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Xbox 360 could be a trojan horse for digital delivery of game content
- Thread starter bud
- Start date
You could have said the same about CD or DVD Audio vs. mp3s. An album of mp3's is not 700MB of data or 4.5GB either.seanoff said:
Any movie that takes up 30 gigs is completely uncompressed. I don't think anyone has plans to distribute uncompressed video or audio over the internet.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
I hate this whole "big brother" mentality over digital media
ah well was bound to happen tho
ah well was bound to happen tho
Well like DVD-audio or super audio CD, HD DVD/Blu-ray may be overshooting the mark. I mean how many people have 1080p sets? How many people even have tv's with HDCP protected inputs? On most tv sets that exist today HD DVD/Blu-ray would be downgraded to only be standard defintion. Would these people even be able see a big difference of a WMV-HD movie for example? It'll be interesting to see what Apple's approach will be to the online movie distribution market is because they really set the tone for music downloads. You know the iPod movie player and the iTunes Movie store are the next evolution for Apple and are probably not that far away.123rl said:
I've got mixed feelings about this.
On one hand, I was plesantly surprised by steam lately after DLing it onto a new computer (after being PCless for a couple of years) and finding that my long lost CDs for halflife and all the expansions were not even needed anymore since the games were still tied to my steam account. It's nice to be able to play those games w/o finding all the combinations of CD+Keys although it took freaking forever to DL all the games and it was pretty annoying how playing any of the finished games would stop the background DL.
On the other hand XBOX live did me wrong. What kind of crap is it to tie DLs to the box and not the account? Once my XBOX was fried by lightening (also the computer hence the lack of PC for a while) Since I didn't send it in for repair and chose to buy a PO all of my payed DLC was lost. The account transfered over just fine, but MS wouldn't allow the DLC to move over to another XBOX unless sent to an official repair shop. I can't help but wonder if MS will try this crap with Full DL games.
While full downloadable games have some benifits and may have a good future, this whole MS line sounds like a way to take heat off the lack of a better optical drive. I would be more willing to bite if they included a reasonably sized HD but 20gigs isn't going to store a whole lot of games.
On one hand, I was plesantly surprised by steam lately after DLing it onto a new computer (after being PCless for a couple of years) and finding that my long lost CDs for halflife and all the expansions were not even needed anymore since the games were still tied to my steam account. It's nice to be able to play those games w/o finding all the combinations of CD+Keys although it took freaking forever to DL all the games and it was pretty annoying how playing any of the finished games would stop the background DL.
On the other hand XBOX live did me wrong. What kind of crap is it to tie DLs to the box and not the account? Once my XBOX was fried by lightening (also the computer hence the lack of PC for a while) Since I didn't send it in for repair and chose to buy a PO all of my payed DLC was lost. The account transfered over just fine, but MS wouldn't allow the DLC to move over to another XBOX unless sent to an official repair shop. I can't help but wonder if MS will try this crap with Full DL games.
While full downloadable games have some benifits and may have a good future, this whole MS line sounds like a way to take heat off the lack of a better optical drive. I would be more willing to bite if they included a reasonably sized HD but 20gigs isn't going to store a whole lot of games.
and i can tell the difference between an MP3 and a full CD quality recording. and if i'm going to buy HD movies i want them at full definition thanks.
And HDTVs are becoming very common and HDCP compatible connections will become very common very quickly.
Even lossy compression on HD movies will leave very big files. Songs are 4mb for 3mins or thereabouts @ 128kbs. Compressed hd movies will be in the region of Mbs/sec * 100 mins per movie. Still very big files.
So when are we all getting 100Mb internet connections to downlaod all this shit in a reasonable time frame.
And HDTVs are becoming very common and HDCP compatible connections will become very common very quickly.
Even lossy compression on HD movies will leave very big files. Songs are 4mb for 3mins or thereabouts @ 128kbs. Compressed hd movies will be in the region of Mbs/sec * 100 mins per movie. Still very big files.
So when are we all getting 100Mb internet connections to downlaod all this shit in a reasonable time frame.
For small indie developer stuff, or XBL type gaming... sure... for full budget productions? Bill is about a console generation or two ahead IMO... We aren't there yet. Broadband penetration still isn't enough to do a wholly digital content delivery system. Partial say for folks who choose to(offer it digital and in stores) perhaps near the end of this coming generation I could see it.
