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[KLatin Scelus]

My friend sent me this, welp, I can't stop laughing

A Ridley & Plankton team combo...

Bikini Bottom is fucked.

 

[Revven]

Lol drama over a game

Isn't this GAF in general?... There's drama over every game on here in the world... lol.

 

[MrSaturn99]

My friend sent me this, welp, I can't stop laughing

ahahahahaha omg

Let's be honest. At times, the smash community can be it's own worst enemy.

Sad but true. Let's all listen to D1's excellent twitter quote:

Understand this, Smash 4 won't kill Melee. Only Melee can kill Melee. Support your game, end the hate to others. Trust my words.

 

[Wreck-It Ralph]

I wish Nintendo would just give the Melee crowd exactly what they want so they'd finally shut up.

- Melee in HD
- Rebalance characters so the game isn't dominated by the 5 fastest characters
- Online play
- Have a "neutral" version of every stage

Basicallly SSBM HD Remix.

I know they'll never do it though.

 

[Kriken]

D1 is advocating for both games to live side-by-side, not what happened with Brawl/Melee where Melee died right when Brawl came out because everyone and their mom played Brawl instead -- wanting to give it a chance. Then these same people wouldn't come back to Melee because Melee tournaments weren't as popular, only diehard people like Scar, Mang0, Armada, Hungrybox, D1, etc. kept the game alive and the general skill ceiling that was growing even beyond 2008. And during that period, those same people disrespected Brawl players and denounced Brawl, insulted it, entered tournaments to prove how campy it was, etc etc.

He is trying to get people who are disrespecting others for the game they like to play to understand that kind of behavior is unacceptable and the right choice you should be making is supporting the game you like to play and it will continue to live on as a tournament game and respecting people regardless of the game they play.

He can only say so much in 150 words...

Sorry if it came across as me insulting D1, that was not the case, I'm all in favor for what he said. It was more what Leffen said at first leading to that, it was more me facepalming at him implying D1 would not look at Smash 4 objectively because Smash 4 is his new 'job'

 

[theprodigy]

Well, this is a complete reverse of the SSBM Shrinking Yoshi glitch.

do it enough times and they just die from the blast zones!

lmao

 

[Makai]

I wish I could find more credible commentary on character placement. I've kept my list small since I have so much uncertainty about most of the cast. Included here are characters I think will only jump or drop one rank at most.

S: Sheik, ZSS
A: Villager, Duck Hunt Dog, Bowser Jr
B: Mario, Fox, Pikachu
C: Bowser, Little Mac, Falco, Samus, Doctor Mario
D: Captain Falcon, Luigi
E: Mega Man

 

[PadWarrior]

Let's be honest. At times, the smash community can be its own worst enemy.

It is 99 percent of the time. It's very toxic

 

[Revven]

Sorry if it came across as me insulting D1, that was not the case, I'm all in favor for what he said. It was more what Leffen said at first leading to that, it was more me facepalming at him implying D1 would not look at Smash 4 objectively because Smash 4 is his new 'job'

Oh, I see. The thing was you were linking to D1's tweet rather than leffen's so that confused me lol.

 

[PreyingShark]

Leffen's being an outrageous dick again?

Why am I not surprised?

 

[theprodigy]

Leffen's being an outrageous dick again?

Why am I not surprised?

guy who got banned from Swedish tournaments for a whole year is a dick?

whoa

 

[mStudios]

The project we're working on it's gonna change the Smash Competitive Community, bringing new players to the competitive scene, new tournaments and more.

And yes, it'll be only for Smash 4 3DS/WiiU.

Screenshot this shit if you want.

 

[Sponge]

I don't know, people are overblowing the hate on Smash 4 a bit, maybe out of misplaced fear that their game is going to die out (never going to happen with the way the series is now handled), maybe it's because they let themselves get hyped and ended up disappointed by the final release (Hello me!) and maybe it's just a little bit of elitism that their game requires more technical skill or something, which seems to be what a lot of people want to believe.

I get that people still enjoy playing Melee. There's nothing wrong with liking one game over another.

Lots of people still play older Street Fighter games or Marvel 2. I'm speaking for myself when I saw I'd enjoy seeing Smash 4 at EVO. From what I've played it of the 3DS demo it doesn't seem to be as bad as Brawl was competitively. I can't really speak for why anyone else is wanting new blood. A lot of the hate could very well be misplaced.

I'm not wanting people that enjoy Melee to stop playing the game, but I don't want it to keep Smash 4 at having a shot at EVO when the Wii U version isn't even out yet.

 

[Neoxon]

I wish Nintendo would just give the Melee crowd exactly what they want so they'd finally shut up.

- Melee in HD
- Rebalance characters so the game isn't dominated by the 5 fastest characters
- Online play
- Have a "neutral" version of every stage

Basicallly SSBM HD Remix.

