Noisepurge
Member
Ōkami;178838195 said:
he is running a rival burgerchain, obviously.
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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
- Start date
- Status
he is running a rival burgerchain, obviously.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
EmCeeGramr
Member
honestly i wanna know how a place called outer heaven got started without everyone in the big army intelligence room turning and looking at big boss considering that he/venom kept calling places "outer heaven" like it weren't no thang
funkystudent
Member
Its not for rewatching cutscenes.
You can view the dialogue of whatever cutscene you just saw, just text, it doesn't stay there for long either.
It's a completely pointless option.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Okay, so I said yesterday that I would write up how I'd re-write MGSV. Why? Because this is my closure. I hope you guys like it.
Firstly, I feel like there isn't a proper structure. So here's how we play it.
Breaking Bad.
Bear with me now. Breaking Bad is the storyline of a "good" man who embraces a monster inside him so that he may feel powerful. He becomes a rising crime lord and he eventually falls, hard.
MGSV isn't Breaking Bad, but it should follow a similar structure, a good man who is essentially becoming the villain to everyone around despite not seeing it initially. But for MGSV, I see it more like... Catalyst (destruction of Mother Base), Rise (Afghanistan/Africa), Fall (Confrontation/The Truth).
Prologue - Ground Zeroes - 1974
Left as is.
Chapter 1 - Cypress/Whaler - Early 1984
The opening is pretty phenomenal. I'd leave it as-is, however I'd greatly extend it by including a Whaler section that allows Venom to explore the ship and get used to his new arm and such. Something short, but I want something a bit more impactful than the montage we get. Actually make us work with Venom to bulk him up a bit. I'd make the hospital scenes a bit more surreal, and see if we can work in some hallucinatory segment in the Whaler. Maybe visions of The Boss or having Venom imagine he's in a field of blood red flowers while standing on the deck of the Whaler. It's basically his programming bleeding through and influencing him.
Chapter 2 - Afghanistan - Early/Mid 1984
For one thing, let's strip out some of those filler missions and have those be side-ops and bulk up the narrative in Afghanistan. The first missions is obviously rescuing Kaz, but let's have Venom encounter Quiet early on first before the next few missions mention her via the Russian troop dialogue. It's strange to utilize the Side Ops to turn it into a standard Episode to take Huey and meet Quiet.
Honestly, we also should have gotten a motorcycle here.
It would have made the vast expanse quicker and more fun to cross, it would have given another great option when engaging in open world stealth/traversal, and we could have gotten some wicked chases and shit.
Anyways, this chapter you get DD, Huey, and Quiet, while encountering Eli.
We're also lacking thorougly in boss battles and the fact that the Soviets... aren't fighting anyone!
Like MGS4, this really should be Snake wading into a pre-existing war. Why not be able to help the Mujahdeen? Save villages? Avoid them or make a choice? What kind of man is Venom, and by extension, you?
We have no bosses here either, so a longer, multi-stage battle with Quiet would be good. How about a battle against a legendary Afghan warrior that ends with you convincing him to join your crusade? An insane Soviet tank commander? There's very cool missions and gameplay, but there aren't enough of these dramatic punch moments.
And also, throughout this, let's get some interludes at Mother Base where Snake is suffering hallucinatory symptoms. Maybe you're walking along the medical base and you hear Eva's voice off in the distance, or The Boss telling you something, or Kiefer Sutherland as Naked Snake saying things, but Venom is not saying them. Doubt your sense of reality, but find grounding in the mission of revenge.
But one thing we really, really need, is a proper drive to solve the mystery. No meandering missions that just exist... End Afghanistan with the confrontation between Sehelanthropus, Mantis, and The Man on Fire, who continues to pursue Snake as he escapes.
Chapter 3 - Angola - Mid/Late 1984
So now we go to Africa, where Skull Face has set up operations as he continues to put together his plot.
The battle here is far nastier than in Afghanistan. I think just having the PFs isn't enough. This is during the Angolan Civil War.
Why on earth isn't this basically Hell on Earth? That's what it should be. This is where the legend of Big Boss needs to take on fiery, epic proportions. Why not have Skull Face playing both sides of the conflict, while fucking with the PFs, creating this nasty hornet's nest that Venom needs to wade through to get to Skull Face and Zero and kill them?
This is a situation that is fraught with wicked problems. Child Soldiers, Cold War Proxy war, Cipher civil war, ethnic cleansing. This is where the myth of Bis Boss is born.
During this chapter, the bonds between Quiet and Venom grow. DD grows up. Ocelot becomes more important to the running of Mother Base while Miller grows more marginalized. Huey's return causes tension but he tries to ingratiate himself to the crew. This is where Eli's presence comes about. This entire chapter is the build up and disintegration of relationships. Now, Quiet can't speak, so we need to go via sign language, facial expressions, etc. Ocelot and Miller are constantly at odds.
The missions in Africa are essentially about trying to erode Skull Face's support while increasing support for Diamond Dogs, and Venom and Skull Face mimic the Cold War by using proxies for their battles (the side ops/combat ops missions). Now these are sustained narrative missions that lead to...
Chapter 4 - Final Confrontation - Late 1984.
Okay, everything in Chapter 2 of the original game, we slice out and put here.
So this is a series of missions spread across Afghanistan, Angola, and Guantanamo that leads to a final confrontation between Skull Face and Venom.
None of this bullshit:
No, here's what I'd do:
Huey unleashes the parasites on Mother Base early in this chapter, forcing Snake to kill many of his own men, essentially decimating the ranks of Diamond Dogs and throwing everyone into despair after their victories in Chapters 2 and 3. After dealing with Huey, the Diamond Dogs have no choice but to take one final stand against Skull Face and Cipher. Low on resources and manpower, the surviving Diamond Dog members take the retro-fitted Whaler and go after Skull Face, at his last holdout...
