Nah, the Big Boss face is much more detailed than my bad avatar face.
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SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).
- Thread starter Love Deterrence
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Nah, the Big Boss face is much more detailed than my bad avatar face.
Where do you select your avatar in place of big boss?
When I drop into missions and do select character I can only see my A tier plus soldiers from the combat platform.
I can't understand the reasoning for the cut tape, it's fucking great.
Maybe it came after episode 51 or something, but damn. Can't we get a patch to include it somehow? Pls Kojima.
I'm on the boat that I think Venom is great and such an amazing opportunity for character development.
The new timeline says:
MG1 - Venom
MG2 - Big Boss
Maybe it came after episode 51 or something, but damn. Can't we get a patch to include it somehow? Pls Kojima.
I'm on the boat that I think Venom is great and such an amazing opportunity for character development.
The new timeline says:
MG1 - Venom
MG2 - Big Boss
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Big Boss didn't want to let the world be. He and Venom worked together in everything, and BB himself was directly involved in Outer Heaven by sending Solid Snake in and commanding him the entire time.
After this story fiasco it somehow makes sense that there was never a release date at first. I guess they were about 60-70% finished with everything (maybe 50%?) and as soon as they knew that they have to release the game (beginning of the year I guess) they had to scrap all this other content. I guess that is also the reason why the trailers almost have every cutscene (or rather the story) and that they wanted to do more (maybe even chapter 3?)
I've played the game for 96 hours now and the gameplay is cool, but now a bit boring, because you always do the same shit just with various tools. The story killed me. MGS1 was my "dad" game where I watched him fail and took over for him as a kid and we played through it. I played through the game at least 15 times and I adore the wacky story, but this time... there is nothing MGS in it. No funny bits (except for the hamburgers), Snake doesn't talk (except for cassests lol) and he also lost all his humor.
The most awkward scene was riding with Skull Face in that jeep. I couldn't believe that Snake didn't talk one word in 10-15 minutes and just looked at us once, the player.
Venome Snake could have been accepted if Kojima had played his cards right. Add Big Boss story with finding Grey Fox, Naomi and some other people. Have one final mission and cutscene with Outer Heaven MG infiltration and Solid Snake. Everyone would have accepted all this bullshit. But there is fucking nothing. Awh... I also sit at 81% so I got a bit more to do, but nothing that is fun.
I've played the game for 96 hours now and the gameplay is cool, but now a bit boring, because you always do the same shit just with various tools. The story killed me. MGS1 was my "dad" game where I watched him fail and took over for him as a kid and we played through it. I played through the game at least 15 times and I adore the wacky story, but this time... there is nothing MGS in it. No funny bits (except for the hamburgers), Snake doesn't talk (except for cassests lol) and he also lost all his humor.
The most awkward scene was riding with Skull Face in that jeep. I couldn't believe that Snake didn't talk one word in 10-15 minutes and just looked at us once, the player.
Venome Snake could have been accepted if Kojima had played his cards right. Add Big Boss story with finding Grey Fox, Naomi and some other people. Have one final mission and cutscene with Outer Heaven MG infiltration and Solid Snake. Everyone would have accepted all this bullshit. But there is fucking nothing. Awh... I also sit at 81% so I got a bit more to do, but nothing that is fun.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
Oh wait so if I'm understanding this right, Venom dies in MG1, but BB is the real big bad of MG2?
Yep, I prefer it that way. I don't care for Venom Snake at all anymore. I'd rather play as the 'truth'.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Yeah, that's what is implied at the reveal of the game.
Look at the timeline from the ending credits. Venom dies in MG1. Big Boss dies in MG2.
In MGS4, Big Boss admits that both he and Zero misinterpreted The Boss' will. Meta-narrative is fine, but using a nameless character with no background, personality, etc & saying it's us, the players, was dumb. MGS2 did it far better. This whole thing turns Big Boss into an idea, not a man. Anyone can be Big Boss apparently. It's quite foolish.
Marvel
could never
I always hear the "Puss" on the end, makes me laugh every time.
When you think about it and despite my gripes about it, it's still a well done companion arc because she's a buddy that feels pretty involved in the story, and in effect adds more permanence to her loss. No more music from her cell, no more pics in the chopper, and as waifu pandering as they were, I kinda do miss those glances at me in the chopper.
More importantly, it kinda does what the failing Meryl in the MGS1 thing failed to do in terms of player feeling loss from his/her actions while playing. This is because Snake quickly got over that death pretty quickly and it eventually got neutered by MGS4.
Here though, the game really drives the point to the player that she is gone for good, and that's not something I do not see a lot nowadays apart from old school JRPGs.
