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Why do certain games not allow for pre-orders on digital storefronts?

Hostile_18

Banned
What is the criteria for been allowed to have a pre order entry in a platform holders store? Is there a developer cost for this?

If you were creating a game or even more importantly financing a game release you'd think it absolutely essential a game is available to pre-order to secure those not insubstantial extra sales.

The benefits;
+ Increased awareness your game is coming out.
+ Secure customer money in advance.
+ Sales before any possible negative critical reception.
+ Free advertising... customers can see your trailers/screenshots, which surely has a higher attach rate than traditional advertising.
+ Good opportunity to up sell the SKU to a deluxe/ultimate edition.
+ Won't get lost in the days/weeks new releases straight away.

So with all those positives why do many games not do this? It would seem to me like it should be a standard business practice, yet for many games it is not. Perhaps it's a UK/EU store issue but I suspect its worldwide. Traditional retailers like Amazon dont' seem to wait around, and they cover a far larger range of up and coming releases.

It would be great to know 90% of the games coming out in the next year just at a glance on the console of your choice without having to consult with a third party. Plus the more casual a gamer is the less likely they are going to be in the know about big releases that aren't on the store in advance.

Would be interesting if anyone in the industry has insight on this. It seems like it would be in everyone's (businesses and consumers) interest.
 
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MetalRain

Member
As a consumer there are at least two reasons:

There are only handful of games I would consider pre-orderering. It's about risk management, I don't know if developer/publisher still exists when game is supposed to launch like August 2020, but I'm willing to take some risk with game series I love or developers that I know have delivered in the past.

My attention and currently available money is limited and there are many games releasing every day. For example Steam doesn't show/promote all upcoming releases, only "big ones" and games releasing very soon. There are 2 + 8 + 16 slots for games in page like https://store.steampowered.com/explore/upcoming/ it might be about mitigating analysis paralysis, we consumers tend to hesitate making purchase decisions if there are too many viable options to choose from.
 

element

Member
Stores typically have concerns over charge backs if a game is cancelled or delayed.

Pre-order revenue is treated just like a game sale, and cleared as a payout based on the sale. It isn't held until the game is out.

If a game were to be cancelled and Steam/Xbox/Sony already paid out for those pre-orders, it becomes an accounting nightmare. And in the most insane scenario, the platform holder could be the one to pay out the charge backs / refunds.

Imagine an indie dev takes 6 months of pre-orders. Money is paid out to the developer. Developer spends pre-order revenue to help try to finish the game. Game gets cancelled and developer closes. The money is gone. Steam/Xbox/Sony has to pay out the charge backs / refunds since there is no company left to bill.

Big companies can get away with this, because they aren't going any place.
 
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Hostile_18

Banned
Stores typically have concerns over charge backs if a game is cancelled or delayed.

Pre-order revenue is treated just like a game sale, and cleared as a payout based on the sale. It isn't held until the game is out.

If a game were to be cancelled and Steam/Xbox/Sony already paid out for those pre-orders, it becomes an accounting nightmare. And in the most insane scenario, the platform holder could be the one to pay out the charge backs / refunds.

Imagine an indie dev takes 6 months of pre-orders. Money is paid out to the developer. Developer spends pre-order revenue to help try to finish the game. Game gets cancelled and developer closes. The money is gone. Steam/Xbox/Sony has to pay out the charge backs / refunds since there is no company left to bill.

Big companies can get away with this, because they aren't going any place.

Are you sure pre order money is paid out in advance? I was pretty sure platform holders pay it when the game actually releases. I know in the past when a game has been delayed multiple times I.e South Park: The Fractured but Whole Sony refunded users automatically.

Also would it not be biased of a platform holder to pick and choose publishers/games they support. The extra revenue from millions more digital game sale is surely would mitigate any extra risk? Why do traditional retailers not have this risk problem, when you can pre purchase nearly every big game coming up with them? Surely they are less robust than a platform holder. Like I can understand not every indie game been on there but where is Marvel's Avengers, Nioh 2, Vampire: The Masquerade? Wheres the Baldurs Gate collection that's out tomorrow? Even first party games like Days Gone in the UK waited a really long time before they got their game up for pre order (like less than 2 months before release). Ghost Of Tsushima is still no where to be seen, surely a first party big profile title has very little risk for Sony in terms of confidence of release.
 