Camp Omega. In the decade since Snake's coma, the camp has expanded to the size of a small village, with loyal XOF agents everywhere. It's a goddamn fortress.
Of course... the retrofitted Whaler... has goddamn cannons and the Diamond Dogs shell the coast, setting everything on fire. How could Ahab have killed the White Whale? By setting the entire world on fire.
Venom, Quiet, Ocelot, DD, and the surviving Diamond Dogs invade the Island, and it turns into a nightmarish hell on earth. This is where BB gets the rep for child soldiers, as all the orphans he rescued volunteer to help because they want to protect their new home. The load the cannons on the ship. Venom comes face to face with the Man on Fire, and finally kills him somehow, other than spraying him with water.
Quiet is killed saving Big Boss from Skull Face, while Ocelot and Miller command the Diamond Dogs into dealing with surviving XOF psychos. Ocelot and Miller are able to take down Mantis and co, forcing him to retreat. Venom cracks.
That leaves Big Boss and Skull Face alone. Here, Skull Face reveals his master plan as the island burns around them. He asks if Snake understands, cause he's at the end, desperate to have someone else understand.
Snake's response is "I don't care."
The battle they do is a shadowy mirror of the battle between Naked Snake and The Boss in Metal Gear Solid 3, however, instead of a field of white lillies, it's in a burning field with ash raining around them. They fight messily, bloodily, it's nearly inhuman. Without Mantis, Skull Face can't puppet Sehelanthropus. Snake bests Skull Face, and before finally killing him, Skull Face tells him the truth:
Both Skull Face and Venom Snake are simply shadows of the real Big Boss. Skull Face, the faceless man in the shadows behind his missions, and Venom, the faceless decoy with false memories and a false life.
Chapter 5 - The Truth - Late 1984
This is where it gets fucking surreal. Venom's real memories begin to break through the dam, mixing with Naked Snake's memories. The real world turns transitory while Venom is losing his goddamn mind. Here, Kojima could just go insane. This is Fight Club level crazy. Echoes of Silent Hill, why not.
I was actually thinking some of Hannibal's crazy moments. Anyway, you play through some crazy trippy levels where you can redo the Sorrow walk from MGS3, something from Peace Walker, and a bloody rendition of when the Medic got into a coma. A vision of Quiet leads him back to sanity... a vision that can talk. We can have a great long conversation here, like between Naked Snake and The Boss. Eventually, Venom gets his shit together and escapes, only to find out Eli has taken Sehelanthropus. We've already had the climax at this point though, so...
well, whatever, this is the final mission. Eli takes Sehelanthropus, however without Mantis at full strength, his Kingdom of the Flies stands no chance against Big Boss. That amazing scene at the end of Kingdom plays in its entirety, showing Eli's hatred of Big Boss, and Venom finally assuming the mantle of Big Boss, fully.
Epilogue - Outer Heaven - Sometime between 1985 and 1995.
lol, no.
Well, maybe.
Here's my ideal final scene. We intercut between two scenes. One, an older man with a horn in his head looking at his scarred visage in the mirror. He knows he is gonna die today. Win or lose. This is the end. The final tape, the one from 46 that was cut, plays.
The other scene? A young man HALO jumps towards a remote location in Africa.
He has some dialogue with a voice over the radio the concludes with his commanding officer telling him... "I have faith in you, son."
As the young man begins his infiltration, Venom punches the mirror. Credits roll.
The scene after the credits is the real Big Boss and Ocelot speaking to one another in 1984, where Big Boss and Ocelot talk about Venom and their faith in him.
Firstly, I feel like there isn't a proper structure. So here's how we play it.
Breaking Bad.
Bear with me now. Breaking Bad is the storyline of a "good" man who embraces a monster inside him so that he may feel powerful. He becomes a rising crime lord and he eventually falls, hard.
MGSV isn't Breaking Bad, but it should follow a similar structure, a good man who is essentially becoming the villain to everyone around despite not seeing it initially. But for MGSV, I see it more like... Catalyst (destruction of Mother Base), Rise (Afghanistan/Africa), Fall (Confrontation/The Truth).
Prologue - Ground Zeroes - 1974
Left as is.
Chapter 1 - Cypress/Whaler - Early 1984
The opening is pretty phenomenal. I'd leave it as-is, however I'd greatly extend it by including a Whaler section that allows Venom to explore the ship and get used to his new arm and such. Something short, but I want something a bit more impactful than the montage we get. Actually make us work with Venom to bulk him up a bit. I'd make the hospital scenes a bit more surreal, and see if we can work in some hallucinatory segment in the Whaler. Maybe visions of The Boss or having Venom imagine he's in a field of blood red flowers while standing on the deck of the Whaler. It's basically his programming bleeding through and influencing him.
Chapter 2 - Afghanistan - Early/Mid 1984
For one thing, let's strip out some of those filler missions and have those be side-ops and bulk up the narrative in Afghanistan. The first missions is obviously rescuing Kaz, but let's have Venom encounter Quiet early on first before the next few missions mention her via the Russian troop dialogue. It's strange to utilize the Side Ops to turn it into a standard Episode to take Huey and meet Quiet.
Honestly, we also should have gotten a motorcycle here.
It would have made the vast expanse quicker and more fun to cross, it would have given another great option when engaging in open world stealth/traversal, and we could have gotten some wicked chases and shit.
Anyways, this chapter you get DD, Huey, and Quiet, while encountering Eli.
We're also lacking thorougly in boss battles and the fact that the Soviets... aren't fighting anyone!
Like MGS4, this really should be Snake wading into a pre-existing war. Why not be able to help the Mujahdeen? Save villages? Avoid them or make a choice? What kind of man is Venom, and by extension, you?
