINALS STUDYING MATTERS!!!" over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and

 

[AnathemicOne]

For what it's worth as a somewhat recent Dartmouth alum, I can confirm that the Review's account of what transpired has been substantively confirmed by my (generally progressive) friends still at the college. Murmurs about a slight white woman being pushed up against a wall and berated to the point of tears by protestors have the student body up in arms right now in particular.

I won't throw my two cents in the ring on how I feel about the situation given how loaded a conversation about race relations at Dartmouth would inevitably become, but I just wanted to let the thread know that the claims made by the article are at the very least directionally correct.

If true this dumbass protest turned into a targeted assault by dumbasses.

 

[PBY]

How does that make an iota of difference when it comes to treating someone like a human being and not a verbal punching bag? This is like being ok with Doxxing as long as it's the "enemy" being Doxxed.

I specifically used the fetus example to show that I draw a difference not in who the "enemy" is, but who the protester is, and the history of injustice the protester faces.

 

[jabuseika]

People actually defend stuff like this?

This isn't discourse, this isn't activism, this is "fuck you give me what I want!".

I don't think that approach will work at all, but good luck to them.

Interfering in the lives of others works.

As some one who has done actual activism, no it doesn't work.

When I approach some one in a friendly manner, I've had way more success on getting support, than if I just stand somewhere with a sign yelling.

One of the things we did one time, we went into a library and gave everyone energy drinks for free on finals week, and invited them to come to one of our talks. People actually showed up.

How many of the people in the video are going to join this movement? Zero.

 

[kirblar]

I specifically used the fetus example to show that I draw a difference not in who the "enemy" is, but who the protester is, and the history of injustice the protester faces.

And again, you're excusing deplorable tactics for one side because you agree with their position.

 

[JDSN]

Actually Mac is trying to get laid at an abortion rally. I spotted some really cute girls in the video so I probably would've done the same


🙃 jk

I know you arent joking.

Spoiler

Cos I would have done the same.

 

[Tabris]

The issue with movements like BLM and Occupy Wall Street, the core statement is totally on point but without effective leadership of the movement - it loses itself in lost focus to that core statement with too many other smaller movements being tacked on.

You need a strong leader(ship) for these kind of movements. It's why things like the Syrian rebellion also failed, Arab Spring failed (well up to debate), etc.

I expect the BLM movement to unfortunately petter out like the Occupy Wall Street movement.

 

[PBY]

And again, you're excusing deplorable tactics for one side because you agree with their position.

? You keep missing the point. Also I don't think what's in teh video is deplorable.

I will say if it is true, like someone noted in this thread - thats WAY past my line, and thats super shitty.

 

[ironcreed]

While this is a very dense block of text, i'm just going to respond to the bolded by saying that you've missed the point rather dramatically.

Disruptions are not about "winning people over". They are about making enough noise and intruding into enough people's lives that they can't be ignored anymore, whether you agree with them or not. It creates a situation where they must be addressed.

I know exactly what the intention is and it's noble at the core. But others have rights and lives as well and they are not just going to put them on hold because there are groups blocking the roads and barging in on them in public places. In fact, you stand a bigger chance of turning more people off. Especially if it goes down like what is being reported here. Anyway, good luck.

 

[Dai101]

Careful. Awaiting additional information might make you a racist.

Please tell us how you REALLY feel.

BINGO!

 

[Infinite]

I definitely don't agree with antagonizing people with your protests but had they protested this exact same location without doing so I would have been ok with it.

 

[Captin Quacker]

http://thetab.com/us/dartmouth/2015...-last-nights-protest-until-it-turned-ugly-978

I found an account from a student who claims to have been there. I've never heard of "The Tab" but they don't seem like a conservative mouthpiece so.. we'll see. I'm still waiting for more info, nowadays with social media I'm sure it'll all come out.

edit:

Now I'm surprised major news outlets haven't picked this up by now

They should be ashamed of themselves

 

[Chie Satonaka]

People actually defend stuff like this?

This isn't discourse, this isn't activism, this is "fuck you give me what I want!".

I don't think that approach will work at all, but good luck to them.

As some one who has done actual activism, no it doesn't work.

When I approach some one in a friendly manner, I've had way more success on getting support, than if I just stand somewhere with a sign yelling.

One of the things we did one time, we went into a library and gave everyone energy drinks for free on finals week, and invited them to come to one of our talks. People actually showed up.

How many of the people in the video are going to join this movement? Zero.

Mmmm.

So black folks haven't been doing that for hundreds of years, right?

The most social change in this country involving black folks came at the civil rights movement, and that happened due to civil disobedience and protests. This incident, while problematic, isn't indicative of the movement as a whole, which is filled with people doing both what you suggest and people who are going the route of civil disobedience.

