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Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition | Hype Thread | We're Really Feeling It

jshackles

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
-Arcadia- said:
See, I don’t get that. Why would it need to be recreated? It’s fine as is, and many, many other games have shown that Wii U to Switch ports are very doable and profitable, even niche and third party games.

While I understand that porting isn’t always the simple process it appears to be, especially for a game of this enormity, the answer still makes no sense to the point where I wonder if something wasn’t lost in translation, either in the question, or the answer.

The way he’s talking, seems like a remake.
Click to expand...
The Switch and WiiU have vastly different software architecture though. For a straight port, you would essentially need to re-write the game's code from scratch but you'd be able to at least import the existing art assets. Even this version of Xenoblade is essentially a retrofit of the first game's art assets (with a few upgrades) onto the Xenoblade 2 Torna engine, so as to save time in not having to rewrite absolutely everything from scratch. But even a project the size of Xenoblade 1 DE would have taken a significant amount of man-hours to accomplish.

Xenoblade Chronicles X is a much bigger game than this one in almost every way. Probably the biggest WiiU game ever created for the system. Even if they were able to retrofit that game onto the same engine, there would be a massive amount of QA work that would need to be done. I think the quote from the article is probably correct - it really just comes down to money. They don't feel like they'd be able to recoup their time on porting the game.

Of course that interview was also a few years ago, and things have changed pretty significantly since. It's possible that if this game sells above expectations and further pushes their Xenoblade branding (ie. more people buying Xenoblade 2) then maybe they're reconsider. We can only hope.
 
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-Arcadia-

-Arcadia-

Banned
jshackles said:
The Switch and WiiU have vastly different software architecture though. For a straight port, you would essentially need to re-write the game's code from scratch but you'd be able to at least import the existing art assets. Even this version of Xenoblade is essentially a retrofit of the first game's art assets (with a few upgrades) onto the Xenoblade 2 Torna engine, so as to save time in not having to rewrite absolutely everything from scratch. But even a project this size would have taken a significant amount of man-hours to accomplish.

Xenoblade Chronicles X is a much bigger game than this one in almost every way. Probably the biggest WiiU game ever created for the system. Even if they were able to retrofit that game onto the same engine, there would be a massive amount of QA work that would need to be done. I think the quote from the article is probably correct - it really just comes down to money. They don't feel like they'd be able to recoup their time on porting the game.

Of course that interview was also a few years ago, and things have changed pretty significantly since. It's possible that if this game sells above expectations and further pushes their Xenoblade branding (ie. more people buying Xenoblade 2) then maybe they're reconsider. We can only hope.
Click to expand...

We haven’t really seen this be a significant obstacle for other games, or even mentioned as such, though. I would presume the internal Wii U to Switch porting tools to be quite capable at this time.

In comparison, large swathes of this game needed to be recreated wholesale, and others generationally updated. It’s very strange to tackle a project like this right after making those comments.

Agreed on sales. If this game strikes it big, and Switch is red-hot, the door may be open to a lot more things.
 
jshackles

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
-Arcadia- said:
We haven’t really seen this be a significant obstacle for other games, or even mentioned as such, though. I would presume the internal Wii U to Switch porting tools to be quite capable at this time.

In comparison, large swathes of this game needed to be recreated wholesale, and others generationally updated. It’s very strange to tackle a project like this right after making those comments.

Agreed on sales. If this game strikes it big, and Switch is red-hot, the door may be open to a lot more things.
Click to expand...
A huge number of first party WiiU games that have been ported already though have been significantly less complex than XCX. If the internal WiiU to Switch porting tools were as capable and robust as you think they should be, it seems silly that Nintendo didn't port/re-release Paper Mario Color Splash a few months ago to hype everyone up for the new game. Or with Breath of the Wild's huge success and the sequel most likely being pushed to next year (or beyond) why don't they tide us over with Twilight Princess or Wind Waker HD? It seems like we might be getting Pikman 3 or Super Mario World 3D, but even those are still nowhere near the scope of a project like XCX.

All of the above games barely use the WiiU's game pad mechanics. Xenoblade Chronicles X relies heavily on the WiiU's game pad, which would necessitate a lot of the menu code being scrapped and revamped for a port like this. In addition, Nintendo has a heavy focus on quality (which is a good thing) which means QA efforts are usually pretty stringent on these first party studios. For a game with the breadth and scope of XCX that could mean thousands to tens of thousands of man hours even if the tools they used to port the game were 100% perfect.

