LittleBusters
Banned
That's fine, but if PS5 is loading AAA games in 2 seconds, that's a game changer.
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Xbox Series S load times
- Thread starter DrumNBassDanTTV
- Start date
That's fine, but if PS5 is loading AAA games in 2 seconds, that's a game changer.
MasterCornholio
Member
Even though I'm praising the I/O with Ratchet and Demon Souls I suggest waiting to see how it performs with other games before coming to a conclusion. I haven't seen any 3rd parties take real advantage of the I/O so it's a good suggestion to wait and see what happens.
Zuzu
Member
Yes, you're right, but we need a bigger sample size of games from Sony before we draw that conclusion (and Microsoft needs to show us some loading times on next gen games). But currently, with the knowledge we have, the PS5 is more impressive when it comes to loading. But nonetheless the Xbox is still impressive when comparing it to current gen systems.
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Ma-Yuan
Member
Which means they have absolutely nothing to show that uses the VA... Really bad imo.
LittleBusters
Banned
Loading time is not the end all, be all. Sony prioritizing SSD above GPU. I have no doubt multiplats will be consistently 4K/60fps on XSX, while they will not be on PS5. So it really comes down to marketing. If Sony can just blast away with their loading time commercials, that might be way more effective with the masses then a more complex ad by Microsoft telling people that they do 4K/60fps gaming better.
MarkMe2525
Member
Ok... Ok... Who let the 13 year old in here
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Donarudo
Member
Right, I should have been more precise. I sloppily used IO to refer to the whole SSD sub-system.
Elder Legend
Banned
Good for you. Now why are you here again? Aren't you supposed to be getting frags on Fortnite and building at 100 miles an hour on your 144 hertz, 300 fps monster of a pc ?
Or is that too much for you and you decided to take a break and waste your time on a forum because all your buddies are now in school and can't play Fortnite with you anymore because lil Timmy and lil Jimmy have a strict bedtime ? Let me know, this is EXTREMELY important to me and the rest of Neogaf members. 2020 is already bad it is, don't make us have nightmares now about you not being able to play Fortnite with your friends.
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It was literally the first thing they showed ever of the PS5.
Spiderman PS4
PS5 load time: 0.8 seconds
PS4 load time: 8 seconds
Whether that's seen in the game too remains to be seen I guess.
This xbox series S demo isn't impressive. This is the S version of the game too. It's loading low quality assets on a last gen game, 8GB max. Was expecting faster honestly. The XSX might even be slower than this loading the X1X assets.
pasterpl
Member
Didn’t they show Spider-Man load times on the dev kit awhile back?
Found it:
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/13712118/akrales_190123_3174_0087.jpg)
Sony demos PlayStation 5 fast load times, hints at cloud gaming future
Less than a second to load a Spider-Man levelwww.google.com
this is not proper comparison, we know nothing about conditions of this, was it improvement of loading of PS4 bc game or early stage of their Spider-Man ps5 remaster? We simply don’t know, we need to wait for ps5 to be out and people will have to do these comparison in proper conditions.
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pasterpl
Member
Ok? So you think 'development' means it got worse? It says under development because next gen (PS5) was under development. This video was the first ever thing we heard about PS5 even being a thing. We will have to see in the game it may not be anything like it depending on what they load (sounds for one) but the difference between PS4 and PS5 there suggests 10x better on PS5 vs PS4.
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JerryinSoCal
Member
The guys at gameinformer said Kena cold boots in 2 seconds.
That is simple. The game is still not optimized. This is just a current Gen game knowing nothing about SSD and hardware decompression and therefor still loads in packets and decompressed via cpu
Won't get much faster on PS5 because in the end it is about the decompression via cpu and other cpu tasks.
SSD can only help so far if the game is still designed for an hdd.
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JLB
Banned
ha, that guy with the “shh, let them keep talking” was right all the time.
hint: read the thread, its there.
pasterpl
Member
no, it means that it is not same comparison as Microsoft shown, show me a bc game loading on PS4 vs ps5 side by side, same game code just different machines, then it will be a valid comparison
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pasterpl
Member
boots into the gameplay or to the menu? How fast Kena loads on PS4? These, taken out of context quotes are useless. Why Sony will not release a like for like comparisons as ones that ms released?
kuncol02
Banned
Sony shown shit. Literally. They only shown TECH DEMO of their SSD. Where are loadings in Spiderman gameplay? Why they didn't shown them? Is that because they are not as impressive as their demo?
