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Street Fighter V: Vega Reveal Trailer

fresquito said:
Not a single replay tells one thing that you can do with charge vs normal. Charge is certainlt different... and worse.
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Do you have USF4 on PC? I'll play you right now with any charge character (you can even pick if you want) and you can play any main you want. We'll do a first to 5. If charge characters are so inherently worse, you should win with ease, right?
Skilletor said:
Hey, vulva. :-) <3
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Sup dude, get back home safe and sound after EVO?
 
fresquito said:
So charge is a hurdle that represents a balance factor, right? So how is a restrictive input method a good balancing tool? I could think of a million better ways to make a game more balanced than going for restrictive input methods
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Let's hear three of them
 
fresquito said:
You can't talk about variety when half the cast in SF games are charge characters. I play chars because their moveset, not because their input method, unless the control method is limiting my playstyle, in which case I will go towards characters that are more versatile.


So charge is a hurdle that represents a balance factor, right? So how is a restrictive input method a good balancing tool? I could think of a million better ways to make a game more balanced than going for restrictive input methods.

You're missing a good game in Rising Thunder, a handful of nice ideas and some interesting conceptss that work quite well against what one can think based on theory alone. USFIV is the better game in most every way. That said, SFV NEEDS to use BO3 for ranked matches. BO1 Ranked feels so random in comparison. Shorter and less intruding Supers/Ultras would be welcome as well.
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See, I don't think it's restrictive. No more than a motion, anyway. So that argument falls flat with me. I think it's a move whose motion is inherent in the strengths and weaknesses.


I'll check out rising thunder eventually, but I think it will bore me very quickly, and it has several things in it right now I hate from sf4, so I'll wait for it to leave alpha so as not to out a bad taste in my mouth.

vulva said:
Do you have USF4 on PC? I'll play you right now with any charge character (you can even pick if you want) and you can play any main you want. We'll do a first to 5. If charge characters are so inherently worse, you should win with ease, right?


Sup dude, get back home safe and sound after EVO?
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Yup! Back home. Just had our reception last Saturday. Chilling with the in-laws now. How's life after Vegas for you?
 
I dislike charge motions so every character should appeal to me even though they make balance more interesting since they can have advantages directional motions can't have!
 
Skilletor said:
Yup! Back home. Just had our reception last Saturday. Chilling with the in-laws now. How's life after Vegas for you?
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It's not bad, I haven't touched USF4 since Vegas which feels pretty nice. Otherwise it's just been work and getting ready for my last year of University (finally).

Also plotting my revenge against Xiao Hai
 
vulva said:
Do you have USF4 on PC? I'll play you right now with any charge character (you can even pick if you want) and you can play any main you want. We'll do a first to 5. If charge characters are so inherently worse, you should win with ease, right?
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So we're now talking about who's got it larger now? Great!

I said charge controls are a limiting factor and I hate control limits because I think there're far better ways to balance a game than adding a restrictive control method. I never talked about how good or bad I am (without or without charge controls). I know the ABC of charge controls, from buffering after jumps, to buffering back after D-U, to your regular Sp charge into Super and all that shit. I know how to do it and I can play that to a certain degree. It doesn't mean that it is any good or that I find it enjoyable.

If you're going for wins vs loses, I'd say charge chars tend to do worse in championships?

notworksafe said:
Let's hear three of them
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Damage, startup, recovery, cancellable into Super, invulnerability frames,hitbox, travel speed... Then there's the option to balance what normals offer cancel options into specials, etc, etc. Are you implying non charge chars are not balanced or what?
 
Charge inputs are easier for me than motion inputs.

Your personal experiences are not the same as everyone else's. Stop pretending like your point of view is the only point of view.

The same could be said for a lot of people discussing this game right now.
 
The limitations on charge specials is exactly why I like them. I have these specials that are typically more powerful/versatile than your standard motion special, and it's up to me to manage my charges and make the best of them. There's an added layer there that I enjoy that motion characters won't necessarily have.

Guile is far more fun and appealing to me than Sagat in terms of zoners.
 
fresquito said:
So we're now talking about who's got it larger now? Great!

I said charge controls are a limiting factor and I hate control limits because I think there're far better ways to balance a game than adding a restrictive control method. I never talked about how good or bad I am (without or without charge controls). I know the ABC of charge controls, from buffering after jumps, to buffering back after D-U, to your regular Sp charge into Super and all that shit. I know how to do it and I can play that to a certain degree. It doesn't mean that it is any good or that I find it enjoyable.