We have no bosses here either, so a longer, multi-stage battle with Quiet would be good. How about a battle against a legendary Afghan warrior that ends with you convincing him to join your crusade? An insane Soviet tank commander? There's very cool missions and gameplay, but there aren't enough of these dramatic punch moments.
And also, throughout this, let's get some interludes at Mother Base where Snake is suffering hallucinatory symptoms. Maybe you're walking along the medical base and you hear Eva's voice off in the distance, or The Boss telling you something, or Kiefer Sutherland as Naked Snake saying things, but Venom is not saying them. Doubt your sense of reality, but find grounding in the mission of revenge.
But one thing we really, really need, is a proper drive to solve the mystery. No meandering missions that just exist... End Afghanistan with the confrontation between Sehelanthropus, Mantis, and The Man on Fire, who continues to pursue Snake as he escapes.
Chapter 3 - Angola - Mid/Late 1984
So now we go to Africa, where Skull Face has set up operations as he continues to put together his plot.
The battle here is far nastier than in Afghanistan. I think just having the PFs isn't enough. This is during the Angolan Civil War.
Why on earth isn't this basically Hell on Earth? That's what it should be. This is where the legend of Big Boss needs to take on fiery, epic proportions. Why not have Skull Face playing both sides of the conflict, while fucking with the PFs, creating this nasty hornet's nest that Venom needs to wade through to get to Skull Face and Zero and kill them?
This is a situation that is fraught with wicked problems. Child Soldiers, Cold War Proxy war, Cipher civil war, ethnic cleansing. This is where the myth of Bis Boss is born.
During this chapter, the bonds between Quiet and Venom grow. DD grows up. Ocelot becomes more important to the running of Mother Base while Miller grows more marginalized. Huey's return causes tension but he tries to ingratiate himself to the crew. This is where Eli's presence comes about. This entire chapter is the build up and disintegration of relationships. Now, Quiet can't speak, so we need to go via sign language, facial expressions, etc. Ocelot and Miller are constantly at odds.
The missions in Africa are essentially about trying to erode Skull Face's support while increasing support for Diamond Dogs, and Venom and Skull Face mimic the Cold War by using proxies for their battles (the side ops/combat ops missions). Now these are sustained narrative missions that lead to...
Chapter 4 - Final Confrontation - Late 1984.
Okay, everything in Chapter 2 of the original game, we slice out and put here.
So this is a series of missions spread across Afghanistan, Angola, and Guantanamo that leads to a final confrontation between Skull Face and Venom.
None of this bullshit:
No, here's what I'd do:
Huey unleashes the parasites on Mother Base early in this chapter, forcing Snake to kill many of his own men, essentially decimating the ranks of Diamond Dogs and throwing everyone into despair after their victories in Chapters 2 and 3. After dealing with Huey, the Diamond Dogs have no choice but to take one final stand against Skull Face and Cipher. Low on resources and manpower, the surviving Diamond Dog members take the retro-fitted Whaler and go after Skull Face, at his last holdout...
Camp Omega. In the decade since Snake's coma, the camp has expanded to the size of a small village, with loyal XOF agents everywhere. It's a goddamn fortress.
Of course... the retrofitted Whaler... has goddamn cannons and the Diamond Dogs shell the coast, setting everything on fire. How could Ahab have killed the White Whale? By setting the entire world on fire.
Venom, Quiet, Ocelot, DD, and the surviving Diamond Dogs invade the Island, and it turns into a nightmarish hell on earth. This is where BB gets the rep for child soldiers, as all the orphans he rescued volunteer to help because they want to protect their new home. The load the cannons on the ship. Venom comes face to face with the Man on Fire, and finally kills him somehow, other than spraying him with water.
Quiet is killed saving Big Boss from Skull Face, while Ocelot and Miller command the Diamond Dogs into dealing with surviving XOF psychos. Ocelot and Miller are able to take down Mantis and co, forcing him to retreat. Venom cracks.
That leaves Big Boss and Skull Face alone. Here, Skull Face reveals his master plan as the island burns around them. He asks if Snake understands, cause he's at the end, desperate to have someone else understand.
Snake's response is "I don't care."
The battle they do is a shadowy mirror of the battle between Naked Snake and The Boss in Metal Gear Solid 3, however, instead of a field of white lillies, it's in a burning field with ash raining around them. They fight messily, bloodily, it's nearly inhuman. Without Mantis, Skull Face can't puppet Sehelanthropus. Snake bests Skull Face, and before finally killing him, Skull Face tells him the truth:
Both Skull Face and Venom Snake are simply shadows of the real Big Boss. Skull Face, the faceless man in the shadows behind his missions, and Venom, the faceless decoy with false memories and a false life.
Chapter 5 - The Truth - Late 1984
This is where it gets fucking surreal. Venom's real memories begin to break through the dam, mixing with Naked Snake's memories. The real world turns transitory while Venom is losing his goddamn mind. Here, Kojima could just go insane. This is Fight Club level crazy. Echoes of Silent Hill, why not.
I was actually thinking some of Hannibal's crazy moments. Anyway, you play through some crazy trippy levels where you can redo the Sorrow walk from MGS3, something from Peace Walker, and a bloody rendition of when the Medic got into a coma. A vision of Quiet leads him back to sanity... a vision that can talk. We can have a great long conversation here, like between Naked Snake and The Boss. Eventually, Venom gets his shit together and escapes, only to find out Eli has taken Sehelanthropus. We've already had the climax at this point though, so...
well, whatever, this is the final mission. Eli takes Sehelanthropus, however without Mantis at full strength, his Kingdom of the Flies stands no chance against Big Boss. That amazing scene at the end of Kingdom plays in its entirety, showing Eli's hatred of Big Boss, and Venom finally assuming the mantle of Big Boss, fully.
Epilogue - Outer Heaven - Sometime between 1985 and 1995.
lol, no.