I'd obviously be all for a Xenoblade Chronicles X port and I really hope it happens! But I also somewhat understand the hurdles that they would face in porting the game to the Switch and I fear that because of that it might not ever happen.
 
Quezacolt

Quezacolt

Member
-Arcadia- said:
We haven’t really seen this be a significant obstacle for other games, or even mentioned as such, though. I would presume the internal Wii U to Switch porting tools to be quite capable at this time.

In comparison, large swathes of this game needed to be recreated wholesale, and others generationally updated. It’s very strange to tackle a project like this right after making those comments.

Agreed on sales. If this game strikes it big, and Switch is red-hot, the door may be open to a lot more things.
Click to expand...
i think one of the aspects that would causa more issues is the stuff that was done with the gamepad. Those would probably need to be redone with menus, making the experience less enjoyable.
 
-Arcadia-

-Arcadia-

Banned
jshackles said:
A huge number of first party WiiU games that have been ported already though have been significantly less complex than XCX. If the internal WiiU to Switch porting tools were as capable and robust as you think they should be, it seems silly that Nintendo didn't port/re-release Paper Mario Color Splash a few months ago to hype everyone up for the new game. Or with Breath of the Wild's huge success and the sequel most likely being pushed to next year (or beyond) why don't they tide us over with Twilight Princess or Wind Waker HD? It seems like we might be getting Pikman 3 or Super Mario World 3D, but even those are still nowhere near the scope of a project like XCX.

All of the above games barely use the WiiU's game pad mechanics. Xenoblade Chronicles X relies heavily on the WiiU's game pad, which would necessitate a lot of the menu code being scrapped and revamped for a port like this. In addition, Nintendo has a heavy focus on quality (which is a good thing) which means QA efforts are usually pretty stringent on these first party studios. For a game with the breadth and scope of XCX that could mean thousands to tens of thousands of man hours even if the tools they used to port the game were 100% perfect.

I'd obviously be all for a Xenoblade Chronicles X port and I really hope it happens! But I also somewhat understand the hurdles that they would face in porting the game to the Switch and I fear that because of that it might not ever happen.
Click to expand...
Quezacolt said:
i think one of the aspects that would causa more issues is the stuff that was done with the gamepad. Those would probably need to be redone with menus, making the experience less enjoyable.
Click to expand...

Does it get more complex than BotW? A port of that was managed in the middle of active development. Likewise, Mario Kart 8 and others, are hardly a pittance in terms of complexity. Color Splash is outright a disliked game, and similarly Nintendo was criticized in 2018 for port overload, and has eased a bit off since then.

Also, we consistently see generation-jumping ports and remasters of similarly complex games on other platforms — if it were truly difficult and budget blasting, would the practice be so ubiquitous, even for small/less successful games, and mostly handled by relatively tiny port teams and outside developers?

I just don’t see these hurdles in that magnitude that they were described in that interview. Either something was seriously lost in translation, or Takahashi is assuming an absolute shoestring budget.

Similarly, I’ve yet to see a GamePad idea that wasn’t easily translated. Even the more ambitious ones, that everybody said could lose something, have popped up just fine on other platforms.
 
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Quezacolt

Quezacolt

Member
-Arcadia- said:
Does it get more complex than BotW? A port of that was managed in the middle of active development. Likewise, Mario Kart 8 and others, are hardly a pittance in terms of complexity. Color Splash is outright a disliked game, and similarly Nintendo was criticized in 2018 for port overload, and has eased a bit off since then.

Also, we consistently see generation-jumping ports and remasters of similarly complex games on other platforms — if it were truly difficult and budget blasting, would the practice be so ubiquitous, even for small/less successful games, and mostly handled by relatively tiny port teams and outside developers?

I just don’t see these hurdles in that magnitude that they were described in that interview. Either something was seriously lost in translation, or Takahashi is assuming an absolute shoestring budget.