DCharlie
Banned
Tangent alert :
Current blank media costs (best prices in japan according to kakaku)
23 gig prices :
Sony 2539
Fujifilm 2,013
Maxell 2,213
Mitsubishi 2,149
Panasonic 2,696 / 5,945
TDK 1,999 (23) , 2,498 (25)
25 gig prices (huh?)
TDK 2,498 yen
50 gig prices
Panasonic 5,945 yen
surprised there is only one manufacturer of blank 50 gig media out there. I thought that the media was much more wide spread. TDK with the 23/25 gig split is a little odd, but hey.
One advantage (obviously) that HDDs have over media like this at the moment is the scaling price per Gig.
This is incredibly unfair as Bluray has no mass market penetration yet, but ...
at the moment, you can get an 80 gig drive for 5,980 from Western digital (Kakaku.com).
For 13,780 , you have a nice fat 320Gig Sata Western digital drive (at the unfair comparison present time, you are looking at 37k yen or so to get the same storage from Bluray)
I know Bluray costs will skid as demand drops, but also the cost of hard drive gigage is on an amazing slide (at least here in japan). How long before we see multi-terabyte home HDD recorders for instance?
I'm also wondering - if you have a cell equiped home system which is basically powered towards decoding and recording multiple streams of data - wouldn't you want to be encoding that to fat hard drives first? multiple chanel HD recording is going to burn through 50 gigs pretty damned quickly, could a bluray recorder even handle the multiple streams it would have to handle (even if Cell can)? And then as a content recording manufacturer, if you have a concern about content/copyright etc... isn't it easier to control that content on a locked unit with harddrives rather than a Bluray? Bluray has the obvious advantage of being infintely upgradable, but if flagging copyright tech is de riguer , whats the point of bluray recordable? Don't the content providers have to give up on the flag tech in order for Bluray to be seen as worthwhile?
Obviously from a consumer point of view - a cell based recorder with a hdd to handle the initial encode with BLuray dumping would be the ideal (if flagging is dropped totally)
Annnnyways, sorry - off on a whiskey fueled tangent... carry on.
Current blank media costs (best prices in japan according to kakaku)
23 gig prices :
Sony 2539
Fujifilm 2,013
Maxell 2,213
Mitsubishi 2,149
Panasonic 2,696 / 5,945
TDK 1,999 (23) , 2,498 (25)
25 gig prices (huh?)
TDK 2,498 yen
50 gig prices
Panasonic 5,945 yen
surprised there is only one manufacturer of blank 50 gig media out there. I thought that the media was much more wide spread. TDK with the 23/25 gig split is a little odd, but hey.
One advantage (obviously) that HDDs have over media like this at the moment is the scaling price per Gig.
This is incredibly unfair as Bluray has no mass market penetration yet, but ...
at the moment, you can get an 80 gig drive for 5,980 from Western digital (Kakaku.com).
For 13,780 , you have a nice fat 320Gig Sata Western digital drive (at the unfair comparison present time, you are looking at 37k yen or so to get the same storage from Bluray)
I know Bluray costs will skid as demand drops, but also the cost of hard drive gigage is on an amazing slide (at least here in japan). How long before we see multi-terabyte home HDD recorders for instance?
I'm also wondering - if you have a cell equiped home system which is basically powered towards decoding and recording multiple streams of data - wouldn't you want to be encoding that to fat hard drives first? multiple chanel HD recording is going to burn through 50 gigs pretty damned quickly, could a bluray recorder even handle the multiple streams it would have to handle (even if Cell can)? And then as a content recording manufacturer, if you have a concern about content/copyright etc... isn't it easier to control that content on a locked unit with harddrives rather than a Bluray? Bluray has the obvious advantage of being infintely upgradable, but if flagging copyright tech is de riguer , whats the point of bluray recordable? Don't the content providers have to give up on the flag tech in order for Bluray to be seen as worthwhile?
Obviously from a consumer point of view - a cell based recorder with a hdd to handle the initial encode with BLuray dumping would be the ideal (if flagging is dropped totally)
Annnnyways, sorry - off on a whiskey fueled tangent... carry on.
no thanks, with downloads you can't let your friends borrow your games and you can't sell the game if you don't like it, get bored with it or decide its not worth keeping, I also like boxes & manuals with my games
and this is hardly the same as MP3s because with a game you're essentially buying the whole album instead of just picking out the songs you like
and this is hardly the same as MP3s because with a game you're essentially buying the whole album instead of just picking out the songs you like
Episodic gaming 
Play a game then download extra levels and campaigns....yuck.