Well, maybe.
Here's my ideal final scene. We intercut between two scenes. One, an older man with a horn in his head looking at his scarred visage in the mirror. He knows he is gonna die today. Win or lose. This is the end. The final tape, the one from 46 that was cut, plays.
The other scene? A young man HALO jumps towards a remote location in Africa.
He has some dialogue with a voice over the radio the concludes with his commanding officer telling him... "I have faith in you, son."
As the young man begins his infiltration, Venom punches the mirror. Credits roll.
The scene after the credits is the real Big Boss and Ocelot speaking to one another in 1984, where Big Boss and Ocelot talk about Venom and their faith in him.
razzmahtazz
Member
Did BB even know that SS was his "son" while training him?
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, that's why he has the codename Snake after all.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Okay, so I said yesterday that I would write up how I'd re-write MGSV. Why? Because this is my closure.
Firstly, I feel like there isn't a proper structure. So here's how we play it.
Breaking Bad.
Bear with me now. Breaking Bad is the storyline of a "good" man who embraces a monster inside him so that he may feel powerful. He becomes a rising crime lord and he eventually falls, hard.
MGSV isn't Breaking Bad, but it should follow a similar structure, a good man who is essentially becoming the villain to everyone around despite not seeing it initially. But for MGSV, I see it more like... Catalyst (destruction of Mother Base), Rise (Afghanistan/Africa), Fall (Confrontation/The Truth).
Prologue - Ground Zeroes - 1974
Left as is.
Chapter 1 - Cypress/Whaler - Early 1984
The opening is pretty phenomenal. I'd leave it as-is, however I'd greatly extend it by including a Whaler section that allows Venom to explore the ship and get used to his new arm and such. Something short, but I want something a bit more impactful than the montage we get. Actually make us work with Venom to bulk him up a bit. I'd make the hospital scenes a bit more surreal, and see if we can work in some hallucinatory segment in the Whaler. Maybe visions of The Boss or having Venom imagine he's in a field of blood red flowers while standing on the deck of the Whaler. It's basically his programming bleeding through and influencing him.
Chapter 2 - Afghanistan - Early/Mid 1984
For one thing, let's strip out some of those filler missions and have those be side-ops and bulk up the narrative in Afghanistan. The first missions is obviously rescuing Kaz, but let's have Venom encounter Quiet early on first before the next few missions mention her via the Russian troop dialogue. It's strange to utilize the Side Ops to turn it into a standard Episode to take Huey and meet Quiet.
Honestly, we also should have gotten a motorcycle here.
It would have made the vast expanse quicker and more fun to cross, it would have given another great option when engaging in open world stealth/traversal, and we could have gotten some wicked chases and shit.
Anyways, this chapter you get DD, Huey, and Quiet, while encountering Eli.
We're also lacking thorougly in boss battles and the fact that the Soviets... aren't fighting anyone!
Like MGS4, this really should be Snake wading into a pre-existing war. Why not be able to help the Mujahdeen? Save villages? Avoid them or make a choice? What kind of man is Venom, and by extension, you?
We have no bosses here either, so a longer, multi-stage battle with Quiet would be good. How about a battle against a legendary Afghan warrior that ends with you convincing him to join your crusade? An insane Soviet tank commander? There's very cool missions and gameplay, but there aren't enough of these dramatic punch moments.
And also, throughout this, let's get some interludes at Mother Base where Snake is suffering hallucinatory symptoms. Maybe you're walking along the medical base and you hear Eva's voice off in the distance, or The Boss telling you something, or Kiefer Sutherland as Naked Snake saying things, but Venom is not saying them. Doubt your sense of reality, but find grounding in the mission of revenge.
But one thing we really, really need, is a proper drive to solve the mystery. No meandering missions that just exist... End Afghanistan with the confrontation between Sehelanthropus, Mantis, and The Man on Fire, who continues to pursue Snake as he escapes.
Chapter 3 - Angola - Mid/Late 1984
So now we go to Africa, where Skull Face has set up operations as he continues to put together his plot.
The battle here is far nastier than in Afghanistan. I think just having the PFs isn't enough. This is during the Angolan Civil War.
Why on earth isn't this basically Hell on Earth? That's what it should be. This is where the legend of Big Boss needs to take on fiery, epic proportions. Why not have Skull Face playing both sides of the conflict, while fucking with the PFs, creating this nasty hornet's nest that Venom needs to wade through to get to Skull Face and Zero and kill them?
This is a situation that is fraught with wicked problems. Child Soldiers, Cold War Proxy war, Cipher civil war, ethnic cleansing. This is where the myth of Bis Boss is born.
During this chapter, the bonds between Quiet and Venom grow. DD grows up. Ocelot becomes more important to the running of Mother Base while Miller grows more marginalized. Huey's return causes tension but he tries to ingratiate himself to the crew. This is where Eli's presence comes about. This entire chapter is the build up and disintegration of relationships. Now, Quiet can't speak, so we need to go via sign language, facial expressions, etc. Ocelot and Miller are constantly at odds.
The missions in Africa are essentially about trying to erode Skull Face's support while increasing support for Diamond Dogs, and Venom and Skull Face mimic the Cold War by using proxies for their battles (the side ops/combat ops missions). Now these are sustained narrative missions that lead to...
Chapter 4 - Final Confrontation - Late 1984.
Okay, everything in Chapter 2 of the original game, we slice out and put here.
So this is a series of missions spread across Afghanistan, Angola, and Guantanamo that leads to a final confrontation between Skull Face and Venom.
None of this bullshit:
No, here's what I'd do:
Huey unleashes the parasites on Mother Base early in this chapter, forcing Snake to kill many of his own men, essentially decimating the ranks of Diamond Dogs and throwing everyone into despair after their victories in Chapters 2 and 3. After dealing with Huey, the Diamond Dogs have no choice but to take one final stand against Skull Face and Cipher. Low on resources and manpower, the surviving Diamond Dog members take the retro-fitted Whaler and go after Skull Face, at his last holdout...