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Miles708

Member
This is an honest question, not trying to be sarcastic or anything: what's the advantage of pre-ordering a digital thing?
 
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Woo-Fu

Banned
This is an honest question, not trying to be sarcastic or anything: what's the advantage of pre-ordering a digital thing?
Pre-load window is the only real advantage in most cases. If it is a giant multiplayer game that I really want to play day one so I'm not permanently behind the curve I'll pre-order just to get it pre-loaded.
 
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I've never really understood the point of a digital pre-order except in situations where the game is releasing in 48 hours or less and a pre-load is offered. The point of a pre-order is to "secure" a copy in advance and not face being told that a title is sold out. This makes some sense in the case of a physical sale ( though not much as only very niche titles have a tendency to sell out) but digital copies of a game are pretty much unlimited, the worst case scenario would require producing more keys for the digital storefront.

Many console storefronts don't offer refunds, so if you suddenly feel you need that money back, or learned the game is garbage, you can't cancel the order easily like you can from Amazon or Gamestop. The only real benefit of a digital pre-order is pre-loading, IMO.
 
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Hostile_18

Banned
Yeah pre-loading and usually theres some digital goods available for pre-ordering only. Sometimes a special pre-order price as well for PS Plus members.

From my perspective I just like to see at a glance on my console what is coming out. I suppose if you struggle managing money it's good to pre order and pay on better months without much to pay out.
 
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ROMhack

Member
This is an honest question, not trying to be sarcastic or anything: what's the advantage of pre-ordering a digital thing?

As said above, sometimes there's some digital goodies. I also think people do it when they have money and want to spend it.

I've never pre-ordered anything digitally myself.
 

Miles708

Member
Pre-load window is the only real advantage in most cases. If it is a giant multiplayer game that I really want to play day one so I'm not permanently behind the curve I'll pre-order just to get it pre-loaded.

Pre-loading makes sense with the balooning games size, but pre-ordering for this seems a little overkill just for that.
I wonder if a solution could be to make pre-loading available for everyone (to make it easier to download these gigantic files) and then downloading the activation key only after paying. Maybe it's even more difficult for publishers, but again, the current solution is equally overkill for me.

As said above, sometimes there's some digital goodies. I also think people do it when they have money and want to spend it.

I've never pre-ordered anything digitally myself.

Yes, pre-order bonuses make sense too. These are curious, because if they are very meaningful, they risk to fragment the player base even before the game is out. It exacerbates the issue pre-loading tries to solve.
 
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Hostile_18

Banned
Still no closer to finding out why publishers don't put all their AA/AAA games on platform holders storefronts, why certain ones remain missing until release day. Looking at the ones that are available to pre-order there doesn't seem to be any kind of connection between them (plenty of Indy representation there).

I wonder if your actually not allowed to disclose the criteria that makes you eligible to have a pre order entry, as as I mentioned in the OP theres every reason under the sun for them to want to do so.
 
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Miles708

Member
Still no closer to finding out why publishers don't put all their AA/AAA games on platform holders storefronts, why certain ones remain missing until release day. Looking at the ones that are available to pre-order there doesn't seem to be any kind of connection between them (plenty of Indy representation there).

I wonder if your actually not allowed to disclose the criteria that makes you eligible to have a pre order entry, as as I mentioned in the OP theres every reason under the sun for them to want to do so.

Would be interesting to see how much digital pre-orders actually work.
I'm no marketing expert but maybe the fear is to have a double-edged sword, and diluite the marketing push of a clear day 1 release date.
 
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Hostile_18

Banned
Would be interesting to see how much digital pre-orders actually work.
I'm no marketing expert but maybe the fear is to have a double-edged sword, and diluite the marketing push of a clear day 1 release date.

Yeah that's a possibility but in terms of the e stores all your going to miss is the shock value of it appearing out of no where day 1... and your relying on all your potential customers going online and looking that week. The process of been lost (moving down the list of released games) straight away is still going to be the same only your missing all the benefits I listed about having a pre order entry. It's very curious situation :)

Edit: pure speculation but could it be an increased cut/or one off payment for the platform holder in exchange for a pre order entry (marketing support). Kind of like a publisher paying to have a stand in a physical retail store? It might explain why certain MASSIVE games are missing.
 