If you're going for wins vs loses, I'd say charge chars tend to do worse in championships?
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QxtJFaV.jpg
 
fresquito said:
Does charging makes you feel more manly?

Charging sucks, it forces to play your character in a weird way that you wouldn't need to play had the game no charge mechanics. It doesn't add anything, There's not a single thing that charge controls can do that normal motions can't, but there're lots of things that normal controls can do that charge can't.

You invested lots of time in learning the tricks of charge controls, I'll shed a tear for you, man.
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I certainly feel manly after reading this childish post.
 
JordanKZ said:
More SF2 characters means less chance of SF3 and 4 characters. :C
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Doesn't have to be like this neccessarily..
Keeping in mind that they're coming up with the all-new 1st time 'fight money' & micro-transaction league of legends style. Odds are this game will have more characters slowly getting added in the game.There was a good number of chars in sf,ssf,usf.I think this game is gonna get huge with time.I hope..
 
fresquito said:
So we're now talking about who's got it larger now? Great!

I said charge controls are a limiting factor and I hate control limits because I think there're far better ways to balance a game than adding a restrictive control method. I never talked about how good or bad I am (without or without charge controls). I know the ABC of charge controls, from buffering after jumps, to buffering back after D-U, to your regular Sp charge into Super and all that shit. I know how to do it and I can play that to a certain degree. It doesn't mean that it is any good or that I find it enjoyable.

If you're going for wins vs loses, I'd say charge chars tend to do worse in championships?
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You're saying the input method sucks, I'm saying I prefer it because I find the charge inputs more reliable than command.

Also I bolded a lot of your post pointing out how you're admitting this is subjective to yourself. This isn't some objective fact that one method is better than the other, you're outright stating that it's your opinion.

As for charge chars in championships, Vega (claw) was pretty great in ST. In the current builds of SFV it's pretty much agreed that Bison's been the best so far.

Again, though, you say there's no positive to charge inputs. I say the inputs are easier and more reliable for myself. You can have your own preference, much like I have mine, but why on earth would you wish to eliminate the preferences of others.

You also state that you can name a million better options than charge inputs. Lets hear a few and tell me why they'd be better for someone like me, who likes the physical motion better.
 
fresquito said:
Damage, startup, recovery, cancellable into Super, invulnerability frames,hitbox, travel speed... Then there's the option to balance what normals offer cancel options into specials, etc, etc. Are you implying non charge chars are not balanced or what?
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Yes, those are words. Now explain how you would apply them to Chun Li, the example you provided. Make her equal to the motion characters without removing any of her options and staying within the available mechanics in her game.
 
Charge is easier on a stick, and they provide a different balance perspective in how the characters move work. You don't like it? Cool, there's tons of other characters in the SF franchise who don't use it.
 
vulva said:
You're saying the input method sucks, I'm saying I prefer it because I find the charge inputs more reliable than command.

Also I bolded a lot of your post pointing out how you're admitting this is subjective to yourself. This isn't some objective fact that one method is better than the other, you're outright stating that it's your opinion.

As for charge chars in championships, Vega (claw) was pretty great in ST. In the current builds of SFV it's pretty much agreed that Bison's been the best so far.

Again, though, you say there's no positive to charge inputs. I say the inputs are easier and more reliable for myself. You can have your own preference, much like I have mine, but why on earth would you wish to eliminate the preferences of others.

You also state that you can name a million better options than charge inputs. Lets hear a few and tell me why they'd be better for someone like me, who likes the physical motion better.
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I named other solutions above. I can understand the controls being more reliable, that's a positive I'd give to you. But that's talking about exectution, not about gameplay. I can see how anybody has a preference, I made mine clear enough. But charge is restrictive from a gameplay point of view and all this balance thing doesn't make much sense when you think there're lots of games with different movesets hat don't imply charge and even withing SF there're lots of chars without charge movesets that are all different one to each other. So yes, I think there're better, less limiting to gameplay options. Sorry!
 
fresquito said:
even withing SF there're lots of chars without charge movesets that are all different one to each other.
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and almost all of them have worse recovery than any of the charge characters. We get it, you are bad at the game and being able to breakdown gameplay perks.
 
fresquito said:
I named other solutions above. I can understand the controls being more reliable, that's a positive I'd give to you. But that's talking about exectution, not about gameplay. I can see how anybody has a preference, I made mine clear enough. But charge is restrictive from a gameplay point of view and all this balance thing doesn't make much sense when you think there're lots of games with different movesets hat don't imply charge and even withing SF there're lots of chars without charge movesets that are all different one to each other. So yes, I think there're better, less limiting to gameplay options. Sorry!
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Characters have different movesets therefore charge inputs are bad.

