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Opinion Game Dev Platform Xbox Series X: Phil Spencer Says You Haven't Understood The True Power Of Next-Gen Yet

Exanthus

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We've seen and we understand, Phil.

Bit of an overused meme now.
 

Psykodad

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I am relieved. I was fearing we were going to have another generation of consoles with blurry 30fps games.
Sucks for you if feel that the tech-demo was terrible. It's going to be a rough gen for you then, no matter the console. 😉

And it still didn't look better than the in game engine hell blade 2 trailer . How about that main character, last gen work there
Not sure why you drag Hellblade into this, because UE5 is going to be the most-used 3rd party multiplatform engine.
 

TearInto5th

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I think the issue Microsoft might have is that the people that actually give a hoot about this kind of stuff will be incredibly niche.
You're completely right, but they're about 20 years behind Sony in this regard. They have built themselves on niche games since the PS1, so the niche audience already knows where to go.

The 360 started off great in this regard, but then MS dropped everything and decided TV, TV SPORTS, SPORTY TV'S!, was a far better angle.

Now they have to start all over again, in the negative too, from how they burned their customer base from the first half of the 360 generation.
 
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TearInto5th

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Not sure what that has to do with my post; most TVs have been 60hz at least for ages and most devs don't target 60FPS because they (and gamers) prefer higher fidelity.

MAYBE this is the gen where those "details you can only achieve with a framerate hit" won't make sense; but that's certainly not what developers have chosen to do in the past.
They had no choice with the shitty CPU, a lot of devs would have to say, we can lock this in at 30fps and won't have a hiccup because our engine flucs between 34-43 frames.

When you can't say that at 60fps locked, its not worth trying, without the extra money, time and effort.

This generation will be the opposite. With a bit of optimisation, FPS will be an easy achievement for most titles. When you start stacking on the details as well will show how well an engine has been optimised.

This is one reason I am looking forward to what a lot of Sony 1st party could achieve. Their main studios code extremely well and their games show it.

Don't get me wrong, both consoles are capable, but MS would rather cater to a HDD from 7 years ago for the first 1 to 2 years, so all 7 billion people can play games! Yay!

Show us impossible, show us why we're buying these machines. Unfortunately for MS, they stumbled big time, because those people watching your show? Those are the hard core gamers that are buying your machine day 1.

I'm happy to hear that Sony wants to be more "professional" in their approach. The xbox fridge in the background on stream?
Good gag, but Twitter and the Memeboys aren't your audience.

Sorry this went off a tangent, wow.

TLDR: not worth reading
 

TearInto5th

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He did not. He said it was difficult to show the difference in video form because they can't control the experience. The launch/launch window games for these machines will be Pro/One X games at 4k 60 fps. That's the reality and that's not going to wow the hard core. What's going to wow the hardcore is how the experience feels while playing it. You can't demonstrate that on screen. You can't do kiosks either during the pandemic.

MS and Sony shot themselves in the foot with the Pro and the One X. There won't be a generational gap visually on day one. So they will need to show things that demonstrate why people should upgrade. I'm not being a total nut-hanger on this. MS can do a better job of showing us why the Velocity Architecture is important and other features that are still shrouded in mystery.
Sony have done it completely right. They already said in the past that the upcoming generation was for the hard core gamers.


Sony has been making games that cannot be replicated anywhere else but PS5. This is why they're standing out, they aren't catering to the millions of last gen gamers, they're catering to the backbone of their business. This is where the seed grows, and they know it.

Only IF... Microsoft have (big) games that are exclusive to XSX only come launch will they have a chance. If they don't, they won't stand out at all.
 

bad guy

as bad as Danny Zuko in gym knickers
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in my head
He's been playing on his own XSX for months now and won't show us anything? What a prick. ;]
 
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ZywyPL

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This generation will be the opposite. With a bit of optimisation, FPS will be an easy achievement for most titles. When you start stacking on the details as well will show how well an engine has been optimised.

The VRR alone will be a game-changer - playing games even at 35-45FPS+VRR will be a more enjoyable experience than locked 30+Vsync. It's not a secret there will be games operating at 30FPS, but I just hope this time around unlocked framerate will be a much more common option than it was in current generation, exactly because of VRR which will get rid of any potential judder, screen tear etc. So the devs won't have to necessarily work hard to squeeze a locked 60, but at least give us the option to unlock the framerate, it's doesn't cost a thing, but can make such an impact.
 
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azertydu91

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The VRR alone will be a game-changer - playing games even at 35-45FPS+VRR will be a more enjoyable experience than locked 30+Vsync. It's not a secret there will be games operating at 30FPS, but I just hope this time around unlocked framerate will be a much more common option than it was in current generation, exactly because of VRR which will get rid of any potential judder, screen tear etc. So the devs won't have to necessarily work hard to squeeze a locked 60, but at least give us the option to unlock the framerate, it's doesn't cost a thing, but can make such an impact.
VRR gives amazing results but sadly too few TV support it I think it will be better with the spread of HDMI 2.1 but I was wondering is there a way for the game to detect if it is connected to a VRR compatible TV?