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Do publishers perhaps have to pay an additional fee to platform holders for digital pre-orders? It does require the platform holder to issue licenses ahead of launch. shrug
 
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I mean, I am pretty sure, like fairly certain, that Obra Dinn is going to be good, if not very good, so I am confident in my decision on preordering it.

Except its not available yet, but still.
 

Hostile_18

Banned
Do publishers perhaps have to pay an additional fee to platform holders for digitalbnb pre-orders? It does require the platform holder to issue licenses ahead of launch. shrug

That's what I'm thinking. If it's true I wonder what would bring in more money partnering with only select publishers or opening up the flood gates to all and benefiting from increased unit sales of everything.

You would think the latter would be better for everyone and the former an older way of thinking/doing business.

For X Box/Switch users are many pre-order games "missing"? I mainly use the PSN so wouldn't know.
 

Mithos

Member
Pre-load window is the only real advantage in most cases. If it is a giant multiplayer game that I really want to play day one so I'm not permanently behind the curve I'll pre-order just to get it pre-loaded.
INDEED!
I started to downloading Destiny 2 on PS4 on September 30th, and it didn't finish until October 2nd.
So yeah being able/allowed to pre-load would possibly be a reason to pre-order...
But as someone said, we should be allowed to pre-download updates/patches anyway at anytime, even if we do not yet own the "base game", because even with a disc based game there could take days to download a 50+GB day1 patch for some of us.
 
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Hostile_18

Banned
At one point you could actually download games without paying for them (a padlock would appear on the tile icon).

I think one of the early ps4 planned features was the console would download games you were likely to buy in advance... I don't think came to pass due to data cap limitations.

Technically there are no patches on a first install as the copy you download is always the latest patched version of the game.
 

Virex

Banned
This is an honest question, not trying to be sarcastic or anything: what's the advantage of pre-ordering a digital thing?
But...I...I...I..need that pre-order item that's going to be useless after 10 minutes because I'll find a stronger weapons, armour etc.
 

Hostile_18

Banned
More thoughts that everything is monetized Concrete Genie (first party) actually did have a pre-order slot but not a single screen shot or trailer on its page. If it wasnt a decision made on money I'd fire who ever my publisher was lol.
 

brian0057

Banned
I wouldn't know since I never pre-order anything.
They are just a step below loot boxes and Communism on the scale of public derision.
 

Hostile_18

Banned
I wouldn't know since I never pre-order anything.
They are just a step below loot boxes and Communism on the scale of public derision.

Fair enough, do you ever just browse the store though just to see what's coming up or what the graphics look like etc. I find it adds value that way.

Mind must admit I have two games pre ordered Cyberpunk and Last of Us 2. Both developers I trust 100% and if they did let me down it's not the end of the world financially. Just means I had the spare money before christmas and I can pay for and forget about them now until release.
 

brian0057

Banned
Fair enough, do you ever just browse the store though just to see what's coming up or what the graphics look like etc. I find it adds value that way.

Mind must admit I have two games pre ordered Cyberpunk and Last of Us 2. Both developers I trust 100% and if they did let me down it's not the end of the world financially. Just means I had the spare money before christmas and I can pay for and forget about them now until release.
Oh, I do. Barring spoilers and story elements, I want to know everything I can before I purchase anything.
That being said, I never feel the need to put money down on a product before it releases, regardless of the name attached to the developer.
System Shock 3 is my most anticipated game at the moment (unless Ubisoft announces a new Splinter Cell) and even then I still wouldn't pre-order the game.
I'm of the mindset that no company, no matter how successful or friendly they seem to be deserve that level of trust.
Not even Nintendo, my favorite company and a developer who consistently makes great games, gets my money for anything before it releases.

So I usually wait for about a month after a game is released. By the time I buy the game, I know if the game is stable in terms of performance, hopefully bugs are patched, and I get feedback from people I know and trust their judgement.

TL;DR:
I buy my games usually after a month of release.
Never pre-order, regardless of the developer involved.
Not even for good developers or titles I'm excited for.
 

element

Member
Are you sure pre order money is paid out in advance? I was pretty sure platform holders pay it when the game actually releases. I know in the past when a game has been delayed multiple times I.e South Park: The Fractured but Whole Sony refunded users automatically.
Depends on the platform and how it is released. Steam and Early Access has caused some major issues with games "releasing" and then disappearing.

No store wants to cover the business failures of a 3rd party.