Similarly, I’ve yet to see a GamePad idea that wasn’t easily translated. Even the more ambitious ones, that everybody said could lose something, have popped up just fine on other platforms.
Click to expand...
BotW had it's gamepad functionalities removed, only the gyro, wich the switch has, was kept.. But yeah, i think some stuff was lost in trnaslation, that "re-create" part makes no sense at all.
 
jshackles

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
-Arcadia- said:
Does it get more complex than BotW? A port of that was managed in the middle of active development. Likewise, Mario Kart 8 and others, are hardly a pittance in terms of complexity. Color Splash is outright a disliked game, and similarly Nintendo was criticized in 2018 for port overload, and has eased a bit off since then.

Also, we consistently see generation-jumping ports and remasters of similarly complex games on other platforms — if it were truly difficult and budget blasting, would the practice be so ubiquitous, even for small/less successful games, and mostly handled by relatively tiny port teams and outside developers?

I just don’t see these hurdles in that magnitude that they were described in that interview. Either something was seriously lost in translation, or Takahashi is assuming an absolute shoestring budget.

Similarly, I’ve yet to see a GamePad idea that wasn’t easily translated. Even the more ambitious ones, that everybody said could lose something, have popped up just fine on other platforms.
Click to expand...
I would say that a lot of your comparisons are apples to oranges. I'd consider Breath of the Wild to a fringe case, because the Switch version is more than a simple port and was instead mostly developed along side the WiiU version. A lot of non-Nintendo console games the past few generations have been designed and developed for PC or are using an engine like Unreal that makes it easy to export your finished product on multiple platforms (which now includes the Switch). The WiiU being what it was last gen was the inverse to this very problem and why there weren't many 3rd party games released for it even though a lot of games could have theoretically run just fine on the hardware with a few downgraded textures. Mass Effect 3 and Assassin's Creed III were notorious failures that required a massive undertaking to port to the system.

But again, I'm not trying to be a debbie downer here! I think you're probably right that Takahashi assumed that if they were given the greenlight to port XCX that he'd have a shoestring budget that was unrealistic. And like I said, a lot can change in almost 3 years. Here's hoping this game does fantastically, and Nintendo throws the money they need to at an XCX port or remaster.
 
Quezacolt

Quezacolt

Member
jshackles said:
I would say that a lot of your comparisons are apples to oranges. I'd consider Breath of the Wild to a fringe case, because the Switch version is more than a simple port and was instead mostly developed along side the WiiU version.
Click to expand...
I remember readin an interview where the devs admited the game had to be ported at the end of the development, wich would explain the bad optimization.
 
-Arcadia-

-Arcadia-

Banned
jshackles said:
I'd consider Breath of the Wild to a fringe case, because the Switch version is more than a simple port and was instead mostly developed along side the WiiU version.
Click to expand...

It isn’t though. Fundamentally the same game, running at a better resolution and framerate. If a Switch port were this tough, wouldn’t have doing it alongside a game in active development, and with no prior experience, knocked development off the rails? As we’ve discussed, they don’t get much larger or complex than this, either.

A lot of non-Nintendo console games the past few generations have been designed and developed for PC or are using an engine like Unreal that makes it easy to export your finished product on multiple platforms (which now includes the Switch).
Click to expand...

The problem with that, is that I can cite just as many running on other engines, or bespoke solutions. Even for UE games, nothing in this world is going to make changing something from 360 to PS4, with the immense architectural differences, easy. Yet, it’s managed anyway, at what seems to be very little overhead or expense (or it wouldn’t be happening for these niche games).

The WiiU being what it was last gen was the inverse to this very problem and why there weren't many 3rd party games released for it even though a lot of games could have theoretically run just fine on the hardware with a few downgraded textures. Mass Effect 3 and Assassin's Creed III were notorious failures that required a massive undertaking to port to the system.
Click to expand...

The Wii U was fundamentally less capable at mainstream development methodologies at the time, with some real deficiencies in the hardware requiring specialized coding. We’re talking about ‘down ports’ in that situation, but an ‘up port’ in this one.

But again, I'm not trying to be a debbie downer here! I think you're probably right that Takahashi assumed that if they were given the greenlight to port XCX that he'd have a shoestring budget that was unrealistic. And like I said, a lot can change in almost 3 years. Here's hoping this game does fantastically, and Nintendo throws the money they need to at an XCX port or remaster.
Click to expand...