Because if not I'm not sure dev will spend time to give the possibility to activate or desactivate VRR.
Maybe it can work on a system level like you activate VRR on you console then the game auomatically switch to unlocked framerate.
Because if not I guess a lot of misinformed people will not know what to do with it.
 

ZywyPL

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Maybe it can work on a system level like you activate VRR on you console then the game auomatically switch to unlocked framerate.
Because if not I guess a lot of misinformed people will not know what to do with it.

It does work like that on X1X already, I mean, is togglable in the display options menu, but if a game is capped at 30 there's not much use of it, some games allow to unlock the framerate, or aim for 60 but fall short of it, those are the cases VRR is usable. But that's only one out of four current-gen systems that supports the feature, so I expect the devs will put more emphasis on it once it becomes a common feature on next-gen systems.
 

azertydu91

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It does work like that on X1X already, I mean, is togglable in the display options menu, but if a game is capped at 30 there's not much use of it, some games allow to unlock the framerate, or aim for 60 but fall short of it, those are the cases VRR is usable. But that's only one out of four current-gen systems that supports the feature, so I expect the devs will put more emphasis on it once it becomes a common feature on next-gen systems.
It also needs compatible TVs which is probably why games supporting this feature are too few there's something like 10 games compatible.
But you didn't really answer the problematic though or maybe I misunderstood you.Because you don't specify if the display option menu is in game or at OS level.

I hope it's at OS level which would probably auto set games to unlocked framerates.I don't think enough people do or want to check the available options of a game on console at least.

That's why it need to be at system level otherwise it's pretty pointless for most people and may diminish consoles simplicity to use.

I like to dwel on the technical side but the overwhelming majority of my friend never tweak options in a game beside a few audio and invert x/y axis (I even have a friend that turn the TV sound off then plays spotify on a portable speaker, he is a monster, before killing him making the earth safer I showed him how to use spotify and turn of the game sound).

So let's hope that's what will happen.
 
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Goliathy

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Sony have done it completely right. They already said in the past that the upcoming generation was for the hard core gamers.


Sony has been making games that cannot be replicated anywhere else but PS5. This is why they're standing out, they aren't catering to the millions of last gen gamers, they're catering to the backbone of their business. This is where the seed grows, and they know it.

Only IF... Microsoft have (big) games that are exclusive to XSX only come launch will they have a chance. If they don't, they won't stand out at all.

the article you quoted is very old, where did you find it?
And what exact GAME did sony make that cant be done on any other platform? lol

We know for sure that there are two XSX exclusive games, that are - according to the developers - only possible on XSX and not on currentgen:



The Medium's Core Gameplay Feature Wasn't Possible On Current-Gen

If you really believe, that there is a game that is technically only possible on PS5 and not at all possible on PC or XSX then you are delusional.

As an example, it packs eye-candy such as ray tracing (a vastly improved lighting system that’s only just become affordable in souped-up gaming PCs) and frame rates up to 120 frames per second.

ray tracing? really?
 

Trainsmove

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Sucks for you if feel that the tech-demo was terrible. It's going to be a rough gen for you then, no matter the console. 😉


Not sure why you drag Hellblade into this, because UE5 is going to be the most-used 3rd party multiplatform engine.
When PS5 fans think that it's ssd is why it can only be done on ps5, when everything in that demo has been done better on xsx already HB2. The main characters look last gen in one and one looks like next gen with ur4 or 5
 
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TearInto5th

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the article you quoted is very old, where did you find it?
And what exact GAME did sony make that cant be done on any other platform? lol

We know for sure that there are two XSX exclusive games, that are - according to the developers - only possible on XSX and not on currentgen:





If you really believe, that there is a game that is technically only possible on PS5 and not at all possible on PC or XSX then you are delusional.



ray tracing? really?
Its from July 19, its really not that old, the fact that they even said it is what matters.

What I'm saying is that you're only as strong as your weakest link. XsX' weakest link is being tied to the PC and the old generation of consoles.

You're going to have this amazingly powerful hardware, only to say to your user base "we won't make anything for 1 to 2 years that really takes the XSX to task, but we will make it look super nice!"

That Scorn game, I absolutely loved the trailer, but the fact that they're catering to be on parity with PC proves it won't be truly next gen.

The medium however, if that's XSX and XSX only, that's a winner. Massive Silent Hill vibes, they also have (I think) the original Silent Hill Music Director. It felt more like a possibility for game play. If this is the case, which I hope it is, is a glimpse to what next gen will be like.
 

