Support NeoGAF

[IbizaPocholo]

Xbox head Phil Spencer prefers higher frame rates than resolution

While Microsoft won't dictate what developers will optimise for on the Xbox Series X, Xbox head Phil Spencer said he'd prefer to play games with higher frame ra

stevivor.com

While both the Xbox Series X and PS5 can both reach 8K resolution — though it’s not clear if that’s native or upscaled — Spencer told Stevivor that he’d prefer games in 4K with a higher frame rate cap instead.

“We’ve never really tried to limit what developers are trying to do on our platform, whether it’s 60 frames per second on Xbox 360 or people doing 4K, 60 [frames-per-second] now on Xbox One X,” he continued. “We want to give developers the tools to go try things that they want to go try on any of the hardware platforms and capability can be there for them to go try things.

“I think we’ve reached a point with Xbox One X in the generation where games look amazing, and there’s always work we can do to look more amazing. But I want games to feel as amazing as they look. We don’t have that in today’s generation, mainly because the CPU is underpowered relative to the GPU that’s in the box in order to reach a feel and frame rate and kind of consistency or variable refresh rate and other things that we want.

“As we were looking at the future, the feel of the games was definitely something that we wanted to have more focus on, not just throwing more pixels up on the screen.”

 

[cireza]

Finally someone who understands.

 

[GHG]

“As we were looking at the future, the feel of the games was definitely something that we wanted to have more focus on, not just throwing more pixels up on the screen.”

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Well he is right.

But marketing for their consoles is in great part about pushing the resolution envelope (not bad, but not as important as 60fps on consoles).

We all knew about the CPU issue.

 

[Shin]

Echoes with the rumors of 3.2GHz vs 3.5GHz, I'd prefer 300MHz over 1TF.
Make 60FPS mandatory already, someone with balls needs to do it, enough with the realism crap.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Microsoft have made some things mandatory that are now standard in the industry; a HDD, online connection, party-enabled, I think they had custom sound-tracks but I don't know if you can still do that?

The point is, if Microsoft demand 60fps for every game, Sony will have to follow suit.

 

[GHG]

Well he is right.

But marketing for their consoles is in great part about pushing the resolution envelope (not bad, but not as important as 60fps on consoles).

We all knew about the CPU issue.

Their marketing has been all about fidelity, 4k and 8k so far.

I don't disagree with him, I'm going to be gaming at 1440p 60-120hz for the foreseeable future (until 4k 60-120hz is possible without breaking the bank) but considering everything else they've been saying, it comes off as disingenuous.

It also makes you wonder, does he have information that the resolutions on series X might be lower than that on PS5, hence the new messaging?

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

It’s sad that 30fps is still encouraged so we can have better graphics. If 60fps became the default minimum then it’s done, from then on graphics can continue to improve until the end of time.

 

[Bryank75]

Why not both...

 

[JAMMA]

.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

It also makes you wonder, does he have information that the resolutions on series X might be lower than that on PS5, hence the new messaging?

That would be strange, I suspect most games will be 4K this time around, even the X has a decent number of native 4K games so far, with decent frame rates (for a console).

However, we don't know what the apparently different RayTracing hardware will bring to the table on both machines, so that could be pre-emptive damage control.

However often Phil just likes to say things to get attention, so whatever he says is to be taken with a grain of salt, but people study his every words and try to interpret them as if they were bible verses or something.

It’s sad that 30fps is still encouraged so we can have better graphics. If 60fps became the default minimum then it’s done, from then on graphics can continue to improve until the end of time.

I expect most games to run at 60fps on the next gen consoles, but some developers will either not have the capacity or will decide to make the frame rate sacrifice in order to attain higher levels of fidelity (given the hardware that notion seems absurd to me).

Why not both...

Well hardware has its limitations, so on fixed hardware you have a set amount of resources (memory, CPU/GPU compute, bandwidth, etc.) so if you give that fixed machine twice as much time to render frames you will get one or more of the following: better shadows, AA, reflections, etc. at the sacrifice of reactivity.