Camp Omega. In the decade since Snake's coma, the camp has expanded to the size of a small village, with loyal XOF agents everywhere. It's a goddamn fortress.
Of course... the retrofitted Whaler... has goddamn cannons and the Diamond Dogs shell the coast, setting everything on fire. How could Ahab have killed the White Whale? By setting the entire world on fire.
Venom, Quiet, Ocelot, DD, and the surviving Diamond Dogs invade the Island, and it turns into a nightmarish hell on earth. This is where BB gets the rep for child soldiers, as all the orphans he rescued volunteer to help because they want to protect their new home. The load the cannons on the ship. Venom comes face to face with the Man on Fire, and finally kills him somehow, other than spraying him with water.
Quiet is killed saving Big Boss from Skull Face, while Ocelot and Miller command the Diamond Dogs into dealing with surviving XOF psychos. Ocelot and Miller are able to take down Mantis and co, forcing him to retreat. Venom cracks.
That leaves Big Boss and Skull Face alone. Here, Skull Face reveals his master plan as the island burns around them. He asks if Snake understands, cause he's at the end, desperate to have someone else understand.
Snake's response is "I don't care."
The battle they do is a shadowy mirror of the battle between Naked Snake and The Boss in Metal Gear Solid 3, however, instead of a field of white lillies, it's in a burning field with ash raining around them. They fight messily, bloodily, it's nearly inhuman. Without Mantis, Skull Face can't puppet Sehelanthropus. Snake bests Skull Face, and before finally killing him, Skull Face tells him the truth:
Both Skull Face and Venom Snake are simply shadows of the real Big Boss. Skull Face, the faceless man in the shadows behind his missions, and Venom, the faceless decoy with false memories and a false life.
Chapter 5 - The Truth - Late 1984
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83jWwQfK-f8
This is where it gets fucking surreal. Venom's real memories begin to break through the dam, mixing with Naked Snake's memories. The real world turns transitory while Venom is losing his goddamn mind. Here, Kojima could just go insane. This is Fight Club level crazy. Echoes of Silent Hill, why not.
I was actually thinking some of Hannibal's crazy moments. Anyway, you play through some crazy trippy levels where you can redo the Sorrow walk from MGS3, something from Peace Walker, and a bloody rendition of when the Medic got into a coma. A vision of Quiet leads him back to sanity... a vision that can talk. We can have a great long conversation here, like between Naked Snake and The Boss. Eventually, Venom gets his shit together and escapes, only to find out Eli has taken Sehelanthropus. We've already had the climax at this point though, so...
well, whatever, this is the final mission. Eli takes Sehelanthropus, however without Mantis at full strength, his Kingdom of the Flies stands no chance against Big Boss. That amazing scene at the end of Kingdom plays in its entirety, showing Eli's hatred of Big Boss, and Venom finally assuming the mantle of Big Boss, fully.
Epilogue - Outer Heaven - Sometime between 1985 and 1995.
lol, no.
Well, maybe.
Here's my ideal final scene. We intercut between two scenes. One, an older man with a horn in his head looking at his scarred visage in the mirror. He knows he is gonna die today. Win or lose. This is the end. The final tape, the one from 46 that was cut, plays.
The other scene? A young man HALO jumps towards a remote location in Africa.
He has some dialogue with a voice over the radio the concludes with his commanding officer telling him... "I have faith in you, son."
As the young man begins his infiltration, Venom punches the mirror. Credits roll.
The scene after the credits is the real Big Boss and Ocelot speaking to one another in 1984, where Big Boss and Ocelot talk about Venom and their faith in him.
WonkyPanda
Member
Yup. I am not sure if he knew for a long time, i.e. tracking him; but, by that point, he knew and trained snake and that's why he gave him that moniker.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Yeah.
I like to imagine that what happened is that Big Boss was put in a bad position, being forced to take Venom Snake down but not necessarily wanting to kill Solid Snake... so he sends Snake in as a rookie, hoping that the better man will win somehow. He feeds the wrong info to Snake, but he hopes secretly that he'll be crafty enough to survive, but knowing the whole time that one of them will die...
WonkyPanda
Member
Well, doesn't V being taken down force BB's hands and triggers the events of MG2/Zanzibar? By that point, BB was losing his war against Cipher/Patriots and Solid Snake was just still a pawn.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Congrats, i started trying to do that but just got pissed off and realized the Hospital missions have ranks and I looked at that and said "Fuck that"
RIP in peace
Unknown One
Member
I would assume so. How would you not be able to recognize your younger self? I mean they look pretty close. That'll be like forgetting how you looked as a teenager.
Which is the stupidest thing in the game by a long mile. 'Hey, i can use her in episode 1 before i even meet her, but I can't after i play 45'. Dumb design of the century there.
If it doesn't happen, and she never returns, i'll just use my PS4 save to get all trophies, and ultimately do 45 and lose her for the platinum (and Raiden), and i'll keep her on my PC save, but I can't forgive this bullshit.
Lots of great ideas in there, would have made for a killer send off to the franchise.
I'm going to expand a bit because I've decided you deserve more than a one sentence recognition.
I like how you've resisted the temptation to completely rewrite the game and instead largely worked within the framework of existing plot-points and beats. I also appreciate that you've not gone overboard on the content; you add quite a bit, but a lot of it builds off existing assets and seems feasible.
You've also manages to take the Venom Snake twist, a completely impotent beat in the original game, and given it some merit. Far from the first to do a hallucinating protagonist, but I enjoy that you embraced it rather than Kojima's lame one time use.
All in all, you're pretty good.