Makes sense.
 
notworksafe said:
Yes, those are words. Now explain how you would apply them to Chun Li, the example you provided. Make her equal to the motion characters without removing any of her options and staying within the available mechanics in her game.
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My option would probably be making c.mk not cancellable into Sp. Then again, it's not like I have studied Chun in and out.

QisTopTier said:
and almost all of them have worse recovery than any of the charge characters. We get it, you are bad at the game and being able to breakdown gameplay perks.
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What? There're plenty of charge movements far more punisheable than QCF. I think you're getting a bit carried away here. You're thinking Sonic Boom and applying it to every char in the game that works with charge mechanics.
 
fresquito said:
I named other solutions above. I can understand the controls being more reliable, that's a positive I'd give to you. But that's talking about exectution, not about gameplay. I can see how anybody has a preference, I made mine clear enough. But charge is restrictive from a gameplay point of view and all this balance thing doesn't make much sense when you think there're lots of games with different movesets hat don't imply charge and even withing SF there're lots of chars without charge movesets that are all different one to each other. So yes, I think there're better, less limiting to gameplay options. Sorry!
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You didn't list anything. You said fighting game related words that made no sense. "cancellable into Super" what cancellable in to super?

Also how on earth is execution not related to gameplay? They inherently go hand in hand.

I don't mean this as an insult, but I get the feeling english isn't your first language since many of your ideas and suggestions aren't coming out in a clear or comprehensible fashion, but unfortunately myself (and many others here) can't really make heads or tails of what you're saying or suggesting.

You don't like charge characters, we understand that. Honestly though, you lose me after that.
 
fresquito said:
That's bullshit and you know it. There're plenty of ways to balance these other than their input method. I suggest you to try Rising Thunder (and anybody that thinks charge is good) and you'll understand why chars should be played on their moveset, not their input method.

Sonic boom is all you have, then explain me why Chun's shitty balls are charge? Awful recovery, awful damage, awful range. What are they balancing exactly? Charge motions are there to contempt charge fanatics. Not to balance anything out.
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I wouldn't have posted it if I didn't believe it to be true, but I see there's no point in reasoning on this topic. Also, beaten above.
 
fresquito said:
I named other solutions above. I can understand the controls being more reliable, that's a positive I'd give to you. But that's talking about exectution, not about gameplay. I can see how anybody has a preference, I made mine clear enough. But charge is restrictive from a gameplay point of view and all this balance thing doesn't make much sense when you think there're lots of games with different movesets hat don't imply charge and even withing SF there're lots of chars without charge movesets that are all different one to each other. So yes, I think there're better, less limiting to gameplay options. Sorry!
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But....I don't feel restricted........
 
I don't like something so they should change it even though lots of people like it and most people who don't like it think it's fine anyway.
 
I believe Combofiend stated that the reason Chun Li's fireball are a charge motion is because of her dominant Fierce punch (ie she could easily move around doing both footsies and throw fireballs). At least that's what Ultrachen were saying in their previous video.

It's no surprise that charge characters usually have excellent normals as well. Well unless you are Dee Jay then you are just ass.


And charge has some additional advantages over regular motions like it's way easier to do an auto correct Flash Kick.
 
fresquito said:
What? There're plenty of charge movements far more punisheable than QCF. I think you're getting a bit carried away here. You're thinking Sonic Boom and applying it to every char in the game that works with charge mechanics.
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I'm not, two the typical perks are.

The move either recovers faster or the move can be activated faster on reaction to something.

A flash kick for instance will always come out faster than an SRK if it's stored up.

Charge character combos are some of the easiest in fighting games. For those two reasons.
 
The use of slot will be redeemed if he ends up not being charge character. Also, salty tears.

CoyoteSpitfire said:
Who cares?