Same. I really think this one could do gangbusters. The Switch and AC just seem at a whole other level lately, even discounting Corona, and Xenoblade has the privilege of releasing in that environment.
 
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Touch fuzZy. get BizZay

Touch fuzZy. get BizZay

Member
Oh let li'l Juju 'ave a go innit?

'e's just bein' a right geezer an' havin' a laugh is all.

'e din do nuffin wot yuhself wo'on dun if'n yer arse wuz stuck in Gaur Plains now, innit.
 
Coolwhhip

Coolwhhip

Neophyte
-Arcadia- said:
Please, please, please.

I’m shocked they did orig Xeno first, because X is pretty much ready to go. As is, it would look gorgeous on the Switch, and that’s before any possible resolution enhancements or clean-up.

It’s absolutely perfect for Switch in every way.
Click to expand...

Resolution enhancements? Yeah about that...
 
Touch fuzZy. get BizZay

Touch fuzZy. get BizZay

Member
3v7ass4b59151.png
 
Belmonte

Belmonte

Member
Dudes, can I use this thread to ask something about the original Xenoblade?

There is a high level prick I want to beat in Central Factory but I was told this area will be locked soon. Can I finish Agniratha and face him after or I need to beat before the Agniratha boss? I wish to continue the story.
 
Wunray

Wunray

Member
1 hour and 30 minutes gentlemen, LET'S GO! (except for you guys who live in a different part of the world who are probably playing now >_>)
 
Gt111

Gt111

Neo Member
As someone who's never played this game, I really want to.

Has anyone tried this on PC? or I guess an emulated version
 
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-Arcadia-

-Arcadia-

Banned
Malakhov said:
6 hours in this is like final fantasy meets world of warcraft, how did I miss out on this game. I'm hooked, I've been doing every quests and trades etc.. so far. So damn good
Click to expand...

It is somehow incredibly satisfying to gather up a ton of quests, then just head outside of town with basically every creature being a quest objective and granting EXP everywhere. It really shakes up the typical RPG journeys where you’re either traveling or beating on some random enemy for a pittance of EXP.
 
Malakhov

Malakhov

Banned
-Arcadia- said:
It is somehow incredibly satisfying to gather up a ton of quests, then just head outside of town with basically every creature being a quest objective and granting EXP everywhere. It really shakes up the typical RPG journeys where you’re either traveling or beating on some random enemy for a pittance of EXP.
Click to expand...
Yep that is what feels like world of warcraft for me. Head into town then grab a ton of quests then run out and do all of them before turning them in. That and the world is so vast just like it. Great feeling.
 
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TNT Sheep

TNT Sheep

Member
-Arcadia- said:
It is somehow incredibly satisfying to gather up a ton of quests, then just head outside of town with basically every creature being a quest objective and granting EXP everywhere. It really shakes up the typical RPG journeys where you’re either traveling or beating on some random enemy for a pittance of EXP.
Click to expand...

It is so much better than how it was in the original. I think in the original I gave up on doing all the quests halfway through the game, because there were just too many to keep track of. Now that it is more streamlined, I might actually have a realistic chance of completing most, if not all of the quests.
 
EverythingsOverrated

EverythingsOverrated

Member
Somehow my copy isn't going to get here until Tuesday. Slightly bummed, I actually took the day off work hahaha, but it's cool I have to finish Final Fantasy 7 Remake anyway.
 
Wunray

Wunray

Member
Man I miissed xenoblade and the high level enimies in lowwer level areas, im in this cave just chilling waiting for this lvl 75 spider to move, catch is it is set off by sound.

Edit: got the item turns out it was blind and i had to move all slow like.
 
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Malakhov

Malakhov

Banned
Wunray said:
Man I miissed xenoblade and the high level enimies in lowwer level areas, im in this cave just chilling waiting for this lvl 75 spider to move, catch is it is set off by sound.

Edit: got the item turns out it was blind and i had to move all slow like.
Click to expand...
Another thing similar to mmorpgs. High level mobs in low level zones, it's great.

10 hours in now, having a blast
 
teezzy

teezzy

Banned
^ For what it's worth, I legit love Spirits Within. I'm like the only one I know who does, but it's a fantastic movie.

I own it on DVD and Blu Ray still.
 
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