WonkyPanda
Member
Man, Bowie's song was a fucking brilliant allusion; i'm an idiot.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
I agree. Terrible decision for an open world sandbox with replayabity.
snake_eater_raiden
Member
My take on how MGS5's story should have been [I posted this in another thread as well]
Afghanistan - Chapter 1
No body double, we are playing as Big Boss. Big Boss awakes from his coma and Ocelot rescues him and brings him to DD, a offshore unit that is funded by Cipher and under check by Kaz, so that Zero can manipulate Big Boss. DD is nothing but the war arm of Cipher but BB does not know about this.
Big Boss, Ocelot and Miller keep on building Motherbase but BB is unaware that Kaz is a Cipher spy.
Kaz wants revenge but only against Skullface. Since Skullface defected and destroyed MB in GZ, Kaz suffers massive revenue loss. Remember he is in it for business. Zero tells Kaz to manipulate BB and gain revenge and remove his nemesis: Skull Face
They finally get hold of Skullface and gets him killed not before Skullface leaves a cassette tape for Big Boss which reveals the truth about Kaz and Cipher. He reveals that Kaz is only in it for business purpose. Big Boss also defeats the new Metal Gear and gets hold of it.
However after learning the truth about Kaz, Big Boss is angry and reacts but almost the whole of DD turns against Big Boss. Big Boss kills each one of them and Kaz escapes. DD is disbanded and Cipher's plans are unfolded.
Africa - Chapter 2
Big Boss now takes whatever he can from the old Motherbase, including the new Metal Gear and loyal soldiers and begins to form OH in Africa. Ocelot makes sure that this information is not leaked to Cipher.
Ocelot makes sure that Cipher is unaware about BB'a location. Cipher in retaliation uses Solidus to spread the legend of BB. Lies and deceit spread about Big Boss.
Fultoning out Soldiers, and gaining resources, Big Boss keeps on building OH. He extracts Huey who is doing research for Cipher for a new Metal Gear which does not work out. Gray Fox, Naomi and Sniper Wolf and several other original members are extracted/saved as well and Big Boss starts forming his own war machine.
Ocelot then informs him about Liquid Snake in Africa. Big Boss extracts him. Liquid learns about his father but hates him. This leads to a retaliation and Liquid along with child soldiers forms Kingdom of Flies and runs away with the new Metal Gear. However Big Boss defeats him and leaves him to starve. Somehow Liquid manages to escape and reaches UK. BB once again manages to extract the Metal Gear and with the help of Huey, repairs and enhances it and names it as TX55.
Big Boss now completely forms OH with Cipher having no knowledge about it. But at the right time, Big Boss returns to US, makes amends with Zero and Kaz.
Chapter 3: OH
Fast Fwd 1995.
Big Boss finally meets Solid Snake. Trains him along with Kaz.
However, due to a proxy network of the Patriots, Cipher comes to know that a certain mercenary unit is retaliating in Africa. Outer Heaven.
Big Boss gets wind of this information and purposely sends Gray Fox, his best soldier and lieutenant. Gray Fox and Big Boss purposely create a drama where the former will get captured.
Big Boss reports back to Cipher and insists the mission wont work since they now have Gray Fox, one of their best soldiers captured and they cant afford to lose any more good men.
However, Cipher insists through a proxy that BB needs to send Solid Snake.
With no option left, he does as Cipher commands, however he makes it harder for SS to infiltrate by purposely setting traps.
Much to his surprise, SS gets through, defeats all the bosses. On his journey, SS collects cassette tapes which makes him aware about what actually is going on. In the end he receives a cassette tape Number 46 title "From The Man Who Sold The World" where a recording is present between Gray Fox and BB, which reveals that BB is the leader of OH.
Big Boss gets hold of this and has no option but to reveal himself in OH. Boss Battle ensues with Metal Gear. Snake "kills" Big Boss.
Game ends.
Afghanistan - Chapter 1
No body double, we are playing as Big Boss. Big Boss awakes from his coma and Ocelot rescues him and brings him to DD, a offshore unit that is funded by Cipher and under check by Kaz, so that Zero can manipulate Big Boss. DD is nothing but the war arm of Cipher but BB does not know about this.
Big Boss, Ocelot and Miller keep on building Motherbase but BB is unaware that Kaz is a Cipher spy.
Kaz wants revenge but only against Skullface. Since Skullface defected and destroyed MB in GZ, Kaz suffers massive revenue loss. Remember he is in it for business. Zero tells Kaz to manipulate BB and gain revenge and remove his nemesis: Skull Face
They finally get hold of Skullface and gets him killed not before Skullface leaves a cassette tape for Big Boss which reveals the truth about Kaz and Cipher. He reveals that Kaz is only in it for business purpose. Big Boss also defeats the new Metal Gear and gets hold of it.
However after learning the truth about Kaz, Big Boss is angry and reacts but almost the whole of DD turns against Big Boss. Big Boss kills each one of them and Kaz escapes. DD is disbanded and Cipher's plans are unfolded.
Africa - Chapter 2
Big Boss now takes whatever he can from the old Motherbase, including the new Metal Gear and loyal soldiers and begins to form OH in Africa. Ocelot makes sure that this information is not leaked to Cipher.
Ocelot makes sure that Cipher is unaware about BB'a location. Cipher in retaliation uses Solidus to spread the legend of BB. Lies and deceit spread about Big Boss.
Fultoning out Soldiers, and gaining resources, Big Boss keeps on building OH. He extracts Huey who is doing research for Cipher for a new Metal Gear which does not work out. Gray Fox, Naomi and Sniper Wolf and several other original members are extracted/saved as well and Big Boss starts forming his own war machine.