EDIT: I gotta admit though, I might be giving this way more credit than it should simply because again, everyone else in the game simply lacks as much investment in terms of character development and I'd seriously take any sliver of it.
Nah, Snake is fantastic. Plus, I want to see how big that horn gets when I get around to making my nuke.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Big Boss was always an idea, though.
Liquid wanted to emulate 'Big Boss'.
Solidus wanted to emulate Big Boss.
Liquid Ocelot wanted to carry out Big Boss' will.
Hell, the saying 'There can only be one Snake, and one Big Boss' is prevalent throughout the series. And they don't mean one Big Boss as in the actual Big Boss, but more like the idea/icon of Big Boss. The ideology of Big Boss.
Big Boss was always an idea.
Heck, you as a player can earn the 'Big Boss' title by completing a game perfectly. Everyone CAN be Big Boss, it's been ingrained through the MGS series.
The avatar has the horn, too. Haven't made a nuke yet so I don't know if grows, though.
Wouldn't we become.....Super Boss?
But at the end of the day no one was ever able to replicate Big Boss. Even his perfect clones. Big Boss was always a man torn by the manipulation & decisions he had to make. He was misguided, misunderstood, and ultimately came to regret the path he took. Outer Heaven is the idea, not Big Boss. What Liquid wanted to do was to recreate Outer Heaven. Solidus wanted to free the world from the Patriot's control. They idolized the legend of Big Boss. How this fucks that up is showing us ANYONE CAN BE BIG BOSS THROUGH HYPNOTHERAPY. It's so stupid! Why even clone the guy for his soldier genes when anyone can fuckin' be the guy? Hell, he didn't need to be cloned even for idolization purposes. All they had to do was reconstruct someone else's face. That's what MGSV fucks up. It makes Big Boss' impact garbage.
It is in idea though. Half of his accomplishments are because he had help or because the situation was fixed (Boss)
BreezyLimbo
Banned
...? Solid Snake surpassed Big Boss. In a way, so did Ocelot, Solidus, and Liquid, since they set the wheels in motion in such a way that finished the Patriot AI that Big Boss never accomplished.
And you're right about one thing. Big Boss is just a legend. He's a warmonger. Everything else, about him being the perfect soldier(When he was killed by his inferior son), about him being the perfect leader(When he failed during Ground Zeroes, when he wavered during Peace Walker.). Big Boss was idolized, call it a savior complex, but he brought into his own Legend.
I mean....even here we have people defending Big Boss and idolizing him. When he's the bad guy. He's the monster. The warmonger, the kidnapper, the murderer. Big Boss' impact is his legend that outgrew him.
Solid Snake surpassed Big Boss in every way. It's stressed upon that he accomplished everything so despite being the inferior clone. He was also the better person and he knew who he was.
Hey gents what is the quickest way to mission 46, the actual ending of the game.
Can I get it just doing the yellow main missions? Because I really don't like that 10 of the final 19 missions are remixed version of old missions or old missions on a higher difficulty. I get the completionist appeal, but for the sake of moving my narrative forward? That's dumb.
Can I get it just doing the yellow main missions? Because I really don't like that 10 of the final 19 missions are remixed version of old missions or old missions on a higher difficulty. I get the completionist appeal, but for the sake of moving my narrative forward? That's dumb.
This whole series has been revolving around how awesome Big Boss was and the huge impact he had on everyone. To turn that around in the final entry and say he ain't shit, that his ideal and image was much more important than the actual man himself who was overrated by everyone, I kinda like that.
It's like the final Kojima troll.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Solid Snake surpassed Big Boss, yes. Big Boss fell. This we know. Solid Snake stayed on the right path while Big Boss was steered by his emotions because of the trauma of doing what he did at the end of MGS3. Big Boss is still a great soldier, a charismatic leader, and a master of CQC. He accomplished a lot and lost it all due to his downfall. You guys are missing my point; splitting Big Boss' character in two is stupid. His accomplishments in creating Outer Heaven / Zanzibarland were curbed because of this body double thing. Big Boss is human. Of course he made mistakes. Just because MSF was destroyed doesn't make him less of man/soldier.
TyrantGuardian
Member
100% agreed. Fantastic character marred by pointless shitty sexist design/camera angles. I just don't get the point at all. If it's an antithesis to anything it would be Bayonetta who uses sexuality as a statement of power rather than pandering to the viewer.