I know they'll never do it though.

When doing a re-release of a fighting game, NEVER rebalance the game. Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix tried that, & it didn't end well.

 

[chaosblade]

I wish Nintendo would just give the Melee crowd exactly what they want so they'd finally shut up.

- Melee in HD
- Rebalance characters so the game isn't dominated by the 5 fastest characters
- Online play
- Have a "neutral" version of every stage

Basicallly SSBM HD Remix.

I know they'll never do it though.

Nobody wants that though, the whole idea is that people want a new Smash game that is as competitive-friendly as Melee is, not Literally Melee™. Brawl was not that game, and there are some serious concerns that Smash 4 is not that game either. Since Sakurai isn't interested in listening to their opinions or criticisms it's basically going to be a perpetual cycle.

 

[Kriken]

Oh, I see. The thing was you were linking to D1's tweet rather than leffen's so that confused me lol.

Well that was the one that showed up on my timeline, but fair enough I should've linked the first tweet and said I supported D1's tweet

 

[JoeInky]

Ugh. We're never gonna move on from Fox vs Falco are we?

Just have both at Evo or something.

I truly hope they have both at EVO but I don't think it can be supported at all.

I don't know if I'd just want Smash 4 representing the Smash series by itself in a competitive environment at the moment, I could see Smash getting completely dropped from EVO if Smash 4 turns out as boring as I'm fearing it might, I already have no interest in watching others play Smash 4.

Lol drama over a game

I know you have me on ignore, but I really hate your "durr it's only a game" comments that seem to keep cropping up.

For one things it's an incredibly dismissive and pointless comment that can be used for any level of passion for a game whether you agree with the opinion or not.

I mean, why are you getting excited about Smash 4 at all, it's only a game!

Second of all, Smash isn't just a game for a lot of people, it's the game. It's been pivotal in many people's lives, as sad as that may sound to you. I played Melee non-stop whilst I lived with a violently abusive mother, Smash is anything but "just a game" to me, and I'm sure there are lots of other people with similar experiences and views for what Smash means to them.

And it's not as if they can just go and get the same thing somewhere else, it's completely unique as a franchise.

I just want an accessible, competitive-friendly game that's fun to play and exciting to watch without a ridiculous amount of small boneheaded decisions.

 

[Makai]

When doing a re-release of a fighting game, NEVER rebalance the game. Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix tried that, & it didn't end well.

On the flip side, Project M has had good reception

Then again, they cheat by rebalancing constantly.

 

[TheSlySoul]

It is 99 percent of the time. It's very toxic

Yeah, I think Nintendo should try to make Melee HD to go with the new Smash next time to avoid the cycle again.

 

[theprodigy]

Lol drama over a game

-posted on neogaf.com

 

[Neoxon]

On the flip side, Project M has had good reception

Then again, they cheat by rebalancing constantly.

Project M is a mod of Brawl to give the game Melee-esque mechanics. What's being proposed is that they re-release Melee with a rebalance.

 

[Hatchtag]

I kinda hope Little Mac is more low-tier just because Little Mac dittos are never, ever exciting.

 

[Violet_0]

S: Sheik, ZSS
A: Villager, Duck Hunt Dog, Bowser Jr
B: Mario, Fox, Pikachu
C: Bowser, Little Mac, Falco, Samus, Doctor Mario
D: Captain Falcon, Luigi
E: Mega Man

Bowser Jr. hasn't performed well at tournaments so far (in fact, he's rarely ever played) whereas Little Mac is a popular pick

 

[Ricky 7]

The project we're working on it's gonna change the Smash Competitive Community, bringing new players to the competitive scene, new tournaments and more.

And yes, it'll be only for Smash 4 3DS/WiiU.

Screenshot this shit if you want.

Yeah I agree, I have no idea why people worship the Melee players. Just forget about them and they will become irrelevant over time.

 

[Makai]

Bowser Jr. hasn't performed well at tournaments so far (in fact, he's rarely ever played) whereas Little Mac is popular pick

You're referring to invitationals dominated by people who haven't played the game before. Character preference is a huge bias.

 

[Neoxon]

People are already dismissing Smash 4? You'd think the FGC would wait longer before condemning the game.

 

[Crayolan]

I wish Nintendo would just give the Melee crowd exactly what they want so they'd finally shut up.

- Melee in HD
- Rebalance characters so the game isn't dominated by the 5 fastest characters
- Online play
- Have a "neutral" version of every stage

Basicallly SSBM HD Remix.

I know they'll never do it though.

I don't want an HD Melee, SD Melee works just fine for me.

I want a game with Melee-esque mechanics that also has all the great things added in Brawl and beyond (music, characters, etc). Project M does this for me, so Smash 4 having issues and/or mechanics I don't like isn't that big a deal.