Ocelot then informs him about Liquid Snake in Africa. Big Boss extracts him. Liquid learns about his father but hates him. This leads to a retaliation and Liquid along with child soldiers forms Kingdom of Flies and runs away with the new Metal Gear. However Big Boss defeats him and leaves him to starve. Somehow Liquid manages to escape and reaches UK. BB once again manages to extract the Metal Gear and with the help of Huey, repairs and enhances it and names it as TX55.
Big Boss now completely forms OH with Cipher having no knowledge about it. But at the right time, Big Boss returns to US, makes amends with Zero and Kaz.
Chapter 3: OH
Fast Fwd 1995.
Big Boss finally meets Solid Snake. Trains him along with Kaz.
However, due to a proxy network of the Patriots, Cipher comes to know that a certain mercenary unit is retaliating in Africa. Outer Heaven.
Big Boss gets wind of this information and purposely sends Gray Fox, his best soldier and lieutenant. Gray Fox and Big Boss purposely create a drama where the former will get captured.
Big Boss reports back to Cipher and insists the mission wont work since they now have Gray Fox, one of their best soldiers captured and they cant afford to lose any more good men.
However, Cipher insists through a proxy that BB needs to send Solid Snake.
With no option left, he does as Cipher commands, however he makes it harder for SS to infiltrate by purposely setting traps.
Much to his surprise, SS gets through, defeats all the bosses. On his journey, SS collects cassette tapes which makes him aware about what actually is going on. In the end he receives a cassette tape Number 46 title "From The Man Who Sold The World" where a recording is present between Gray Fox and BB, which reveals that BB is the leader of OH.
Big Boss gets hold of this and has no option but to reveal himself in OH. Boss Battle ensues with Metal Gear. Snake "kills" Big Boss.
Game ends.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Miller knows about Big Boss' plan by then, right? And is super, super pissed about it?
Maybe Code Talker is just referencing that Miller is plotting against Big Boss eventually.
thecosmicfly
Banned
I'm glad I read about mission 31 being the first ending, because boy did it prepare me for how disjointed as fuck the rest of the game becomes. The pacing and design choices for MGSV's story are so all over the map it's not difficult to see why people are bummed and confused about it all, and KojiPro don't make it easy on themselves.
Having said that, I could strangely enough see what they might've been going for. I mean, lingering quests and missions after the main storyline has ended happen all the time in RPG's, and the idea of life going on after Skull Face's demise has promise. They just did a really, really bad job of conveying that for a lot of people. As far as I'm concerned 31 is where the base game ended and everything after is a ton of bonus content, for better or worse.
Now if I could be Grand Lord Revisionist History Game Designer for a minute, this is how I would've restructured the plot/missions to convey everything better:
- First, take out the 2 Chapter titles. As they exist now they make absolutely no sense. Instead, have 3-5 Chapter cards appear throughout missions 4-31. Or hell, just take them all out all together.
- For all of the repeat missions that aren't story critical (Subsistence/Extreme/Total Stealth etc.), have a new tab in the Missions List appear labeled something distinctive like "Challenge/Bonus Missions." Y'know, like they actually are.
- As for the missions that continue the story/wrap up lingering threads, have another tab labelled "Epilogues".
fyi, I'm not saying this fixes all of the stories issues. There're cutscenes/missions post-31 that I personally could see being reconfigured into Chapter 1, and vice versa. There're story threads that right now come across half baked or cringe inducing even by MGS standards. Who could say, maybe Kojima did intended for 1-2 more chapters with 80 more hours of content that perfectly leads right into Metal Gear 1. This is all purely armchair designing from me at 7 in the morning.
Having said that, I could strangely enough see what they might've been going for. I mean, lingering quests and missions after the main storyline has ended happen all the time in RPG's, and the idea of life going on after Skull Face's demise has promise. They just did a really, really bad job of conveying that for a lot of people. As far as I'm concerned 31 is where the base game ended and everything after is a ton of bonus content, for better or worse.
Now if I could be Grand Lord Revisionist History Game Designer for a minute, this is how I would've restructured the plot/missions to convey everything better:
- First, take out the 2 Chapter titles. As they exist now they make absolutely no sense. Instead, have 3-5 Chapter cards appear throughout missions 4-31. Or hell, just take them all out all together.
- For all of the repeat missions that aren't story critical (Subsistence/Extreme/Total Stealth etc.), have a new tab in the Missions List appear labeled something distinctive like "Challenge/Bonus Missions." Y'know, like they actually are.
- As for the missions that continue the story/wrap up lingering threads, have another tab labelled "Epilogues".
fyi, I'm not saying this fixes all of the stories issues. There're cutscenes/missions post-31 that I personally could see being reconfigured into Chapter 1, and vice versa. There're story threads that right now come across half baked or cringe inducing even by MGS standards. Who could say, maybe Kojima did intended for 1-2 more chapters with 80 more hours of content that perfectly leads right into Metal Gear 1. This is all purely armchair designing from me at 7 in the morning.
FUCK Mission 45 gameplay-wise though. Such a piss ass level.
BudokaiMR2
Member
Ōkami;178838195 said:
Well he was just passing on the bugs opinion of him, and since they are purely photosynthetic I guess they might be part of PETA?
So does that mean PETA is a branch of Cypher as well?
I thought that at that point only Ocelot knew and Miller only found out later? I have no idea why I think that though along with most of my conclusions about the plot in this game.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Okay, so having had time to really absorb this ending
It feels like a twist in pursuit of a story. I don't think it's a bad twist on its own, though I expected something like it. Everyone just being fine with this situation confused me. It especially confused me because my created character had brown skin and then the next day was white, but I can see what they were trying to do.
But there was no real build up to it. I didn't see enough of Venom Snake to really get why he was supposed to be different. It was a twist that felt more like Kojima going "Aha, fooled you!" than "This makes the story better."
I don't think it really added anything to the series canon. We'll never know how this is supposed to fit, all we can do is guess. I guess I'm disappointed primarily because Metal Gear Solid 3 is one of my favorite video games of all time and this, the final story of Big Boss, was not a story of him at all.