As an example I bought Fahrenheit on Monday; finished it this morning. What if I'd have downloaded that and then had to download the last few levels? I'd be well and truly pissed off at having to wait hours for the download to finish, install and then run. I want to play games from beginning to end...not play a few levels, download some more, play them, download some more and so on.
Just give me the game on a disc and leave me alone you fuckers!
Play a game then download extra levels and campaigns....yuck.
As an example I bought Fahrenheit on Monday; finished it this morning. What if I'd have downloaded that and then had to download the last few levels? I'd be well and truly pissed off at having to wait hours for the download to finish, install and then run. I want to play games from beginning to end...not play a few levels, download some more, play them, download some more and so on.
Just give me the game on a disc and leave me alone you fuckers!
open_mouth_
insert_foot_
If Microsoft has their way, the Xbox 360 will be at least neck in neck with the PS3 in most markets and will (eventually) be a big trojan horse for them. These are the following areas they are going to try to exploit for profits (imo):
-Xbox Live Arcade
-Xbox Live Gaming (MMORPGS + Regular games)
-Downloadable Content (Episodic + booster packs + microtransactions)
-Video Phone/Chat (killer app)
-iTunes like Music Service for download to mp3 players or to 360 HD jukebox
-Downloadable TV Shows, Movies, Games
-Tivo service (through add-on hard-drive adapter with cable input) + IPTV?
-Xbox Live Arcade
-Xbox Live Gaming (MMORPGS + Regular games)
-Downloadable Content (Episodic + booster packs + microtransactions)
-Video Phone/Chat (killer app)
-iTunes like Music Service for download to mp3 players or to 360 HD jukebox
-Downloadable TV Shows, Movies, Games
-Tivo service (through add-on hard-drive adapter with cable input) + IPTV?
FortNinety
Member
TranceVibrator said:
Yup, that's pretty much is what everyone is expecting, but the thing is, that will never, EVER happen. There have been a few attempts to give folks in major city free internet, but the major companies make sure the plans even get started.
FortNinety said:
Unlimited != free. He's talking about how in places like Aussieland, ISPs have strict transfer limits. For example, 500KBps downstream, but if you go past 5GB a month you're hit with massive overage fees. Downloading "HD Era" games will be $$$$ for those people.
SuperPac
Member
Pretty soon game publishers are going to have to do something to make back a little of the money that used game sales are taking away from them by leaps and bounds. In the future I would not be surprised to eventually see games come with a license/coupon code or similar so that if you bought it new you can have access to extra online content for free, but if you bought used (or are renting) you have to pay. Maybe that's a few years down the line still but I could see it going that way.
HVD fans am cry
I think he's right about games being distributed digitally. Gamestop now owns EB, and Best Buy may be selling used games soon. Publishers aren't going to have much of a choice. Even Vivendi is selling games like SWAT4 and Tribes Vengeance online after all the bitching they did about Steam.
What bothers me the most about current downloadable offerings is that the distributors tend to charge just as much for the "virtual" copy as the boxed one. This is something that needs to change if they want to successfully compete with the pre-owned market, unless of course they destroy the POed by stopping physical distribution. It would be stupid to do that at this point since there are so few people with online, let alone high-speed access. Selling DL only games w/o a boxed copy would only be available to a fraction of their potential customers.
soundwave05
Member
Problem is this is not going to happen anytime soon.
2010 at the absolute earliest.
The obvious reason why XBox 360 does not support HD discs is because they were hellbent on launching earlier than Sony, and this is one of the downsides to that decision.
So now Bill Gates is just trying to put a PR spin on it by saying disc-media as a whole doesn't matter anymore.
The other issue is a lot of movie studios will not buy into this type of download service -- can you say Disney/Beuna Vista?
2010 at the absolute earliest.
The obvious reason why XBox 360 does not support HD discs is because they were hellbent on launching earlier than Sony, and this is one of the downsides to that decision.
So now Bill Gates is just trying to put a PR spin on it by saying disc-media as a whole doesn't matter anymore.
The other issue is a lot of movie studios will not buy into this type of download service -- can you say Disney/Beuna Vista?
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