Not that I think the sacrifice would be worth it on the machines we are rumored to get, but some studios will go down the 30fps path anyway.

 

[Birdo]

Some Pro Counter Strike players play in 720p or even SD to get a higher framerate.

Framerate > Resolution. Always.

 

[Stuart360]

Although it was obvious anyway, but at least we now have a bit of 'proof' that the consoles will be targeting 4k.
I'd prefer 1440p and more eye candy to be honest. As a PC gamer, i can chose what rez and framerate i play at, but i'm limited in graphics quality by the consoles, and 4k is going to make the jump from this gen much smaller than 1440p would of.

 

[Mojoraisin]

He’s right on the money. I’d be inclined to switch from Sony ecosystem if they hold true to this and can probably get 4-5
Friends to follow. As I play mostly multiplayer games it’s the most important aspect. 8k shouldn’t even get mentioned. It’s not even 0.1% of the market that have equipment where it would matter. Ie huge screens rather close and some projectors.

 

[CeeJay]

It also makes you wonder, does he have information that the resolutions on series X might be lower than that on PS5, hence the new messaging?

Or maybe its the opposite and it will have the same visuals as PS5 on multiplats but be able to run in 60 instead of 30 and Phil wants to try and move the discussions towards the differentiator?

 

[Thaedolus]

The difference between 30 and 60 and 100 FPS is instantly recognizable to me. Above 100hz it starts to drop off, but for resolution I feel like it’s a much lower level (like 1440 vs 4K would probably be difficult to distinguish in a real world scenario) but has a bigger impact on performance.

The resolution stuff is prioritizing a dick measuring contest over what makes games feel good to play

 

[Investor9872]

Phil Spencer actually has me agreeing with him on this one. Every PS4 Pro game that I had played for the past 2 years that gave me the option, I always revert back to the higher frame-rate for a better experience. Of course, I want both visually stunning graphic and 60 fps on the PS4 Pro! But that just wasn't possible. In fact, I'm really hoping that this ray-tracing tech next-gen is talking about will not be hampering the frame-rate like the way 4K did on the PS4 Pro.

 

[CeeJay]

I don't have a 4K TV yet (let alone thinking about 8K!) so I am hoping that these new consoles offer me an option to run at 1080p but higher framerate across the board. I know 4K is pretty widespread now but there have got to be a lot of people in the same boat as I am, my 1080p TV is still perfectly fine and there still isn't enough TV content in 4K to make it an essential upgrade. I don't really feel the need for 4K yet and will probably just upgrade when my current TV fails, I want the next gen consoles consider the huge amount of people who are still happy on 1080p as well as those with more pixels.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

60 frames per second hurts my eyes.

 

[JAMMA]

.

 

[Three]

Microsoft have made some things mandatory that are now standard in the industry; a HDD, online connection, party-enabled, I think they had custom sound-tracks but I don't know if you can still do that?

The point is, if Microsoft demand 60fps for every game, Sony will have to follow suit.

How the hell did MS make a HDD mandatory? In fact Sony got a lot of bad press with 'installs' and cost of the device because they were the ones who made it mandatory.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

How the hell did MS make a HDD mandatory? In fact Sony got a lot of bad press with 'installs' and cost of the device because they were the ones who made it mandatory.

Og Xbox was the first console with ana internal hdd. Sony had to follow suit.

L34rn ab0u7 c0n50l35

 

[mejin]

Series X will just be an expensive machine to play One X games, it just makes sense to focus on performance.

 

[Three]

Og Xbox was the first console with ana internal hdd. Sony had to follow suit.

L34rn ab0u7 c0n50l35

And it was what killed the OG xbox and the PS2 phat which came out earlier had a HDD bay. PS2 had an optional HDD and was removed from the slim version then MS went optional HDD with 360 and Sony went built in HDD with PS3. Then they both went built in HDD. Who was following who here?

 

[GHG]

60 frames per second hurts my eyes.

Thankfully we have 120hz and beyond

 

[Slings and Arrows]

And it was what killed the OG xbox and the PS2 phat which came out earlier had a HDD bay. PS2 had an optional HDD and was removed from the slim version then MS went optional HDD with 360 and Sony went built in HDD with PS3. Then they both went built in HDD. Who was following who here?