It feels like a twist in pursuit of a story. I don't think it's a bad twist on its own, though I expected something like it. Everyone just being fine with this situation confused me. It especially confused me because my created character had brown skin and then the next day was white, but I can see what they were trying to do.
But there was no real build up to it. I didn't see enough of Venom Snake to really get why he was supposed to be different. It was a twist that felt more like Kojima going "Aha, fooled you!" than "This makes the story better."
I don't think it really added anything to the series canon. We'll never know how this is supposed to fit, all we can do is guess. I guess I'm disappointed primarily because Metal Gear Solid 3 is one of my favorite video games of all time and this, the final story of Big Boss, was not a story of him at all.
ShockingAlberto
Member
And man, they had the perfect opportunity with this twist to pull a Hayter swerve, but I guess those bridges were burnt.
It wouldn't have made sense, Keifer voiced the true Big Boss in Ground Zeroes.
WonkyPanda
Member
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
You've identified two main problems here:
A) Twist has no build up to it
B) Twist has no positive effect narrative
Both can be solved by just putting the twist early in the game, and letting the plot deal with the ramifications. Generally, when a twist occurs at the end of the story it has some sort of retroactive revelatory effect. The plot now takes on a different meaning (see: Boss being a true patriot). That doesn't happen here, at all. The twist has no noticeable effect whatsoever on the events of the plot, and therefore serves little to no purpose.
I've said it before, and its true - Kojima should have gone all the way when stealing from himself; MGS 2 put its swap up and front, and was better for it.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
There is no exactly.
Presumably Miller discovers the truth around the time Venom does or at the very least AFTER Skullface dies and Huey is exiled.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
OmgI'm sure this has been posted before but it's pretty funny.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Ōkami;178840310 said:
True.
I actually forgot he talked in GZ.
WonkyPanda
Member
Man, I don't know if I feel worse for Kaz or V. Not only does Snake leave Miller high and dry, but he got a new bae and Miller isn't even relegated to side ho (that's Ocelot).
This is ironic considering he talked a hell of a lot more there than in the 40hr game.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
WonkyPanda
Member
Let it sink in that big boss talked more in MGS4 than V.
SHE SHURFIFED
Revengineer
Unconfirmed Member
I'm sure this has been posted before but it's pretty funny.
New to me. Thanks for the laugh even though it woke up my roomie.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Also, the video of the "nuke free" ending from earlier in the thread has been taken down. Does anyone have a backup link?
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Venom is some weird creepy disciple like most of DIamond Dogs and formerly MSF.
Miller never bought into Big Boss' bullshit though. He had some feelings for him as the Zero tapes in this game imply but he never drank the kool-aid. He kept things strictly business until they got personal, and when they got personal he blew a persons limbs off as revenge.
Its a shame you can't turn his voice off in gameplay otherwise I'd consider him the best MGSV character.
WonkyPanda
Member
You're extracting him?!
Robot Pants
Member
The sigint/DARPA chief thing always made me so mad.
Everyone in this franchise is so connected to each other it's annoying.
Everyone's a son or daughter or becomes someone else later on down the line. Hate it.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Yeah, those are the two big problems here.
A) The twist is so barely explored. Speculate on how this makes Big Boss really evil now because he went along with it or what Venom Snake was thinking by the time of the MSX game happening, but it's all just empty speculation with neither character really giving any kind of honest introspection about it.
B) The whole game feels ultimately pointless in a lot of ways. We know how things end up, and there's so much lore already, that a ton of characters' actions and additions to the lore either end up being needless precursors or have to end anticlimactically because we already know what happens to them in future games. Sahelanthropus is super advanced, but it doesn't actually work without a psychic. And that psychic was apparently a floating plot device/rage powered Gradius option in his childhood... before he stopped being that. Volgin's alive sorta! Now he's dead. Skull Face is gonna do something! Now he's crushed. Miller and Huey are huge dicks! Miller goes on to be a mellow radio man, Huey does nothing of import ever again, because we know exactly what happens to them later. A legendary mercenary builds a merc company on an oil rig that's the precursor to Outer Heaven... we already did that. Did you know that there were these superpower bugs? Neat, huh? Well, later.
He had so much time and he didn't use it effectively. I don't know what else to say.
Beat Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
Really? really? REALLY?!!?!?!?!?!?! that was the ending gameplay sequence to this game? hahaha okay, I understand that the real gameplay ending that got cut; would have been what these fantastic mechanics and systems deserve, but the one they left on the disc (like fuck the story context for a second), what you do...is terrible.
It's so boring, both gameplay sequences by the way, fucking cinematic walking trash. Story wise, I like the twist on paper and even the idea of the twist, I don't think the rest of the story earns it.
Otherwise now that i have the ending out of the way, I can replay all these other great missions and get back to the fantastic part of the game. But, I do not think MGSV ends strong, it's fucking weak, and not just by the high ass bar the game sets. It would be weak for any fucking game. Are you kidding?
Really? really? REALLY?!!?!?!?!?!?! that was the ending gameplay sequence to this game? hahaha okay, I understand that the real gameplay ending that got cut; would have been what these fantastic mechanics and systems deserve, but the one they left on the disc (like fuck the story context for a second), what you do...is terrible.
It's so boring, both gameplay sequences by the way, fucking cinematic walking trash. Story wise, I like the twist on paper and even the idea of the twist, I don't think the rest of the story earns it.
Otherwise now that i have the ending out of the way, I can replay all these other great missions and get back to the fantastic part of the game. But, I do not think MGSV ends strong, it's fucking weak, and not just by the high ass bar the game sets. It would be weak for any fucking game. Are you kidding?
Banana Aeon
Member
I'm sure this has been posted before but it's pretty funny.
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