On another note; I think this game and the story is completely fantastic and the theme of language and how it relates to ethnicity/culture has been somewhat eye-opening to me. I wish people were discussing that more than the silly (but entertaining) twist. Actually putting people in quarantine made me feel like Hitler for a second. As I hadn't had this part spoiled, I wasn't sure if Kikongo was the actual cause or just me being a paranoid crazy person discriminating against certain people on my base. Would I have liked a function to sort by language? Perhaps - but the tedium in sifting through every single one of my 700+ staff members just looking for Kikongo to show up made it feel a lot more personal, whether or not this was actually intended by the developers. If so; this is completely amazing game design. The game pretty much made you an apartheid overseer for a while, though I'm not sure if everyone actually picked up on that subtext or if it was presented well enough. Somehow I think most people don't expect gameplay decisions to relate to the story/themes in this way.
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
Haha, that's pretty great.
Wrestlemania
Banned
So I'm in the endgame now with just a few of the extreme/subsistence/total stealth repeat missions and side ops left to do.
At the moment, the side ops are all pretty samey and don't involve anything much different to the normal missions. There's a few big gaps in the numbers though.
Do they do anything interesting with them or are they all going to be variations on eliminating/extracting/finding blueprints?
At the moment, the side ops are all pretty samey and don't involve anything much different to the normal missions. There's a few big gaps in the numbers though.
Do they do anything interesting with them or are they all going to be variations on eliminating/extracting/finding blueprints?
EVA UNIT 01
Member
I just finished it.
I dont know what the fuck im feeling.
The idea of that switcheroo is great on paper but theres so much shit to sift through in order for it to make sense/be executed properly.
I dont know what the fuck im feeling.
The idea of that switcheroo is great on paper but theres so much shit to sift through in order for it to make sense/be executed properly.
What I really don't understand is the truth cutscene itself.
When does it take place ? In 1995 ? Then why does Venom look exactly the same ?
Why is there a DD logo on the door and then a Outer Heaven one in the mirror ?
If it takes place in Outer Heaven in 1995 ... how come you can listen to tapes about the truth back in 1984 after the mission ?
And your soldiers now seem to be aware you're not big boss ?
The timeline seems to indicate that the real Big Boss created Outer Heaven and Venom sacrificed himself for him.
But the cutscene makes it look like DD became OH...
So many questions ...
When does it take place ? In 1995 ? Then why does Venom look exactly the same ?
Why is there a DD logo on the door and then a Outer Heaven one in the mirror ?
If it takes place in Outer Heaven in 1995 ... how come you can listen to tapes about the truth back in 1984 after the mission ?
And your soldiers now seem to be aware you're not big boss ?
The timeline seems to indicate that the real Big Boss created Outer Heaven and Venom sacrificed himself for him.
But the cutscene makes it look like DD became OH...
So many questions ...
Solid Snake surpassed Big Boss, yes. Big Boss fell. This we know. Solid Snake stayed on the right path while Big Boss was steered by his emotions because of the trauma of doing what he did at the end of MGS3. Big Boss is still a great soldier, a charismatic leader, and a master of CQC. He accomplished a lot and lost it all due to his downfall. You guys are missing my point; splitting Big Boss' character in two is stupid. His accomplishments in creating Outer Heaven / Zanzibarland were curbed because of this body double thing. Big Boss is human. Of course he made mistakes. Just because MSF was destroyed doesn't make him less of man/soldier.
See the thing is he is a good soldier not taking that from him but his legend is more or less fabricated as it's an idea. MGS3 was a fixed fight at the end and he had a lot of people helping him (Eva, Ocelot etc), MSF became what it was and made its name due to Kaz.
Given the right situation, the right story, anyone can be shaped into Snake.
Was it ever explicitly said that The Boss didn't go full force against Big Boss just to throw the fight and die?
To a point. Fighting ability maybe. We all know Raiden wasn't the same as Solid Snake.
WrenchNinja
Member
Yeah, people keep saying the Boss held back in here. Since when was that a thing?
It was said that she was suppose to die by the hands of Naked Snake as part of her mission so that he could be painted as a hero because in the eyes of the world The Boss was a tainted figure after defecting to the Soviet and as such was suppose to be taken out. It was a ruse by the American government so as to avoid taking blame for the nuclear attack (also part of their plan) and also to get their hands on the philosopher's legacy.
That was the start of the legend.
This is completely stupid. Worst design decision in a very long while. I hope they patch her back in soon.
I mean, i field her on missions taking place before i met her, also there is no story mission after 46. So it would only make sense to keep her selectable in the buddy list when replaying missions.
If they want story consistency, just remove her cell from med plat, all good.