Og xbox came before ps2 hdd stand.

Microsoft were forward thinking here.

No idea what you're trying toto prove or argue against.

Now try and explain mandatory online, party chat etc?

 

[pr0cs]

I like the opportunity to choose, some games really don't improve with 60fps, the action is not the highlight of the game, they are improved by higher graphical fidelity.
Sounds like they aren't mandating anything which is I suppose to be expected since that was Microsoft stance from the beginning

 

[Birdo]

Lmfao, you’re as nuts as we think.

"we"?

Who are you working with, Neo Member?

 

[grfunkulus]

Anyone playing in SD to get higher framerate is a tool, simply put. You're not a pro gamer because if you were, youd have a rig capable of pushing 300+ fps on CS at 1080p or above (like as a baseline, that's not even hard to achieve on medium to medium high end rigs).

Responsiveness gains above 240fps are a case of extremely diminishing returns. You're almost always served better, even in a competitive setting, by at least bumping up resolution to standard hd once you've passed that threshold.

Get fucking real.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

G grfunkulus dont hide your feelings mate, tell us how you really feel.

 

[WouldYouKindly]

Lol this guy literally talks to hear himself. Just stop I literally cant stand good guy ms. Turn fucking heel already

 

[GameOfPixelsX]

“As we were looking at the future, the feel of the games was definitely something that we wanted to have more focus on, not just throwing more pixels up on the screen.”

This is clearly a marketing bullet that the device will be capable of 8k resolution. You be your ass Sony will do the same. That does not take away from his (rightful) opinion that frame-rate is more important.

 

[GameOfPixelsX]

Microsoft have made some things mandatory that are now standard in the industry; a HDD, online connection, party-enabled, I think they had custom sound-tracks but I don't know if you can still do that?

The point is, if Microsoft demand 60fps for every game, Sony will have to follow suit.

NO they would not! That is a decision that should be left to the designer.

 

[grfunkulus]

The difference between 30 and 60 and 100 FPS is instantly recognizable to me. Above 100hz it starts to drop off, but for resolution I feel like it’s a much lower level (like 1440 vs 4K would probably be difficult to distinguish in a real world scenario) but has a bigger impact on performance.

The resolution stuff is prioritizing a dick measuring contest over what makes games feel good to play

Not always. Sitting a few feet from my 43 inch computer monitor, I can instantly tell 1440p from 4k. It's all about use case (of which, mine is admittedly niche).

A more accurate statement would be between 1800p and 4k it becomes really hard to tell. On a 2080 level card and above, you can still push out some really nice 100fps + framerates around 1800p if you're willing to sacrifice a few graphical settings. Again, for sure, I do agree that past 1440p is dimishing returns for a lot of people.

Most people wont even have a use for over 1440p because A. Their monitor is limited to 1440p B. They sit too far from their TV to notice the difference (or their TV doesnt truly support 120hz and over 1440p).

With a 4k 120hz monitor (of which I'm only aware of two bigger than 27 inches), there are a lot more combinations where both the resolution going above 1440p and the framerate going above 100 could be almost equally important

 

[ClearMind]

So he prefers PS4 Pro over Xbone X?

 

[01011001]

How the hell did MS make a HDD mandatory? In fact Sony got a lot of bad press with 'installs' and cost of the device because they were the ones who made it mandatory.

the HDD in the Xbox was used as a buffer, basically virtual ram,.by many games.
that massively increased the consoles capabilities.

if you play Splinter Cell Chaos Theory for example, and you played something else before it, the game will not allow you to skip the intro cinematic until it installed data onto the HDD that is necessary to run the game. this can take about 30 seconds.

other games do the same, sometimes you can tell like with splinter Cell, sometimes it's better hidden.

So he prefers PS4 Pro over Xbone X?

??? uhm... there are games, Hitman 2 for example, that offer a 60fps mode on One X but not on PS4 pro, simply because the Pro cant handle it.

how does your comment make sense?