But by all means, we should totally keep having a conversation on the "right way" for black people to do things, even though historically nothing black people have done has actually worked or solved the problem.

 

[PBY]

Mmmm.

So black folks haven't been doing that for hundreds of years, right?

The most social change in this country involving black folks came at the civil rights movement, and that happened due to civil disobedience and protests. This incident, while problematic, isn't indicative of the movement as a whole, which is filled with people doing both what you suggest and people who are going the route of civil disobedience.

But by all means, we should totally keep having a conversation on the "right way" for black people to do things, even though historically nothing black people have done has actually worked or solved the problem.

I agree with your sentiment, but there is a line.

 

[atr0cious]

People actually defend stuff like this?

This isn't discourse, this isn't activism, this is "fuck you give me what I want!".

I don't think that approach will work at all, but good luck to them.

They want to be treated as equal, so sorry that isn't something you seem to be worried about. Lol energy drinks, if only BLM had thought of that. Too bad we don't have national organization working on this around the clock, oh wait they just get labeled as biased institutions.

 

[kirblar]

? You keep missing the point. Also I don't think what's in teh video is deplorable.

I will say if it is true, like someone noted in this thread - thats WAY past my line, and thats super shitty.

I'm talking about the allegations that appear to be getting corroborated. I also view the internal library protest as over the line as well - to me that's like protesting inside a residence/church/hospital/etc. (The rest of the event up until that point sounds like it was fantastic.)

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

Now I'm surprised major news outlets haven't picked this up by now

They should be ashamed of themselves

Hopefully they're in the middle of doing their due diligence.

 

[GnawtyDog]

While this is a very dense block of text, i'm just going to respond to the bolded by saying that you've missed the point rather dramatically.

Disruptions are not about "winning people over". They are about making enough noise and intruding into enough people's lives that they can't be ignored anymore, whether you agree with them or not. It creates a situation where they must be addressed.

I can see the following being talked about:

Beefing up security to reign in impromptu crashes. Where illegal? Press charges...
Conservative media smearing like hell with on-the-fly sources.
Liberal media keeping their mouth shut cause there is no sensible spin where an impromptu crash at a library while students study can be spun into a positive story about a quest for equal rights.

If you get such reaction to this story on a predominately liberal forum like GAF, what do you think the response is at the general public level where moderates are predominant and are not nearly as informed nor care about the flaws of making a quick judgement on such movement. Got news to tell you....

Besides getting some Dem candidates to pander to their cause I can't see what overarching goal they'll achieve with these improptu protests. I mean it's not a matter of telling me their goals, I know them. There is just no way they'll achieve it with their current modus operandi.

Seems to me every time one of the crashes happen there is just as much backlash as there might be "understanding". And perhaps I am being generous on the split. I wish to believe on at least 50/50. Emphasis on wish.

 

[excelsiorlef]

If you're not ok with anti-abortion protesters swarming a woman and screaming in her face as she tries to enter a clinic, you shouldn't be ok with those sorts of tactics coming from the other side of the political axis. This has nothing to do with being a whether or not you actually support X cause - it has everything to do with not being a jackass using a movement as an excuse to be an asshole to people and ostentatiously display how pure and virtuous you are in comparison to them.

You can't see even a fundamental difference between those two things?

 

[TwEE-N-Toast]

http://thetab.com/us/dartmouth/2015...-last-nights-protest-until-it-turned-ugly-978

I found an account from a student who claims to have been there. I've never heard of "The Tab" but they don't seem like a conservative mouthpiece so.. we'll see. I'm still waiting for more info, nowadays with social media I'm sure it'll all come out.

edit:

Christ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iV8X8ubGCc

 

[FadedRevolution]

People actually defend stuff like this?

This isn't discourse, this isn't activism, this is "fuck you give me what I want!".

I don't think that approach will work at all, but good luck to them.



As some one who has done actual activism, no it doesn't work.

When I approach some one in a friendly manner, I've had way more success on getting support, than if I just stand somewhere with a sign yelling.

One of the things we did one time, we went into a library and gave everyone energy drinks for free on finals week, and invited them to come to one of our talks. People actually showed up.

How many of the people in the video are going to join this movement? Zero.

Nobody is defending these particular actions at all. What we are defending it that BLM is a legitimate movement that doesn't deserve to be shitted on because of some random group of college kids does some dumb shit.

Also what was the cause you were doing activism for? Another thing how does disruptions not work? I mean the Civil Rights Movement worked apparently. BLM has gotten alot done with the disruptions that they have done. Explain to me how these protests didn't work.

 

[Gamerloid]

ALL lives matter. But I guess that makes me a 'racist lite' for saying so. Whatever, man. I hope those tactics work for you.

Is the movement called Only Black Lives Matter or something?