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Alright, maybe that does make sense. But then the next question is: Why is MS using this to show off the SSD advantage? Seems like using something actually built for the SSD (some cross-gen game) would make for a much more impressive demonstration.
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
Is Spiderman loading a fast travel or is that the initial load from the main menu. Like like fast travel but I have but played the game. If it's fast travel it's less impressive. If it's initial load then I'm really impressed by the PS4.
This is right.
While I do think the PS5's loading can possibly be as impressive as some other people think it will when loading older titles, there still have been no valid comparisons to prove it at all.
I really don't know why MS doesn't show anything new. They should have at least a few patches ready.
But we'll, maybe they want to wait, because good news for MS do not hold long while bad news sticks in them. So the best would be to show what can be done short before pre-orders.
Fair enough, I did say we will see in the game but why all the assumptions on one side? It didn't look remastered and it was loading the exact same thing as the PS4 version. Who is to say the Outer Worlds demo shown here is the same code and not something they improved to show? How do you know that until people get it and start playing it? even when you get it you wouldn't know if it's the same code. I can only judge the two demo's we have seen on their own merits and wait for these consoles to come out. A x5 time increase for a 100x slower drive just didnt seem all that impressive for this Series S demo whatever the possible reason for it is.
metareferential
Member
Are you guys really basing everything off of a last-gen game? Which in no way is optimized to stream assets that fast?
They're not using a next-gen only game because well, guess what? It's not on older hardware. And there's only so much you can do with "patches". It's not like you can change the way an engine works overnight.
This is just baseline performance on backward compatible games.
They're not using a next-gen only game because well, guess what? It's not on older hardware. And there's only so much you can do with "patches". It's not like you can change the way an engine works overnight.
This is just baseline performance on backward compatible games.
sendit
Member
Right.......and here I thought this thread was about load times which directly correlate to the I/O between the SSD and VRAM.
pyrocro
Member
my bad, deleted because it didn't make sense.
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MrFunSocks
Banned
No it doesn’t lol. If you think that’s the only thing that matters in how fast games load then you clearly shouldn’t be talking about anything as technical as load times.
sendit
Member
Just stop.
MrFunSocks
Banned
Take your own advice.
How fast a game loads is not entirely dependent on the theoretical maximum speeds of one part of the I/O in the system.
sendit
Member
Yikes again.......We are talking about how fast the data moves from SSD to the VRAM. Not once did anyone mention theoretical speed of the SSD. In terms of I/O, the discussion has been about the customizations in place to remove bottlenecks between the workflow of data moving from SSD to VRAM.
twerkitout
Member
I have seen this stated numerous times in this forum, has this been officially confirmed anywhere? Isn't Velocity Architecture just leveraged via an API? Aren't the dev environments similar to PC? PC games automatically leverage faster load times without having to be 'optimized'. Just wondering if this is a guess or confirmed fact
MrFunSocks
Banned
Yet the guy I replied to asking what he actually meant by I/O disagrees with you lol
Take the L and go fight the fanboys wars with someone else. Ignored
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M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Now it means that devs got it works better. Nothing suggests thatn Obsidian works more on Outer Worlds, to make it runs better.
Azurro
Banned
Is it? I am speculating because I haven't worked on it myself, but it would surprise me if the API function to get a resource from storage was not abstracting away whatever the hardware is doing to retrieve that asset. So whether it's a Series S or an Xbox One, you simply call the function and then the hardware does its thing and returns to you the asset, transparently. That probably means that what you see in that video is what it is.
I would be really, REALLY surprised if you had to tell the code where to decompress your asset, that optimisation you talk about most likely doesn't exist.
It's still a huge improvement from last gen, but to be honest it's not really mindblowing, I was expecting more...or less loading time I should say.
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sendit
Member
Yet the guy I replied to asking what he actually meant by I/O disagrees with you lol
Take the L and go fight the fanboys wars with someone else. Ignored
BrentonB
Member
It makes no difference what console generation a game is developed for because it's all just data sitting on a drive. In the case of an SSD that data is instantly accessible; there are no seek times. That means any difference you see in loading time is simply down to the I/O hardware, system software, and firmware. What you see from this Series S demo is what you will see for all games, barring the use of loading screens hardcoded to display for a certain length (such as Mass Effect 2's loading screens). Now, some variation may occur based on how much data is actually needed to load, but that's about it. There is no next generation 'magic bullet' that will kill load times.