TearInto5th

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When PS5 fans think that it's ssd is why it can only be done on ps5, when everything in that demo has been done better on xsx already HB2. The main characters look last gen in one and one looks like next gen with ur4 or 5
If you can provide some proof that the trailer for HB2 was running realtime on an XSX Devkit and was also playable would be greatly helpful.

That was a cinematic, may have been in engine, but not playable. There's a big difference, the UE5 demo is far closer to what you'll see, for both consoles.
 

Psykodad

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When PS5 fans think that it's ssd is why it can only be done on ps5, when everything in that demo has been done better on xsx already HB2. The main characters look last gen in one and one looks like next gen with ur4 or 5
When did I ever act like the tech-demo is only possible on PS5, though? 😉


It's UE5, whoever thinks the tech isn't going to run on other systems, is an idiot.
 
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Goliathy

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Its from July 19, its really not that old, the fact that they even said it is what matters.

What I'm saying is that you're only as strong as your weakest link. XsX' weakest link is being tied to the PC and the old generation of consoles.

You're going to have this amazingly powerful hardware, only to say to your user base "we won't make anything for 1 to 2 years that really takes the XSX to task, but we will make it look super nice!"

That Scorn game, I absolutely loved the trailer, but the fact that they're catering to be on parity with PC proves it won't be truly next gen.

The medium however, if that's XSX and XSX only, that's a winner. Massive Silent Hill vibes, they also have (I think) the original Silent Hill Music Director. It felt more like a possibility for game play. If this is the case, which I hope it is, is a glimpse to what next gen will be like.

there are XSX only games, and only for the first year, xbox studio games will be released on xbox one, but this won't have any impact on xsx version of the game at all.
we had the same current gen, different teams working on the xbox one version and on the xbox 360 version...

so, we have two games confirmed that are only on PC and nextgen possible, how about PS5? What game is only possible on PS5 and NOT on XSX? because you just said:

Sony has been making games that cannot be replicated anywhere else but PS5.

With absolutely laughable. lol

and pc is never the weakest link ever lol when the nextgen consoles launches there will be PCs out there that will destroy PS5 and XSX easily, but will be much more expensive of course
 

FranXico

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Sony have done it completely right. They already said in the past that the upcoming generation was for the hard core gamers.


Sony has been making games that cannot be replicated anywhere else but PS5. This is why they're standing out, they aren't catering to the millions of last gen gamers, they're catering to the backbone of their business. This is where the seed grows, and they know it.

Only IF... Microsoft have (big) games that are exclusive to XSX only come launch will they have a chance. If they don't, they won't stand out at all.
That comment was more about hardware pricing than actual software content.

As far as I'm concerned, the only way I would pay 500 for a PS5 at launch is if HipHopGamer's perfect BC fantasy was real. (Hint: it's not).
 

Gamerguy84

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I agree with this.

My daughter's PC only has a 6TF card and she only plays Sims. She has over 120GB CC and her game took about an hour and a half to load.

Couple weeks ago I added an NVMe drive and 8GB memory. The game now loads in 4 min 30 seconds and is incredibly smooth.

Im not comparing her rig to next gen because it is way underpowered comparatively. But that speed difference by adding DDR4 and an NVMe is incredible.
 

TearInto5th

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How
there are XSX only games, and only for the first year, xbox studio games will be released on xbox one, but this won't have any impact on xsx version of the game at all.
we had the same current gen, different teams working on the xbox one version and on the xbox 360 version...

so, we have two games confirmed that are only on PC and nextgen possible, how about PS5? What game is only possible on PS5 and NOT on XSX? because you just said:



With absolutely laughable. lol

and pc is never the weakest link ever lol when the nextgen consoles launches there will be PCs out there that will destroy PS5 and XSX easily, but will be much more expensive of course
How is PC not the weakest link? If you can't see it, I can't help you. The PC hasn't been the weakest link until now. And it makes it even worse if you need to spend $1000's of dollars on SSD's and a Raid configuration to keep up. I still don't see how that's a win.

And MS said the first 12 to 24 months. Thats a long time. And I'm not talking about 2nd or 3rd party here. I'm talking 1st party, the reason you want to buy the box.

I find the problem with MS' strategy is that they are relying on others to do the work for them. If all 1st party titles are coming to PC and Gamepass, it means that every 1st party title has the 7200RPM HDD streaming speed in mind.

These consoles are something special, especially with a closed box environment. They need to make that the standard.
 

ZywyPL

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Sony has been making games that cannot be replicated anywhere else but PS5.

FUD. Proof/source please.

hope it's at OS level which would probably auto set games to unlocked framerates.I don't think enough people do or want to check the available options of a game on console at least.

Man, that would be so cool. But still, there is always the very first set up everyone has to go through anyway on the initial boot of the consoles, so even if only manually adjusted, everyone would be forced to set the display options anyway.
 

azertydu91

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FUD. Proof/source please.