Also would it not be biased of a platform holder to pick and choose publishers/games they support. The extra revenue from millions more digital game sale is surely would mitigate any extra risk? Why do traditional retailers not have this risk problem, when you can pre purchase nearly every big game coming up with them? Surely they are less robust than a platform holder. Like I can understand not every indie game been on there but where is Marvel's Avengers, Nioh 2, Vampire: The Masquerade? Wheres the Baldurs Gate collection that's out tomorrow? Even first party games like Days Gone in the UK waited a really long time before they got their game up for pre order (like less than 2 months before release). Ghost Of Tsushima is still no where to be seen, surely a first party big profile title has very little risk for Sony in terms of confidence of release.
Without going into too much detail. Each store manages things differently and even regionally. Some are more open and some are extremely risk adverse. Sometime it is just having too many games available for pre-order that prevents even large scale titles from getting a spot. Having no official date does not help. Also if there is no real incentive to pre-order (special editions, etc, etc), it doesn't really benefit the store to have a game in pre-order for months and months on a digital store.

In the end, it can feel totally random as a developer which games get pre-order placement.
 

Hostile_18

Banned
Depends on the platform and how it is released. Steam and Early Access has caused some major issues with games "releasing" and then disappearing.

No store wants to cover the business failures of a 3rd party.

Without going into too much detail. Each store manages things differently and even regionally. Some are more open and some are extremely risk adverse. Sometime it is just having too many games available for pre-order that prevents even large scale titles from getting a spot. Having no official date does not help. Also if there is no real incentive to pre-order (special editions, etc, etc), it doesn't really benefit the store to have a game in pre-order for months and months on a digital store.

In the end, it can feel totally random as a developer which games get pre-order placement.

Thank you for the information, very interesting.

I do hope next gen we can get to a place where most upcoming games can be listed in advance, even if they have to change the platform holders policies. I genuinely think that it will be better for nearly everyone involved. :)
 

element

Member
I do hope next gen we can get to a place where most upcoming games can be listed in advance, even if they have to change the platform holders policies. I genuinely think that it will be better for nearly everyone involved. :)
More stores should look at what Valve has done allowing store pages to go up without having the ability to pre-order. Fans can favorite/bookmark the game and will get a notification when it can be pre-ordered or purchased. That would at least help titles get the visibility of being on a platform coming soon and make them searchable for those interested.

Honestly pre-ordering a digital title months and months before release is kinda silly. There's honestly is no incentive for any party. Pre-order historically were used by physical stores to get a solid count on what their initial stock would be because no one wanted to have too much or little inventory. When you start getting into special editions with physical goods, those were to get a count on manufacturing of those additional goods.

With digital, it is just that, digital. I can see a 7 or 14 day pre-order window to allow pre-loading. But there really aren't any great benefits to pre-order a digital game 6 months before it comes out.
 
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Hostile_18

Banned
More stores should look at what Valve has done allowing store pages to go up without having the ability to pre-order. Fans can favorite/bookmark the game and will get a notification when it can be pre-ordered or purchased. That would at least help titles get the visibility of being on a platform coming soon and make them searchable for those interested.

Honestly pre-ordering a digital title months and months before release is kinda silly. There's honestly is no incentive for any party. Pre-order historically were used by physical stores to get a solid count on what their initial stock would be because no one wanted to have too much or little inventory. When you start getting into special editions with physical goods, those were to get a count on manufacturing of those additional goods.

With digital, it is just that, digital. I can see a 7 or 14 day pre-order window to allow pre-loading. But there really aren't any great benefits to pre-order a digital game 6 months before it comes out.

I'd love it if they did it like Valve do, allowing store pages. That's the main thing I want here is just to see what's coming up at a glance and for equal awareness for titles, so it's fair on all developers and a bonus for consumers.
 

Hostile_18

Banned
as a customer you should not Ask for this.

I'm a big boy and just because I see a pre order button doesn't mean I'll click it ;)... that been said I dont begrudge a person who does. If they get burnt they will live and learn, those who want to be wiser with their money can still wait on reviews etc. Most other games stores seem to handle pre orders for all games just fine (whether they charge or not).

As industry tactics go with things like loot boxes, in game monetization, over the top SJW policies, grinding, repetition, rising prices, deluxe editions in games today etc I honestly think having a pre order button isn't bad at all in comparison.
 
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