Jigsaah
Gold Member
"Load times will be virtually eliminated"
- some asshat
I feel like I've been lied to over and over with next gen. More egregiously from Sony but Microsoft hasn't even shown us gameplay on the XSX from a next gen game.
Everything I see on GAF nowadays just tells me to upgrade my PC.
- some asshat
I feel like I've been lied to over and over with next gen. More egregiously from Sony but Microsoft hasn't even shown us gameplay on the XSX from a next gen game.
Everything I see on GAF nowadays just tells me to upgrade my PC.
Pimpbaa
Member
How can it be automatic when it is done in the games code for current gen? That’s why load times vary so wildly this gen, some devs handle loading more efficiently. Something that is done on software on the cpu cores can’t just automatically use decompression hardware. Unless BC was done by a game by game basis (modifying code), but that would take time and wouldn’t achieve the high BC rate they aimed to achieve.
Sure, the SSD works like on a pc. It will be the same on PS5 with BC games when loaded from the SSD. But the api cannot change how the game behaves. If the game loads assets in packages, the api won't change this. Using an SSD with such games is just like on pc brute forcing but it is not optimized. You can only optimize when you change the game code.
E.g. The packages can be compressed by any compression algorithm that is not supported via hardware, because in PS4 and xb1 the CPU was used for decompression. So this must still be done via cpu.
Creating a patch to use hardware decompression should be easy, but than the developer of the game must do something and the whole game must get redownloaded.
BlueXImpulse
Banned
You have about 2 years before load times are virtually eliminated on your PC. Upgrade if you want, you’re still about 2 years behind in getting your hands on next gen SSD tech.
CrysisFreak
Banned
Witcher 3 and FFXV would be good starting points tbh.
twerkitout
Member
This still sounds like a theory yet you are presenting it as fact. Do you have any sources for this?
So if it works this way then you don't think an unpatched PS4 game will load as fast as a PS5 game? Even if the process is as you layout wouldn't the PS5, XSX/S have a shitload more CPU to throw at decompression? And if it is easy to patch a game then why wouldn't Microsoft patch at least one game to show the best performance?
I think what you see is what you get and PS4 games unpatched will load much fast then 10-12 seconds. Either way we will know for sure in less than 2 months
Azurro
Banned
Can you please answer me one thing, in your words, what are these packages you are talking about?
Azurro
Banned
This is not how it works. Loading an asset is abstracted away under an API call, as in, yes, it is automatic, the programmer doesn't have to code the entire process of accessing the HDD and obtaining some asset. Aside from some techniques of replicating assets on disk to make them load faster, the reason why some games take longer to load than others is because some games are able to only load what they need at the moment they need it, which is much more difficult than it sounds.
To oversimplify it:
Games for HDDs don't load single texture/object files, they load stuff in compressed containers that contains many objects etc, because HDDs can't handle many small reads so good. So you create packages to load as much as needed (and more). Else the HDDs bandwidth would drastically suffer.
BTW, this is a fact and no speculation.
So if a BC game runs on the new hardware the SSD helps with massive bandwidth and the CPU helps with faster decompression. This is the brute forcing you know from running the games on pc.
If the game is optimized for a SSD, it will only load the stuff that is actually needed, compressed in a Form, the hardware acceleration can decompress. This is way faster.
Whenever you see a load screen in current games, most of the time the game just tries to copy the packets into memory and decompress them for later use.
You should really try to understand how games currently load their assets (read my other comment above.. To complicated to merge the answers from my mobile phone)
But I really don't understand why Ms isn't showing new games. Maybe they don't have one properly running, or they just want to keep it for another presentation.
Azurro
Banned
Well yes, assets are stored in related sectors and so on, but it's still abstracted away by an API call, I can't imagine doing much more than play with some parameters, deciding how to package the assets together and how often to make the calls when it comes to fine tuning. I don't see how a backwards compatibility mode wouldn't be able to implement a loading scheme for this case that takes advantage of the SSD, as it wouldn't be up to each individual title to know how to load assets.
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