 

[MrSaturn99]

If anything, I've actually found use for game drama. Without the Bayonetta 2 backlash, I don't know if I wouldn't have checked out the original game as quickly as I did.

I played Melee non-stop whilst I lived with a violently abusive mother, Smash is anything but "just a game" to me, and I'm sure there are lots of other people with similar experiences and views for what Smash means to them.

My condolences. I'm glad it was able to help you through a rough time.

 

[NotLiquid]

I truly hope they have both at EVO but I don't think it can be supported at all.

I don't know if I'd just want Smash 4 representing the Smash series by itself in a competitive environment at the moment, I could see Smash getting completely dropped from EVO if Smash 4 turns out as boring as I'm fearing it might, I already have no interest in watching others play Smash 4.

EVO isn't going to accommodate a major tournament for both games. Smash 4 is practically guaranteed at least one year after the relatively major initiative experienced from both Nintendo and the competitive community. Melee will probably be relegated to side tournaments moving onwards. The best case scenario here is that Nintendo sees all of this as an opportunity to further forward the scene and they'll become a regular sponsor, meaning they're guaranteed shows (much like WB and Microsoft sponsoring EVO and always getting spots for Mortal Kombat/Injustice and Killer Instinct).

Not a lot of people are going to like the change if that's what happens of course but sometimes changing things up and adapting attracts brand new audiences into the scene that really set the stage for future generations and that really is what the FGC is all about.

 

[mStudios]

Nobody wants that though, the whole idea is that people want a new Smash game that is as competitive-friendly as Melee is, not Literally Melee™. Brawl was not that game, and there are some serious concerns that Smash 4 is not that game either. Since Sakurai isn't interested in listening to their opinions or criticisms it's basically going to be a perpetual cycle.

That's not true and he never said that. He has stated several times that he didn't like how Melee turned out and he wasnt going to make another Smash Bros like Melee.

That's waaaay different from what you just stated.

 

[rekameohs]

People are already dismissing Smash 4? You'd think the FGC would wait longer before condemning the game.

The vocal Melee fans are worse than genwunners, it was to be expected.

 

[Clefargle]

Smash 4 isn't really a middle ground, it's more like Brawl without some of the things that made Brawl bad.

Anyway, I think the people who want Literally Melee™ are a minority, most people just want something that builds on what Melee did well for the competitive scene. To put it simply, gameplay that rewards good offense, plus more neutral stage options. In fact, most probably want a suitable new Smash game to at least go alongside Melee/PM, that's why the so many competitive players were anticipating the game enough to import it, and it's why many are so critical. They don't complain because they want to hate it, they complain because they want to love it.

It's not about wants, it's about expectations. How did the competitive community delude itself into expecting Smash 4 to be PM2 or some shit? The writing was on the wall that this game would be a speedier and more diverse and balanced brawl with some new mechanics. The offensive play is still there, it's just off stage. Kills come more from offstage risky moves than edge hogging and on stage smashes. That's different from Melee and brawl, and that's just fine.

 

[Revven]

When doing a re-release of a fighting game, NEVER rebalance the game. Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix tried that, & it didn't end well.

Could always just start from the PAL version of Melee, which is actually much better balanced but sadly isn't widely available to US players. Though, if they started from PAL they would have to undue some of the unnecessary nerfs (like Ganondorf getting a nerfed Fair...)

Even with a nerf like that it's better than NTSC Melee by a long shot.

 

[PreyingShark]

guy who got banned from Swedish tournaments for a whole year is a dick?

whoa

Yeah, it's shocking!

...Seriously though, Leffen claims that Smash 4 is worse than Brawl. While I'll wait until I get to play the game myself to make that determination, I think it's a bit hasty to conclude that this game is worse than a game that had a fuckton of 0-to-KOs due to poorly implemented mechanics. I mean, tripping doesn't really matter that much in why Brawl is bad when you consider that the game had a bunch of broken shit.

Smash 4 seems to fix CGs and locks so I think there's a good chance I might prefer Smash 4 over Brawl. We'll see, though.

 

[jaydogg691]

Looking to buy a 2 ds. Any good bundles out there

I just traded in a lot junk and bought myself the Sea Green bundle which includes Mario Kart 7(digital download). I really didn't want the game and just wanted to get the system itself, but didn't want to get the blue/red black models. $130 for the bundle, but only payed $10 with all the traded ins. $100 for the base system which isn't bad, especially if you're only getting it for one game.

 

[JoeInky]

Yeah, I think Nintendo should try to make Melee HD to go with the new Smash next time to avoid the cycle again.

Or they could force Sakurai to actually consider balancing the game around competitive play whilst still keeping all the aspects for other audiences.

Or just make Smash joint Directors and let Sakurai handle content whilst someone more interested in working on the game mechanics does so.


