I dont think the pure definition of genres apply in games anymore. YOu can certainly call Far Cry an rpg game these days, can you not? Leveling up, crafting, skills, multiple ways of dealing with enemies, multiple ways of doing missions, etc. With your logic I can say Hades is not a rogue-like either. You can certainly not die and reach the final boss and that is it. You can certainly die in any game and not advance anything but then again it really isnt like Deathloop or Returnal or Hades now is it? Because dying in these games is the point. You have to. In roguelite games you have to die in order to get better upgrades and advance the story. In Souls games you don't have to die. You certainly must not.
If i understood right, even when you die you collect info that you are gonna use in the next run, and not something abstract that you have to remember, but colt saying stuff or clues floating in the air or a recap of the villains movements on your personal board that you can check when you change zone/hour.Depends entirely on the game sure. Does not have to be a pure roguelike, and Deathloop certainly isnt, however they can adopt roguelike/lite mechanics. Dying and restaring wihtout reaching the point of "upgrade" is certainly in the rogue subcategory and in Deathloop as I saw in a video you can certainly get nowhere and keep dying without advancing the "puzzle" or story. Would that not be considered a game with rogue mechanics? In Twelve Minutes you advance the story no matter what. It's a different matter.
Same rule applies as far as I'm concerned, Far Cry is not an RPG, it has "RPG elements" in the same way you're arguing Deathloop has "roguelike elements", except for me the first is way more true - but that's mostly because "RPG elements in a non-RPG" is such a prominent example throughout gaming history. In this case? IMO it's a stretch.
And no, the point I was making with Twelve Minutes was that you can fail to advance the story, not that doing so is intrinsically tied to the roguelike genre. Of course you can get stuck on (nearly) any game and fail to advance it.
Heading out now but let's just say it's a grey area, I personally just wouldn't say from what I've seen that Deathloop shares enough DNA with Rogue to call it a roguelite, but your mileage may vary.
If i understood right, even when you die you collect info that you are gonna use in the next run, and not something abstract that you have to remember, but colt saying stuff or clues floating in the air or a recap of the villains movements on your personal board that you can check when you change zone/hour.
And you gain stuff in every run, from unlocking new weapons to upgrading abilities etc.
Devs said that enemies are dumb on purpose because they are not the major challenge in the game, solving the puzzle is.
Getting blocked and not advancing the story sound kinda similar to any game with hard sections or bosses, i was blocked for hours repeating the same thing in many games, but it doesn't make them any more roguelite than they are.
I don't know, for me me a game where combat is not the main core can't be called roguelite, for me it's more of a immersive sims mixed with hitman with a mix.
I would never describe this game as a roguelite to a friend who search for a classic roguelite, and when you have to lose 10 min explaining how is it different from a roguelite, can you really still call it a roguelite?!
Yeah i didn't liked that thing myself, but the devs said that the real challenge of the game is the puzzle, even the combat is not that hard because enemies are dumb AF.I'll have to play it and see for myself but I was certain based on the videos I saw, granted not many, that it was a roguelite immerssive sim or basically a dishonored game with roguelite mechanics. Hell until recently I didnt even know you could not get rid of enemies silently and non-lethally so the more I learn about the game the less Im interested. Bodies vanishing automatically? Ugh. Just kinda ruins the mood of playing stealthy.
Because a lot of people hate roguelikes and they would rather deal with pissed off people asking for refunds than being honest.Returnal
Deathloop
One $70 game, another $60. Both Roguelikes.
We know Sony understood that they messed up by not making it clear that Returnal was a Roguelike in the marketing via a survey they sent out, but what about Bethesda?
Deathloop releases tomorrow and we're just now learning from reviews that the game is a Roguelike. Hell one review says it takes more than an hour of gameplay to get any powers, which you can then lose by resetting the game.
Why are companies afraid to make this clear before release? Do they want to wow the casuals with flashy trailers and trick them into paying $70/$60 for a Roguelike?
Were studios blinded by the success of indie Roguelikes in the previous gen to the point of hubris that they thought they could get away with AAA pricing for one?
Smart-arse lol.I would of thought the clue would of been in the games name, 'Death loop'.
Yup, I had to look it up the first time I heard the term. And I’ve been into video games for years.I never even knew what a rogue like was until Returnal was announced. Just saying a game is a rogue like isn’t likely going to mean anything to most people.
I don't think the general public even knows, or frankly even cares about it being a Roguelike. They don't have the thinking of "oh it's randomized, these enviro's aren't hand made, should be cheaper" that hardcore gamers have. They think it looks cool, they buy it. When they play it, they don't wonder "WTF is this, randomized environments..." They kinda just accept it and if it's fun, if they like it, it was worth it.
It's not randomized.Serious question, haven't read any reviews, is Deathloop actually randomized or do you just keep playing through the same environment trying to get further?
It's not randomized.
FTFYDeathloop releases tomorrow and I’m just now learning from reviews that the game is a Roguelike.
Exactly, everything need to work like a clock to being solved as a gigantic puzzle.That was my suspicion, doesn't seem like a type of game that would work with randomization.
For one. None of that games is roguelike. They are at best roguelites.Returnal
Deathloop
One $70 game, another $60. Both Roguelikes.
We know Sony understood that they messed up by not making it clear that Returnal was a Roguelike in the marketing via a survey they sent out, but what about Bethesda?
Deathloop releases tomorrow and we're just now learning from reviews that the game is a Roguelike. Hell one review says it takes more than an hour of gameplay to get any powers, which you can then lose by resetting the game.
Why are companies afraid to make this clear before release? Do they want to wow the casuals with flashy trailers and trick them into paying $70/$60 for a Roguelike?
Were studios blinded by the success of indie Roguelikes in the previous gen to the point of hubris that they thought they could get away with AAA pricing for one?
What a boring mindset for gaming.Yeah these try hard games are not for me. Games are just playable movies that I play for fun wasting some time. Don't get a sense of achievement from beating them.
But there's obviously a market, see From Software.
From what I've gathered, it's not randomized. Every enemy will be in the same spot as previous, as far as I know. I believe the "gimmick" of the game is to experiment in different ways of getting through the level, by using different mixes of abilities, routes, and attack styles. The reviews seem to enjoy the "loop" of the game. I picked it up as a "good job" to Arkane... but, also a farewell! Thanks for all the hard work, have fun at team Xbox!Serious question, haven't read any reviews, is Deathloop actually randomized or do you just keep playing through the same environment trying to get further?
This! Deathloop is not even roguelite.Does zoomers even know the roguelike term?