 

[Codes 208]

The 4k at 26fps on the X would suggest otherwise.

 

[MoreJRPG]

It’s sad that 30fps is still encouraged so we can have better graphics. If 60fps became the default minimum then it’s done, from then on graphics can continue to improve until the end of time.

30fps is only encouraged by Sony for all their “cinematic” third person experiences.

 

[grfunkulus]

G grfunkulus dont hide your feelings mate, tell us how you really feel.

You're right, let's all do what that one digital foundry video suggested and try and find one of a handful of uber high end Sony HD CRT monitors that weigh 200+ lbs at 24 inches and still cost as much as my Asus 43 inch 4k 120hz. Sure, the motion blur will be less and I guess you might perform a little better at CS but you're still sacrificing on almost everything else. But feel good about yourself because you've found a sliver where old tech can still compete.

Technology marches forward dude. My old pioneer Kuros are still amazing TVs but I'm not such an old curmudgeonly man that I would still sit there, insisting that in overall PQ and impact, they havent been surpassed to this day (and many did, rightfully even, for as many as 8 years after).

Staying stupid shit like you should play in SD in 2020 because you think a few like minded weirdos might agree with your misguided opinion is deluded. Fine I guess, but deluded.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

NO they would not! That is a decision that should be left to the designer.

Designers are lazy and will go the easiest route. At some point we have to set the standard to 60fps or we will never see 120fps.

A higher base franerate is better for vr as well.

 

[ClearMind]

??? uhm... there are games, Hitman 2 for example, that offer a 60fps mode on One X but not on PS4 pro, simply because the Pro cant handle it.

how does your comment make sense?

Because there are a lot of games that run better on the PS4 Pro?

 

[sn0man]

Their marketing has been all about fidelity, 4k and 8k so far.

I don't disagree with him, I'm going to be gaming at 1440p 60-120hz for the foreseeable future (until 4k 60-120hz is possible without breaking the bank) but considering everything else they've been saying, it comes off as disingenuous.

It also makes you wonder, does he have information that the resolutions on series X might be lower than that on PS5, hence the new messaging?

it kind of makes perfect sense if the xsx is going to have crossgen games for a few years. Xsx shoot for~4K 60fps (which would be great) while Xbonex shoot for 30fps at 4K and xbonesad shoot for sub (I dunno, guessing) 1440p 30fps?

 

[MoreJRPG]

So he prefers PS4 Pro over Xbone X?

How does that make any sense whatsoever? The One X blows the “Pro” out of the water

 

[01011001]

Because there are a lot of games that run better on the PS4 Pro?

that's called, having shit developers...
no console is save from that

 

[MoreJRPG]

Because there are a lot of games that run better on the PS4 Pro?

???????

Provide the list because you sound deluded. Non-marketing deal titles obviously like Modern Warfare where the devs mail it in because Sony is writing their publisher a cheque to make it the lead dev platform.

 

[Whitecrow]

How does that make any sense whatsoever? The One X blows the “Pro” out of the water

With better resolution and worse frame pacing, yeah.

But I, for once, wont complain for something Phil said.

 

[JLB]

Echoes with the rumors of 3.2GHz vs 3.5GHz, I'd prefer 300MHz over 1TF.
Make 60FPS mandatory already, someone with balls needs to do it, enough with the realism crap.

100% this. Devs should be forced to provide a 60fps option.

 

[Deleted member 774430]

Hahaha that seems a convenient statement.

Yesterday Xbox was praising "true 4K gaming" cause PS4 Pro has the fake one, now that 8K is still far away it's more convenient to say that frame rate is better cause 120 fps is easier to reach.

 

[DanielsM]

So he prefers PS4 Pro over Xbone X?

Actually high end PC downloading his games from Steam. He still hasn't found the time to fix the broken ass store, I mean its only going on 13 fucking years and they still can't even get a freaking store working on their own OS.

 

[Journey]

**Waits for someone to complain about his comment**

Edit: Already beaten LMAO so predictable!!

Lol this guy literally talks to hear himself. Just stop I literally cant stand good guy ms. Turn fucking heel already