Anything that gives us the outcome of a game that is actually for everyone, I don't want Melee again, I want them to make a new Smash game that's as fun as Melee was, it's not the be all and end all, it's just the best we've had so far in terms of game mechanics.

 

[Het_Nkik]

When doing a re-release of a fighting game, NEVER rebalance the game. Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix tried that, & it didn't end well.

But I thought both KOF98 UM and KOF2002 UM were preferred over the originals.

 

[SirPainsalot]

My friend sent me this, welp, I can't stop laughing

Lol holy shit

 

[Makai]

Joe, would you be satisfied if blastzones were shrunk? That seems to be the main complaint I've heard from various people. Me - I'd ask for more hitstun.

 

[-Horizon-]

My friend sent me this, welp, I can't stop laughing

Spongebob references are top tier stuff.

 

[theprodigy]

Yeah, it's shocking!

...Seriously though, Leffen claims that Smash 4 is worse than Brawl. While I'll wait until I get to play the game myself to make that determination, I think it's a bit hasty to conclude that this game is worse than a game that had a fuckton of 0-to-KOs due to poorly implemented mechanics. I mean, tripping doesn't really matter that much in why Brawl is bad when you consider that the game had a bunch of broken shit.

Smash 4 seems to fix CGs and locks so I think there's a good chance I might prefer Smash 4 over Brawl. We'll see, though.

It's worse cause his main Diddy Kong isn't top tier any more.

Kappa

 

[mStudios]

Or they could force Sakurai to actually consider balancing the game around competitive play whilst still keeping all the aspects for other audiences.

Or just make Smash joint Directors and let Sakurai handle content whilst someone more interested in working on the game mechanics does so.


Anything that gives us the outcome of a game that is actually for everyone, I don't want Melee again, I want them to make a new Smash game that's as fun as Melee was, it's not the be all and end all, it's just the best we've had so far in terms of game mechanics.

Maybe not you, but most Melee players:

"I don't want melee, but I want:"
-WaveDashing
-L-Canceling
-Same Speed
-And any other crap that melee has.

To my language that translate as: "I want another Melee with more Characters"

 

[Neoxon]

The vocal Melee fans are worse than genwunners, it was to be expected.

So Smash 4 is already dead on arrival. A shame, I was hoping to see it at EVO this coming year.

 

[PreyingShark]

It's worse cause his main Diddy Kong isn't top tier any more.

Kappa

Sounds about right.

 

[Hatchtag]

Joe, would you be satisfied if blastzones were shrunk? That seems to be the main complaint I've heard from various people. Me - I'd ask for more hitstun.

My main complaint would be that shielding and rolling seems a bit too effective. Such defensive play can just get really boring after a short while.

 

[The Bankslammer]

i wouldn't worry about the possibility of smash 4 not being at evo lol

there's probably going to be quite the fallout when melee is side tournament only though

 

[TheSlySoul]

Anything that gives us the outcome of a game that is actually for everyone, I don't want Melee again, I want them to make a new Smash game that's as fun as Melee was, it's not the be all and end all, it's just the best we've had so far in terms of game mechanics.

I would also like a sequel to Star Fox 64 that stays true to the original game as well. I do not hate Star Fox Assualt, Command, or Adventures for existing. That is why I find it silly for people to hate on Brawl and 3DS/Wii U. I understand your desire, but all I am asking is to be rational.

 

[Neoxon]

i wouldn't worry about the possibility of smash 4 not being at evo lol

there's probably going to be quite the fallout when melee is side tournament only though

There would be riots in the streets. I'd say do both, but that scenario isn't likely.

 

[ffdgh]

Sounds about right.

That's not red yoshi Greninja.

 

[chaosblade]

That's not true and he never said that. He has stated several times that he didn't like how Melee turned out and he wasnt going to make another Smash Bros like Melee.

That's waaaay different from what you just stated.

How exactly is that any different? He regrets that Melee got the tournament following it did because that supposedly scares away casual players (???). And he even made that ridiculous comment about how he didn't want to make a Smash a tournament game with the "complex inputs" that it would require.

That in and of itself demonstrates how little attention he pays, nobody said "no wavedashing? no SHFFL? I'm out."

It's not about wants, it's about expectations. How did the competitive community delude itself into expecting Smash 4 to be PM2 or some shit? The writing was on the wall that this game would be a speedier and more diverse and balanced brawl with some new mechanics. The offensive play is still there, it's just off stage. Kills come more from offstage risky moves than edge hogging and on stage smashes. That's different from Melee and brawl, and that's just fine.

They hoped it wouldn't have the issues Brawl had. Some are gone, some aren't, and there are questions about how the new mechanics are going to impact the metagame. If the game is still campy and defensive I don't think it's going to have long term success with the competitive community.

To be fair, I don't have the full game and don't know how it's going to shape up over time, maybe it will be fine.