Man, that would be so cool. But still, there is always the very first set up everyone has to go through anyway on the initial boot of the consoles, so even if only manually adjusted, everyone would be forced to set the display options anyway.
But will the casual gamer do it?
 

The Hamburglar

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This makes no sense and youre completely pushing BS. Phil has delivered on a substantial amount of what he's said so far. Dont do this man.
Exactly that’s what I’m saying.
If Phil was a second hand car salesman I’d call him the milkman because he always delivers.
 

The Pleasure

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Remember me. As i talk about the flops. Remember me. As you play another halo. For even as i talk some more i talk about my games. I lie about the secrets as you listen to my voice. Remember me. Each time you see another forza.
 

Goliathy

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How

How is PC not the weakest link? If you can't see it, I can't help you. The PC hasn't been the weakest link until now. And it makes it even worse if you need to spend $1000's of dollars on SSD's and a Raid configuration to keep up. I still don't see how that's a win.

And MS said the first 12 to 24 months. Thats a long time. And I'm not talking about 2nd or 3rd party here. I'm talking 1st party, the reason you want to buy the box.

I find the problem with MS' strategy is that they are relying on others to do the work for them. If all 1st party titles are coming to PC and Gamepass, it means that every 1st party title has the 7200RPM HDD streaming speed in mind.

These consoles are something special, especially with a closed box environment. They need to make that the standard.

This is only for the first year, now tell me what kind of big AAA first party PS5 only games did sony announce FOR LAUNCH?
just for the first year of the console is not a big problem, the consoles will sell out anyway... and there are plenty of other games available.. the big exclusive games always come later on.

Also, do you know what "Minimum system requirements" for games are? devs could easily say: Minimum system requirements for this game:

- Nvidia A100 Tensor Core GPU: 19,5 TFLOPS@FP32
- 7GBps PCIe 4.0 SSD

and this supposed to be the weakest link? lol
 

Kerotan Frog

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Then show us, don't tell us. We are the ones who buy your products, so stop withholding the gameplay. Your "gameplay" reveals didn't inspire much confidence. Looked nearly the same as current gen.
 
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keram

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infinite power,
power of dreams,
true next-gen power
...
Which Buzzword will be next?

How about showing us this POWER in a NEXT-GEN GAME(-PLAY) ?!
 

Kerotan Frog

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I still can't believe they're making us wait until July for Halo Infinite footage. What else do they plan on showing for the next month? I guarantee nobody who cares about Xbox is caring about any other game over Halo.

This reminds me of when Kojima made us wait 5-6 weeks after E3 2007 to see MGS4 live demo because he wanted his own event..
 

Reficul

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Also, do you know what "Minimum system requirements" for games are? devs could easily say: Minimum system requirements for this game:

- Nvidia A100 Tensor Core GPU: 19,5 TFLOPS@FP32
- 7GBps PCIe 4.0 SSD

and this supposed to be the weakest link? lol
Maybe not the weakest link, but the devs could probably be the missing link if they choose to target 0.000000001% of the PC community.
 
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Don't know about all that but Phil did clearly came out of his cave when the UE5 demo on PS5 came out. Quick on that twitter. He was nowhere to be seen when they fucked up that Inside Xbox. Sweeney hit home for sure.
And after the gameplay video of The last of Us2 a few days ago they came with...You can play more than 1000 games on your Xbox SeX right out of the gate, old games....😉
 

sinnergy

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And after the gameplay video of The last of Us2 a few days ago they came with...You can play more than 1000 games on your Xbox SeX right out of the gate, old games....😉
And? That’s awesome, as someone without income because of COVID, I M glad I can only get the console and play my catalog of unfinished games.

as I set apart money for this ... and it’s still a internal struggle if I will get one or better use it for living...
 
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And? That’s awesome, as someone without income because of COVID, I M glad I can only get the console and play my catalog of unfinished games.

as I set apart money for this ... and it’s still a internal struggle if I will get one or better use it for living...
And i will play my unfinished PS4 games on my PS5 so??
 
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TearInto5th

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This is only for the first year, now tell me what kind of big AAA first party PS5 only games did sony announce FOR LAUNCH?
just for the first year of the console is not a big problem, the consoles will sell out anyway... and there are plenty of other games available.. the big exclusive games always come later on.

Also, do you know what "Minimum system requirements" for games are? devs could easily say: Minimum system requirements for this game:

- Nvidia A100 Tensor Core GPU: 19,5 TFLOPS@FP32
- 7GBps PCIe 4.0 SSD

and this supposed to be the weakest link? lol
Oh, That's right!, because devs will choose to only cater to 0.4% of their target market. Silly me.

Looks like nothing you've ever seen!, but don't expect a sequel because it only sold 3k copies.