Vega, along with the rest of the SF2 cast, was in SF4. Give someone else some time to shine before this game is inevitably bogged down with the rest of the SF4 roster.
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+10000
 
fresquito said:
I named other solutions above. I can understand the controls being more reliable, that's a positive I'd give to you. But that's talking about exectution, not about gameplay. I can see how anybody has a preference, I made mine clear enough. But charge is restrictive from a gameplay point of view and all this balance thing doesn't make much sense when you think there're lots of games with different movesets hat don't imply charge and even withing SF there're lots of chars without charge movesets that are all different one to each other. So yes, I think there're better, less limiting to gameplay options. Sorry!
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None of those things influence the gameplay of said character in the ways that using charge inputs do. You may not like them - I don't think you're alone in not enjoying charge character - but that does not make them a poor design choice. The receipt is actually pretty straightforward in this case, especially when you look at the actual design goals for any given character in a fighting game.
 
Dahbomb said:
I believe Combofiend stated that the reason Chun Li's fireball are a charge motion is because of her dominant Fierce punch (ie she could easily move around doing both footsies and throw fireballs). At least that's what Ultrachen were saying in their previous video.

It's no surprise that charge characters usually have excellent normals as well. Well unless you are Dee Jay then you are just ass.


And charge has some additional advantages over regular motions like it's way easier to do an auto correct Flash Kick.
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Yeah, her fireballs are a charge input because she already has fast long range pokes. This makes her viable at a further distance to do the following:
play a zoning game which allows her to still apply some pressure from full screen without it being too powerful in combination with her fast/ranged normals
counter fireballs without forcing her to do something that would leave her vulnerable (jumping) or taking chip damage from blocking
build meter from a ranged special

If her fireballs were better along with her insane normals, she'd dominate from full screen and it'd be almost impossible for someone to get in, not dissimilar to dhalsim's fireballs, though his slower speed can actually work to an advantage in traps.
 
It's not just frame data. Charge moves often get hit/hurtbox perks that give them much more priority over other moves

A Flash Kick is way less likely to trade than a Shoryuken and it takes way less effort to make it autocorrect
 
vulva said:
You didn't list anything. You said fighting game related words that made no sense. "cancellable into Super" what cancellable in to super?

Also how on earth is execution not related to gameplay? They inherently go hand in hand.

I don't mean this as an insult, but I get the feeling english isn't your first language since many of your ideas and suggestions aren't coming out in a clear or comprehensible fashion, but unfortunately myself (and many others here) can't really make heads or tails of what you're saying or suggesting.

You don't like charge characters, we understand that. Honestly though, you lose me after that.
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Yes, English is not my first language. It's clear I'm not making much sense here with whatever I'm saying. Something's clearly lost in translation. Sorry. I'll stop it here because I can't elaborate my argument in a foreign language properly it seems.

Professor Beef said:
Yes, you've made it painfully clear you don't study.
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I'm wiling to bet on my English (as bad as it can be) being better than your Spanish or your Catalan. But hey, congrats on your cheap shot!
 
I guess speaking of charge moves the pro/con tradeoff was pretty clear at least in terms of SF2 and older games where the systems were less complex. So there may be ways to balance the same moves in newer games with different motions, but it's not easy. At this point when a character is very much defined by the charge moveset, it becomes harder to break that tradition, such as with Guile. But yes, in general, charge-based movesets allow a different style of zoning due to different properties, so it adds variety.

How is DeeJay in Omega mode?
 
I don't really understand all this hate about My Vega!! & I even see people putting useless BIRDIE before him.Like really??
Just because ya'll hate to confront a good Vega online because you still don't know how to defend even after 6 years in SF4, means he sux?
I get the fact that u're hating because your main is still not revealed or mainly sf3 chars like Urien the spammer who had only 1 setup,all day everyday, but this doesn't mean shit! Vega, on top of all, is A CLASSIC! HE DESERVES TO BE HERE.ALWAYS! ya'll complaining about him are noobs or just haters by nature.i even read some fellas complaining bout him taking A SPOT.A GODDAMN SPOT! Now I still have to read somebody complaining about Hakan still not showing up! Stop bitching!
By the way, with this post I'm takin the time to post a set I had 3 years ago with one of the best Ibuki players in PC. If anybody wants to challenge my Vega, just add me. I'm a northeast US player now.
Check this out:

https://youtu.be/W8LuFGgkz0o
 
notworksafe said:
He meant you don't study Chun, not English. Maybe not the best moment to brag about language comprehension.
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Yeah, no. My English is not great, but I'm not stupid. You don't study is general, what you're saying he meant is not. So I don't think I'm bragging about anything here.
 
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