I know that, but that doesn't mean The Boss held back. She fulfilled her mission, but that doesn't mean she didn't go full force against him. Hell, none of the Cobra's knew the defection was a ruse. They went full force and still died. For all intents and purposes, The Boss brought her A game to the table and lost to her apprentice. Big Boss didn't like any of that shit because he became the man he did at the expense of his mother figure.
D-Dog must be glitched for me then, because every time I tell him to go stun someone, he stands there like a retard and stares at the enemy soldier as said enemy soldier shoo's him away.
TyrantGuardian
Member
The game has a heavy theme of losing limbs. Quiet by extension became one of your "limbs" in the way you used her. I think it's brilliant. Besides, Wall-Hack Dog is so ridiculously OP it doesn't even matter gameplay-wise really. Just learn to use him with the stun knife. He can take down two people at once, it's crazy!
crazyrabbits
Banned
Technically, all of your buddies are OP depending on how you use them. D-Horse's lean ability can be used to great effect to speed through missions quickly. D-Walker can Fulton-Ballista entire bases, carve up enemies and tranq on command. D-Dog can also Fulton enemies/stun on command. Quiet's simply the most OP of all of them.
I find it hard to believe that this was a deliberate thing, considering how wonky the plotting gets around that point.
I think most of it has to do with The Boss overpowering Snake in every one of their encounters. And in this final battle where now she is actually using her Patriot, after Snake had spent the last few hours fighting Volgin, the Shagohad, running from a platoon of soldiers, and then helping EVA from the motorcycle crash to the airplane, he is suddenly able to overpower her, even though she had handily beaten him again before the fight with Volgin.
There's nothing wrong with the theme of 'the legend being bigger than the man'. We just didn't need another doppelganger fakeout to understand that.
TyrantGuardian
Member
I think it was very deliberate. Why else would you remove a buddy from the player? It's not like it's a glitch that couldn't be fixed. That said, the whole game stinks of "whoops, we went over-budget and have to ship now!" so I'd rather say that's why if feels wonky and unfinished.
Well, you need to be within 30 meters of the enemy for it to work consistently. What I usually do is isolate one enemy range-wise (around 55 meters it seems) and have DD bark at them. Then I go into stealth prone mode while they approach. When they are close enough so that they can't draw their weapons in time I give the command to stun. Ridiculously effective. I even took out the fully armored Zero Sec soldiers around the car in Traitor's Caravan extreme like this even though they were all standing in close proximity to eachother. Great way to deal with enemies who are not tranqable!
The Silver
Member
It isn't and I don't know why people keep saying that.
Snake Eater mission was already accomplished since Boss called in the MIG strike and was going to die no matter what.
She decided to fight Snake of her own volition as the last thing she wanted to do. The whole game she was breaking down Snake's psychological barriers to get HIM to stop holding back. She told him the one thing he lacked was will, it was the last thing she wanted to give him, to have her student surpass her like she always knew he would and to help him move on. Boss holding back at the point is the last thing she would do.
Then Snake learned the truth of course and that all got screwed up.
He was more tame during his early visits with her, though. More in shock/disbelief of what she was doing. Even in the hangar when The Boss and Big Boss fought while Volgin, Ocelot, and Eva were there - Snake overpowered her with CQC. This took The Boss by surprise and then went full force and tossed Snake. Not to mention things got far more desperate at the end. The Boss gave Snake 10 minutes to defeat her before the whole area was going to get firebombed or whatever. I'd say that's some pretty solid motivation.
Well said.
Wait who had the philosopher's legacy then?
I know Eva had half of it and Ocelot had the other half but who had it at that point...obtaining the legacy was one of the reasons for the missions of Operation Snake Eater wasn't it? If they didn't have it at that point then the mission was not complete.
Stoffinator
Member
I just noticed that if you zoom in the window of the helicopter while sitting in it, you will see Snakes true reflection.
I can't express how much I disagree. Quiet like every other buddy is a gameplay mechanic, and if used correctly, then yes, she can be OP.
That doesn't mean we should justify her being taken from the player's hands like this. Some people actually intended to use her exclusively. Buddies are a mechanic, not simply or mostly story elements.
As i said before, if we are to strictly follow story, then we shouldn't be able to use buddies in missions taking place before we could originally use them, we shouldn't be able to replay boss missions, and ultimately, we shouldn't be able to select missions to replay.
But the truth is that the game is designed about replaying missions and taking different approaches each time, and removing 1/4 of the buddies is just stupid.
And Venom shouldn't be able to pop into ACC after being pinned down in the previous mission with the mission ending in TBC.
The loss of limb thing being a reason is just over thought fan theory.
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